86 944 trailing arms on a Ghia

[karmann72]

I am looking a a set of 86 944 alloy trailing arms with disc brakes for my 72 Ghia and am wondering if the track will be pushed out too far. I am guessing that I will have to use a high offset wheel (porsche C2?) but would like to know if anyone has any experience or opinions on this?

Thanks

[Sandeep]

Hiya,

With 86 alloy arms your width per side will increase by 22mm, same as stock IRS arms with the early 944 NA ebrake components. The advantage to the early arms is weight savings but I am unsure of how much.

I don't have any experience with ghias but there are members here who do.

Hope this helps.

Sandeep

[SprintStar]

Originally posted by Sandeep
Hiya,

With 86 alloy arms your width per side will increase by 22mm, same as stock IRS arms with the early 944 NA ebrake components.

Sandeep

Does this mean that with 86 alloy arms and 944 brakes, my increase in track is still limited to 22mm? If so, I'm going to jump for joy!!!! That's one question I've been burning to ask but never got to...

Hehe...

Sprint.

[karmann72]

Bump

[Humble]

I just did the '86 944 aluminum trailing arm swap on my bug, and the difference is more than 22mm. it's more like 74mm. i'm not sure if even c2's would work with this setup under a ghia, either way it would be very close. the rear hub face on my beetle is 1-2" from the outer edge of the fender as you look at it from behind.

also i'm not sure what the back spacing is on c2's but if it's more than 6" it'll be a tight fit.

[Alex]

Humble,

are you sure you have 86 AL arms and not 87 and later ones?

74mm track increase per side sounds like 87 and later ones to me.

Alex

[Stuart]

74 mm is for 87 and later 944!!!

[Humble]

the trailing arms i have came off an 86. they're aluminum, and required 21" axles. they are the 74mm increase arms.

i thought all the aluminum arms increased the track 74mm, and only the earlier steel arms increased by 22mm.

[Sandeep]

The 86 AL arms have a 22mm increase per side. If you take stock beetle arms and add the bolt on 944 N/A brakes, they will increase the width by 22mm also.

This has been measured and verified when I helped Alex out with his floorpan a while back. He has the 86 AL arms, and I have the stock beetle arms with 944 N/A brakes. Both increase the width by 22mm each side.

Sandeep

[SprintStar]

Hello Sandeep,

I have a '73 Super with stock Beetle arms and 944 N/A brakes. Yes, I have 22mm increase in track on each side.

How, if I switch the Beetle arms for '86 AL arms, will my track increase or remain the same? Of coz I'll be using the same 944 N/A brakes.

And if I put on the 944 Turbo brakes? I don't expect the track to increase much as the caliper mounting is the same and the rotor is only 2mm wider?

Thanks for any input! I've been meaning to get '86 AL arms on, but I'm afraid of the width increase.... :confused:

Sprint.

[Sandeep]

From the measurements I have taken, the width increase should be the same. You can swap the beetle arms for the 86 AL arms and you should have no increase in trace width with the 944 N/A brakes.

With the Turbo brakes you should not have any further increase with the AL arms. Its the disk thickness that is 24mm for the rear and the part of the rotor that mates to the hub should be the same thickness as the 944 N/A rotor so you should be good to go.

I will be doing this same swap winter 2003.

Sandeep

[Bugnutz]

Humble-

It would seem that all 1986 944 aluminum trailing arms are not created equal. I have a pair from an '86 and they are also the wide track.

Regards, Mark.

[MattKab]

The '86 Aluminium arms when fitted to my '03 gave a track increase each side.

The '86 steel arms gave the same track increase.

I have a pair of each.

As I posted before (sorry to repeat) the hubs that came with the '86 ali arms are the same as those that came with the '86 steel arms. The discs were the same also.

However, :o the hubs that came with the steel arms had longer studs and a 21.5mm spacer between the disc and roadwheel.

I fitted the 944 steel arms to my Bug.

And then I fitted the wheel studs from the hubs off the 951 ali arm into the hubs that came with the steel arms and left off the spacer.

NO INCREASE IN TRACK(over stock at the hub/wheel 'face)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/85835.jpg

7.5*17et52mm with 225/45ZR17 :silly:

The hubs are the same, I had to swap the studs as I couldn't remove the hub nuts from the ali arms. They're 'bullied' tight rather than secured with a split pin. 'Best undone before arm is removed from the 951. Porschapart take note of this...

Porsche wheel offsets and different track widths can be defined into two catagories, ABS and NON-ABS.

