CNC made aluminum Uniball rear suspension system

[-Alex-]

I am making similar uniball system for rear suspension, what remmele, MBT, red9 and others are offering for 944 aluarms.

All parts will be made from 7075 T6 aluminum, threaded bar is made from 4130 chromoly.


Inner part of the uniball housing supports itself to the end of the torsionbar housing.


Includes all bolts and Hirschmann M20 uniball joint. Uniball joint is supported from both sides.


Nothing is welded on this kit.


I will make as many sets as people want, but from order only. Price will be 800 euros, due to higher machining costs, machining takes about 1 hour per part.


To every kit i can have made little custom features, since i will be making these one kit at time.

I can also put false value for customs :)

50% payment required in advance, so i can order materials and uniball joints etc. Moneytransfer and paypal works for me.



PM or email me if you want one!

alexstorskrubb@jippii.fi



Here is second updated model and one real one with remmele uniball kit, first cad picture is for 944 aluarms, and second is for 924/beetle steel arms.

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/2461/uniball944system70751.jpg

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9889/uniball944system12mmthi.jpg

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5483/img3006p.jpg

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1638/img3001hh.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7904/06062012.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4692/060620122.jpg

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8766/060620123.jpg

[jmd]

Is anyone in the US / Canada making these? I need a set that's supportive of 944T trailing arms...

PM me and let me know.
thanks!

[randyj]

Alex,

Have you already made a set of those? I thought that I had seen those before but could not find the post. I guess you cant use the uni-ball system and still retain the torsion bar. I would like to keep mine and just have some helper coilovers like they use on the 944.

Randy

[-Alex-]

Sorry, i havent made these yet. Having hard time to find strong M20 uniball here in finland, Fluro or Hirschmann i would prefer. Each cost about 60-75 euros each, yikes!


Also found that SKF makes these too, should be strong enough, static 51KN and dynamic 31KN. Our use is 80-90% static.

http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/Forwarder?action=PPP&lang=en&imperial=false&windowName=null&perfid=208400&prodid=208400017

[-Alex-]

http://s14.postimage.org/ui48y5xrj/Uniball_944_system_5.jpg


More info about my design and its strength. Small bolt holes are 10,5mm and bolt holding uniball is 20, so there is very little "slop". Actually there is M20 thread on the inner part.

I did few strenght tests with solidworks simulation tool, using 6082 T6 material.

I have chosen Hirschmann M20 joint, which can stand 4500kg static load and 9000kg dynamic load.


Small bolt holes were used to "fix" the part and "force" from uniball bolt hole. Force is 2000kg per on 20mm hole, force direction to the back.

Inner part factor of safety is 3,5 and outer part factor of safety is over 5. Putting these two parts together should make a strong housing for uniball joint.

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6646/uniballsiskiinnike.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7908/uniballulkokiinnike.jpg

[beetle1303]

Hey Alex,nice model... I'm using SolidWorks as well (10 years know).
I would like to see the stress and strain charts, max values etc and deformation as well...
What factor of safety are you using?
Do you need some calculations for input forces suspension dynamics, braking etc?? if so pm me

Chris

[-Alex-]

Hello, i have been using solidworks about 6 years. I found few litlle weak spots from the bracket, so i redesigned it.



http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/3246/uniball944system5.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2308/uniball944system7.jpg


I am not using any preferred factor of safety, but bigger i get, better it will be. All tests have been done with 20000N=2000kg force. I tried also different directions the with same force on these uniball housings per part, i am getting 2 or higher factor of safety :)

I could try get the stress, strain and deformation charts. Bracket will be made still from S355 steel, but i would prefer Optim 500 highstrength steel, which also you can get up to 60mm thicknesses, the best material would be 7075 aluminum, but it would rise the price of this kit.

[Wally]

Very, very nice!
What part is the 'bracket'? Anything connected to the trailing arm should be as light as possible as its unsprung weigth. Alu would be preferable over steel with that thinking.

[-Alex-]

Bracket is the part that used to attach whole system to the arm :) Uniball bearing housing is aluminum.

Yes, i would too prefer aluminum, definetly the 7075 T6 series aluminum, but steel bracket is in this pricerange.

