Kafer cup brace

[craazy Cooter]

What is the best way to make my own kafer cup brace, assuming I have access to a welder and tube stock? Should I solid weld the frame horns to the shock towers? How should I use heim joints instead of clevis pins? Tell me your Ideas/errors!

[Racelook]

That's also what i wanted to know :D

[judgie]

yea i would like to know how others have done this as well.
i was going to try and tie the frame horns and shock towers in to the rear legs of roll cage and also the tosion bar houseing.
any one got any pic,s?
cheers rob

[Wesayso]

how about this one from 55superbeetle (http://community.webshots.com/photo/68341357/92651133AojgWh)

browsed trough them from this (http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3326&pagenumber=2) link at TheRaceShop forum

[boygenius]

Does the CSP kit have a right and left hand thread end joints in the links so you can pre-load the chassis.:confused:

[Alex]

Originally posted by boygenius
Does the CSP kit have a right and left hand thread end joints in the links so you can pre-load the chassis.:confused:

Yes it does.

There are some pics I believe in the gallery of a car with full cage with integrated bracing.

You can also see the Cup Brace (CSP only resales them....the producer is another company) in my tech article on the main page. That should give you some ideas on how to fab your own if you want.

Maybe it would be possible to get a group deal with a vendor if multiple members want to get a certain brace....Cup brace or TGFab or another make.


Alex

[boygenius]

If we can can get a group deal on a chassis brace I'll take one. I like the cup brace.:D

[hybrid_john]

I'd be interested in buying a Cup brace, I've always wanted one...

BTW, is there a vendor that can hook us up with a five-bar setup? I really like the way it looks and it should stiffen up the chassis a little more...:)

[zydeco]

I've been looking for one (either 5bar käfer cup or tgfab) for months....

brian

[juse]

I made mine from 3/8" tubing, 6mm steel plate, 12x1,25 threaded rod and fork ends that are used on pneumatic cylinders.
The setup looks good and strong, I used the CSP brace as a model:
http://www.csp-shop.de/technik/pdf/eng/17704.pdf
Here is an earlier post of bracing:
http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?threadid=1466
Justin

[Alex]

So far 3 people are interested in the Käfer Cup brace.

If we get 5 I will contact some shops to tryto get a good deal for it next week. A 5 bar setup is available.....but it depends from which shop.

Alex

[Sandeep]

Don't forget that you have to cut the body slightly ('74 standard) if you are installing it (CSP 3-bar brace) with the body on. With a dremel, you can make the cuts look factory.

Also, make sure you have your axles in and the suspension loaded before you weld the links for the down tube from the shock tower to the frame horns.

You can weld in the frame horn link a couple of different ways but I decided to weld my link to the transmission carrier at the rear of the tranny that bolts to the frame horns. This will give me enough room for the suspension to compress while driving and have the axle not rub on the downtube.

Sandeep

[Aurumen]

Sandeep,

Off topic, but got a Dremel question. What kinda bits or discs do you use to cut metal. I can't seem to find any that are worth a darn. Got any tips?

Nick

[Sandeep]

You get the dremel black cutting disks .. 1 1/2" dia, reinforced with fibreglass .. cuts sheetmetal like butter, comes in packs of 10.

Sandeep

[Alex]

Yup,

those carbon disks or whatever they are called are great.....and pricey.

Alex

[boygenius]

The more expensive "cut off wheel" is worth the money since the cheap stone cut off disc's will break very easily.

[boygenius]

Originally posted by Alex
So far 3 people are interested in the Käfer Cup brace.

If we get 5 I will contact some shops to tryto get a good deal for it next week. A 5 bar setup is available.....but it depends from which shop.

Alex
Anybody else want a chassis brace? We only need two more people.:D

[jrinlv]

I need one!!!! What are we looking at for a price and time frame?? Let me know I am interested JR

[Alex]

I contacted a shop.

The price will be under 200 Euros for the setup. Not sure on how much under 200Euros. A 5 bar setup will also be an option for extra money. I will get details soon hopefully. The more we get the cheaper it will get too.

boygenius
hybrid_john
zydeco
jrinlv

are interested for now.

You better let me know if you are really interested because I do not want to do the leg work and later nobody buys it. I already have mine so I am doing this to help out.

Alex

[boygenius]

For less than 200 euros I will take one.:D

[jrinlv]

I'm in........ Any pics of a 5 bar brace?? Thanks JR

[Alex]

Look at my tech article on the main page of this site.

http://www.germanlook.com/Html/Tech/Tech05CupBrace.htm

Alex

[zen]

ac.net just got some CSP in. should have mine anyday. not under 200 Euro, but nice. it was a long wait for this batch though. not sure how many he has left.

