Front Ducting... good or bad

[hybrid_john]

So here is the deal...I want to run a front bumper/spoiler for my car (see:"My surgery ideas" thread in the fiber forums). In the center of the bumper I want to use an oil-cooler, and am worried about drag created by the dead space behind the cooler. I have came up with an idea, by placing ducts in the shape of the bumper opening and running it though to the hood. I have been told this may create lift in the front and I am worried about this.

I would like some input/opinions on wether or not this would create lift, downforce, or wehter it would just be a big void in the front....any one have experience with this kinda stuff? HELP!




John

[boygenius]

Hmmmmm.

If you are letting the air out from in front of the car via a duct going to the hood that shouldn't create lift. With all that hot air escaping out the otp of your hood it should at least defrost your front windshield in the winter.:silly: You might want to look at a second generation 1986-1991 mazda RX-7 oil cooler. It is about 22" wide, 4" deep and 5" tall. That should fit nicely in the front of your car. Oh ya, It looks like it will add at least a quart of oil to your cars capacity.:D

[hybrid_john]

Thanks, Brendan, for the posi feed back, and thanks for recomending the second Gen RX-7 oil-cooler, I'll see if I can't find one on ebay...:D:D

Oh Yeah! I like the defroster bit, LOL!


John

[boygenius]

I had one. It was on my RX-7 untill it blew up.:(


Stupid rotarys:hurl:

[vujade]

im sure with running the oil cooler to the front of the car, he is going to be adding alot more then just one more quart of oil :D

[zen]

explain the ducting method you have in mind. i am assuming a wide channel cutting all of the way up. or are you thinking just two tubes?

[hybrid_john]

vujade: OH YEAH! Try about 10 or so (just a guestiment)

Sorry botu the RX-7 Brendan, rotary is completely different....:(

zen: Ok, you kinda know what I'm planning on doing, as I have explained in my e-mail. Well it's hard for me to explain by typing and not being able to lay it down on paper, and the channel is what I was planning on doing....but here it goes!

If you read my thread in the fiber forums you are probably familiar with the bumpers I am looking to use. Each bumper/spoiler has three main openings (one big opening in the middle and two smaller openings off to the sides) allowing me to use ducts to my advantage. As I stated before, I will be using an oil-cooler in the front center opening of the bumper. To avoid this opening from causing any trouble in aerodynamics, I chose to duct the air through the front, past the steering componants (depending on how the bumper sits on the car) and the trunk space, exiting through the hood...Now on the hood opening I was thinking in terms of a canard style wing, small yet will create downforce.

Thats about as much as I can elaborate right now, I do not have a front bumper to work with YET! I will be getting one in the near future as soon as I chose the right one. I promise to update everything that I have been lacking in a.s.a.p.!:)

I hope that clears it up for everyone a LITTLE bit, sorry I give you more... next time:)


John

[boygenius]

Originally posted by vujade
im sure with running the oil cooler to the front of the car, he is going to be adding alot more then just one more quart of oil :D

I meant at least one quart of oil for just the cooler.;)

[njv]

hi
very rough rule of thumb you will need a litre for every meter so long as your using a decent size cooler line !!.

have you guys seen the nice oil line holders that bolt to the pan to body screws under the car you send one line up one side the return down the other ill try and find a link if your interested .

[hybrid_john]

I'm interested, rather curious as a matter of fact. Let's see what you have for us...

I was thinking about running the plumbing through the heater channels (since I won't be using them), what about that?


John

[boygenius]

I would use hard metal lines to prevent chaffing that could cause an oil leak. :D

[hybrid_john]

I'm gonna, steel braided is the only way to go when doin this:D


John

[boygenius]

Even that may chaff. I was thinking you could use large diameter copper plumbing pipe. If you can find it you could use aluminium pipe.;)

[3MCRacing]

Just as few thoughts, questions and ideas.

question Is the oil cooler going to be in an enclosed area ?
If yeas then just use the ducting to put the air flow out of the wheel wells. The air is already going to be there so using the ducts this way will not cause lift. If the oil coller is not going to be enclosed then then the air will travel under the car and this might cause a little more lift then normal (Depending on Speed) The best method is to enclose the oil cooler and use the duct work to cool the brakes even if the other two holes are used for brake ducting.

