E-Brake cable issue (944 Alum arms)

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Looking for a little clarification on which e-brake/parking brake cables to use on my set up.

Car is a 1303, with IRS, and late 944 alum arms (wide).

I was in the middle of rebuilding arms, and putting on my new brake shoes and swan piece, when I realized I either bought/received the wrong beetle parking brake cable, and I am a little unclear.

The alum arms have a small bracket, which the 944 e-brake sleeve fits into. When I looked at the beetle cable sleeve it has no provision for using this bracket, and it does not have the correct eyelet to mate to the swan.

So my question is do you do a hybrid of 944/beetle parts, or do you use beetle or 944 cable and sleeve.

I plan on using the beetle hand brake so what is needed to mate my e-brake handle to the swans?

Is it particular year superbeetle cable?

Any pics appreciated, as this would be most helpful. Will post pics once I straighten this mess out.

VR
ALex

[Steve C]

Hi

You can buy swans from Lanner that will hock up to bug cables.

Steve

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Steve,

I actually have the swans from Lanner.. So initially I thought I was good.

It seems that my issue lies in the bug e-cable.. I will assume that they are different from year to year? As the ones I have, the end does not mate in the same fashion as the 944 cable.

Additionally, it has no provision for staying put, on the arm like the 944 one.

If this is not clear, I will take pics as it is difficult to explain..

VR
Alex

[jmd]

Alex,
can you post some photos of your setup?
I too have the swans from lanner and am about to finish the final assembly of my arms...
Here are the shots of my brake parts, but you've seen this already. However, some may have not.
944T ebrake guts (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39310356@N07/3623296343/in/set-72157619575747670/)

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Jmd,

When I get home tonight from work I will post,

On a side note, your arms are quite clean, almost look polished, was something special done to them, or did you polish them..

VR
ALex

[Xellex]

Alex, this is what the stock beetle cable looks like, connected to the swans from Lanner: Sorry I don't have a better pic.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii25/xellex_anonim/2008-10-25%20Am%20terminat%20frana%20de%20mana/th_DSCF0026.jpg~original (http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/ii25/xellex_anonim/2008-10-25%20Am%20terminat%20frana%20de%20mana/?action=view&current=DSCF0026.jpg)
You probably ordered a wrong pair of cables, but by my knowledge, all beetle parking brake cables are the same, at that end, so it's a bit strange.
Oh, and do you have those 2 little tube-like pieces from Lanner too? Depending on your alu arms, you might need them, to fit the cable into that bracket.

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Xellex,


Ok mystery number 1, is solved. This is what I get for doing this at 10pm at night after a long day..

The cable end I have is correct, so thanks for the pic as this cleared things up..

Now for part 2, the little tube like pieces, did not get them.. I thought I did not need them with the alum arms. Can you take a shot of the tubes, as this may clear up my problem.

I have some pics as promised so here goes:

1) Picture of my 87+ arms
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC09107.jpg~original

2) Swan and beetle end.. Your pic cleared things up..
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC09104.jpg~original

3) This is the beetle cable and 944 arm, and where I am having an issue as far as how the beetle tube should stay firmly against the bracket
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC09105.jpg~original

4) The 944 brake cable tube, has this lip that ensure a tight fit and no slippage, and what I feel I am missing for my set up.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC09106.jpg~original

It seems like I may need to call or email Lanner? Thoughts?
Alex

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Xellex,


Ok mystery number 1, is solved. This is what I get for doing this at 10pm at night after a long day..

The cable end I have is correct, so thanks for the pic as this cleared things up..

Now for part 2, the little tube like pieces, did not get them.. I thought I did not need them with the alum arms. Can you take a shot of the tubes, as this may clear up my problem.

I have some pics as promised so here goes:

1) Picture of my 87+ arms
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC09107.jpg~original

2) Swan and beetle end.. Your pic cleared things up..
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC09104.jpg~original

3) This is the beetle cable and 944 arm, and where I am having an issue as far as how the beetle tube should stay firmly against the bracket
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC09105.jpg~original

4) The 944 brake cable tube, has this lip that ensure a tight fit and no slippage, and what I feel I am missing for my set up.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC09106.jpg~original

It seems like I may need to call or email Lanner? Thoughts?
Alex

[Xellex]