[jrinlv]

So, it should be under 244 USDs and what should shipping be on something like that? I can't wait......... JR

[boygenius]

200 euros is equal to $245 US dollars. Am I correct?:confused:

Forgot to check post before I posted. /\
| :o

[hybrid_john]

Sweet Alex: I'm deffinately interested in buying a setup, I would really like a 5-bar setup, how much extra is it gonna cost me to get one?

BTW how do I convert euros into US dollars?


John

[boygenius]

I will go with a 5 bar set-up if it is not too much more money. I would pay up to 250 euros for the 5 bar set-up. Otherwise the 3 bar set-up will be fine.:D

[zydeco]

Sorry for not updating for a while - I've been in Germany for the better part of the last two weeks.

I'm on the list for one of AC.nets 5bar Käfer-Cup braces. John mentioned the new shipment to me just after thanksgiving but I haven't been able to follow up with him because of my trip to Germany. So - I'm interested in getting one BUT I will get the 5bar from AC.net if the are indeed in and ready to ship. However, if things are delayed with the AC.net order, then I'll be in on the group buy (assuming the anticipated delivery date is in the near future).

So summary is, count me OUT for now and as soon as I hear from John at AC.net, I'll post an update.

Brian

[boygenius]

I thought aircooled.net only had the 2-bar and 3-bar kafer cup braces. How do you get a 5-bar brace.:confused:

[Alex]

Here are the details:

The 3 bar setup is 150 Euros each if we get a total of 5 orders.
To get the 5 bar setup with hardware it will be an additional 130 Euros.

Those prices are without the German taxes already for customers outside the EU. Shipping will be on top of the price....but should not be too bad when shipped via Economy which takes about 2 weeks from Germany.

Once we have 5 or more people commited and I will give everybody the shop details with phone number so that you can order. They will take VISA.

Alex

[boygenius]

I'm still going to buy one. The three bar set-up is in my budget.:D

[hybrid_john]

Do they take any other type of payment? I don't have a credit-card....I REALLY want the brace but I think that I'll stick with the three-bar setup.
BTW: what are the advantages of the 5-bar setup over the 3-bar?
And (being ignorant again) how do I calculate euros into dollars?




John

[boygenius]

150 euros = $185 dollars. I think. :)

I multiply the euro amount by 1.225 to get the dollar amount.:D

[Alex]

I guess you could send an international money order or wire the money into the shop account.

I would guess that 5 bar setup is even stronger than the 3 bar setup. I am not sure if it is really needed......I just like the looks.

You can go to www.xe.com to calculate how much it is in US funds.

Alex

[hybrid_john]

Thanx you guys, I appreciate the money help:D

genius: you were right on the MONEY! 150 EUR = 184.110 USD
1 EUR = 1.22740 USD

Alex: an international money order would probably be the easiest way to pay for the Kafer brace. If it takes long enough for me to save up around $350 I might, (MIGHT!), buy a 5-bar setup, if not I will go with a 3-bar setup.

Another question: If I buy the 3-bar setup, can I always ad the two extra bars in the future? Or would I have to buy a Kafer brace all over again?


John

[njv]

hi
are these gonna get shipped to idividuals straight out alex? i guess what im angling at here is tha150€ is the cheapest ive seen these even here in germany and iwould be interested if i can be included in the group buy even though i live in germany?

theres a guy porsch to bug sells theys on the net but at slightly more at a gues this is where there comeing from?

[Alex]

njv,

I know Mariano....I got some parts from him.

They will be shipped directly to the individuals......I have nothing to do with the deal except for making the contact with the shop.

I am not sure how it will work with the taxes since you are in Germany.

Alex

[craazy Cooter]

Oh Yeah. I already fabricated my own. 3/4" cromoly tubing, 6 hiem joints (3right 3left thread). 70 inches of tubing and two shock brackets from scratch. about $70.

Pros - Hand built. (i know it was done right)

Cheap

strong

No shipping


Who cares if you have shiny stuff under your car if no one can see it? Mine's black.

[hybrid_john]

Right on cooter, how much doese it weigh in at? Can you post a pic of it, so we can see how it looks?

KUDOS man, KUDOS!


John

[juse]

70$ sounds fine Cooter, as you used heim-ends and chromoly. But mine cost 0$, no shiny bits and painted in black. Looks OK and does the job.
Justin
"Homemade-motorsports"

[Alex]

So I guess that there is no more interest in the KC Brace?

Alex

[boygenius]

I guess so.:(

[craazy Cooter]

I ll get a pic of it sometime. It weighs 5 lbs or so. pretty light. It should be cool with my konis and unsprung clutch disk.

[jrinlv]

I'm interested still, let me know what is going on? Thanks JR

[hybrid_john]

Can't wait to see those pics cooter...5 lbs. :eek:

How much do the manufactured KC braces wiegh, what kind of material is used? Anyone know?



