International Club Poll

[NO_H2O]

The VKG has been started by 4-5 people to be a Southeastern US Club. But many people from across the globe have expressed inerest in joining. We don't want to turn anyone away, so we thought we would run a poll to see what the worlds German Look enthusiasts think about how an international club could be organized, or if it should be organized. Please post your opinion.

[zen]

to all:

this is an attempt to "give the people what they want". the original idea of the club was so that us boyz in the SE US could hang together at shows and other places. the club will have many "virtual" benefits as well (merchandise, e-newsletters, website with club shared info, a gl.com forum for the club, sponsors, club discounts at parts and services places, etc). as no_h20 states, i also think it is up to the people outside of the SE US to tell us what they want. many have shown interest in joining even though they are outside of the southeast and in many cases outside of the US. Supply/Demand. if the demand is there, we are willing to supply the structure for the supply.

VKG can (and has for our club's purposes) set germanlook guidelines for the club cars. obviously, by the string on gl.com regarding "what is the german look", there are many opinions. VKG is just setting what the founders agree upon. i think memberships will indicate if people agree with these guidelines or not. but the rules must be followed or there is not cohesion or group look. as all can see, these rules are pretty darn open and will stay that way. no cal-look/resto strict rules here. but no vw ricers pretending to be GL either.

i am all about freedom of expression. VKG is in NO way saying there should be no other clubs. there should be and there will be. what we are asking is, do you guys want to see an international club, or even only a US club stemed from VKG? if so, option #1. if you want to VKG to stay in the south of the US and mind their own business, option #2.

and please give more than a vote. give some feedback here so we can understand why the vote was chosen.

just my $.18. god that was long. sorry.

[Supa Ninja]

VKG,
I've had experience with a club that has chapters before and I hate to say it but it was a bad experience. I did learn a few lessons from the whole ordeal.
1) Its got to be something that everyone involved believes in, ie GL. You don't want Cal Look guys in a Vintage club or vise versa. The rules are very important. I like the VKG's rules, obviously GL but not strict like DKP.
2) Since we are spread very thin, when it gets large enough to have several chapters there needs to adhession to the overall theme but at the same time each chapter will need to be fairly independent so as to survive in their own region. What works in SE USA may not work on the West Coast USA or in the UK for example.
3) and the most important one of them all. Have fun! Its a lot of hard work running a club but when it stops being fun then its time to reevaluate the whole thing. When it works it's a lot of fun.

Anyways when you guys decide if VKG is going to be international, national, or just SE I'd like to be part of it if not I'll start my own and base it off of you guys because whether you know it or not you'all have a very strong foundation for a very fresh club.

Nick

[Pillow]

At first I was all for staying in the SE US region but then have come to see that the VKG is filling a need that no one has addressed before.

I welcome all the GL world to join and from there break it down to regional levels as enough people are interested.

The big push will be to get the word out about the VKG. Stickers, e-mail signatures with the URL, t-shirts at shows, and so forth. Also if we can get some press in the mags then it will blast off as well.

This is a loose club and I think the rules are easy to follow for a GL car, so I cannot imagine too much quibbling over that part.

I say go for it and lets see what happens! :)

GLF,

[zen]

agreed. well let me be the first then. see signature below :D we never did finish defining titles beyond our prez. i will remain a nameless title for now. :silly:

[Alex]

At least make it "Käfer" :hehehe: :hehehe: :hehehe:

And here is your :help: : For the ä press and hold the right alt key and punch in 132 from the number keys to get the ASCII code for it.

About the club or clubs:

There are a few concerns that need to be addressed though:
It would not be a problem to create forums for the different regions of VKG. This way you could have a generic forum to address issues for the entire a club and use the location forums to discuss meets....shows....BBQs.....etc.

We here at Germanlook will support either way you want to go as long as GL.com is supported. The idea is not to start having tech articles, Galleries of parts etc on the website of the local club.
The intention of GermanLook.com was to have the information as a central access point on the net. We are only 6 months old and we have grown quite a bit and would like to continue to do so.
Actually when I think I like the idea better to have independant clubs and have the GL.com the site that puts or ties them together. But that is my personal point of view. We are still trying to find advertisers sponsers for the site and we are trying to find them around the world to give the site a more global feel to it to reach out to everyone and spread the word about GermanLook ACVWs.

We do have a strong group from the UK with cars done and cars being build.There should be enough to get something going there.
It is just a matter of deciding which route to go.

I vote for independant.
The reason is becasue the bigger you get the more complicated it will get.

Alex


Hmm I just thought of something.....what about having national clubs......like VKG for the US, XYZ for the UK and so on?

[vujade]

VKG could be a national club, it would definitely be easier on us as the the first chapter to mail news letters & send out merchandies, etc.

