VW Trends German Look Shootout

[vujade]

Just stopped off at the news stand and picked up the new June VW Trends magazine.

Inside their is a German Tuner shootout with 6 GL cars from different tuners in Germany including Tafel, Gerd Weiser, & 4 other German Tuners.

Very cool article with specs on each cars motors, the weight of the car, performance for 0-60mph, 0-100mph, 50-75mph, HP & Torque.

Plus their is also a little info about each car and how it feels, sounds and performs.

Btw, there is also a Big Wheel fitment guide for adapting 17"-19" wheels to Air Cooled VW's with Torsion bars & Strut front ends and IRS & Swing Axle rear ends.

Way 2 Go VW Trends!

[NYBugman1972]

Sounds informative. I can't wait for mine to show up.

It's also cool to see what numbers these cars are putting out. now the German Look community has something to go by.

kudos and huzzah to VWT!

[Sandeep]

Thanks for the information Joe !

Normally I stay away from VWT but this looks like an issue to pick up.

No more guessing as to how the car will perform with XXX amount of HP.

Sandeep

[vujade]

What was nice to see is the actual weight of each car, their Hp/Torque and how they perform in the real world.

Very surpising to me was the fact that one car was heads above the rest in 0-60 & 0-100mph times.

It was Tafels 1985 Bug that weighed 2000 lbs!

Engine Specs

Discplacement: 2733cc (82mm Scat crank x 103 JE p/c)
Rods: Pauter
Cam: Pauter 345 degree & Pauter 1.48:1 rockers
Heads: T4 2CU by Tafel/Becker
Valves: 47 x 40
CR: 11.8:1

Performance

Horsepower: 226 at 5900rpm
Torque: 201 ft/lbs
0-60mph: 4.49 seconds
0-100: 11.52 seconds



This was by no means the lightest car. It weighed 300lbs more then the lighest car, just had the most HP.

[zen]

very cool. looking forward to it. nice to see the appropriate shift in "what" they report on the cars as well. when was the last time you saw a resto-custom article with performance measurements. glad they are reporting the right thing in the right way. is kathy's column in there? seems like the right issue. just don't remember if she said june or july or what.

[TitoRay]

Yeah, awesome job by VW Trends for the attention to the German Look. An article that they had many issues back about their favorite "looks" for VW's gave me the impression that there was going to be more and more features for the German Look. I haven't read the article yet but based on vujade's report, it seems they have already gone beyond my expectations.:)

[vujade]

Zen, Kathys article will be in Julys Trends.

Titoray, yes the article was by far one of the best an american VW mag has done.

I was also impressed by the bid wheel fitment guide they did in the same issue. They really did alot of homework on the wheels sizes, tire sizes, offsets and modifications to fit big wheels on all different types of VWs. IT'S ABOUT DAMM TIME!!!

[Sandeep]

WTF ?!?

Looks like I'll have to wait till April 22nd to get the copy at Chapters.

Looks like us Canucks are a little bit behind when it comes to getting mags at the news stands ! :D

Sandeep

[kdanie]

Sandeep, don't feel bad, I have a subscription and it shows up at home a week or 2 after it is on the stands.
ken

[lightning bug]

mine too. bout time they did this article. I probably wont get the issue though. I just moved and I won't recieve any of mine June mags. I guess I could call them and ask.

[Shadowbug]

I quit subscribing, in canada we get our subsriptions a month late, you can buy next months magasine before you get last months. it really sucks.

[zen]

it is not much better here. mine is always about a week behind. pretty annoying. i remember back in high school it was about 2 weeks ahead. they seem to be getting slower in their old age.:behind:

[NYBugman1972]

I got the issue yesterday. It's pretty good. Most cars did 0-60 in 5 seconds +/- and two cars did it in 4 +/-.

I found it to be more of a German Tuner shootout, not a German Look shootout, as 2 cars are running 15" wheels (2.0L and cookie cutters) and one car is running a staggered 14/15" steel wheel combo.

Engines ranged from a 2110 T1 to a 2840 T4 to a 2306 T5 OxyBoxer.

All in all, I like the article. It's something different than the Cal Look, which is always refreshing.

If you guys want, I'll scan the article and put them up.

[vujade]

I would say that even the cars with 15" wheels fit into the German Look. They are Porsche Wheels and most of the cars are running large T4's.

[Pillow]

Dang I actually have to buy a magazine after all these years!

Dude 15" wheels are cool sometimes. It is not the size that matters, it is how you use it! LOL

[NYBugman1972]

If I sounded like I was against 15" wheels, allow me to clarify.

The German Look is mostly known in the US as having large diameter wheels, therefore the small diameter wheels would fail to put it into the GL category.

Personally, I believe that these cars are greater than the sum of their parts. So, excuse me if I sounded like a Cal-looker for a moment:D

Big wheels or small, you just can't argue with performance!

[Wally]

Shame I can't get VWTrends here anywhere..
Looks like the article resembles the article in VW Speed a few years ago. Did the 105x82 engine of Boxer shop in his orabge 1303 and really big wheels particpate also?
I remember the Willibald car with 2366 (103x71) made 188 hp. The dyno that day was a little on the low side, since all cars seemed to perform less than they measured on other dyno's.
Also the Gerd Tafel car was reported to 'drive like a modern 911, but faster'. Damn, I almost can recite that complete article from VW Speed.
For me it was also a strong indication that EFI was the way to go.
Walter

[vujade]

Wally I believe it was a reprint of the VW Speed article.