John

[Alfito]

Hey, I am in! I am in!
I had been off the air, but I am back now.
Count me on, guys, I am interested in the Brace (3 arms).
Alex, how do we know the shipping issues (basically price and time).

[Alex]

Shipping will be done via German Post Economy which is the cheapest way and to get it in a decent time. It takes about 1-2 weeks to Canada and the US.

I need at least 5 people for the deal. As of now I do not really now who still wants one and who does not. I think we are down to 2 including you Alfito.

Alex

[boygenius]

I'm to busy to make mine so I'm still in for the three bar set-up.:D

[Alfito]

What?!!
I though we were 4 or 5 with me!
What is the matter with you men?, that price is a gift!, Santa is here. Please jump and break your coin box gentlemen, you deserve yourselves this. Hide the paycheck from the wife, or ask her to give it as a gift. If there is love, she will understand.
Cmon

[jrinlv]

Please count me in!! JR

[hybrid_john]

STILL IN!

Three are the only one I can afford.... right now. I really hope you can just get the hardware to add on the other twoo bars...

STILL IN!
STILL IN!
STILL!...
IN!...




John

[Alfito]

I think we are done Alex:

Hybrid_john
JR
Boygenius
NJV (Germany, he was interested but probably he should confirm)
Me

Anybody else? :eek:

[Alex]

Okay...if you guys are five I will get the ball rolling. If NJV confirms I will get you the info in Private Messages/ Emails.

Alex

[boygenius]

sweet.:D

I can hardly wait.:silly:

[DORIGTT]

Can I be included in ordering a 5 bar unit for my Ghia?

I really could use some shiny aluminum sticks under there somewhere:D

Count me in...if I can be fit in.

Thanks in advance.

DORIGTT

[njv]

hi
yes im still in with this i was a little unsure if it works for me being the only one in germany!but im in lets do it!


i have noticed an odd thing i will have to talk with a forum moderator when i come from an email sent telling me a post has been sent to a thread im watching it clears any new posts that were there i thougt id noticed this befor but know i now for sure sometimes i dont have time to look at all the posts that are new but it looks like if i want to see them i cant lookk at single posts untill i do have time a bit odd!

[zydeco]

I finally recieved mine from AC.net so I'm officially out of the group buy. Good luck getting everyone together - it sounds like a good deal except for the weak dollar!

[Alfito]

Hi Alex, NJV has confirmed, so, we are five Cup Brace interested. Thanks for your interest in supporting us.
That is exciting to see people kept together for a hobby from all over the world.
What is next?
Regards

[Alex]

Okay guys:

For those that are in please send me an email to confirm.
I will call the shop giving them the names.

I will email you then with the contact number of the shop and you will have to call them to order. Payment is done thru VISA or money order.....which you will have to send to the shop in Germany.

Details will be in the PM/Email.

It is good that this group buy is going thru......there might be the chance of other group deals for other stuff down the road.

Alex

[njv]

hi
im in :D sent you p-mail.

[boygenius]

I'm in I sent you an e-mail Alex. Thanks. Brendan...:D

[boygenius]

Not to sound stupid but how many hours ahead is Germany compared to the eastern United States. I don't want to call at 5:00 a.m. and nobody answer the phone. Thanks....;)

[Alfito]

Yehaaa!!!
Of course I am in, already sent an email to you Alex.
Thank you so much.
Perhaps it would be nice to start a new section called "Group Buy", with a list of the items that usually are just dreams. What about this list

1. Kamei type spoiler
2. Camber compensator
3. Sway Away bars
4. ...

Regards

[Alfito]

No question is stupid. :)
My grandfather used to say:
"There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity; ignorance is gone when you ask for answers and get the knowledge. Stupidity is the choice to remain in ignorance by not looking for the knowledge".
Perhaps I am being very philosophical, so, to stay focused on the track, Germany is six hours ahead of you. When you finish the cereal in the morning still is a good time to call.
Happy New Year to everybody in this great virtual place
:haveadrin

[boygenius]

Thanks very much.:)

Maybe I'll call when I get home at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning.;)

[Alex]

I am still waiting for 2 more emails.

Just keeping you guys informed.

Alex

[jrinlv]

I'm still in for one 3 bar set, or are we dead in the water?? JR

[hybrid_john]

Still in Alex, just sent you a pm and e-mail.:D


John

[craazy Cooter]

Heres a pic of mine

[craazy Cooter]

Heres another

[Lazarus]

i sent u an email i m in let me know about payment and shipping

[Alex]

Got all emails.

Thanks! I just got home.
I will email all of you tomorrow with the info and I will let the shop know.