Strengths: Normal steel is 355N / mm2, 6082 T6 aluminum is 270N / mm2, 7075 T6 aluminum is about 500N / mm2

[-Alex-]

All test done again with 2000kg.


Uniball housing outer part stress chart

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/9931/uniballkiinnikeulkopuol.jpg


Uniball housing outer part displacement chart

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/9931/uniballkiinnikeulkopuol.jpg


Uniball housing outer part when load is 10 000kg, factor of safety is 0.85, notice the red little weak spots :)

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9931/uniballkiinnikeulkopuol.jpg




Arm attachment part, FOS is 1.38 with 2000kg load.


Arm attachment part stress chart

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/5818/uniballkiinnikestress.jpg


Arm attachment part displacement chart

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3043/uniballkiinnikedisplace.jpg


Arm attachment part when load is 6000kg, factor of safety is 0.45, notice again the red little weak spots :)

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3054/uniballkiinnike16000kgyg.jpg

[Mr Big]

These look amazing. Will they work with the early steel arms?

[Humble]

I'm very interested in getting a set of these, how soon are you going to start making these and what kind of fulfillment time do you expect before getting them shipped?

[owdlvr]

How far into the torsion tube (if at all) do your mounts go?

-Dave

[-Alex-]

I will be only making these from order, and i want 50% advance to get materials and joints.

I can also make all parts from 7075 T6 aluminum, which is twice stronger than 6082 aluminum and third stronger than S355 steel. Extra expense is 110 euros if you want everything from 7075 T6.

But 6082 and S355 can also handle the stresses wery well.

My system at the moment doesnt intrude into torsionbar housing, but i am thinking that it could be like this, at same time it also stops water getting into TB splines.

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/2411/uniball944systemrubbers.jpg

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2411/uniball944systemrubbers.jpg

[Wally]

I can also make all parts from 7075 T6 aluminum, which is twice stronger than 6082 aluminum and third stronger than S355 steel. Extra expense is 110 euros if you want everything from 7075 T6.

But 6082 and S355 can also handle the stresses wery well.

My system at the moment doesnt intrude into torsionbar housing, but i am thinking that it could be like this, at same time it also stops water getting into TB splines.


7075 T6 is nice! If its even stronger, you could spare some material and make it a little lighter still?
The intrusion into the torsionbar housing seems not needed unless you run a dailt driver with these. Less the nose it would also save some expensive alu and again, weight ;)
Interested, but need to build up my engine first again..

[volksmeister]

Alex is helping me with a steel arm version for my uniball setup.. a real standup guy with plenty of good ideas to offer:)
Spoke to him about the possible water ingress into the torsion tube from the rear wheels spinning and the idea of maybe using the OE springplate bushings as a water stop.. (although an old rag and some sealant would probably do the trick too). He quickly put the idea into 3D in a blink of an eye.. great collaboration
Between the monsoon season and high local humidity we get over here, it seems like a good idea:)

[-Alex-]

Yes, it is easiest to use stock TB rubber bushing as a seal, but i dont think it needs any more support.

I plan to make M10 bolt holes small as possible, maybe 10,2 or 10,5mm, so there would be less slop.

Also if making from 7075 T6, whole system can be little slimmer, due to the strength of the 7075.


How much should there be distance from the housing cover inner surface to arm attachment surface? Springplate is 4mm thick, maybe this is about 5mm?


One my finnish vw fellow said that these uniball systems would last longer, if at the inner pivot would have bronze bushing or bearing instead of rubber / urethane bushing, but wonder how rough the ride would be then ;)

[Humble]

Can you take credit cards? ;)

Also is there enough room in the design to countersink the allen bolts fully or even partially?

[owdlvr]

Yes, it is easiest to use stock TB rubber bushing as a seal, but i dont think it needs any more support.


The off-road guys (Class 11), have found the four mounting bolts shear out of the Torsion Bar housing, which is why they recommend a section of tubing goes into the TB housing (without bushing) to eliminate the stress on the mounting bolts. I'll be the first to admit yours are far nicer then mine, but this shows the tube we welded to the backside:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7031/6398844375_2dc99a45a6_b.jpg

I suppose the argument that the on-road forces aren't as strong is a somewhat valid one...but add loads of grip such as in a track setting and I suspect you'd be seeing similar load values, just on a more progressive curve.

