Lowering with proper geomtry?

[Mysticle31]

I'm curious what options I have with getting a front sturt that I can put Billstein/Koni inserts in. And allows me to lower the front of my 1972 Super Beetle without upseting the suspension geomtry? (ie leave the control arms parralell to the ground!)

[Supa Ninja]

When you lower the front of a Super beetle the control arms wil remain parrallel to the ground. The problem will come from the change in caster and rubbing of the tie rods with the body. The best kit I can find for lowering the Super is the Topline Maxx kit. It comes with a tie rod flip kit, caster fix bushings, and if your planning on running a rear sway bar then you'll have to upgrade to a bigger front sway bar (or you will have dangerous amounts of oversteer) and the topline sway bar has been engineered to provide a better alignment of the bushings and fixes some more of the caster problems.
I'm sure if you call John at Topline he might be able to put Bilstein's or Koni inserts into them. You get all those benefits plus the springs have a smaller OD so you can fit bigger rims under the fenders, and the handle great!

Nick

[Mysticle31]

So I can keep the control arms proper.. Excelent. Can I use billstein or Koni inserts on the Topline stuff? Can I use higher rate springs too? They arn't like some custom spring? (I'd love to see 120-150 on there. I love nice FIRM rides. not bone jaring but nice and FIRM. I want hardly any 'nose dive' or squat or lean.

[Supa Ninja]

Here is how my 1302 is set-up. Up front: Maxx Struts in front, with the generic gas inserts, 7/8" topline front sway bar, tie-rod end flip kit, urethane bushings.
In back(it's all going to change when I install the wide 944 alloy arms: Adjustable spring plate, 3/4" sway bar, with some gr2's.
You can walk up to the side and try to push the car above the door and it might budge 1/8". A very stiff ride, you don't want to ride in it if you have to go to the bathroom. I never noticed nose dive, but it squatted a little because of the stock torsion bars.
All that talk about the different spring rates doesn't apply to a aircooled VW because our weight bias is very different then a front engined car. You don't want the spring rate too stiff cause then if there are inperfections in the road you'll loose traction while your tires are bouncing over it. The springs in the maxx kit i believe are the rears off a civic or a gti don't quote me but the are more then enough. As far as handling goes, you will be very pleased with that set-up. Don't froget tires are very important. You'll need to contact Topline to see if they can use Koni's or Bilstein inserts, ask John some of your questions, he's very knowledgable about Super Beetles.

Nick

[Mysticle31]

I would love to know what exactly you did to your rear end to get it that stiff. That's about what I'm looking for. Just like my Jetta (it moves, mabey half an inch to an inch if you go jump on the bumper. 300lb fronts 200lb rears)

How much does the front move? How much lean do you get in corners?

Tires are most important. I've got 3 inch wider fenders on all four corners. I want to put the biggest tire I can muster on the front. and go up one or two sizes and put that on the rear. (wooh..no real bumpy roads..Horrid sprung to unsprung weight ratio!) does your rear end or front end ever hop around on you? (mine can :D :mad: :mad: )

[Mysticle31]

I love telepathic handeling, you think...it goes.

[Mysticle31]

What are the plans for the future of your car? Is it better to have wider track for handeling purposes? (ie wider arms)

[Supa Ninja]

The normal response from my passengers, "it feels like a go cart". I have to warn the passengers before i make a aggessive lane change so they don't bounce their heads off the glass. I'm widening the track in the rear to make room for the 9" cup wheels and I think it will help the handling(Super Beetles front track is wider then the rear's, I want to correct that). Also I'm going to need to stiffen up the rear with 944 torsion bars because I'm going to install a Porsche 901 tranny and Type IV engine, both of which will add weight.
I get no wheel hop in the corners, it's a real nice combo. All I need is bigger brakes and more hp then it will tear up the corners. I hope this helps.

[Mysticle31]

So. Assuming a stock SB (with Adjust-a-struts in the front) what do I have to do to get your suspension stiffness. Sounds perfect. I am looking to shove wide tires on the back of mine as well..

[Mysticle31]

Alright, so I bought how to make your car handle. And I've learned a bunch. What I want is a nice firm ride not painful or bone jaring. Mabey slightly lowered in the rear, a lil more in the front mabey (helps weight transfer too!) What is the best way to do it? IE what rear stuff to use and what front stuff do I use? the control arms MUST remain paralell to the ground!

The car I'm lookin at has 3 inch wider fenders on it that's a LOTTA tire!! This car is going to be dry traction city! Unsprung weight becomes an issue..

[Mysticle31]

I've got a bit of a correction, in looking at the geomitry in order to have the proper roll center distance from the CG. I'd like it to be say .5 inches higher on the inside then the ouside. It depends on what springrates I use. Will Adjust-a-struts do that?

And I need to keep a wide tire flat on the ground. Well actually I want the camber to go more negative as the suspension compresses so that when the body rolls during cornering, causing the suspension compression, the tire stays perpendicular to the ground, or even angled in a little (because the tire rubber deforms) so that the contact patch remains flat to the ground.

Makes me wonder. I need to tear into the rear suspension too..

[Mysticle31]

Does anyone know? I'd like to have an extra fun car that can handle with the best of them (944, M3, 911, Elise, Type R, RX7, WRX, low end exotics) IE if their not careful the little mullholland bug go wooh hooh..


And if I could lower the front of the car with proper geomatry my goodness! :eek: Then I could focus on the rear suspension :p

[Mysticle31]

Oh yeah, mods to track width always helpful..