Strut crowns with adjustment plates

[yetibone]

Anybody know where to get camber plates in America? I've installed Porsche 944 struts, spindles, and brakes on a 1302 (with 1303 control arms) and at it's most negative position, I have about 5 degrees of positive camber on both sides.

I know that these are available in Europe, but are any available in the United States?



Yetibone

[SprintStar]

I face the same problem too. I'm making some longer aluminum control arms to solve the problem. Would you be interested in them as well?

[yetibone]

Eureka! I figured it out!
Take the strut loose from the spindle. Use a 3/8" burr on a die grinder and elongate the top hole on the strut (where it bolts to the spindle) towards the inside about 2mm. Then take a grinder
and remove 2mm of metal from the spindle, right to the inside of where the corresponding bolt hole is. Elongating the bolt hole in the strut gives a further range of adjustment, and removing metal from the spindle lets it move closer the strut without any compromise in structural integrity. When finished, I had about 3.5 degrees NEGATIVE camber!
I am interested in some different lower control arms though. Seems like stock 1303 arms are kinda gimpy, and the stronger 1302 arms just flat won't work with Porsche spindles. Let me know how yours turn out;)

yetibone

[Chris Percival]

The bottom of mk1 golf struts allow for camber adjustment with an eccentric washer. You could use the same idea, might be safer than just elongating the hole?

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by yetibone
Eureka! I figured it out!
Take the strut loose from the spindle. Use a 3/8" burr on a die grinder and elongate the top hole on the strut (where it bolts to the spindle) towards the inside about 2mm. Then take a grinder
and remove 2mm of metal from the spindle, right to the inside of where the corresponding bolt hole is. Elongating the bolt hole in the strut gives a further range of adjustment, and removing metal from the spindle lets it move closer the strut without any compromise in structural integrity. When finished, I had about 3.5 degrees NEGATIVE camber!
I am interested in some different lower control arms though. Seems like stock 1303 arms are kinda gimpy, and the stronger 1302 arms just flat won't work with Porsche spindles. Let me know how yours turn out;)

yetibone

Hmm... You elongated the hole? But what about the original eccentric bolt? It's a 17mm head. I heard that if you replace it with 12mm, you don't have to make any holes bigger yet you get more camber. Makes sense as the head is smaller so it allows for more adjustment. But I'm worried how it will hold adjustment as the cam on the bolt sort of pushes against the strut. With bigger holes, I'm not too sure....

I have a new idea... How about leaving the top stock and drill out the bottom instead? This way, you can use an additional pair of original 17mm eccentric bolts!

Will keep ya updated with the new arms. Anyone here good with maths to help me calculate the length and angles? :-)

SprintStar.

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by Chris Percival
The bottom of mk1 golf struts allow for camber adjustment with an eccentric washer. You could use the same idea, might be safer than just elongating the hole?

The 944 struts already have this adjustment.

[yetibone]

You would have to make provisions to locate the eccentric on the bottom, which would be very easy to do with a 2mm piece of flat steel, and a torch. I've thought about this, and the only thing that concerned me was the elongation of the bottom hole in the strut towards the outside. Failure of this bolt hole would result in partial seperation of the strut from the spindle. By modifying the top bolt hole, removing metal from side of the hole closest to the strut tube, you dont compromise the integrity of the bolt hole as you would by removing metal from the wheel/spindle side of bottom bolt.
I also used a small die-grinder to move the eccentric locator's inner edge 2mm. towards the strut tube (all they are for is alignment adjustment. They don't actually KEEP it aligned. The bolts do that)
It worked great om Hummbug! We posted pics in our profile of the struts installed.

Yetibone

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by yetibone

I also used a small die-grinder to move the eccentric locator's inner edge 2mm. towards the strut tube (all they are for is alignment adjustment. They don't actually KEEP it aligned. The bolts do that)
It worked great om Hummbug! We posted pics in our profile of the struts installed.

Yetibone

Hmm... Good idea of yours!!! But I thought the cam is supposed to help hold the alignment as well?

If you are sure the hole trick will do and keep the alignment for a long time, I'll go ahead with it and halt the aluminum arms project. They are expensive!!!! About $100 a pair!

:(

[yetibone]

I wont be able to try it on the road for another couple of months. Still waiting for the crankshaft we want to come available, so I can build the motor, but I have seen many other cars that have the same type of camber adjustment (Nissan, Toyota, and older Acura Integras I think) and no eccentric cam at all! I figured that if it works on all those front engine cars, then it should on a VW with such a large center to rear weight bias. After all, 944 struts and spindles were designed to support twice the weight that a 1303 could ever burden them with.

When the whole project comes together and is on the road, I intend to go ape s#!t and drive it like I stole it in this abandoned parking lot close by (want to se how it does pendilum turns!)
I will report after the shakedown!