-Dave

[-Alex-]

Sorry,

Only money transfer and paypal :)

There might be room for countersink the allen bolts, but i have too see if its still as strong.

Can you take credit cards? ;)

Also is there enough room in the design to countersink the allen bolts fully or even partially?

[beetle1303]

Alex, nice results. great work.
I would prefer having a tube without the stock bushing in place, since water ingression is apparent after a while, and it gives better load spread capabilities.

I would try to make a rubber flange to put between the inner part and the mounting face.

owdlvr, you got it right, off road sees a very high peak load ie when landing after a jump but an easier life cycle ie while sliding on gravel and on road sees a harder life cycle since there is much more grip and track cars have the hardest continuous life cycle due to extreme grip offered at the track

Chris

[randyj]

Would you be able to use the torsion bars with your set up?

Randy

[owdlvr]

Would you be able to use the torsion bars with your set up?

Randy

Nope.

The whole point of these items are to create a pivot when eliminating the Torsion Bars.

-Dave

[volksmeister]

Alex, can the inner bearing plate be machined to close off the gap (red arrow) between the inner mounting surface and the rear shock tower?


http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4784/photoqah.jpg

[-Alex-]

Possibly, like this, but i dont know the depth of the gap. Do you prefer this or earlier designed system with OE rubber bushing acting as seal?

Also, do you want to be the system made out of 7075 or 6082/S355?


http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/albums/Guru/remmele1_1.jpg

[-Alex-]

How much should this dimension be? Its the gap between springplate and stock springplate cover. I am thinking maybe 0,5mm.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/619/uniball944system8.jpg

[Turbonutta]

Alex they look awesome out of interest what the shipping cost to uk PM me if you like, many thanks

[-Alex-]

Shipping costs are:

1. Sweden, Denmark, Germany and Estonia 28 euros

2. Spain, UK, Ireland, Italy, Austria, Greek, Poland, Portugal and France 40 euros.

3. Usa, Kanada, Iceland, Canary Islands, Norway, Switzerland and Russia 56 euros

4. Australia, Japan, China, Hong-kong, Thailand, other Asian destinations and New Zealand 65 euros

[-Alex-]

This kit is specially made for volksmeister, feels kinda tougher than remmele one, but actually lighter because its fully made out of 7075 aluminum.



http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3894/05042012.jpg

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5012/050420122.jpg

[Wally]

Very nice!

[-Alex-]

Second set i am making for 944 aluarms. SInce making these from 7075, it can be made little slimmer and lighter than using 6082/S355 materials.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2461/uniball944system70751.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5176/uniball944system70752.jpg

[Obiwan]

One 7075 set ordered :D

[-Alex-]

Now there might be possibility to get these anodized to black or grey. I have to ask the price.


Obiwans set will be ready littlebit later, due to machinist making his own parts for drag race event.

Uniball kit has same price until july, because after that my machinist goes to china for few months. After then price may rise 50-100 euros for few months, because i have to use another machinist.

[volksmeister]

Finally mocked up the uniball that Alex has made.. :D
Everything looks cherry so far except that the damn early shock tower design doesn't give much top clearance.. I estimate around 2.5" travel before the top bolt on the uniball bracket would hit the underside of the shock tower.. I would have to probably swap out that bolt for a countersunk one or something..

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4050/p1060085copy.jpg

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2127/p1060095copy.jpg

[Wally]

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4050/p1060085copy.jpg


Aren't you supposed to mount that on the other side of the trailing arm? :confused:
Maybe I am confused with alu trailing arms. It just looks odd like that to me, but maybe its just me :o

[-Alex-]

As far as i know, all stock springplates and remmele & mbt uniball kit are bolted to innerside of arm. :)

http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/78561.jpg

http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/14/44/14/06/42210.jpg

[Wally]

Excellent! My bad. Its been a while since I looked there ;)
The difference in shock tower height is considerable now I see these pics from late models!

[-Alex-]

Somewhere i found remmele kit installed to steel irs arms, i sent it to Volksmeister, but i cannot find any more it..damn.

[volksmeister]

Found it.. Here's the pic of steel arms with remmele uniball

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9162/remmeleuniballophanging.jpg

A bit more got done today with the rear rotors and wheels on..
Will probably have to clearance the shock tower to avoid interference with the suspension movement..
open to ideas.. anyone?

