Late model Rear 944 Conversion question

[LOAF]

Need some help.. As mentioned on another thread I am doing a 944 conversion onto a 78 vert.. I am using 87+ Aluminum arms and components for this conversion.. The parts are from a N/A porsche with a AL arms. THings I am unsure of that concern me are the following..

1- How to unload torsion bars off the 944 assembly that is sitting off the car and in my basement.. I thank everyone for the info on unloading the arms on the car but still confused on how to approach the ones off the car..

2- What parts actually transfer over.. The torsion bar housing (or what ever it is called), the arms with brakes attached..
My question is do I remove the torsion bar tube on the beetle and replace with 944 assembly or just the arms and brakes.

3- What parts do I need.. I understand that I need the Spring Plate bushing for a beetle. Do I need anything else..

4-OPTIONS for emergency brakes.. MBT, or Kersher. Or are there other options.. I know there are threads so I will follow up with some research on that.. But is there anything That I should know that may benifit me and others..

5- How do I index the torsion bars once I reasemble.. DO I use the vw or 944 torsion bars?

If anyone has a thread on a step by step or any info please feel free..

PS HELP. Don't want to hurt myself.. as this can be slightly dangerous with the torsion bars under load..

ALex

[Stuart]

I've done this conversion also to my 1303 1979 convertible. The only difference is that my parts came from a 944 1986 Turbo.
As for question 1 I can't help you as I bought the Porsche parts already of the car.
Question 2: You need the alloy arms, torsion bars, torsion housing covvers. You can not swap the torsion housing from a the Porsche to Beetle because the housing on a beetle can not be dismanteld as with a 944. The housing from the 944 is not neccesary because these parts are the same. Just dismantel your VW rear suspension and replace with the 944 suspension. You have to cut down the torsion housing covvers from the 944 so you can bolt them to your VW. Further more you have to remove the inner rubber bushings on the 944 spring plates to accept the VW rubber bushing. You have to clearence the shocktower for about 1/2 mm so the big bolt on the spring plate will not rubb the chassis.
As for the E-brake parts. Go with the E-brake kit from MBT. This kitt replaces a part from the porsche E-brake. The good thing is that you can use the stock VW E-brake cable. Good luck and feel free to send a private e-mail if any further question. Can make some photos to if you want.

[LOAF]

Stuart, Thanks.. That makes sense now..

My new arms on the old beetle..
944 torsion Bars and Torsion Bar Covers.. These are the Spring Plate Covers.. Just want to verify..

Will source out new inner bushing.. and once mounted, I will see where to clearance..

BUT STILL NEED HELP.. on the Torsion Bar assembly that is in my basement..

Is it still under load.. Do I just unbolt the 3-4 bolts on the Cover and pray.. Please help..

Alex

[Stuart]

Alright, place a solid car jack under the end of the springplate and bring it under load to the point that the jack starts just raising the car. You have now unload the springplate. Be carefull with the next process. Always watch out that there are now bodyparts like legs, knies etc are under the springplate as its under a lot of tension!!!!!!!! Unbolt the 4 bolts so the cover comes of. Pry with a suitable bar or lever gently the springplate from the torsionbar till its over the stop. When its over the stop you must unload the carjack so the springplate will go down on it. Good luck. :D

[LOAF]

Stuart or anyone who can help..
Man I am made with my computer.. Finished writing a nice list of questions when IE just crashed.. Second time hopefully the charm.

From what you are telling me, when I jack the car up by the spring plate, it unloads the torsion bar.. This totally threw me for a loop.. being the not so smart one at the time, and still learning ACVW.. I am confused..

1. Why is it that by lifting or pushing the spring plate up it unloads.. Wouldn't it be better to raise the car and let the spring plates and IRS hang in some relaxed position.. If it were a strut of some sort this would lessen the load.. (obviously bad analogy and i understand that strut springs are still under load.. i.e. spring compressor).

2. Are These torsion bars preloaded in the tube.. If so how.. THis will come into play later when I have to index them..

3. It seems that in order to do the right thing I have to do it wrong, or contary to MY understanding..

4. The above is when it is on the car.. Now the 944 stuff is off the car and in a relaxed position.. based on your comments, this would mean that mine are still preloaded in the tube.. I would have to compress or lift the IRS arm to unload with the tool that I still haven't gotten..