Thanks,

Alex

[hybrid_john]

No problem Alex, SORRY bout the delay....car:o

cooter: I like it, though bright red isn't my favorit color, it looks really good, you did a nice job

Kudos!:D


John

[zen]

cooter, how much clearance is there between the crossbar and the oil cooler? i have a CSP i have yet to put on and have the sinking feeling that the 96 plate with fan i just mounted is right in the way. :doh:

[Sandeep]

I know this is off topic but I would sure love an airbox group deal to quiet down those barking IDF's :D

Sandeep

[craazy Cooter]

Theres about an inch between the cooler and upper brace. I can vary the length of the spacers on my upper bar to lower it to acommodate the cooler.

[Alex]

The information was sent via email.

Thanks,
Alex

[Lazarus]

thanx alex i will contact him tommrow :D

[njv]

perhaps there should be a new thread started "what would people like to do group buys on?"

its just an idear:silly:

i wouldnt quite know which section to start it in?:rolleyes:

[Alex]

Neil,

let me think about incorporating it.

Alex

[Alfito]

Thank you Alex, I will call him tomorrow too
I support Neil's idea
Regards

[hybrid_john]

Thanks Alex!:D:D

I agree on the group buy thread, I like Sandeeps airbox idea, I've been wondering where to get one!



John

[craazy Cooter]

So does anybody need help with creating their own? I can get my measurements if needed. Ever been to a car show and seen a bunch of cars with tons of bolt ons and no real creativity? Custom fabrication seperates your ride from the next schmoe. Those that aren't really interested need to start a new thread if you want a group buy.

[boygenius]

Thanx Alex. I am going to stay up and order it tonight, If I don't fall asleep.:silly:

I would like a group buy section. :D

[Racelook]

Originally posted by craazy Cooter
So does anybody need help with creating their own? I can get my measurements if needed. Ever been to a car show and seen a bunch of cars with tons of bolt ons and no real creativity? Custom fabrication seperates your ride from the next schmoe. Those that aren't really interested need to start a new thread if you want a group buy.

Yow Cooter.. I really really need any kind of measurmance (what i also have said in the second reply in this topic.. but sinds then it didn't goes over making your own :silly: ) so I can fab my own.

Have you welded some extra plates on your trannymountbar (I don't know the correct word in the english)?

How large are your roundbolts (circelbolts) (BADDD english :rolleyes: )? Where did you get them from?

I'm still doubting on welding them on mij chassishorns or make my own just like your.. I think I make my own so I can always remove them if I want to install bigger engines,etc.

So if you can pm me some measurmance or post them in this topic..

In forward thanx..
Wiebrand

HOLLAND

[AIRSICK]

Don't forget that you have to cut the body slightly ('74 standard) if you are installing it (CSP 3-bar brace) with the body on. With a dremel, you can make the cuts look factory.

Also, make sure you have your axles in and the suspension loaded before you weld the links for the down tube from the shock tower to the frame horns.

You can weld in the frame horn link a couple of different ways but I decided to weld my link to the transmission carrier at the rear of the tranny that bolts to the frame horns. This will give me enough room for the suspension to compress while driving and have the axle not rub on the downtube.

Sandeep

Sandeep,

You said that you tied your frame horn links to the trans carrier. Do you have pictures of that? Did you fab your own carrier or are you using a stock piece? Are there any clearance problems to watch out for?

I would like to fab my own carrier and intigrate the mounts for the brace.

69project

[LLVWGL]

digging threads up from the grave huh??

I was about to write "is this still going, i want IN!!!!!!", then i looked at the post dates. LOL

[AIRSICK]

That's why you shouldn't post when your tired!

I found a nice heavy duty trans mount plate at CSP(California) for $29. I ordered it along with some Berg HD rubber front and rear mouns.

[Tedzbug]

i hate to ask........ is anyone using a brace with heaterboxes? pics?

[Bad bug]

That's why you shouldn't post when your tired!

I found a nice heavy duty trans mount plate at CSP(California) for $29. I ordered it along with some Berg HD rubber front and rear mouns.

Project 69 i will also be doing a 5 bar kafer cup rear setup soon as my brace comes in from miami. I also want to use the heavy duty tranny support as an anchoring point for the bar instead of the frame horn. I thing there should be a picture here to help us with the process.

[Bullyboy]

this is mine welded up.
Not too sure about the heater boxes clearance. I measured the wifes super (with heaterboxes) and tried to set it up accordingly. I am just going to be running an A1 Sidewinder anyways but it doesn't hurt to have the space.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid214/pb772ac7971a3c46bf4c386c497aaf071/ed23a038.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p8489ca7d4383f96f435a9b282bb8e6ab/edb583b7.jpg

[sparks]

Just got my CSP 3 bar's in. Could someone explain preloading to me? Of course it's not in their directions but I'd like to get them installed in a weekend or two.

thank you, sparks.