Superman, back me up on this! ;)

To put it simply:-

WE TAKE THE HUGE WHEELS OFF A PORSCHE THAT HAD ABS AND FIT THEM TO THE NON-ABS (Porsche or VW) HUBS/SUSPENSION AND THEY WILL FIT UNDER OUR WINGS (in some* cases)

And remember- BREMBO 4POTS WERE NEVER FITTED (by Porsche) TO ANY STEEL ARMS.

Matt

[Steve C]

Hi

This an old post but I thought I would add my findings. I measured drum face to drum face on my 1303 which had type 3 rear drums, it measured 1405 mm when I fitted 86 alloy arms it now measures 1490 mm face to face. The CV bolt flange is about 10 inches (5 inches per side) further out, but owing to the short 86 stub axle lenght I didint get a 10 inch increase in track.

Steve

[pantswagen]

does this mean if i have 88 non turbo alloy arms, with thw wider hub and disc
-i can fit the hub from any of either the steel arm or 86 only to them
-and run the early -or a 993 disc
and have the track come in 22mm?

that would save me having to get some new arms???

[wrenchnride247]

The '88 ali arms are the same on both turbo and non-turbo. The ali's have different bearings than the early steel arm's. You might have a problem with stubs, rotors, and e-brake shoes fitting. The late ali arms are wider in the casting not the hub. So you will add track no matter what stub's you try and use (the late ali's add the most track :() .

[pantswagen]

the steel armed hubs from a 924s/944 fit bug axles -they have bug splines
-i just tried a bug axle in both a 1985 and a 87 turbo hub -alloy arms
-and they dont fit
alloy hubs are fine splined -steel armed are fluted splines, -the same as bug

the steel arm 944's use the exact same arm as a bug -the hubs are the same -drilled differently 'for arguments sake'
-they then as described above, have a 22mm factory spacer fitted
-they say the track -with this spacer is the same as an early 944 alloy 1985 arm and disc /hub
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pantswagen/IM000195.jpg~original
-so realistically, an alloy arm is 22mm wider than a steel arm
-the leter 87 onwards 944 have a wider hub - widerdisc -extra 25mm per side

-so if as matt says, you simply remove the stock spacer of the 944 steel arms -the track is the same -use bay window studs
-ps a brembo will catch a fuch -you NEED 7mm spacer -at least

[MattKab]

Hi Paul, I assumed the hubs were the same, they look it :eek: Like I said the hubnut's are still on my Ali arms, on the shelf for nearly 4 years.. I would have them on the car if Day Moulding wings weren't so damn fine. :bawling:

I'm currently closer to stock hieght with 23.5mm TB's and -1deg camber with a 215/45. Preparing for T4 power soon :cool: 'Drives fantastic!

T25 wheel studs are available new from VW not dear.

Matt

[pantswagen]

http://speedways.co.uk/apec/list/porsche/5.htm

-here you can see with the rear disc spec the difference in the 85/6 only discs and the later typpppppppppe

-late 944 disc 100mm
-85/6 alloy arm - 70mm

-30mm increas in track
-86 arm is same as steel arm with 22mm spacer

-so 87 alloy arm = 52mm wider track than bug
-86 if its the same as steel with 22
-simply increases the track 22mm
?

-also note steel arm disc is 289 by20mm

-where as 86 alloy arm is 299 by 24mm -4 pot brembo

-also worth noting that the late 911 uses the same disc? -299 by 24 -but as standard is drilled?

[pantswagen]

now i think i have answered my own question
-i have the adaptors that take these arms to monblock bremboo's
-now i reckon i will need boxter 's' calipers rather than the smaller boxter ones, as they seem 289 by 20
ho hum -does it mean i can do either tho?
-ie if i get the small engine boxter calipers -fit the 289 20
-if i get boxter or 996 - get the drilled 911/964/

-coolio
anyone have any calipers for me?

[vwdevotee]

I just did the '86 944 aluminum trailing arm swap on my bug, and the difference is more than 22mm. it's more like 74mm. i'm not sure if even c2's would work with this setup under a ghia, either way it would be very close. the rear hub face on my beetle is 1-2" from the outer edge of the fender as you look at it from behind.

also i'm not sure what the back spacing is on c2's but if it's more than 6" it'll be a tight fit.

With narrow Al trailing arms, would it be possible to fit the wheels and tires under the Ghia wings? What offset/backspacing would be needed? What Porsche wheels would work? Any pictures?

[vwdevotee]

This is a pretty old thread, but I'm also looking to fit the '86 951 trailing arms under Ghia wings. The trailing arms have the bump stops which as I recall from a Superman thread confirms that they are the narrow arms. What size wheel can I fit, and what offset should I look for (again, under stock Ghia wings).

Thanks a lot.

P.S. Alloy arms are pretty. Is it weird that I what to polish them to a mirror shine and clear coat them like that?