944 spring plates

[SilverBullet]

Can I use 944 spring plates with 944 turbo torsion bars? What are the brushings involved? Thanks, I broke the uniball setup twice, so I'm going to use the torsion bar! I'm using the alu trailing arms. Thanks. Cheers, Happy Holidays!

[Wally]

Can I use 944 spring plates with 944 turbo torsion bars?

All torsion bars from 924-944-968 are the same length and spline, so: yes.

What are the brushings involved?

?? Brushings?
I just know the inner vulcanised 944 rubber bushing needs to be burnt off and replaced with a beetle bushing.

Thanks, I broke the uniball setup twice, so I'm going to use the torsion bar!

DO tell what parts you exactly used and what happened! Pics would be great too pls.

[SilverBullet]

Thanks Wally for the info, the member coneecting the uniball and the plate broke, I'm still not sure why, it has ruptured at the same place twice, but on the left side its still ok from day one! would going over a pot hole do this damage? I'll get the pics soon.

[jmd]

I am using 944 alu arms, 944 springplates and torsion bars. I am using a polyeuro beetle inner bushing and a deralin 944 outers.

Bushing removal:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39310356@N07/3624108544/in/set-72157619575747670/

before / after:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39310356@N07/3623290873/in/set-72157619575747670/

Inner Bushing:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39310356@N07/3623292775/in/set-72157619575747670/

inner / outer bushing:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39310356@N07/3624116594/in/set-72157619575747670/

torsion bar compare with orange as original vw:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39310356@N07/3624110678/in/set-72157619575747670/

944 spring plate cover with extra stuff cutoff and bushing in place:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39310356@N07/3810156732/in/set-72157619575747670/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39310356@N07/3809342885/in/set-72157619575747670/

hope that helps.
jmd

[SilverBullet]

Thanks Jmd, great info! Now to finish the job.
Cheers.

[evilC]

Thanks Wally for the info, the member coneecting the uniball and the plate broke, I'm still not sure why, it has ruptured at the same place twice, but on the left side its still ok from day one! would going over a pot hole do this damage? I'll get the pics soon.

I presume you mean where the rod end connects to the spring plate? If so, is the uniball binding so that as the spring plate twists the uniball goes solid and then the only thing to give is the connection?

Clive

[Steve C]

Hi

The last set of 944 spring plates I did, I only took off the inner rubber bushings so that I could fit the VW ones, I kept the stock rubber outers and used a cut down 944 retainers.

I've burnt the rubber off in the past, it doesn't feel right heating suspension parts so this time I sliced as much off as I could with a hacksaw and did the rest with a wire buffing wheel on a bench grinder, very messy.

Steve

[Wally]

Hi

The last set of 944 spring plates I did, I only took off the inner rubber bushings so that I could fit the VW ones, I kept the stock rubber outers and used a cut down 944 retainers.

Thats exactly what I did and have driven with these last 10 years. I now want to make the suspension more direct and precise.


I've burnt the rubber off in the past, it doesn't feel right heating suspension parts so this time I sliced as much off as I could with a hacksaw and did the rest with a wire buffing wheel on a bench grinder, very messy.

Steve
Actually, that is also exactly what I have done now for removal of the outer rubber bushing ;)

Funny..

[SilverBullet]

Is it possible to use early 911 torsion covers?

[Wally]

I thought so, but never used them myself. There is a very good german beetle tuning book on handling ('Bodengruppentherapie') that mentions them though.

[SilverBullet]

here it is. the broken pieces.

[JIMP]

Hello Silverbullet

are those the mBT units if I see cerrectly? Didn't they gave you any solve on this problem or at least an explaination of why is this happenning?

Friendly

Dimitrios

[Wally]

Holy cow!! :shocked:
Only now I understand what you meant. Thanks!!

That bolt is only supposed to have a longitudinal force running through it. My only thoughts are that the bolt must have binded somehow, maybe in the torsion house cover plate at the heim joint/uniball or running out of suspension travel and the spring-plate substitute hit the shock tower? Bit like what Clive was saying I guess..

[evilC]

Having looked at the pictures is the uniball binding up on the housing as the spring plate twists? The housing looks a bit restrictive and if it has been shimmed with washers that are reducing the rotation of the housing.

Clive

[SilverBullet]

Sorry for the late reply, I was in Amsterdam, cold! back here in Singapore!
I'm not to sure why the failure, will ask Uwe from MBT about it. The funny thing is that it only happened on the right hand side, the left is still fine from day 1!. Well I got all the stuff to mount the 944 torsion bars and springplates. So, but still still will get to the bottom of the bottom!:)

[SilverBullet]

was the inner vw bushing loose when you installed it? Any other issues when installing the 944 setup? Thanks.

[SilverBullet]

Wally, JMD, what shocks are you using at the rear with the 944 setup?
Thanks.

