why the super?

[undecided]

i've noticed that a lot of GL's are 1302s and 1303s. is there anything special, besides the mcpherson struts, that you guys like about these cars? i am considering starting a new project and am just curious. thanks guys.

[Uber Affe]

IRS trans
1303 is only car w/ curved windshield
stock 1302 & 1303 are just more suited to the look with less
modification.
dunno...uhm. They hold more stuff up front and its only bug where the spare sits flat -not upright.
I'll think of more.
Just personal pref I guess?

[zen]

i have a standard, but the supers have much better suspension and therefore are more applicable to what the style is all about...performance. i would probably be in a 1303 if i had to do all over again. i am too deep into mine to consider that though. i have always preferred the look of the standard. at least until i see a really well done 1303 and then i change my mind again. :D

[super vw]

i have a standard, but the supers have much better suspension and therefore are more applicable to what the style is all about...performance. i would probably be in a 1303 if i had to do all over again. i am too deep into mine to consider that though. i have always preferred the look of the standard. at least until i see a really well done 1303 and then i change my mind again. :D

Performance yes! I agree with what you are saying, i have always preferred the look of the standard. at least until i see a really well done 1303 and then i change my mind again.
For me i love standards, i just love the old style a lot.. but like you said, once you see a fine example of a well done GL Super beetle theres just no turning away. I dont have a standard, i have a 1303, but i wish i had both :D stock supers look like junk. stock standards look nice. GL supers look "SICK" and GL standards look "fine" if not as sick as a Super. its all personal preference.

Later,
Jonathan

[NO_H2O]

Thats right :D

[Superman]

In the simplest terms, the Super was designed to corner. The front track is wider than the rear (unlike the narrow front end Standard) and the Super also has negative roll radius steering. All this equals a car built for the twisties, the Standard is a good light car for straight line drag racing. Two different cars designed to do two different things. Keep in mind that the Porsche 944/924 suspension was based on the Super's suspension, that in itself should answer your question. Now as for looks, that's a matter of personal taste.

[Chris Percival]

Because they are just great! :D

[jloh]

I'm thinking of trying a GL super....arent 73's the first year for the 1303?

I would think that this would be a great car to try it with?

BTW: the wife likes her 64 looking stock :rolleyes: so it's off limits!
guess its cool that she loves it though!

[NO_H2O]

Yes, the 73 is the first year for the 1303. There was a mid-year change in 73 from the 3 bolt to a 2 bolt lower strut mount.

[jloh]

Yes, the 73 is the first year for the 1303. There was a mid-year change in 73 from the 3 bolt to a 2 bolt lower strut mount.

are there any drawbacks/enhancements to the changes made mid-year? is it easy to tell which I am looking at? sounds like it would be...

[NO_H2O]

The later 2 bolt strut will bolt up to a 944 spindle with a Kercher ball joint. But the control arms/struts from a late 73-up can be bolted to a 71-73 1/2.

Look at the lower strut mount and see if it has 2 or 3 bolts.

[jloh]

i read on STF that the 944 f&r disc brakes bolt up....so in addition the later 1303 accepts the 944 spindle and ball joints? are the 944 spindles a different ride height? if so that would be even better!

[SilverBullet]

Then came rack n pinion. :)

[Superman]

are the 944 spindles a different ride height?!

Yes, they will lower the car slightly over an inch.

[Superman]

are there any drawbacks/enhancements to the changes made mid-year?

There is nothing on the later cars that can't be fitted to the earlier cars and vise-versa.

[jloh]

Yes, they will lower the car slightly over an inch.

man that rocks!

now i've just got to work this trade out!

[jloh]

i checked out the 73 super i've been talking about. it has the 3 bolt lower sturt mounts. not a big deal though apparently.
now i've just got to get a trade or something worked out!

thanks for the input!

[superb]

wasn't there a change in the steering from the 1302 to the 1303 and then changed again in 75. i thought that the 75 and later 1303's had a rack and pinion and the earlier had a stering box type i might be wrong

[oasis]

1975-79 model years had rack and pinion steering. I don't think there was a difference in steering from 1971-74 even though those years overlap the 1302/03 Supers.

(If I'm wrong, someone will correct me shortly.)

I believe the 1971 Supers did not have the collapsing steering column which I believe became mandatory in the US, and I also believe 1972 was the first year for the wiper stalk on the column. But I don't think those two items inherently made the steering different.

[super vw]

i think your correct...as far as i know and i have both a 71 parts car and my 74 super, the steering is the same. and it was the 75 and on supers with the R/P.