[hybrid_john]

3MCRacing: Nice avatar man...kinda kreeps me out:D
Thats an interesting point you have there, I don't quite follow you on it. Have you seen the bumpers I was talking about? I also was looking at a few Porsche bumpers too.
Would you beable to elaborate on you idea for me a little?
Check out the Fiber forums to see my bumpers.


Brendan, you have a good point, I never knew steel braided lines would chaff, maybe some chromoly tube stock or aluminum like you said. I could then run some steel braided hoses from the cooler to the tubes and fit them together with some AN fitting, but what size of tube stock should I use?

John

[boygenius]

Probably 1/2" oil line but I'm not sure.

John empty your PM box, Its full and I can't send you any more messages.


Brendan...

[3MCRacing]

Hybrid

I did look at the spoilers and i think that the evo would be extremely difficult to graft but who am i to say i believe in the theory you can do anything if you put your mind to it.

So imagine the spoiler on the car (completely finished) now lets say you have not removed any of the bugs bodywork under the hood IE... the spare tire area. now put the oil cooler as far forward as you can inside the spoiler depending on how much room you have left between the cooler and the most forward part of the bug you could build a box to enclose the cooler and at the back end of this box you could use a NACA duct to force the air out onto the brakes now the NACA duct may face rearward of the actual brake but using a hose to route the air to whever you want it is the idea. Does this help if not ill E-mail you my PH number and you can ask me :)

[volkdent]

Just my 2 cents, and this may have already been considered, but you'll probably want to run a thermostatically controlled bypass for your oil cooler, as your engine will take a VERY long time to get up to a good temp with the volume of oil the front mounted cooler and lines will use.

Jason

http://www.elephantracing.com/oilhandling/thermostat.htm

Or

http://www.batinc.net/thermos.htm

[Alfito]

In the center of the bumper I want to use an oil-cooler

John

I do not know if this is still in time, but I found a bug with an oil cooler (Racimex) in a Kamei Style spoiler. Attached is a photo. Perhaps it is useful
Regards

[samcat]

I do not know if this is still in time, but I found a bug with an oil cooler (Racimex) in a Kamei Style spoiler. Attached is a photo. Perhaps it is useful
Regards

:eek:
Imaging how much damage a single stone would do to that! Its TOTALLY exposed!

Scary.

Personally I would have turned it 90o and mounted it such that the air thats caught by the airdam is directed upward and through it... Plus it would be hidden/protected by the bumper.

Cya,

Sam C

[njv]

hi
there is a protective grill available for these oil coolers but to be honest it wouldnt be hard to make your own out of some ally sheet with holes in it .

i dont think thats a racimex cooler anyway i think its from a merc i may be wrong like or mayby racimex makes them for benz?

[Alfito]

Yea, just like the Bug Art bug in the Gallerie section, the black one. In that case the oil cooler is inside the front apron, covered by a grill, I think it is a more elegant proposal, in fact, you hardly notice it, and it is well protected.
Nice, I like that solution, but I think you may need a smaller cooler.

[Alfito]

hi
i dont think thats a racimex cooler anyway i think its from a merc i may be wrong like or mayby racimex makes them for benz?

That picture is from Racimex's website :)

[njv]

That picture is from Racimex's website :)
oh mmmm oh welll mmmm ok so they must make them for benz then as im sure ive seen these coolers fitted in mercs in the scrapyards here but then i am getting on dont ya know i didnt even know racimex had a website :eek:

[hybrid_john]

I do not know if this is still in time, but I found a bug with an oil cooler (Racimex) in a Kamei Style spoiler. Attached is a photo. Perhaps it is useful
Regards

Actually, it's always "on time", I don't even have the spoiler yet, and for that matter have one that's modified to fit a Superbeetle...

I've seen that kind of oil cooler before on a blue beetle in a VW Trends magazine... as a matter of fact it's the same article that got me started on the German Look...

Thanks for the info Alfito.

John