It is just good to hear that a US based mag is finally getting a clue :silly:

[NYBugman1972]

Yeah, it's an article from VW Speed, and it's the same one you're thinking of Wally.

[vujade]

Here is the specs on Boxer Shop's 1973 1303 SB

Engine Displacement: 2840cc (82mm Scat crank x 105mm JE p/c)
Case: VW Type 4
Rods: Porsche 912
Cam: Schleicher 324-degree at 1mm, stock rockers
Heads: Type 4
Valves: 47 x 38
CR: 8.5 to 1
Ignition: Bosch
Carbs: Dual Weber 48IDF's w/ encased filters
Exhaust: 1 3/4" Ahnendorp (BAS) stainless steel
Clutch: Sachs heavy duty
Trans: VW Type AT, tall gears

PERFORMANCE
Horsepower: 176 at 5940rpm (62HP per liter)
Torque: 192 ft/lbs at 4560rpm (67.6 ft/lbs per liter)
0-60mph: 5.91 seconds corrected
0-100mph: 16.15 seconds
50-75mph: 4.80 seconds
Weight: 2200lbs (full tank of gas)

COMMENTS
Mille Miglia wheels, 17x7.5 and 18x8 (205/40-17 & 225/40-18 tires). Starts as well as a stocker. As is often the case with 105mm pistons, the latter make a metalic sound. Starts without problem when warm. Continous power always there. Deep and pleasant sound of the engine. Quiet in town. Accelerates quickly, a surprise considering the weight of the car and the wheels. 2850rpm at 62mph in fourth gear.

Stock differential not up to par anymore. Slight oil leak on one of the cylinders. Good oil pressure. Oil temp between 215 and 230 degrees F. Cooling of the case may need to be improved. Engine nicely assembled and looks great.

*experts from June 03, VW Trends Magazine

[Wally]

Thanks guys, that saves me from the hassle of finding a VWT copy :-)

BTW, I hope Julian (lightning bug) reads the article as well, since he thougth that a reliable N/A 2,7 ltr could not be made (thread in the transmission forum on the recognision of a 915 trans). The 2,7 ltr car of Gerd Tafel proves oherwise, since that car is already quite 'old' and has driven a lot of hard miles. Plus that car doesn't even have Nickies and still gets 226 Hp. Mind you that these power figures are german DIN horsepower. The american bhp is up to 10% less. That would bring that engine to about 250 bhp!

About a year later, the same sort of test has been done on 2 liter engines (both type 1 and type 4) and also, again about a year after that for 1,8 ltr engines (also type 1 and type 4's). Very interesting results.

Hopefully VW Trends does a reprint+translation of those articles as well.

Walter

[Wally]

Joe,
VWT must have translated the VW speed article not entirely well: the metallic sound the engine made when cold was considered to be 105mm typical, because of tilting pistons (!). It did not strike back to the nice idle running...
Like I said, knowing that article almost by hart...:-)
Walter

[lightning bug]

Boy Wally, you really like running your mouth. EITHER

1) You are blind
2) You can't read
3) You get off on changing people's words around

If you read the post ,obviously you haven't. I said that the 2.7 is"not the best choice." Never said "it couldn't be made." I am finished with that thread. Now you want to start another debate? Wally please, don't start anything if you can't get the facts straight or you can't quote a previous post correctly. 2.7L T4, so what? I've seen a 2276 turbo T1 with 115,000 miles, street driven and raced numerous times, and only replaced the bearings. People say that 2276's, or any T1 with 94's for that matter, will never see 100,000 mi. It can be done and it has. And a 2.7 T4 can be done. My point......Are either of these engine's practical for the street? I still say no, and I have a 2276 turbo street car. There is a certain well-known T4 builder that doesn't recommend this displacement be built for the street either. What else do you want to talk about? Just wondering what your deal is. Its fine if I said what you stated, but I didn't. A little advise.... You can't quote it, unless it was said.

[vujade]

OK guys, relax now.
Dont turn this into STF.

Julian, Wally has obviously misquoted you, but I am sure he didnt do it on purpose.

[Wally]

Sorry Julian, but I didn't mean to quote you. Maybe it got to me somehow that you spoke negatively about my upcoming project, a 2,7 ltr type 4... Also I think you overreact a little here and therefore I agree with Vujade to not let this go out of control. If I have offended you or you think I misquoted you in any way, I sincerely apologize.
By saying that you think that a Type 4 2,7 ltr is not the best choise for the street, you did give me the impression you think it can't be done. The VW-Speed article 3 years ago triggered my 2,7 ltr project back than. That combined with your recent remark on the 2,7 ltr was the reason for this reaction. I hope you understand.
Now with the data you just gave on your big type 1 turbo and N/A engines - who I assume drive fine - doing more than 100 thousand miles and you say that you still dont think they are not the best choise for the street either, I get even more confused. To me any tuned aircooled engine that drives great and does that milage, I would say they are a great choise for the street.. But hey, we obviously have a difference of opinion on more than one thing, which is no problem for me. Lets just learn from each others experiences. At least I am sure I could learn from your experiences, hearing the engines you have assembled in the past.
No harm done here. Hope you feel the same.
Sorry for the lengthy reply, but I felt it was necessary this time.
Walter

[lightning bug]

I was a little fired up too about the other thread and was still when I read this. I don't want to make enemies. I apologize. This isn't the STF. It just seemed like you were provoking more. Bad judgement on my part to escalade it even more. Let's put it behind us. Again I apologize.