Later,
Jonathan

[Kataplun]

i think its a thing of personal taste, supers look great thx to their round little self, standards look awesome when there chopped and lowered, ive never senn a chopped SB and i think it would look wierd

[superb]

chopped suppers only look weird when you take aot some crazy amount i took 2.5 inches out of my 74 and it looks good most people don't see it at first unless there into supers and such

[Ephry73]

Superb, got a pic of the Super? Would be interesting to see the chop. Hmm, 2.5" chop and lowered all around would not be too bad.

Personally, I had a 1303 that was a joy to drive! I miss that car!

I like the front suspension a whole lot better than the torsion arm setup.

Looking for a nice candidate now.


Ephry

[KaferChris]

Standards...mechanically and cosmetically.

[Chris Percival]

Mechanically?

[Superman]

Mechanically? :cool:

[boygenius]

??Mechanically??

I think he is refering to the front suspension being easier (simpler) to work on than the super front end.

[Supa Ninja]

He might be refering to the Super's front suspension mechanically handling better the the standard beetles. :D

[Chris Percival]

??Mechanically??

I think he is refering to the front suspension being easier (simpler) to work on than the super front end.

I wouldn't even agree with that! :) How many grease nipples does a super need?

[Steve C]

Hi

Chopped 1302,

Steve

http://www.flatfour.org/hoodlum.html

[vdubvr6]

man steve C; that's one nice ride!! i love the interior! nice job!! :cool:

[Wally]

Then came rack n pinion. :)
Yeah, that is my motivation; the model '75 1303 is technically the best of the bunch. And GL is mostly function over looks, so for me that makes the 03 '75 the most logical base for such an car.
Because the Golf was introduced in '74 in my country anyways, they are quite rare here.

Walter

[verbeekb]

The R&P Supers are sought after in Germany .. the Germans don't settle for anything less ..

[Steve C]

Hi

That car belongs to a young lady I know, she has done a great job.

Steve

[boygenius]

Quote:
Originally Posted by boygenius
??Mechanically??

I think he is refering to the front suspension being easier (simpler) to work on than the super front end.

I wouldn't even agree with that! :) How many grease nipples does a super need?

You have a point there but with the exception of the grease fittings the standard is a simpler design.

Uhmmmm.... you said nipples :D :laugh: ...

[Wally]

I think he is refering to the front suspension being easier (simpler) to work on than the super front end.

You have a point there but with the exception of the grease fittings the standard is a simpler design.


but since when does a simpler design create a better roadholding?
These are not callooks, where simplicity is key !

Greetings,
Walter

[boygenius]

but since when does a simpler design create a better roadholding?
These are not callooks, where simplicity is key !

Greetings,
Walter
I never said they were better at handling than supers I just said they are a simpler design.

[oasis]

but since when does a simpler design create a better roadholding?
I never said they were better at handling than supers I just said they are a simpler design.

I believe it was KaferChris who was alluding to standard Beetles being mechanically better than Supers. Having driven fine examples of both, I don't agree; hence, I bought a Super in July as the baseis of my GL project.
Standards...mechanically and cosmetically.

[Aurumen]

I have a standard that I autocross (if we ever get a lot again) and I chose the standard mostly because I found it at the right time for the right price. But I also chose it because I had suspension maintenance issues with my other car and figured the front suspensoin was very solid on a standard. Plus I was sick of struts and wanted to give something else a whirl :)

I have never driven a super and if it handles better than a standard, that is awesome. My standard ain't to shabby either :)

[Ephry73]

All things equal, the SB will handle better and give a better ride than the Standard. I wish my Ghia had a SB front end(hey, there's an idea)

I like the Ghia's ride now, and it's really stiff thanks to some changes, but I like the flexibility and simplicity of the Strut front end. After all, modern cars use the same layout for a reason.


Ephry

[oasis]

The Ghia listed in the "Do You Have a Tissue" thread has a Super front end. It is a feature car in VolksWorld -- my most recent issue, but I am not certain whether it is thee most recent issue.

[BulletBug]

can a 75 R&P be converted into earlier super? plz let the answer be yes...:)

[yellrhd]

can a 75 R&P be converted into earlier super? plz let the answer be yes...:)


yes it can it takes a little work but it has been done.

[Veedub]

Can a standard bug be made to be able to handle corners just like a Super?

[evilC]

Can a standard bug be made to be able to handle corners just like a Super?

No! the ball joint (or link pin) front end is inheritently inferior by a large margin. Macpherson strut cars can be made to handle almost as well as full double wishbone cars - look how many World Rally Cars use Macherson struts.

evilC