What do you use at high speed?

[SilverBullet]

With all the articles on good brakes and suspension setup, when travelling at speeds in excess of 200km/h down the clear highway, what do you guys do for down-force or to keep the bug as stable as possible? I don't really see spoilers on germanlook cars in Europe, where they travel at warp speeds! I need enlightenment:)

[Superman]

The lowered stance of a Bug will do a lot to help keep the wind from getting under it and thus reducing lift. I have a Porsche 911 "whail-tail" replica on my Super but I doubt I've ever been fast enough for it to have an effect.

[Wally]

Hello,
Don't be fouled by all the talk about high speeds! Very, very few people drive in excess of 200 km/h with a bug more than once... Going 180 km/h (real km/h that is, not measured with deviating tacho's) is already pushing it from a stability point without a front spoiler like the old Kamei ones.
Just look at the pictures of the German Käfer Cup races that competed in the W4 class (unrestricted aircooled VW engines => large (2,9ltr) type 4's): all were lowered more than street use would allow and had front air dams/spoilers with which they reached over 200 km/h on the straights easy.
Also, it goes without saying really that all the front suspension bushings, shocks, steering components etc. must be in 'new' and/or upgraded condition.
Drive safe!
Greetings,
Walter

[SilverBullet]

Thanks Wally for the input. I was curious as my car's steering feels "light" at 160km/h! I'm using Kamei front spoiler, car is lowered, koni yellows all round at 1/2 hard setting. I think it might be the caster!:)

[vw1303]

It's a ghia but still.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/german.spirit/videos.html

[Sandeep]

He's got a 2.4l 6 in there !

Sandeep

[SilverBullet]

:wowwow: That is one fast ghia!

[elroocky]

I totaly agree with wally point of view.. that are not a lot of vw's bugs or ghia passing a "real 200k" , in france there are a few vw going over 200.. but they are very rarely on road.. over here french "stupid lows" doesn't allowed any modifications.. even changing a set of rim's is unlegal!!!!!..and oners are affraid to see cars seized by police.... so cars stay at home or on a trailer to go to run 1/4 miles session.. not more.. for the moment I know 6 cars in france taking a real +200.... no more..
I take a real 200 with my racing 1303.. and just over 200 car still sticks correctly to track. last time when I've tryed the remmele car, over a 220k, car was a little limit on the motorway..... it was even getting dangerous... even a little crazy.. and no spoiler or what ever car body 1303 as a stock look.. or you realy need a super chassis and suspension set..

david

[Sandeep]

I agree.

I think the limit that you would drive your bug on the highway is about 170 kph (for passing) and cruising at about 130kph. The bugs body is acceptable for this.

Sandeep

[njv]

hi
been a while since my last post just reading thru this caught my eye.

i generally pootle along on the autobahn at a steady 140kph ive had my cat up to 180kph but it gets scary all light and odd im adressing it slightly with a relocation of my battery to my spare wheel well and a lip spoiler on the chin.

typ3,s were originally designed to get up to higher speeds than bugs but it seems that its at about the same speed that things start to get light typ4,s were renowened for going light on the front end with unoficial advice being to keep the front trunk full with something heavy!!

as time goes by the unrestricted sections of the autobahn get less and less anyway with more and more turning to 120kph limit bursts upto 170 are quite normal but i wont sit at that speed for long.

take care all.

[Shad Laws]

Hello-

The late Type 3 is a far superior car for high speed driving than a bug.... far better aerodynamics, better weight distribution, more rigid body, etc.

IMHO, the Achilles heel is the front suspension. Here's where the Super Beetle accels :-). When cruising at 125mph (200 km/h) on the back country roads where no police ever wander, I don't have any problems... unless the road isn't smooth. If it's a rough road (as many country roads are), bump steer will kill ya! And, as we all know, no amount of tuning can ever fully remove bump steer from the unequal tie rod, twin trailing arm suspension system.

I see a 928 that's itching to be converted over to a T3...