I vote for a national VKG with regional chapters. This way we can serve the issues of our club better.

But this is up to the GL community.... what do you guys think?

[Sandeep]

I vote VKG as the international club and chapters in different regions. This lets people be part of something bigger than themselves.

I want to join too, but don't see a huge GL presence in the GTA YET !

Sandeep

[kdanie]

I aplaud the effort to start a GL club. I did however vote for option #2. I think the VKG rules are too strict for my tastes, I will not quibble though. I will watch from the sidelines and wish you all good luck and hope this makes the GL scene more visible.
ken

[Superman]

I like the rules also; however, I'm on the sidelines too due to rule #1 about the engine.

[craigt-from-atl]

I would be interested in joining the club, but a couple of problems with my 'qualification.' :)

1. I haven't found a new beetle to work on yet. (getting out of credit card and school debts right now)
2. I understand the reasons for the rules, but they might be a bit strict.

After having 4 bent 17" rims on my '97 GTI, and having to buy new ones soon, I don't know that I want to worry as much with my beetle. I happen to like the old stock VW rims w/ the 5 lugs. ;)

Even more, I like the idea of someone rolling up to me and thinking I'm just a 'slow as ship' beetle until I unleash the mighty horses of my Type IV. So that stock stuff might be carried through to the interior also. (in which case I don't qualify there either)

I like these forums, and am learning a lot, so I'm going to continue to hang out here, and if the club gets going, I might like to meet and hang out with you guys too. I can still be a member wanna-be, right? :)

-Craig

*EDIT: I voted for number 1*

[Pillow]

Kdanie writ:
>I think the VKG rules are too strict for my tastes<

How do you mean? Like what would you change? Maybe our rules are missing something, but we considered them fairly loose but still trying to keep with the bare essentials to keep GL. Any input would be appreciated on this.

Craig, Personally I think that we could keep the steel 5 lugs (welded out 6"+) as long as big brakes were behind them. Discs are one of the essentials to the GL.

Again we know GL is hard to define, but if you all see something that is missing or maybe not stated quite right just let us know and we can put it up for debate.

Thanks,

[NO_H2O]

To me (just my thoughts) the first thing that sets a GL apart at first glance is the Porsche style wheels/tires filling the fenders and that low porsche like stance.

[vujade]

I have already stated my thoughts about the definition of a GL car on The definition of a GL car thread (http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29) .

I thought we had some faily loose rules. They are more like guidelines then anything else. We didnt say you had to have Porsche wheels, nor did we say you have to have 17" rims.

But we did say that the car cant be stock looking!
BECAUSE THAT WOULDNT BE GERMAN LOOK, THATS A SLEEPER!

[hot66]

out of interest, my cabrio retains all the stock trim, something I made a point of doing, yet I still class it in the 'German Look' mould due to the performance modifications.

According to the shaved trim rule, cars like mine or the one below can not be accepted

http://195.92.99.16/image/mark7big.jpg

[vujade]

For some reason alot of GL/Euro look cars in the Uk keep their chrome trim.... maybe if the Uk starts a chapter of VKG then can amend that rule :)

[NO_H2O]

Hot66, that is one nice car!! If I had an oval I would keep the trim too. The color goes very well with trim. It's not every day you see a GL Oval. My hat is off to you.

[hot66]

sorry but its not my car, this turbo type4 belongs to UK's Mark Thurston. :) ( see www.lbc2.com )

Imagine the same car but painted gloss black & a cabrio with cup2's & you've got mine :D

[Alex]

What is it you want to do with the club?
Share information? Schedule meetings? Post show dates and organizing cruises?

This is my idea.....instead of having seperate sites we could incoorporate a lot here on the main site.
We have the members ride setion. At the moment it is sorted by the year of the car. I would think that we could do it for location.

Articles and galleries are already here as well as show coverages.
Forums can be easily created. This would ensure minimum cost to run a club. It would be just distributing new letters.

It could go further that we could look into a dedicated server and give webspace to the different chapters.
The more I think about it we should close the vote and come up with some ideas first and then vote on the 2 most poplular votes.

There are still too many questions about rules, international, national or even independant clubs. I think this really needs to be discussed more before we can all make an educated decision.

What do you guys think?

Just my thoughts...

Alex

[NO_H2O]

That is a good idea. It would not be the first time a group had to take a step back and regroup.

[Wally]

Alex,
I like your idea.
Vujade,
I think that what you call a 'sleeper' can definitely be also called a German Look! I thought that the thead 'what is the definition of..' had pretty much sorted that out.