Well first of all, you should pull the cable through it's sleeve a little more. It seems to me it's too loose.
Second, I didn't quite understand what bracket you're talking about:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii25/xellex_anonim/2010-01-14%20Jante%20Porsche%20Cup3%20Turbo%20Twist/th_cablu.jpg~original (http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/ii25/xellex_anonim/2010-01-14%20Jante%20Porsche%20Cup3%20Turbo%20Twist/?action=view&current=cablu.jpg)

If it's nr. 1, then there's no problem, because that only holds the cable in place, not to flap around too much. (or was it for the brake fluid line/hose?? )
If it's nr. 2, then I can understand, the bug cable sleeve will not fit, because it's a bit too thick. That can be solved easily, by filing it down (did I spell that correct? -- using a file :P ) until it's a tight fit. Lanner reccomends that on his website. Don't worry if it will be a little loose, because it's not going to go anywhere. The swans are gonna keep it there tightly, eaven if the parking brake is not in use.
I took one more picture, that I thought might help:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii25/xellex_anonim/2010-01-14%20Jante%20Porsche%20Cup3%20Turbo%20Twist/th_DSCF4429.jpg~original (http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/ii25/xellex_anonim/2010-01-14%20Jante%20Porsche%20Cup3%20Turbo%20Twist/?action=view&current=DSCF4429.jpg)

Oh, and one more thing: By the looks of it, you don't need the small adapter tubes from Lanner, as your alu arms are the late model ones.

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Xellex,

Thanks a million, you seem to have cleared up my misconfusion..

It is bracket 1) as you noted on the picture, which holds the 944 e-cable in place.

My only concern is that any rubbing that occurs, hopefully it will not scar the outer tubing sleeve. Regarding the loose cable, it was just for show and has not been fitted properly to the swan and the rest of the setup.

Secondly, I will reread, what you discussed about filing down the beetle tube.. it make sense..

Lastly, everyone has been very helpful.

Thank you all for the tips and insight.. as punishment, I when I get a little time I will take some pics and help post a little article.. just give me some time.
VR
Alex

[flat]

I'm late on the conversation, but I guess it's all figured out. With the alum arms, the vw ebrake cable end goes directly into the aluminum arm. Depending on the tolerances of the end of the cable (different manufacturers) you may have to file it slightly in order to snug it into place. It may also be possible that the end is too loose in the arm, in that case you can build up the diameter with rubber tape or heat shrink. The 944 cable retention tab is no longer used. If you're handy, I'd recommend fabricating something to keep the ebrake cable out of harms way that would bolt to the stock cable retention location. The quick and dirty method would be a zip tie.

The spacer tubes are supplied for use with the steel arm setup (83-85 944).

Cheers,
Lanner

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Flat,

Thanks and it reconfirms what the fellow guys were explaining to me..

Keep everyone posted, awaiting on some 951 hard lines for the arms, as I went for 944 NA set up to the 4 pots..
VR
Alex

[evilC]

Hi Guys,

My solution to the parking brake on the beetle when using 944 alloy trailing arms was to use the beetle cables with 944 collection of end bits at the trailing arm end. The 944 swan neck connector was brazed and crimped onto the beetle cable. The only adjustment I had to do was to make a small sleeve for the outer cable where it enters the tranny tunnel tube to even up adjustment lengths of the cables at the handbrake lever. It all works a treat and I didn't have to buy any special parts!

Clive

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Evil,

Thanks for the heads up.. makes sense.

Now waiting on some hardlines, as my arms were for NA calipers, and now I have 4 pots.. (if anyone needs hard lines for NA 87+ Alum arms let me know)

Got a little carried away.. found some polish, and saw the mothers mini power ball.. so with the cold weather and awaiting parts.. figured it could not hurt.. plus it was nice "me time" via some car therapy and was relatively free.. Enjoy
VR
ALex

Pic 1
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC09114.jpg~original

Pic 2
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC09115.jpg~original

[evilC]

Alex,

Very pretty, and now you have created an excuse for not driving it "I have to spend all my time (and money) on polishing" :lmao:

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Evil,

Nice one :), and I also go flak from a fellow college.. Can't wait till he sees what I am doing with some brackets.
VR
Alex

[jmd]

alex,
compared to your arms, mine are filthy... they might look a bit shiny but they've just been wire brushed...
How did you get yours so clean?

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Jmd,

First I will admit, only one has been cleaned.

