Adjustable 944 front struts on 1303 !!

[Wally]

I just found out this weekend that the front struts of a 944 turbo from 1988/89 or somewhere near those years with the 250 hp engine (latest versions?) have adjustable front struts with adjustable - from the top - yellow Koni shocks!!!!!!!!!
Thus, when you have the front axles of the 944 turbo already, it would be a bolt on situation. All thats left to be done is to change the springs to a softer version (and find a set of those struts of course).
The one I saw was from a damaged car and the strut was damaged as well, but it does have possibilities, I thought to share this with you all.
Does any of you done this already perhaps? Or know what springs can be used best?
Regards,
Walter

[Pillow]

The only issue might be that the upper strut mounts on a SB have 3 bolts while the 944 has 4.

I have some 944 strut assemblies sitting around if anyone wants pics?

[Superman]

The springs aren't the same diameter either so you'd have to cut off the 951 perch and weld on the 1303 one... and as said, use the 1302/3 upper bearing.

Big hammer and hot torch = anything is possible.

[Wally]

Hello Superman,

Thanks for thinking along with me. I' am confused with your suggestion to cut and weld, since the lower spring plates are adjustable, therefore have two (even Alu I think) counter plates, where the springs rest on.
At the top I intent to srew on the 1303 mounting plate which incorporates the bearing and a 944 spring plate/retainer, so I can use the smaller diameter 944-size springs of these assemblies. Other models 994 turbo use wider springs! I'll have to purchase new springs (with the 944 small diameter as described) because of the different load issue though.
Hope I made sense here... If you have a pic of one of these struts, it would help indeed Pillow!

Walter

[verbeekb]

I'm not an expert on the strut suspensions at all, but some of the 944 strut parts actually have 1302/3 part numbers. TopLine has an adapter ball joint if I recall correctly.

Hope it helps,

Brian

[Superman]

Originally posted by Wally
I am confused with your suggestion to cut and weld, since the lower spring plates are adjustable, therefore have two (even Alu I think) counter plates, where the springs rest on.

Ah, you are talking about a set of coil-over struts. My post was in reference to the stock 944 struts. Please disregard.

[Superman]

Originally posted by verbeekb
the 944 strut parts actually have 1302/3 part numbers.

True, the early 924 & 944 have lots of VW part numbers, mostly 1303 & Golf I (Rabbit). The car was originally designed by VW and was going to be a VW until it got too expensive to sell with the VW nameplate. The suspension is basically 1303 with a Rabbit steering rack and components. Most of the electronics are Rabbit also. When looking up part numbers for a 924/944 anything that starts with 113 is a 1303 part, 171 is a Rabbit part, and those that start with a 9 are Porsche parts (that were designed by VW). Most of the Porsche hard core 944 owners don't consider the 83-85 944 a true Porsche, as it isn't. In '86 the car was redesigned by Porsche; changing the engine (early engines were actually Audi engines), dash, suspension, and electronics.

[Richie]

Hello Walter,

I won't go into how to adapt these struts to your 1302/03. But you were also wondering what springs to use as the 944's are too stiff.
A friend of mine has used Citroen Saxo rear springs (used in the Saxo-cup) in his 1302 which he used mainly at the track but sometimes also on the street. These springs were the right length and diameter for his use. Don't know though if they fit the 944 struts.
He could fit 7x16" under his standard width fenders with this setup
I may be able to help you find a pair of these springs.

Hope to have helped.

Cheers,

Richard

[Superman]

Originally posted by verbeekb
TopLine has an adapter ball joint if I recall correctly.


When I visited Topline last year I took one of my ball joints to show him (Jon) and he did show interest but I rechecked with him tonight and a supplier did not go through for this, so www.kerscher.de is the main supplier of these.

You can by springs direct from www.eibach.com in the size and rate you desire.

[verbeekb]

Superman,

The 924 nor the 944 were designed by VW. Like you said, Porsche did use a lot of VW parts in these designs, and funny enough, VW parts are almost always cheaper through Porsche, sometimes less than half the price, A 914 case costs less than half of what VW charges for a mid seventies Type 4 case. All of the 477 and 478 partnumbers are Porsche as well, though I believe the 477/478 numbering system was aimed towards use in the VW organisation at first, and I can't help to see the link with Type 4 here .. partnumbertechnically speaking then .. (new word?!)