Besides, the guy that would like his car to be build as an GL (in the future), should also be able to join. Supporting the filosophy behind it should be more important than 'rules'. Thats just my opinion of course.
Walter

[kdanie]

Adrian, I haven't been on this topic for a few days, sorry for the delay in answering your question.

I consider my project a GL but I don't fit these rules:

I will have the chrome side trim, just so I don't have to spend the time filling the holes! I want to drive this damn thing!

My paint will not be Euro influenced. I am planning on painting it "Honduras Maroon", it's a 50's custom color that was popular in the U.S. It's a dark maroon without any metalic.

My wheels are from a 912 but they are steel, if you don't look at the crest on the hubcap (and know what you are looking at) you would think they were VW wheels. I may get some 16" Porsche wheels for track use.....

I guess my car qualifies as a sleeper/stealth GL, unless you look closely you would never know it had so much Porsche stuff motivating/stopping it.

Do I feel hurt because I don't qualify? Not really, I'm building this thing to drive the wheels off it, not show it.

ken

[Chris Percival]

All these rules sound a bit DKP ish.. I thought this (http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29) thread more or less ended up with people saying there are no fixed rules?

[Panelfantastic]

I didn't vote, but I do have an opinion.
The club is a great idea (I want to be accepted).
Rules,guidelines,qualifications are very important but need to be a little flexible (and they do seem to be).
You could be a member based on your love of the GL style regardless of what "GL" state your current ride is at. (you will soon give in to the dark side anyway :D )
Should be international, a true fellowship regardless of geography. The chapter buisness sounds a little to fragmenting, gets away from the family feeling the club is supposed to be about to begin with.
If you want to share regional info, just start a regional sub-forum.

Just some random observations, you can throw rocks now.
:silly:

[zen]

all, great points of discussion and everyone has been read and discussed among us. we are having some chats to figure out what to do. we already have some ideas, we just need to firm them up.

understand one thing before hard opinions are formed about VKG (like there is of DKP or BKCruisers). these are first draft "rules". they were intended as a starting point. we view these more as guidelines than rules. as many will still have rides under construction and it is hard to met that criteria when you don't even have a car to drive. a car is not a MUST and meeting EVERY ONE of the guidelines is not a MUST. but without some standards, how is the club to have an image.

we have a few of the guidelines we are going to tweak based on feedback from all of you. and thanks for that. that said, we will have some things that we insist on to maintain the club image (and believe me, i am one of the biggest supporters of freedom of expression there is).

don't get hung up on the "rules". not just yet anyway. it is more the club structure and presence we were interested in feedback on. and i think we have some valuable input now. besides, based on the "what is germanlook" thread, there is NO way that everyone is going to meet the rules or be happy with them. there is no intent to make EVERYONE happy, just the majority.

look for updates in the next few days!!!!!

GL forever!!!!!!!!!!

[vujade]

I agree with everything Zen has said in the previous post.
We did not start this club with the intention of pleasing the masses.

If we did, why not take it a step further & leave it open to all styles of aircooled VW's.
What about going further then that and allowing all vw's including new ones too?
We could even go further that and allow all makes & models of cars...

so where does it end?
where should we set the limits?

there always has to be some rules or guidelines to a club,
otheriwse you would be open to anyone & there are already plenty of VW clubs like this around the world for people to join.

We dont want to leave anyone out that wants to join, but at the same time we are trying to set a overall look & feel for our club.

I am sorry in anyone takes offense to anything we have said or done. It is unintentional.

Please be assured that we are not trying to say that this is the only way you can German Look your car. But is the way, we as the founders of VKG prefer our cars to look.

Also as stated above, if you do not fit the VKG guidelines now but intend to build your car to fit the VKG guidelines, you are more then welcome to join now while your car is being built.

[Pillow]

After reading the VKG rules again... They seem very reasonable to me.

Even Ken qualifies with 15" Porsche wheels (no clarification on steel or alloy).

The only item I can see some good debate on would be the chrome trim. As it seems the European crwod might like this look... Hey if you like to have your VW look like a 1971 Buick blinding you with chrome refections that is cool! ;) JK Maybe gold plat the rest of the car like the Low Rider crowd? LOL

I think there is an article in the tech section on blacking out trim if you do not want to cover up the holes.

Personally I think chrome does not fit the GL look as you do not see most of the European cars fitted with this stuff. Mostly plain clean cars. Especially the later Porsche cars. Chrome bumpers are cool on VWs, but then again there are few alternatives.

I guess it kind of falls into what is considered the GL.

Again I think VKG need to get together and really decide what the scope of the club should be. Then go from there.

[zen]

i think we are done here then. time to close the thread and we will post an update as soon as one is available. thanks to EVERYONE for the input.

FWIW, if i had an oval, i would not be deleting the trim either. :)