Secondly, the process I took was as follows:
1- Clean with a wire brush, and some steal wool, with a lot of simple green/or purple degreaser.
2- after that I took some Goodyear, alum and metal cleaner to finish cleaning.. this removed a lot of the left over residue.
3- after all clean, and took the mothers mini polishing ball, and mothers alum polish.. did not spend to much time, but just enough to get an idea of what it would look like..

Hope that helps.. like evil said, looks like like I am spending to much time polishing..
Alex

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Was mocking up the calipers, 4 piston brembo (944S) with the wide alum arms and disks.

The question I have is regarding shimming the caliper to ensure they are centered on the disk.

When I test fitted, the caliper rubbed without any washers.. seems to require two per bolt?

Anyone have any insight.. I checked the Porsche PET files regarding.. and after careful examination, I noted that the caliper bolts require a spring washer, and a spacer.. anyone know how many per bolt..

Again from my mocking up seems like two per?

Thanks
Alex

If pictures would help I will try to dig up my backup camera as the wife is on a trip with family and she took our primary..

[evilC]

Firstly, are you using the correct disc (rotor)? The turbo/non-turbo have different diameters, thickness and off set. If all is correct then shim them to suit. On our fitment of the 928S 4 pot calipers onto standard 944 discs i had to make a 4mm shim to centre the caliper. I also used plain washers on the bolts with thread lock as I didn't like the idea of spring washers onto the caliper lugs. Hope that helps.

Clive

[MX67]

Sorry for posting it here, but can front 944 Turbo 4-pot caliper be used on the back without problems, or You have to make shims?

Are they same offset? I want to buy front set to put them on the rear but not sure they will fit...

Thanks! :)

[Jim]

Alex very good looking arms over there but have you thought to powdercoat them?

[evilC]

Sorry for posting it here, but can front 944 Turbo 4-pot caliper be used on the back without problems, or You have to make shims?

Are they same offset? I want to buy front set to put them on the rear but not sure they will fit...

Thanks! :)

IIRC the major problem is the bolt centres are different so that you would need adapters and if you need adapters then sorting the offset would not be a problem.

Clive

[Bug@5speed(US)]

@Jim, thought about it, but $$ is a little low with two little ones, and life in general. Plus I am not looking for a show car.. Want it nice, but not exotic.. Shooting for 8/10. I think to go the extra mile would be worth it, but not necessary.. But like everything, I need to put $$ towards where it will have the highest ROI, buffing and cleaning essentially cost me $0.00. Again, would be nice, but I can live with it this way..

@Evil, made sense. I also linked up with a buddy and he showed me the spacer that I needed, he gave me one, I need to dig through a box of 944 stuff and see if he has any others.. I may just go with the spacers.. not to much $$...

Here are some pics, of the other arm, I have to do some homework for school, and a house project, so when I get some time this weekend I will start here.. Enjoy.
1) The other arm
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05435.jpg~original

2) Here is the 80% solution- Still waiting on my 944S hardlines, and shims to finish this part of the arm.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05437.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05436.jpg~original

3) Pic of the Shim, about the size of two stacked M12 washers.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05438.jpg~original

4) Here is where the shim goes between the backing plate and the caliper
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05440.jpg~original

Besides this been sandblasting clean the spring plates.. had them primed and started painting when I realized that I should have undone the two bolts on the spring plate to ensure 1) I can adjust the ride height bolt, and 2) I need to check 944 spring plate to torsion bar clearance.. (Little tough as the NE has been hit with some cold weather and snow)..

I bought some 50mm by 2mm shims that I will use to space out the spring plate, they are in the mail, so that will be the next area to tackle..

Then I got some nice torsion bar/spring plates from the other side of the pond.. 3-letters GWD :) which use a delrin like sleave which I need to trial fit and open up a little to fit snug onto the outboard side of the spring plate..

Ok gotta run, more pics to come as time is available..
VR
Alex

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Almost forgot, finished cleaning up some pads with some 80 grit, so that they have a nice matting surface.. the pads that came with these had a lot of life but needed to get freshened up specially since they are mating to a new set of zimmerman rotors.. (which I will say are nice, compared to other companies that I have used..)
VR
Alex

[evilC]

Alex,
I prefer to use Zimmerman rotors, they are a good buy. One thing to watch is that they have a tendency to rust fairly quickly that is of no concern when they are in contant use but if is likely to be a little while before you are on the road I would leave the pads out and lightly grease/oil them until you are ready to use them.
The propensity to rust is a mark of the quality of the metal and the inherent quality of the braking performance. (if it don't rust it ain't no good)

Clive

[Jim]

Sure Alex keep the cost low doesn't mean it's not good and shiny!!

