1303 Strut options.. Research

[LOAF]

I am in the process of the famous 944 brake swap.. started with a late conversion for the front but due to Strut issues found parts for an early conversion.. As I wait for the last of parts I am faced with issues.. as far as struts..
Based on my research.. here is what I have found and have questions on..

1) Maxxstrut.. about 400, all inclusive.. allows for Ride Height adjustment.. Depending on year from 3-5 inches.. These don't allow for any dampening changes.. Would like to now if can be rebuilt with a different insert or has to be TOPLINE only.. This would allow for a Strut insert with dampening adjustablility..

2) LA Performance.. about 380 Pounds equals roughly 500 bucks, maybe a little more.. This allows for ride height changes.. range unsure of.. As well as Dampening.. Needs orignal beetle parts for the Top Strut mount, believe.. Unsure of what name brand insert is used. Kinda expensive.. Not sure if progressive springs and if tappered..to fit larger widths under wings..

3) Kercher Strut.. Believe from GCC.. Can't read german but from peoples posts seems like they are as adjustable as LAP strut... Not sure if they are all inclusive, thus not requiring any of the old beetle parts.. (Top strut mount). Not sure if springs are tapered and if springs are progressive rate..

4) Utilizing superbeetle parts.. along with topline springs. Some strut inserts that are adjustable.. Would allow for dampening changes, but height set by size of spring..

My intent is to be able to change height due to different seasons that I may need to ride in.. as well as road conditions.. Also I want to participate in Xcross and would like to have the dampening adjustable to better tune the suspension.. Don't plan on winning but having safe fun.. along with learning more about suspension tweaking..

If anyone has info on above subject appreciate it.. along with by 78 vert..
Alex

[juse]

If you are going to do drive autocross or anything where you might want to alter adjustments finely and quickly, then the best way is to obtain struts with 2 1/4" springs and threaded platforms.
I believe Kercher sell these, but you can make a pair of your own quite easily and much cheaper. Take a look of these done by Niko Niittymäki for his rallysprint 1302. http://www.geocities.com/aikakultaracing/tolpat.jpg

Justin

[LOAF]

Juse,
Thanks for the reply can you ellaborate further on what is required.. Any welding.. or is this a clamp on deal.

Also any one else have experience.. Please.
Alex

[juse]

For the DIY coil-overstruts you need;
-bottom ends from the original struts
-a length of tube that has 2"OD and 2mm wall thickness
-a threaded tubekit for springplatforms
-Golf I/II inserts
-basic welding skills
-a friend that can machine you the fixing bits
All this needs only minor modifications and is quite straightforward task for a DIY mechanic, and the best thing is the low price of this all!

Justin

[LOAF]

Spoke to Topline yesterday about their Maxxstrut...

From the conversation, he indicated that any Rabbit, or Golf insert could work with minor modification.. I assume then that some Koni with adjustable dampening could work.. This would allow me to get my project off the ground and when the time comes to either replace the insert from too many miles or time to hit the track comes, I can then switch to an adjustable insert..

Anyone know the estimated price for a set front and rear.. and a good location to get them.. for the future.. Has anyone put enough miles on their Maxxstruts and done the above.. How was the ride, and adjustablility..
Thanks..
Alex

[Jeza]

Loaf

When I picked up my 944 brakes in the weekend, I also collected some adjustable 944 struts, only the lower spring platform is adjustable, the inserts look like they might be Koni sports. I belive someone here used these in a brake change/ suspension upgrade?

I'm still to figure out if it will all work, as I have to collect the bottom arms, then I can mock it all up and see if my ride height is good and suspension travel adequate.

But another alternative perhaps?

Jeremy

[LOAF]

Jeza..

Sounds great.. I have a couple of questions for you.. as far as which setup... I had 87 944 spindles that I was going to use.. Ended up not using them due to the following reasons..
-Lack of strut options.. LAP does have a set up that can be used.. I think its Type4boy.. Real nice guy.. and responded to my emails.. Also can use the 944 set up but spring rate is different and some issues with the top mount.. Can't remember exactly.. Plenty of guys here explained the reasons.. Just do a search.. for LOAF or Humble.. He was also doing this and completed..
Another issue was the speedo.. you can drill a hole but since I don't have access to any equipment.. :(
Not to discourage if you have the parts.. I was going to go this route.. But Type4boy was on vacation and during the weekend that he was out.. I got anxious and started searching for other options.. I ended up finding a guy who would sell me 84 944 spindles and hubs for a $120.00 so I said hell with it..
If you are going with the earlier option.. Many choices.. LAP, Kerscher sell springs, and coilover.. and Topline.. Maxxstrut.. This is the option that I am going with.. From talking to them over the phone, very friendly.. I chose this for the height adj and the all in one package.. The other options you must retain the top strut mount assembly.. and a couple of other parts.. With the maxx, it also utilizes a modified rabbit/golf insert.. Not sure what modified means "per conversation with Topline" but figured it ment sawing something off.. to make it work.. This is good because down the road I can put Koni's and have not only height but damping adjusted.
Once I get these I will transfere the calipers and get them mounted on my vert.. Weather Pending..

Hope that helps..
It was tought finding info on the struts.. Many, many people have gone down these roads.. depends on time and money.
LAP setup was like 400 pounds.. Kesher was like 400-500 euro and maxx 400ish.. plus local, CONUS..