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2839/p1060088v.jpg

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/149/p1060091copy.jpg

[-Alex-]

Can you show pic where uniball kit hits to shocktower and then measure between lower and upper shock point?

Just thinking what is the min length for shock.

Looks like you can you do little clearancing to shock tower. Looks also that you cannot take any material from arm bracket itself, because its straigth sides seems to hit to shock tower.

yeah, it looks totally different than later one. Maybe you could change latemodel shock towers, some work, but cheap in parts ;) I would consider this.

Body attachment points at rear may need massaging, but its quite common thing to install older body to latemodel chassis. I think mendeola oval has latemodel chassis too.

[aartjan]

@Alex. Do you anyhow compensate for the (lateral) free-position of the uniball?
Both during installation and (toe-)alignment, you might induce static preload on the components which could decrease the 'reserve'. The load distribution between the components is not only determined by its geometry, but also by their relative stiffnesses. Especially compared to stock, the lateral stiffness of the setup is much larger. A stock springplate can easily flex in lateral direction and is therefore capable of handling all kinds of suspension irregularities. Since both the uniball housing and bracket have become quite stiff, the stresses will mainly concentrate on the thread which connects both parts. Quality and fabrication type is therefore important for its lifetime, as we all know.

Extending to the overall suspension: Increasing the stiffness of the inner pivot (for instance also a uniball) could maybe help to off-load the outer uniball setup, but at the same time would require more facilities to prevent excessive preload. The same reasoning can be done the other way around.

I am not trying to rant, but just interested in your opinion and general discussion, as you are confident enough to sell these setups. We've seen the pictures of failed uniball setups on this forum, so it is never bad to think about these things before being overwhelmed by those shiny parts ;).

[-Alex-]

All i can say with confidence that my parts are as strong as remmele/mbt setup, if made from 7075 T6 alu :)

Housing design is similar, but thicker and has 20mm joint instead of 18mm joint. I also added side gussets to my design bracket, it made significantly stronger to resist bending.

Yes, its true that with this style parts, there is no more flex like with springplates.

Uniball joint itself in its housing can move sideways 4 degrees to both sides, but there is no joint slop at sideways inside housing.

Yeah, the threaded bar can indeed broke at any design, i have seen too. I think too that is caused by arm moving too much sideways caused by too much flexing inner bushing?

[-Alex-]

I would / could do in a future modified connecting bar with two opposite direction threads, to have easier fine tuning. Too bad that my machinist doesnt have any left hand taps, they cost about 100 euros.

One possibility to convert existing assemblies to change uniball joint to left handed thread version and have made only connecting rod.


But i did design long holes to brackets for finetuning at 944 aluarm application.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5839/moc410tappi.jpg

[Turbonutta]

these lookin real nice Alex ,can i ask what limits the downward travel (the springplate used to sit in the ledge) or how it could be done..

[-Alex-]

There is more travel than with springplates, i dont know much more exactly.

[Wally]

I think what Turbonutta wanted to know is what is it that fysically limits travel eventually.
My guess is its the end/limit on the damper itself that limits downward travel.

[owdlvr]

I think what Turbonutta wanted to know is what is it that fysically limits travel eventually.
My guess is its the end/limit on the damper itself that limits downward travel.

If this is the case...its going to void the warranty on any commercially produced damper out there. I'm not aware of any company that doesn't require external limits for both upwards and downward travel.

For my car, to keep the QA1 warranty I have the stock bumpstops in place for upward travel, and installed limiting straps for downward travel. I'll try and snag some photos of my setup the next time it's up on stands. The limiting straps for suspension drop were a fairly significant puzzle to sort out!

Anyone looking at uniball setups should be aware that the car doesn't need to take air for full droop to occur, and with it possible damage to the damper. This is an issue for _all_ uniball options, since the stock downward limiter is eliminated.