Man i am confused.. Sorry to ask so many questions.. I hope I am not the only that can't figure this out.. But don't mind making a fool in the sake of safety..

Thanks
ALex

PS How big can picture be, I can so you my torsion bar assembly if you'd like.. No Pun intended.. I tried before, just before it crashed but it said my pic was to big.. Only 150Kb, never mind.. Just reread and 87 Kb was right in front of me. Now I have to figure out how to resize.. NUBIE to this darn Digital world..

[Stuart]

First of all, the torsion bars are loaded under extreme pressure!!!! Even if the spring plate retst on the stop its loaded so watch out. You have to jack up the car with the springplate because this will give just al little space to clear the springplate from the stop. At this moment it is still under extreme pressure. The pressure is off when the springplate is leverd over the stop an then liffed downwoard with the carjack. When it is not travelling further down then ist in its resting position and the pressure is of. Only then you can pull the springplate of the torsionbar and pull the torsionbar out its housing.
When dismanteling the suspension always mark the position op the springplate in its resting position (unload position) so when you bolt the suspension together you have a good starting point. Hopefully its clear now otherwise just send a message, no problem at all!!!!!!

[LOAF]

Stuart thanks...

Since I am at work.. Can't go to my car.. Will probably tackle this tomorrow.. I haven't looked in a couple of days.. so the rear end is fuzzy in my mind.. Will look at before I hit you up with some more questions..
Can I assume assmebly the opposite direction.. the only problem I see is that when I index them with the 944 stuff.. the markings are irrevelant.. Since I use the Spring Plate and arms from the 944 and the beetle bushing..

Any insight with the stuff off the car.. ANYONE.. may have to ask the porsche people on pelican.. seems not a common issue.
Alex

[MattKab]

Alex,

A guy who lives near me was off work for 5 years with a smashed wrist/thumb after pulling his first Beetle springplate. The accleration off the stop would be tremendous- without the weight of the car to work against.

I suggest you mark the end of your T1 torsion bars with a line parallel to the springplate. Since the springplates are the same length, the load on the spring will remain constant and the car may/should settle somewhere near current (without consideration of different wheels/tyres).

This is where a datum flat floor and an angle finder/clinometer come in handy if you have access.

When both sides are disassembled, you can parallel the lower edges of each springplate, in the relaxed state only, by eye with good results if you are careful.

Perhaps you could assemble each side slightly different, sit the car on it's wheels and decide which side looks how you want. Then disassemble each side and align the springplates by eye. If you're to have 944 springplate camber adjustment, set this to mid-point beforehand. Get your wheel alignment specialist to use this feature to sort your car once you have the springplates parallel.

VW people have been tweakin' torsion bars for a lot longer than the Pelican/Porsche people! :D

Matt

This may be of some help (if it works):

http://www.bugbabe.co.uk/year_age.html#howlow

[LOAF]

Matt, Stuart..

Below is a pic, of the 944 stuff in the basement.. Any suggestions on how to approach this animal..

Again.. Not sure if it is under load.. Looked thru the Haynes 944 book but they did not mention anything..

Well here is my first ever digital pic post..

Alex

[LOAF]

Stuart, Matt.. anyone..

Above is the 944 stuff, it sems to have worked.. Any takers.. Anyone know somebody that can help me in NNJ... (a couple of beers...somemoney to offset travel)... Can't move the car as it is sitting there.. with out a wiring harness.. :(

Would be willing to hire a hand.. Just know I am not a rich guy :)
R/S
Alex

Will be at the Englishtown show this weekend (with out the beetle) but would be willing to discuss there..

[MattKab]

Alex,

The torsion bars in that 944 assembly are indeed preloaded, much MUCH moreso than a Bugs :(

The Haynes manuals usually excell at the disassembly of a car!

I wish I could help you more, I'm all for a challenge... (and a couple of beers)

A 36" nail bar is the only suggestion I can make tonight.

Be carefull, that thing may want to jump up or across the floor when awoken.

Perhaps the weight of a big car could be employed to hold it down somehow.

Matt

[LOAF]

Thanks.. For the feedback.. Weight of a car.. Hmm.. could work.. I will continue to solicate help, ideas or comments..
Got my front end apart.. Pics are coming..
Very happy.. Now I need a press and some time..
Man, if I can get the rear end apart I could be so much closer..

Thanks for everything..
Alex