The idea was to have VW market (what became) the 924, and Porsche would have a source for cheap bodies for the more upmarket 944. VW had a change in management, and found they really didn't need the 924. Porsche almost saw all of their hard work go down the drain and then decided they would have to produce and market both models under the Porsche name, they struck a deal with VW ( money, fancy dinners, maybe a 'business' trip to Amsterdam.. ;) ) to use the Neckarsulm Audi plant for this purpose. The galvanising equipment for the bodies was put there by Porsche and is also one of the main reasons that Audi started to galvanise their bodies (I think) .. because the stuff was just sitting there .. ( I wonder if they would let me use it ..) :cool: I am still not 100% sure that the 924 really had an Audi engine, because I think it is much closer to a VW LT engine .. but then .. who cares .. because that is about as much as saying "Hey .. that is not a T1 case .. its a T3 case!! Dangit! " .. :) For the 1986 model year the 924 got a "real" Porsche engine (sorry about that .. I know, a reall Porsche engine is not watercooled .. ) .. the 2 liter was tossed in favor of the 2.5L from the 944s, and it became the 924-S. I've driven one of these for a while and it's actually faster than an early 944, nice ones can be found cheap, it's a nice car to play with, they're still ugly, but anyway .. The 944s never had a VW engine though, always a Porsche designed 4 cylinder in either 2.5, 2.7 or 3.0 liter with or without Turbo and/or some extra valves.

Thanks for letting me ramble :)

Brian

[verbeekb]

Superman,

Kerscher must have been where I saw it then, not TopLine, I musta done a lotta surfing this week .. Kerscher also has these neat thingies for the handbrake cables!

Brian

[yetibone]

We are using '85 944 NA struts in our 1302 (with 1303 control arms) They too came with the adjustable yellow Koni inserts.
I installed sport springs from Mid-America Direct. They are the same as Topline's tapered sport springs. I had to doctor them a little to get the right ride height, and use 1302 strut crowns.

I'll give details of how it went together if you want.

Regardless of their adjustability, those inserts will be STIFF!


Yetibone

[Superman]

Originally posted by verbeekb
The 924 nor the 944 were designed by VW. Like you said, Porsche did use a lot of VW parts in these designs

www.924.org

The 924 originated as a contract design by Porsche for Volkswagen, based mainly on readily available parts from the VW parts bin. The car was to be the VW Type 477, also known by the code name EA435. However, VW chose to cancel plans late in the project for financial reasons. Porsche then bought the rights to the design for $60 million ($10 million less than the cost of development) and produced the car, having VW assemble the cars at its Audi plant in Neckarsulm. Initial configuration was a 2.0L inline-4 SOHC engine producing 125hp in the ROW (Rest of World) configuration, 95hp in the US, mated to a 4-speed transmission, with solid front disc and rear drum brakes.

Originally posted by verbeekb
I am still not 100% sure that the 924 really had an Audi engine, because I think it is much closer to a VW LT engine .. but then .. who cares .. because that is about as much as saying "Hey .. that is not a T1 case .. its a T3 case

True, the 924 engine is the same one that came in the (European) VW LT truck and this engine was designed by Audi.

[Wally]

Originally posted by Richie
Hello Walter,

I won't go into how to adapt these struts to your 1302/03. But you were also wondering what springs to use as the 944's are too stiff.
A friend of mine has used Citroen Saxo rear springs (used in the Saxo-cup) in his 1302 which he used mainly at the track but sometimes also on the street. These springs were the right length and diameter for his use. Don't know though if they fit the 944 struts.
He could fit 7x16" under his standard width fenders with this setup
I may be able to help you find a pair of these springs.

Hope to have helped.

Cheers,

Richard


Thanks Richard, but the Saxo springs will probably not fit the smaller diameter 944 T (250hp) adjustable, i.e. coil-over (sorry Superman, English is not my native language..) struts. At the moment I use the rear springs of an old VW Passat from 1978, which are 4 cm lower and just the right amount stiffer.

Also thanks for your experience with the adjustable yellow Koni's Yetibone! Good point, even at the softest position, they are probably a bit too stiff. Hmmm, maybe its earier to go another way to get coil-overs for 944 turbo spindels/axles.
Now, the only advantages of the struts, I described seem to be the adjustability of the ride heigth and the fact they fit at the bottom side of my supention...

Brian,
You must work for the Porsche organisation or are a complete porsche tech-geek (sort of a Dave Darling, lol) to know so much about these parts/history. Thanks for the input.

Walter

[Superman]

Wally, since you are in Europe have you considered the Kerscher coil-over struts that are made for the 1303? If you do and the reason for making your own is due to the cost of them then I do understand.

[yetibone]

Hey Walter,
That is true that the advantage in coil-overs would be adjustable ride height. also, if they are smaller diameter than stock 1302/1303/944 NA springs, then they would give more clearance for wider wheels with deeper backspacing. On our 944 NA struts, the clearance is only about 10mm from the tire to the spring (hope Cup 3's don't flex much!) so if they are of a smaller diameter, then you could find, or have Eibach make springs to fit.

Sounds really trick to me! Good luck if you decide to try it out.


Cheers

Yetibone

[Wally]

Superman,
Well, the reason I haven't got the Kerscher coil-over set-up yet, is definitely costs, but also I have only seen them advertise for the standard 1302/1303 front spindels. Since I use the 944 turbo spindels, I doubt if they make that. Maybe they can put a set together for my car only, but then it will cost even more. I haven't even dare ask yet...
So, there you have it.
Walter