-Dave

[Turbonutta]

yes wally you are correct i wanted to no what limited the downward travel, maybe a limiting strap or simular could work, is the shock strong enough to limit travel, i know its only going to its limit when on a jack or going over a hump

im still trying to decide if i want/need a set of these as im still fitting my alloy arms

[-Alex-]

Yeah, shock limits the downtravel first probably. After it, the uniball joint hits to housing parts. Max safe angle is 65 degrees for joint.


http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/60/maxtravel.jpg

[Wally]

That doesn't look like a problem at all: the front Mc Pherson struts are limited also by the shock's max downward travel. All other OEM cars also I think? Only inward travel needs an external limit as the whole car then needs to be slowed down. Full downward travel just needs to slow down the weight of the wheel and suspension. The down travel being dampenend by the shock's action anyways, so the 'bump' will be minimal I would think.
Why you think thats a problem or voids warrenties Turbonutta?

Limit straps originated from swing axle gearboxes imo where you didn;t want the suspension going extremely positive on camber ('tucking under the car') which caused lot of accidents back in the days iirc. If the shock isn't overly long, your CV's will cope and there is no problem. Or am I missing s/th?

[owdlvr]

That doesn't look like a problem at all: the front Mc Pherson struts are limited also by the shock's max downward travel. All other OEM cars also I think? Only inward travel needs an external limit as the whole car then needs to be slowed down. Full downward travel just needs to slow down the weight of the wheel and suspension. The down travel being dampenend by the shock's action anyways, so the 'bump' will be minimal I would think.
Why you think thats a problem or voids warrenties Turbonutta?


Front struts as used in MacPherson strut assemblies are designed with an internal bump stop as part of the strut. This is not the case with all shocks out there, and it's far more likely the rear coil-over shocks used by most GL folks do not have internal bumpstops. I don't have the QA1 documentation handy, but it specifically mentioned installing suspension limiters for both upwards and downwards movement to protect the piston and valve assembly from possibly topping or bottoming out. The documentation was clear about how not having limiters (in both directions) would void the warranty.

Every shock is different, and since they're typically not used in the intended application people should be checking. For my QA1's, I had to install limiting straps to ensure the shock doesn't top out. Anyone who's running these shocks without, is running without a warranty and potentially damaging the valving.

-Dave

[Wally]

Front struts as used in MacPherson strut assemblies are designed with an internal bump stop as part of the strut.



Where in a Mc Pherson strut is the rebound limiting?

Inbound is clear with the rubber boot thingy in there, but what is there for full extension?

Seriously, I really wouldn't know.

[owdlvr]

A strut cartridge designed for a macpherson strut front suspension will have an internal rubber (or similar) disc which keeps the valves from contacting the shock body on full extension. This is also found inside the mono-tube style shocks used on the torsion bar front suspension in a beetle. I can't say for sure if it's found in the design of the rear monotubes (stock style shocks), but it doesn't matter as the stock spring plates keep the suspension from fully extending the shock.

Universal coil-over shocks are designed without any internal protection, and its accepted practice in dirt-track racing that limiters are designed in the suspension linkage for both bottom out and top out. The only shocks I can't confirm are the Fox shocks, as there is nothing online about the requirements. This isn't too surprising though, as there was nothing online about the QA1's...it's only because I read the materials in the box that I realized.

I will get photos of my limiting straps up soon.

-Dave

[-Alex-]

Here is a second version which i have designed. The housing is one piece desgin and also uses M20 joint instead of smaller joint what MBT and Remmele are using.. Goes down under :)


http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9659/mbtstyleuniball944aluar.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9659/mbtstyleuniball944aluar.jpg

[Wally]

Like!
I hope I can afford a set one day.

[-Alex-]

I am not sure that can i get done these single piece uniball housings at locally. For this i need quite big block of aluminum and also needs time at lathe, if nice looks at outer surface is needed.


I have to ask if someone wants this style.

[kendy]

Hi

But what about absorbers? What will fit for this system?

Regards
Kamil

[-Alex-]

Remmele sells coilovers what will fit well to rear. Also here at the forum is more info about rear coilovers. QA1, Koni and AVO are quite popular.

[kendy]

but i cant find fx QA1 dealer in Europe :( Only Kerscher - 880 E/pair - what about remmele price? Do u know?

[-Alex-]

Does it matter really? I bought QA1 coilovers from autofabcart, not so expensive. Shipping was $72.