[-Alex-]

I did the same too, little heat and grinder with wire wheel. Actually fire didnt help wery much, so i teared the rest of rubber with knife and pliers, then tried wire wheel, worked great.

Next step is to send the plates and hardware to electric zink plating.

[evilC]

I always burn out the old bushes as it usually means less hard work and less of a danger of cutting into the housing when using a hacksaw. I've now got lazy and light the Bar-B-Q and drop the whole arm on (Yum Yum) to burn the bushes out.

[-Alex-]

Actually big heavy wirewheel worked wery well with angle grinder.

[Wally]

Wally, JMD, what shocks are you using at the rear with the 944 setup?
Thanks.

I still use the Bilstein gas shocks for VW IRS I bought 20 years ago. They have worked on my typ 3's (squarebacks) and 1303 bugs on all the cars I drove since...
They work very well, but I always feel they should have been a little bit shorter as I fear bottoming them out. My (shortenend) bump stops have always prevented this I think, but would have liked a little more travel out of them so I cold shorten the bump stops an inch more..

Oh, I did of course bore out the bottom 12mm mount for the porsche's 14mm bolts. A dedicated (porsche) shock with 14mm from the start would be better of course.

[evilC]

I still use the Bilstein gas shocks for VW IRS I bought 20 years ago. They have worked on my typ 3's (squarebacks) and 1303 bugs on all the cars I drove since...
They work very well, but I always feel they should have been a little bit shorter as I fear bottoming them out. My (shortenend) bump stops have always prevented this I think, but would have liked a little more travel out of them so I cold shorten the bump stops an inch more..

Oh, I did of course bore out the bottom 12mm mount for the porsche's 14mm bolts. A dedicated (porsche) shock with 14mm from the start would be better of course.

Hi Wally, aren't your dampers passed their best by now? I know Bilys are durable but 20 years is a long time - unless of course they are rebuildable?

I also bored out the bush for the 14mm Porsche bolt on the Spax dampers we fitted, but it occurred to me that a standard 14mm steel bush pressed in to the 12mm rubber might also work giving a greater preload to the bush i.e. making it stiffer as well as giving a better crush resistance compared to a bored out steel bush?

Clive

[Wally]

Hi Wally, aren't your dampers passed their best by now? I know Bilys are durable but 20 years is a long time - unless of course they are rebuildable?

Yeah, I hear you. I have been holding that of for a good solution for now and I can't invest all at once either ;)

I also bored out the bush for the 14mm Porsche bolt on the Spax dampers we fitted, but it occurred to me that a standard 14mm steel bush pressed in to the 12mm rubber might also work giving a greater preload to the bush i.e. making it stiffer as well as giving a better crush resistance compared to a bored out steel bush?

Clive
Thats a real good idea. Never thought that was possible tho. I have also seen nice heim-like joints (unibolts?) for the bottom bolt, which would mean getting rid of the rubber all at once. Not sure if they will fit any lower shock eye.

[evilC]

....... I have also seen nice heim-like joints (unibolts?) for the bottom bolt, which would mean getting rid of the rubber all at once. Not sure if they will fit any lower shock eye.

You mean spherical bearings? In principle I don't see why they wouldn't fit however, there are several considerations:

1) The bottom ring is usually concave in section i.e. bell'd. The bearing would have to be pressed in.

2) The ring size would have to be between 34 - 41.2mm dia depending on the selected bearing - teflon lined would be preferred.

3) The race would have to be staked in and a good press fit to stop the race spinning

The minimum race size of 34mm sounds too large for the normal bottom eye ring? The best option would be to include a sleeve as well to the outside of the bearing so that the whole lot could be accurately machined but I don't think the spec is available.

Having said all of that Ricola's Pro-tech dampers look like an affordable proposition especially as they are made to order with I assume the potential of different eye bolt diameters. It's time to pension Billy off.;)

Clive

[Wally]

Yeah, sferical bearings.
and I agree on the last bit ;)

[jmd]

clive you want to get involved in a group buy from protech? I am stateside and am pondering the costs of shipping... anyone else? we can all get into a new setup?!

I am still sourcing this solution and have recently stumbled into a problem. I can't seem to find the pitch for the 14mm bolt in the 944 trailing arm. Anyone know?

[evilC]

clive you want to get involved in a group buy from protech? I am stateside and am pondering the costs of shipping... anyone else? we can all get into a new setup?!

I am still sourcing this solution and have recently stumbled into a problem. I can't seem to find the pitch for the 14mm bolt in the 944 trailing arm. Anyone know?

Hi having got the spec that I wanted with a brand new set of Spax on the rear as well as a pair of 23.5mm TBs I couldn't justify the expense, although thanks for the consideration.

Aren't they M14x1.5? You can check with a standard wheel bolt (if its long enough)

Clive