Cheers
yetibone

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by yetibone
I wont be able to try it on the road for another couple of months. Still waiting for the crankshaft we want to come available, so I can build the motor, but I have seen many other cars that have the same type of camber adjustment (Nissan, Toyota, and older Acura Integras I think) and no eccentric cam at all! I figured that if it works on all those front engine cars, then it should on a VW with such a large center to rear weight bias. After all, 944 struts and spindles were designed to support twice the weight that a 1303 could ever burden them with.

When the whole project comes together and is on the road, I intend to go ape s#!t and drive it like I stole it in this abandoned parking lot close by (want to se how it does pendilum turns!)
I will report after the shakedown!

Cheers
yetibone

You rock manz!!! Mine is a daily-driver project. Brakes and suspension just in a couple a weeks back. Super brakes!!! Yummy, you're gonna love yours! :D

And hehe... I drive mine like I stole it too! Compared to upkeeping other brands of cars, my VW is a steal! ;)

[juse]

Could someone do me a favour and measure the diameter of the holes in chassis for the struts upper mounts?
I need the diameter because I`m fabricating camber/caster plates for vw1302(=older superbeetle) and I only have the suspension parts. Still looking for a solid and cheap chassis...and a permission from my wife to buy one.
So if you have a `71-73 super, please measure the hole in chassis where the struts upper mount bearing is fixed.
Thank you, Justin.

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by juse
Could someone do me a favour and measure the diameter of the holes in chassis for the struts upper mounts?
I need the diameter because I`m fabricating camber/caster plates for vw1302(=older superbeetle) and I only have the suspension parts. Still looking for a solid and cheap chassis...and a permission from my wife to buy one.
So if you have a `71-73 super, please measure the hole in chassis where the struts upper mount bearing is fixed.
Thank you, Justin.

Hello Justin,

I could do that for ya... And if your plates are cool, can I buy them too? :-)

Just a tasty tidbit first... The '03 hole is bigger than the '02 hole... Will measure and give ya the measurement tomorrow!

Sprint.

[juse]

Thank you.
I would be very grateful to you if you`ll do that for me sprintstar.
Justin

[juse]

I think this clever product from H&R might interest you with a lowered later type super, check it out: http://www.hrsprings.com/site/frameproducts.html
Justin

[yetibone]

DIGGITY! I gotta have 'em. Thanx for the link Justin!

[juse]

Sprintstar have you forgotten me?
Could you Yetibone do me the favour I asked before if Sprintster has gone abroad or something?
Justin

[yetibone]

Well... Ours is actually a 1302. It's a late '71 Super Beetle that I've fitted with 1303 control arms so as I could use Porsche 944 spindles. I'll be at the shop tomorrow (work:hurl: ) and will measure the ones on Hummbug. I hope there is no difference in the size of 1302, and 1303 strut crowns.

I'm using stock crowns right now. In fact everything from the top of the spring on up to the locknut is stock on ours. Hope I can fix this somehow with parts available in the United States.


Yetibone

[juse]

My setup is also from a 1302, so I don`t need dimensions of a strut crown.
It`s the hole where the crown locates in body/chassis that I`m interested.
I need the diameter of it, nothing else.
I came up another idea for you;
You can easily improve the camber effect with original strut crowns by replacing the roller bearing with a spherical one.
This way the rubber wont restrict when tilting the strut for negative camber adjustment.
You just need a spherical bearing with the outer diameter being 42mm and the inner 20mm. Then make a steel pivot bush for the dampers shaft with 14mm hole.
And make sure it`s good quality bearing, preferably not with a bronze lining.
Justin

[yetibone]

Justin,
Measured Hummbug's openings in the top of the strut towers.
I measured 86mm diameter perfect circle.
BTW, that is a good idea with the single ball bearing in the strut crowns. I was assuming that the bearing is sort of like a heim-joint type of thing, or designed like the end of a heim-joint (correct me if I'm wrong) That would keep some stress off the rubber parts. Thanks for the idea!

Y-bone

[juse]

The original strut-crown has a typical roller ballbearing inside, which doesnt allow that much of misalignment. Its designed that the rubber not only insulates the noise from the suspension but allows minor misalignment.
I thank you many times Yetiman for that favour, I owe you one.
Justin;)

[SprintStar]

>>I asked before if Sprintster has gone abroad or something?

Sorry Juse! Just got back!

The hole for the strut mount is 86mm on the '02/'03. I believe the late '03 has a bigger hole as the late cups I bought would not fit my early '03. The mounting points are the same, but the whole thing won't fit in as it's too big, leading me to think the '02 hole is smaller...

I've got a friend with a late '03. Will get him to measure his.

Sprint.

[juse]

Thanks Sprintstar, but I got the measure from Yetibone allready.
I tought back there that something happened to you when you kinda disappeared. Happy to hear youre back in business.:D
Justin

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by juse
Thanks Sprintstar, but I got the measure from Yetibone allready.
I tought back there that something happened to you when you kinda disappeared. Happy to hear youre back in business.:D
Justin

Hehe... I'm back! And over the weekend, I did something MAJOR to Horace, my German Looker!