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Jim.. thanks.

Got home tonight and found a bag from the shim vendor.. so figured I would take some pics, and get some feedback on the idea..

The company I used is called Mc Master's http://www.mcmaster.com (NJ location)

Pics of the shims, 2" ID, by 3" OD, and about 2mm thickness
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05441.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05444.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05445.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05447.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05448.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05446.jpg~original

Here is the spring plate, after sandblasting I realized that I should have loosened the two bolts, so I did not finish painting.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05443.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05442.jpg~original

With 2 shims, you are about 4mm, with 3 shims you get 6mm, which is what the bolts height is. I will have to trial fit when the weather gets better and see how many it will take. May need to get longer bolts, but will see later on.

Here are my spring plate/torsion bar covers.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05449.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05451.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05454.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05455.jpg~original

Need to open up the bushing sleave to fit tightly, as of right now, its ID is to small
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05452.jpg~original

Let me know what you think. The shims are low carbon steal. I tried to find higher carbon, but was not available, as well as other materials.
VR
ALex

[evilC]

Hi Alex,

I shimmed our spring plate with 5mm PVC sheet to add a little lubrication to the system as I was concerned about steel on steel rusting. I will continue to check the durability of the shims that I can measure between the camber adjuster head and the forged damper mounting arm. At the moment it is 1mm IIRC. If my shims are not durable I will take a leaf out of your book and cut some out of 5mm sheet steel.

Clive

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Clive,

Thanks for the feedback.. I was a little concerned about the elements.. I was thinking of a couple of options, if this works..
1) Simple zinc based primer/then paint them.
2) Since I need to make a run to the platers later in the spring to get some hardward plated, may take the shims and get them cadium/zinc coated.
3) Keep a good amount of copper or petrolium based lube on them.. if I do this, then maybe tack them to the spring plate so?? but unsure about this.
4) I have plenty of shims, so don't drive in the rain or snow, and if I do keep them on hand. :)

Food for thought,
VR
Alex

[evilC]

Hi Alex,

My concern was the slight rotation/grinding that the shimms may exhibit due to the spring plate movement. Even if they are plated then the ingress of dirt/dust and the like will soon wear the plating away. I think it will need some form of lubrication.

Clive

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Clive,

You make a good point and after receiving my parts, I have to question the approach.. Unfortunately I was in a rush, and did not ask enough about the Zinc gold plating, as far as thickness, penetration and such.. The parts came back clean and coated which I must say is nice to have clean parts.

I am unsure if I want to clear coat the spring plates to add protection, I definitely will use some kind of synthetic lube to cover the bushing and the shims..

Enough talk here is what the parts look like.. And for those that wondered what the spring plates look like naked "auto pron" here they are in all their glory.. :) When time permits I think I will wrap up an article on the spring plates as I have taken a lot of pics..

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05521.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05520.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05519.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05518.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05517.jpg~original

The Parts lot that I got plated and focusing on for now..I have the plates mounted for test fitment, and pics but my camera did not charge up and the batteries are dead, so I owe everyone those..

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05516.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05515.jpg~original

Let me know what you think
VR
ALex

[Steve C]

Hi

That plating looks great. I had mine nickel plated, looks like chrome.

You should have welded the inner lock bolt head on before plating.

Steve

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Steve,

I thought about that option, but since I went with the idea of using some spacers to push out the spring plates, and the GWD torsion bar covers, I think I will have no issues with rubbing..

At least that is the plan, if not welding or another option will be saught..

Thanks
Alex

[HardstyleKever]

Very interesting topic! Tomorrow i am going to tackle my e-brake kit from Lanner and fit it to my chassis.

Also got to check if i have enough clearance with the spring plate bolts.

I've blasted my arms in my garage with glass beads and then had them painted in LA7W VW/Audi silver grey and coated with a few layers of clear paint. The smaller parts i had zinc plated.

Pics of the build

http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/96798.jpg

http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/84495.jpg

http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/90814.jpg

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Thanks for sharing.. Its a same you already put together the rear only to have to take it apart for the e-brake cable..

On my side, finished last week cleaning, buffing and removing all the parts off the other arm.. I have all the parts laid out on the table, just need time..as we are dealing with a lot of family, health and other issues.. Hopefully soon I will begin trial mounting and final assembly of the rear.. then I can move to the front, and the brakes and pedal assembly..

Take care,
Alex