Take care,

[Wally]

Hi,
About half a year ago there was a '71 square featured in a french magazine that had a 2,1 ltr wbx engine. The engine had been tuned a bit by Ahnendorp. The owner lives about 5km away from BAS' shop in Isselburg :-)
That car had no extraordinary suspension mods, but drove easily to 200 km/h on the autobahn!
So yes, I guess Shad and Neil are correct that the type 3 is better suited for higher speeds than a bug.
Greetings,
Walter

[njv]

hi
yea i think my car is capable of 200kph however i as the driver am not !! not as it is ive spotted a scrap mk1 golf c model with the tiny little chin spoiler im gonna rob it and see if that fits! it only needs to be small on the front.

no bump stops on my front suspension doesnt help so that needs sorting i was thinking of sticking some irs rear shocks up on the front as well that will stiffen things up a bit and also putting an aluminium belly plate under the car at the front as well from the spare wheel carier to the bulkhead this would stop air getting up under the petrol tank and pushing the frony of the cAr up in the air somebody at some point was talking about thicker caster shims for the beam for a typ3 anything ever come of that anybody know?

of course even though im certain my car would do 200kph it could not sit there to long without frying the heads and boiling the oil but im interested what your temps where at the speeds you mention shad and how you have combated heat in the stock flat fan housing?

[Shad Laws]

Hello-

of course even though im certain my car would do 200kph it could not sit there to long without frying the heads and boiling the oil but im interested what your temps where at the speeds you mention shad and how you have combated heat in the stock flat fan housing?

Well... Nickies :-).

I did some other things, too, but nothing particularly unique or esoteric that would near as much the difference the Nickies made. For example, I completely removed the stock oil cooler and rerouted its air back to the heads/cylinders... a very slight help for the heads/cylinders... but not much. Really, the Nickies are what did all the legwork.

As for the oiling system, I have an 11x11 Long Enterprises (i.e. "Mesa-Style") oil cooler with a 10" fan mounted vertically ahead of the left-rear axle, and it is plumbed with a true oil flow thermostat so it gets no flow when cold and 100% flow when hot (unlike stock systems that bypass when hot...). This takes care of the oil problem, but many other people use setups like this, too. Oil temperature is the easy one to cure... it's the heads/cylinders that cost money :-).

Take care,

[Tom Alltypes]

Yes, they do fit, here's a shot of one off an '84 A1 mounted under a '65.

http://home.att.net/~airdoc/friendspix/lylenotchlg.jpg

Something I'll get around to someday.


maybe




Originally posted by njv
hi
ive spotted a scrap mk1 golf c model with the tiny little chin spoiler im gonna rob it and see if that fits! it only needs to be small on the front.

[njv]

hi
that chin spoiler is probably better than the one ive pulled of a scrap mk1 5 dr golf c model the spoile you picture is slightly deeper and longer and comes off a mk 1 gti from the picture looks to be a very good fit so that leads me to beleive the one i have will not be as its smaller in every way.

shad with your on off thermostat in your oil system do you find after an oil change you have to get it hot and open up then add oil it would worry me that you have a big gap in oil feed after an oil change and no amount of cranking is gonna get the oil thru your cooler if the thermo is either fully on or off surely like most a very slight flow is allowed thru it to ensure the cooler gets filled?

mfg neil

[Shad Laws]

Hello-

shad with your on off thermostat in your oil system do you find after an oil change you have to get it hot and open up then add oil it would worry me that you have a big gap in oil feed after an oil change and no amount of cranking is gonna get the oil thru your cooler if the thermo is either fully on or off surely like most a very slight flow is allowed thru it to ensure the cooler gets filled?

No, there's no issue... namely because it doesn't quite work that way...

The operation of the thermostat when warm is pretty simple and straightforward: oil is forced from the pump to the cooler, then from the cooler to the filter, then from the filter to the engine. When it's cold, the thermostat simply opens up a bypass around the cooler to the filter. This happens progressively... so around 175ºF-200ºF or so it's part-way open. Once you get colder, the themostat is wide open. Now, oil is allowed to freely bypass the cooler and go straight to the filter.

This may sound like a non-functional thermostat, but look at it again (this would be MUCH easier with a pencil and paper!). Oil coming from the engine is exposed to BOTH the path to and from the cooler... in other words, the oil cooler has an equal oil pressure on either side. This, in effect, makes oil flow zilch. However, it does conveniently make oil changes and air bubbles get taken care of very nicely :-).

[EDIT: I had to remove the ASCII diagram... it didn't come out well, and made no sense.]

Take care,
Shad

[Tom Alltypes]

The chin spoiler on that '65 is also used to direct air up into the radiator, its wasser powered. It was a feature car in HVWs around 1994.