944 N/A brakes to 1303 questions (yet another)

[super vw]

Ok so i have been searching the forums and kinda have an idea of whats need to bolt on early 944 brakes front and rear.

- So i need the calipers, rotors, backing plates, and spindles for the front, and then just the calipers, rotors for the rear?

- the kersher ball joints (19mm?) for the front

- addaption of the hand brakes (from kersher or home brewed) on the rear

Is this ALL thats needed?
How about the M/C? will the stock 74 super unit be good? or will i need to use a 944 M/C?

and they have rebuild kits for these brakes right?

[boygenius]

I got my caliper rebuild kits from www.autohausaz.com for $45 for all four calipers. :)

I would use a bigger master cylinder since the caliper fluid volume is much greater than your stock brakes.

I'm going to use a 911 master cylinder. :)

[Superman]

- the kersher ball joints (19mm?) for the front

The Kersche ball joints are 17mm. The VW ball joints are 15mm and Porsche didn't make 944 ball joints to 19mm until the late 952 car.

[super vw]

The Kersche ball joints are 17mm. The VW ball joints are 15mm and Porsche didn't make 944 ball joints to 19mm until the late 952 car.


My bad... so is everything i listed correct other than the size of the kerscher ball joints?

And would a 944 M/C work well? (is it is from those brakes) would it "bolt on" or will i need to mount it differently?

[Superman]

The Kerscher ball joints are a must have for this conversion. I'd suggest the 944 M/C for the NA brakes. There have already been plenty of posts that describe how to install it.

[super vw]

944 M/C with a servo (brake booster)? or without a servo? i was talking to some one about this and he said to use it with a servo, and use the vacume from the intake manifolds to run the servo. he was saying you would get a HARD pedal without the servo... are you guys using servos?

[boygenius]

I bought a 1987 911 sc master cylinder with servo for my car. I wanted power brakes. I had a real hard time finding room for the servo when the master cylinder alone just bolts on. I had to cut and reweld the pitman arm to clear the m/c. It wasn't worth it for me. The 944 servo might be smaller in diameter so you might have better luck. :)

[zen]

i'm running a 944 m/c with 951 brakes. haven't driven it yet, but will let you know in a few weeks. no servo. mine is not a daily driver so less concern about a hard pedal.

[boygenius]

944 M/C with a servo (brake booster)? or without a servo? i was talking to some one about this and he said to use it with a servo, and use the vacume from the intake manifolds to run the servo. he was saying you would get a HARD pedal without the servo... are you guys using servos?


If you want my servo I'll sell it to you otherwise it goes up for sale on ebay. :)

[super vw]

If you want my servo I'll sell it to you otherwise it goes up for sale on ebay. :)


How soon are you eBaying it? i might be interested, but i wont know for sure till i do the brakes... and thats after i do the engine (im doing the engine now)

ZEN, can you tell if its hard without driving it? or is the system not fully functional yet?

Thanks!
Jonathan

[boygenius]

How soon are you eBaying it? i might be interested, but i wont know for sure till i do the brakes... and thats after i do the engine (im doing the engine now)
Thanks!
Jonathan

I'll hold on to it, I'm in no hurry to sell it. ;)

[zen]

ZEN, can you tell if its hard without driving it? or is the system not fully functional yet?

Thanks!
Jonathan

i only have one caliper on at the moment. hope to have the rest on in the next week or so. will let you know.

[super vw]

cool, :) cool!

[yetibone]

I put 944 calipers on the front of <---that car. I used the stock M/C with NO problem whatsoever.

I don't think power brakes are nessecary. The car could weigh anywhere from 1700 to 2200 lbs. With Brake calipers and rotors designed to haul down a 2700 lb car, pedal effort would still be on par with, or less than a 944 equiped with power brakes. Non assisted brakes have a better feel IMO.

SuperVW,
If you are using 944 rear brakes, will you be using 944 trailing arms?



Yetibone

[super vw]

I put 944 calipers on the front of <---that car. I used the stock M/C with NO problem whatsoever.

I don't think power brakes are nessecary. The car could weigh anywhere from 1700 to 2200 lbs. With Brake calipers and rotors designed to haul down a 2700 lb car, pedal effort would still be on par with, or less than a 944 equiped with power brakes. Non assisted brakes have a better feel IMO.

SuperVW,
If you are using 944 rear brakes, will you be using 944 trailing arms?



Yetibone



I dont plain on using the arms, just the brakes.

So what are you using for the rear, as it sounds like your only using the fronts from a 944?

Later
Jonathan

[yetibone]

CB performance Roto-Hubs, and Varga calipers a-la Pontiac Fiero. Whole kit was reasonably priced, and I like it. Bolts right on as-is, but I had to drill for, and install longer studs and spacers for some 17x9 Cup 3's.