Remmele shocks are also expensive, around 850€ about 200€ more than QA1.

http://remmelemotorsport.com/fahrwerk.html

[kendy]

Ok, can you tell me which type of QA1 i should buy? And which springs?

[-Alex-]

QA1 Promastar, single or double adjustable. Dont know the exact lenght, you have to measure it. Stock irs shocks are about 11"-16".


Use around 350-425 lbs springs with stock weight drivetrain and mild engine, more hardcore motor etc maybe 450-550 lbs springs.


On steel irs arms you might have to drill another hole to the arm, see here:

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10456&highlight=QA1

Here are QA1 shocks on aluarms at Humbles car:

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7848&page=19

[kendy]

thanks, it helped me :)

[owdlvr]

Hmmm..seems my post from earlier today didn't work out. QA1 has changed their part numbers in the past year. The "popular" QA1 shocks on this site are the following:

DS402 - Single Adjustable Shock
DD402- Double Adjustable Shock

They use 2.5" springs, and you'll find that the spring interferes with both the stock shock mount and the CV Joint. Best solutions (IMHO) are to make new lower shock mounts and use Motorsport CV Boots. For the motorsport Boots I used GKN part number MSJ6002 (Type1 CVs):
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7062/6971595641_32b7ee27a4_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7040/6825475760_93bd22b75b_z.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7168/6831066809_01bfa70cc6_z.jpg

For the lower shock mounts, I'd go with something fully custom build/welded as opposed to modding the factory mounts. I started with modding the factory mounts and so much is cut away its arguably not strong enough or safe.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5344/7052932235_a9848352d8_z.jpg http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5326/6906841602_faf0bccddb_z.jpg

-Dave

[Wally]

Doesn't have QA1 have 2,25" springs and perches? I even run 2.25" on the front (other brand).

Do you only run 300lbs springs on the rear? I started with that on the front and now run 400 already there...

[kendy]

hi freaks ;)

so - if i choose DD402 should i use 9 or 10" springs? and fx on autofabcart are:

http://autofabcart.net/search.aspx?find=qa1+springs&log=false&category=4

350 lbs? 400lbs? i have vw1302 and 2028 engine :)

[owdlvr]

QA1 told me they only ever offered these with 2.5" springs, though someone posted up that their set was using 2.25" springs. QA1 said I could lathe down the perches (They don't sell a 2.25" set for these shocks) but when I did the math there would be so little meat left on the threaded perch I decided against it. The 300lb springs were used for testing/fitting only, as soon as the engine went in I moved to 550's.

9" springs will be a better choice, or even an 8". I'm using 8" 550lbs out back with my 1302. With the 8" length I can swap out the springs without having to remove the axle or anything else. The 9" springs I have just *barely* pop on without issues. I think if they were stiffer then 300lbs I'd have difficulty for sure.

-Dave

[Wally]

Yeah, 550's sound about right.

[kendy]

ok, i ordered 550 lbs :)

[-Alex-]

550 sounds a lot, but i havent tried yet coilovers at back. Mendeola uses most of the time at their rear kit 450lbs springs.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/910793.jpg



Does it just look like that with aluarms there is more room between coilover and CV joint boot, or is there?

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2784/hinterachse.jpg

[kendy]

so..i changed order for 500 lbs :)

[owdlvr]

550 sounds a lot, but i havent tried yet coilovers at back. Mendeola uses most of the time at their rear kit 450lbs springs.



Two things to consider: The kits used in their photographs are for a fiberglass speedster kit which is considerably lighter. Their shock mounting points are changed and thus the leverage ratio is likely different then our (typically) stock mounting points.

With stock shock mounts a 300lb spring will have the suspension sink to 1/2" off the bumpstops with just a body & transmission. No glass, no motor. 550lbs rides well, slightly stiffer then stock, and still requires preload to adjust the ride height with a complete car.

-Dave

[Wally]

Good info Dave and nice pictures Alex!
Kendy, I think you should probably get used to the idea that a completely modified suspension with coil-overs is just not exactly right the first time and needs adjustments to work as well as you anticipated when you wanted to change from stock.
Buying more then one set of springs is part of that adjustment I think. I ordered an extra set of springs (they don;t cost much btw) two years in a row and I think I have it set now. Sometimes you also need to get used to new springs a little. I changed over back and forth a few times and got a feel for what works best better now.
With a 40/60 weight ditribution (guesstimate) I guess for my car a 600lbs spring theoretically sounds best with my 400lbs front springs, but you never know till you try it. For now, I seem to overpower the 25.5mm rear torsion bars with drag starts. Each application is different is what I am trying to say and multiple sets of springs might just not be avoidable.