LOAF

[Jeza]

My 944 brakes are from an 85 car. They are the single sliding calliper. I still personally think that these brakes are overkill for most beetles, but it is the easiest way to fit Porsche wheels and have a brake upgrade.

Most other options would cost similar amounts (for me esp being in NZ... a long way from a lot of the aftermarket parts) and not have the quality of braking or the ease of standard replacement parts.

Also the reason for me fabricating the struts/ using something existing. The freight and tax combined with the Pasific Peso increases the price enormously.

However this has bought in a whole lot of unknowns, as described above. Stuff I guess I'll only find out when it's bolted together.

All fun and games :D

Cheers
Jeremy

[MattKab]

Kerscher adjustable struts that have full range adjustable lower spring platforms. They come with Koni yellow bottom adjustable inserts. The earlier version had a helper spring but mine are the most recent, 80mm single, progressivley wound Eibach springs. Quality is amazing and the springrate feels perfect. Also uses VW Golf/951 strut bolts, one of which has eccentric washers for camber adjustment. Uses stock top bearing.

Worth every penny/cent/pfenig.

TUV approved which is the best bit :)

Matt

Pic is of the earlier 02/03 strut from the M7 site:

http://www.machine7.co.uk/Cart/shopimages/355-30-1.jpg

[MattKab]

It's an optical illusion that makes them look tapered, they are 8cm straight and have a progressive springrate.

[juse]

I bet those are the best you can buy for your Beetle, if you can afford...

Justin

[LOAF]

What's the exact price on those struts... From emailing those guys.. I was unsure it those are the ones he was talking about..
Thanks
Alex

[Stuart]

He Mattkabb, I've got my Kerscher struts today and I must say they look absolut GOOOOOOOOOOD. The quality is perfect, the best on the market and worth evey penny. Can't wait to round up my brake conversion and hit the road.
Mattkabb, did you recieve my mail? I've send a mail but no answer. Greetings from Holland to all.:silly:

[vujade]

Does Kerscher make that same adjustable strut with the yellow konis & progressive eibach springs for the 1302???

[Stuart]

check the site from kerscher at
http://www.kerscher-tuning.de/cgi-bin/shop.pl?page=frameset.html&shopid=104292885453361.

Greetings and good luck.

[vujade]

Stuart

I checked the site this moring, but couldnt decipher whether they offered that setup for the 1302 or not...

Maybe some of you Europena Guys can help me out with that.

[Stuart]

Hello Vujade, I believe you need the 1302 setup (3 bolt strut). I can tell you they sell this setup. It costs 547 euro. If you need translation help or so just let me know. Greetings from Holland.

[vujade]

Stuart

Thanks very much. I may take you up on that when I am ready to buy them.

[vujade]

mattkep

what do you think of the ride with the Kerschers?

Is it too stiff or can you adjust it softer to?

Do tell please!!!

[MattKab]

vujade, The ride is phenominal. Comfort level is very high, which is desirable with low-pro tires!

The pic in my earlier post clearly shows a 1302 strut.

No spring in the world has an adjustable spring rate. A springs 'stiffness' is a product of material and dimension.

Spring stiffness (uniform open coiled helical spring within elastic range)

= Force / Compression, measured in Nm^-1.

This is linear (y = mx + c), i.e. double the force, the amount of compression will double too. This can be applied to the springs used with most aftermarket struts. This much can be cofirmed by appearence.

The stiffness of the Eibach springs, however, is second order (y = x^2 + x), due to the change in the geometry of the coiling. The Force / Compression curve will show that the rate of change of compression decreases with respect to an incremental increase of applied force. This makes all the difference!

The height of the lower spring plate is adustable, this only determines the height of the vehicle at equilibrium. On the road, the amount of spring compression is determined by the mass and position of the centroid (the point where the mass of the car is believed to act) Move the centre of gravity and back and forth and see the front and rear spring compressions alter. e.g. Move the centroid forward, raise the front lower spring platforms to compensate for the resultant change in stance and you've just softened the response of the front-end (after you have increased the damping (by adjusting the size of the orifice in the valve))

Mattkep?

MattKab! :silly:

[vujade]

Thanks MattKab.

Sorry about the name :D

[MattKab]

No worries! :D

[Rjohnson009]

Hi Justin,

From your description of the adjustable struts, sounds like you have done this before. My first question would be getting the parts. For my 72 super, I was leaning toward using the Civic spring kit from Vdubcustoms, but seeing you post, I am not considering going the route that you describe.

do you have any more details about where to get the parts in the parts list that you describe? I believe I could handle the welding with a few pictures to go by.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rick

[Jeza]

Rick

Minimal/ no welding required - check this link out for a description
http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/suspension/jjd.html

My lower stop (for the threaded body for the bottom spring platform) sits at the bottom of the strut- but then I've got a 350mm long spring - you may find yours fits differently.

Cheers
Jeremy

[Uber Affe]

Can anyone make out that site at all?
I speak read and write 4 languages. None of them are german and I don't even know the $ exchange.
Does Kersher have an english version?
I have a 74 1303 in need of suspension.

[MattKab]

Can anyone make out that site at all?
I speak read and write 4 languages. None of them are german and I don't even know the $ exchange.
Does Kersher have an english version?
I have a 74 1303 in need of suspension.

Try one of your languages here: 0049 8727 968812

;)