On the 1303 I'm building for myself, I'll use '84 944 stuff on all four corners, including the rear control arms, and some 951 spring plates.

I plan on using the stock M/C on my 1303 too, just for simplicity's sake.



Yetibone

[super vw]

CB performance Roto-Hubs, and Varga calipers a-la Pontiac Fiero. Whole kit was reasonably priced, and I like it. Bolts right on as-is, but I had to drill for, and install longer studs and spacers for some 17x9 Cup 3's.

On the 1303 I'm building for myself, I'll use '84 944 stuff on all four corners, including the rear control arms, and some 951 spring plates.

I plan on using the stock M/C on my 1303 too, just for simplicity's sake.



Yetibone

Hmm, see im not to sure on using the stock M/C, Michael ghia was saying it wont push enough volume to feed the 944 brakes, you would end up with a long pedal stroke and maybe hit the bulkhead.

[yetibone]

I can concur with a long-ish pedal stroke. The brakes are applied within 1.75" of pedal travel using a stock M/C.

A smaller M/C bore will provide more mechanical advantage, making the brakes apply tighter, but at the sacrifice of having to push the apply piston farther for the same reaction.

The half inch or so difference in pedal stroke didn't seem worth the hassle of plumbing for brake light switches, and retrofitting a Porsche M/C on her Bug.



Yetibone

[boygenius]

Just a little info I thought I would share. The 911 master cylinder I have has the same bolt spacing as the bug M/C and it has the pressure switches in the M/C just like the beetles. It also has brake hoses coming from the top of the M/C to go to a remote resevoir just like the beetle. The only real modification that I will have to do is either thread the bolt holes in the M/C or use a nut and bolt to attach it to the pan and shorten the push rod. :)

[yetibone]

That would be a better and safer retrofit than a 944 M/C.

Thanks for the tip Brendan! :)



Yetibone

[boygenius]

I'll take some pics if I can get my hands on a digital camera. :laugh:

[zen]

that's good info genius. a little late, but good. :D

tapping for the switch on the 944 m/c wasn't too big of a deal, but i was already re-running lines. bigger deal if you aren't. there was a pic of it in the gallery, but don't see it now. should be on my computer too, but can't find it there either. i will get another pic just as info for all. (i know you know how to deal with it :) )

[eldavid]

Just a little info I thought I would share. The 911 master cylinder I have has the same bolt spacing as the bug M/C and it has the pressure switches in the M/C just like the beetles.

boygenius,
Which 911 master cylinder do you have?
-emerson

[boygenius]

boygenius,
Which 911 master cylinder do you have?
-emerson


I think its a 1987 911 SC. :)

[eldavid]

I think its a 1987 911 SC. :)
What are its cylinder bore sizes? I'm asking because I have a master cylinder that appears to be from a 911 (like you describe). Its cylinder bore sizes are 23(23.81mm?) and 14(14.29mm?). If I apply Shad's brake bias ratio calculation to this master cylinder using 944 N/A calipers, I get .81045:1. I don't think this ratio is what I would want. Compare this to using the 944 master cylinder with 944 N/A calipers, yielding a ratio of 1.43577:1.

-emerson

[boygenius]

What are its cylinder bore sizes? I'm asking because I have a master cylinder that appears to be from a 911 (like you describe). Its cylinder bore sizes are 23(23.81mm?) and 14(14.??). If I apply Shad's brake bias ratio equation to this cylinder using 944 calipers, I get .778:1. I don't think this ratio is what I would want.

-emerson


Don't know. When I bought it it was said to be in working order so I'm going to use it as is. If I have a problem when I go to bleed the brakes in a few weeks and I have to rebuild it I will let you know. If it ain't broke don't fix it. :laugh:

[eldavid]

See my updated previous post with updated calculations.
-emerson

[super vw]

For sure let us know how the 911 master/C works....

[Superman]

944 M/C with a servo (brake booster)? or without a servo?

The 944 servo will not fit within the Super's body/pan. I'm not sure about the Standard Bug but I think the 911 servo will fit their cars.

[super vw]

The 944 servo will not fit within the Super's body/pan. I'm not sure about the Standard Bug but I think the 911 servo will fit their cars.


Mike was saying the super had MORE room, im not to familiar with servos.
dont they mount "remote" from the M/C anyways? if they do i could stick it any where i wanted in the trunk couldent I?
And is it correct that all you need to run the servo is a vacume source (such as from the intake maifolds)?

[boygenius]

Servo mounts to the rear of the M/C and you need to run a vaccum line to the engine. I had a problem with my pitman arm hitting the m/c. After cutting it apart and rewelding it I just went withthe M/C alone. I will post some pics when I get a new camera.

[super vw]

Ok, well im going by the euro import scrap yard and they have a few 944's there. what years should i look for to take from? and what parts should i take? should i just take the whole front hubs, and whole rear arms compleate with brakes?

Thanks!
Jonathan