[Wally]

Does it just look like that with aluarms there is more room between coilover and CV joint boot, or is there?

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2784/hinterachse.jpg

Alu arms are wider in general as you know, but the CV sits even further in the arm, making the shaft itself relatively longer then the increase in track width would suggest. Hence never a clearance problem with the CV boot.

Nice set-up BTW. Who's (german) car is this? I would like to see where he has mounted that sway bar and who's coil-overs thos are.

[-Alex-]

Don't know that car, i have had that picture few years. I remember that you have aluarms also, what lenght shocks are you using?

I havent yet bought rear shocks, just today got hubs and hats anozied to black, they are awesome. Now sawing for the transaxle.

[Wally]

Don't know that car, i have had that picture few years. I remember that you have aluarms also, what lenght shocks are you using?


Yeah, thats why I was interested: I now use 944 shocks (Koni yellow) and they have their (shortenend) bump stop about the same time as my (also shortenend) trailing arm bump stops. Its a good match therefore for my current ride height.
These in the pic seem shorter, more inbound travel possibility, which could be helpfull if you were to go even lower in the rear.
Looks like Remmele coil-overs to me, but not sure..

[volksmeister]

What about Protech shocks recommended by ricola?
For those with steel arms, they come in 1.9" which gives better clearance from the CV boots and reasonably priced..
you can opt for extended base, choose btw bushing or bearings etc..
But gotta check if they have springs higher than 400lbs..

[Wally]

What about Protech shocks recommended by ricola?

You must 'design' your own shock with them as they will ask what dimensions you'll want and you will have to wait and see if what they make from that is what will fit and work.
I'd rather have a shock/coil-over strut that has proved itself on my application (bug or 944), but the price difference is huge, which makes it all the more difficult..

[-Alex-]

Third set for aluminum arms is under construction, same as last :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img252/936/uniball944system7075.jpg

AVO has also many shock lengths, i helped pick up coilovers from AVO for my friends homemade a-arm project for his 1960 beetle.

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/competition-dampers/avo-universal-twin-tube-coilover-damper

[graham]

Hi Alex I wondered if these would be a good match for your uniball set up ? regards Graham http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=749/CA=219

[-Alex-]

Yeah, those are ok. They include necessary bolt extensions at bottom end. Choose atleast 450lbs springs, or better 500lbs. Ask from subaruengined beetle owners what springs they are using?

[kendy]

Where can i buy boots like this? I need it in europe.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7062/6971595641_32b7ee27a4_z.jpg

[ricola]

I got mine here:
http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/kit-car/rod-ends-bearings/gkn-aerodynamic-cv-joint-boot

[kendy]

thanks ;)

[-Alex-]

I have one set that its not complete, i can make a complete setup either for 944 aluarm or 944/924/bug steel arm for 650 euros, this offer is valid only up until next month or so ;)

[kendy]

What kind of alu do you use? 7075 or 2017A?

[-Alex-]

I use 7075-T6 only.

[Humble]

Is it too late to snap up that incomplete uniball set? I need it for 944T aluminum arms and correct me if i'm wrong but these will work with the stock porsche swaybay pckups that go through the arm and spring plate? PM with billing details :)

[jmd]

Humble,

I'm running your setup and am curious about what you're getting up to?
I am building my own uni's at the moment and would love to know how you're planning on using these parts?

more info?

[-Alex-]

Who? Me? Humble? :)

What you want to know?

[Humble]

jmd, I'm after few things really.

1. I'm looking for more adjustability out of the back end than I'm getting from the stock porche spring plates. It's also a pain to fine tune with the eccentric adjustment bolts.

2. I want to cut down on the rear end slop now that I'm playing with the much higher cornering loads that slicks produce. These plates and delrin pivot bushings should help with that.