If you've got a decent Internet connection, I could send ya some pics and movies. Yea... I think this conversion rocks! But I ain't telling the WHOLE world just yet. I owe it to ya for disappearing like that. ;)

[juse]

I`m curious to see what you are doing with your Horace, but I`m afraid that the this computer that I use at work doesent support much high quality video.
Did you solve your camber-problem? Because my homemade camberplates are soon ready, and if I get some pictures of them to this forum you might get jealous...they look really great.
Justin

[Ross Morrison]

Sorry to jump in here guys, but, I am trying to see what kind of interest there would be in fabricated tca's for 02/03s.
I fitted 944 stuff to a late 03 cab, using a machined spacer to make up ther deficit between VW and Porsche ball joint sizes.
It was a customers car with a 1776.He drove it real hard.

He called me months later to say something had failed on the front end as he was backing out of a parking space.
The spacer/nut and bolt had failed.

I looked at it and thought I would get rid of the whole lot and build my own arms that would accept the Porsche ball joint.
In the end ,I modded his tca's.Worked a treat.
The ultimate for me, on an '03/02, would be a heim type top mount with eccentric adjustment built in, struts converted to 2.5" coils,Rose jointed tca's with a front link that replaced the anti roll bar. A drop link from the arm could then be linked to a fabbed roll bar mount.
I want to do this to an '03 for circuit/engine testing duty.
Once I have done my own Ghia drag car, I will spend some more time on it and in more depth.
Would this be of interest to other Super owners?

Cheers,Ross.

[Michael Ghia]

Ross,
You can now buy bottom balljoints from Kerscher which fit the control arms and the Porsche spindles.
MG

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by juse
I`m curious to see what you are doing with your Horace, but I`m afraid that the this computer that I use at work doesent support much high quality video.
Did you solve your camber-problem? Because my homemade camberplates are soon ready, and if I get some pictures of them to this forum you might get jealous...they look really great.
Justin

You can download it the clips from home at your leisure... :-)

And do send me some pics of your camber plates! Can they do caster adjustment too? That would be killer!!!!

Sprint.

[juse]

To Ross Morrison;
I also planned on fabricating my own control arms, mainly because I`m not really satisfied with the original setup. I think that a control arm would be much firmer with a radius rod, and after adding one you could use the sway-bar only for its original purpose.
But when I represented this idea to the MOT engineers, they rejected it straight away...well thats the way here in Finland.
But here is one link for those who are not bounded with strict laws;http://members.telering.at/robert.nachbauer/index2.htm
Look in technik: fahrwerk. Another good example is found on Germanlook.com: feature articles, Japanese racer.
And here is for Sprinstar;
My plates have only adjustment for camber, because I found it easier to adjust caster from the sway-bar frame mounting points. And I think there might not be room enough in the body fixing holes for strut upper mounts.
Justin

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by juse
To Ross Morrison;
I also planned on fabricating my own control arms, mainly because I`m not really satisfied with the original setup. I think that a control arm would be much firmer with a radius rod, and after adding one you could use the sway-bar only for its original purpose.
But when I represented this idea to the MOT engineers, they rejected it straight away...well thats the way here in Finland.
But here is one link for those who are not bounded with strict laws;http://members.telering.at/robert.nachbauer/index2.htm
Look in technik: fahrwerk. Another good example is found on Germanlook.com: feature articles, Japanese racer.
And here is for Sprinstar;
My plates have only adjustment for camber, because I found it easier to adjust caster from the sway-bar frame mounting points. And I think there might not be room enough in the body fixing holes for strut upper mounts.
Justin

Show me, show me!!! :-)

[juse]

Sorry Sprintstar, I dont have those pictures yet, I dont even own a digital camera..
But these look quite similar to mine, and fit to Porsche 944: http://www.lindseyracing.com/
look for 944 store/suspension: Weltmeister camber plates.
(ahem...how do you add an image to a post?)
Those pages of Lindsey Racing also show some interesting pics of their 944 racer-project.
Justin

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by juse
Sorry Sprintstar, I dont have those pictures yet, I dont even own a digital camera..
But these look quite similar to mine, and fit to Porsche 944: http://www.lindseyracing.com/
look for 944 store/suspension: Weltmeister camber plates.
(ahem...how do you add an image to a post?)
Those pages of Lindsey Racing also show some interesting pics of their 944 racer-project.
Justin

Hehe.... Keen to make some for me? *eyes blink blink*

Sprint.

[juse]

Youre not the first one who asks me that...not sure if it would be advantageous. Machining a pair of them now and then, and then the shipping costs around the world (I live in Finland, northern Europe).
Maybe I can send blueprints of them to Germanlook.com archives or something, of course after I have tested them.
Justin

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by juse
Youre not the first one who asks me that...not sure if it would be advantageous. Machining a pair of them now and then, and then the shipping costs around the world (I live in Finland, northern Europe).
Maybe I can send blueprints of them to Germanlook.com archives or something, of course after I have tested them.
Justin

That will be cool! Can't wait!

Sprint.