3. I like giving back to the community where I can and getting suspension parts from members puts money into GLer hands.


If you aren't making a time attack car the stock parts are great. Even for intermediate track use on street tires they will hold up just fine. I'm at the stage now where I'm trying to go from the top 8% to the top 5% and I need reliability and repeatability. :)

[-Alex-]

I am now offering bus kits also :)


http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6506/uniball944systemt21.jpg

[Humble]

Thought I'd put an update here and put up Alex's hard work. I finally had a chance to open the box and check out the parts. They are very robust and absolutely beautiful!

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/humblewolf/Lucy/DSCF6060_zpsf3e2467c.jpg~original

[petevw]

Is it too late to snap up that incomplete uniball set? I need it for 944T aluminum arms and correct me if i'm wrong but these will work with the stock porsche swaybay pckups that go through the arm and spring plate? PM with billing details :)

Have any pics of where and how these swaybars mount?

[Humble]

Here's a pic I took earlier, I can try and grab a better one from the backside later.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/humblewolf/Lucy/rearswaybar2.jpg~original

[petevw]

Cool, thanks

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Humble what size bar u running in the back.

I was going to use some 944 but with the Gwd rear sway bar mounts and our 901 front traverse it is not a good fit. The 944 seem shorter then the beetle ones by an inch or so. If I have to use the 944 I need custom endlinks at about 5 inches or so.

Thinking the beetle may be a better fit but can I trouble u to measure the short length so I can compare.

Rear IRS conversion bits look really nice need to check the price.
A

[graham]

Ordered my uniball set up from Alex :D:D:D, slowly getting all the parts together now.

[-Alex-]

These came out nicely, two setups are ready to go, Beetle with 944 aluarms and Bus T2 with steel arms.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2738/iodb.jpg

[-Alex-]

At the moment, until end of the february, i can sell 1-2 sets for 700€

[jmd]

Alex - is that price for your Beetle to 944 alu arms? With all the hardware? If so, let's talk about me getting one of those sets.
thanks.
jmd

[-Alex-]

Same price applies to aluarms and steel arms.

[-Alex-]

One set being made for JMD :)

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/21/zl98.jpg

[jmd]

I want to tell folks that might be considering this.... Alex has be absolutely fantastic to work with - his communication has been top notch and he has been great to do business with.
if you are nervous at all - don't be, just pull the trigger and get you some of these sexy ass parts!

Thanks Alex!
jmd

[-Alex-]

I can still offer one or two sets less than 800€ before May, but at price 750€, due to a risen cost of aluminum and actual machining time.

As for timetable, usually i'll get the aluminum in 1,5-2 weeks, machining takes time 2-3 weeks. Bolts and uniball joints i'll get at few days.

[-Alex-]

Here is latest kit for JMD. He will get his parts before easter.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/811/vxe2.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/823/0de6.jpg

[-Alex-]

Special offer! I can make TWO or THREE sets at once for the price of 670€. Single kit 740€. Offer is valid at this month :)

[jmd]

I've said it before and will say it again - Alex has been awesome!
Great communication, good updates - totally worked with me for all of my needs.

DO THIS!!!
jmd

[-Alex-]

I'll say this to all, there is always some little scratches on a hard aluminum like 7075 T6, and i'll usually take all sharp edges (easy to get cuts to your hand) nicely with smooth metal file and small fast spinning dremel carbide sanding band.

Also i add chamfer to pieces at edges where the rod end "comes out", it gives to it more room to move. Machinist is somewhat too busy i guess to make it most of the times.


At my ex work place, they did sometimes a lot of sanding and smoothing to aluminum parts if they were ment to be anodized.

[jmd]

Alex,
Got my parts this weekend.... simply amazing!
Can't wait to get them on the car and see how they fit!
They look just like the images above. Fit and finish is brilliant...

thanks so much,
jmd

[-Alex-]

Again offering one kit at price 690€, this time for 944 aluarms, because i have one leftover pair of 944 aluarm brackets. Delivery time 3-4 weeks.

Exactly like this kit at the picture:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img673/3861/XSaLf5.jpg

[-Alex-]

Still have them.

[-Alex-]

Yup, still have these for 944 aluarms :) Anyone needs?

[-Alex-]

Still have :)

[Tim]

Hi

Do you ship to Hong Kong? If so, how much is the shipping?

Tim