Painting Vent Windows???

[Kafer_Mike]

I pulled the vent windows out of the doors of my '69 Beetle last night and removed all the felt/rubber seals. I'd like to paint the window frames black. Can they be powder coated? If yes, I'd assume I need to remove the glass to do it due to the heat required for curing. What about simply using standard "bumper black" rattle can paint? Anyone done either method???

[justdubbin]

Hi Mike,
Beetles aren't my thing so I'm going from memory here!!
I take it the window frames are chrome?? like on the bay bus, if so you will need to get the chrome sand/shot/media blasted then you can have the finished however you like but care must be taken as I think you will need to dissassemble the opening parts as these will seize when the paint/powder coat dries.

I hope this is of some help.


Rob.

[vujade]

I took my vent windows to the powder coaters.
Have to remove all rubber & plastic items.
They came out excellent.
For the chrome that goes around the big window I shot that with satin black paint after scuffing it up. Because it couldnt powder coated seeing the window felt is attached to it.

[Kafer_Mike]

For the chrome that goes around the big window I shot that with satin black paint after scuffing it up.
I assume you're talking about the larger door glass and trim. What did you do for the glass in the vent window? Does it have to come out prior to powder coating? How do you remove it and reinstall it? I can't tell if it has a seal or is siliconed into the frame.

[Bill K.]

I'm powdercoating all my 70 bug window trim (wing, door, and popout). Here's how I'm doing it:
1. Drill out the upper rivets for the wing window hinges -- replace w/ new (http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=N136612) for assembly. Loosen lower clamp and pull wing from frame.
2. Remove wing glass by prying frame loose. See wolfsburgwest (http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=221845295A ) for new sealing rubber.
3. Drill out wing lock rivets -- replace with new (http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=N134251) for assembly.
4. Remove wing lock black handle by drilling out flared pivot pin. Drill and tap for 4-40 to replace pivot pin with cap screw. Powdercoat the wing lock seperate from the frame.
5. Remove wing frame plastic pivot -- it'll cook in cure oven... Remove felt channel.
6. Remove window trim from door. Remove rubber wipers from trim by prying loose the clips.
7. Remove popout windows and pry frame from glass. Mine were tough to remove - bent a little while removing, but bent back to minimize flexing after powdercoating. Powdercoating is ductile and can handle some bending for reinstallation. Replace rubber seal (http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C16%2D113%2D133A).
8. Drill out pivot pins of popout latch and remove handle. Replace pivots with custom turned parts and flare with punch after powdercoating (machining required).
9. Drill out pivot pin for inside door latch lever. Replace pin with screw/nut for assembly. Powdercoat metal lever to match black plastic trim.
10. Sand out scratches.
11. Coat with Cardinal 20% gloss black TGIC polyester powdercoat to match sheen of rubber.
12. Tint windows and reassemble. Press/tap frames onto glass with rubber seals while protecting with towel/wooden block.

It cost $200 to powdercoat all the trim/latches and a RLR roll bar/traction bar (Class A Powdercoat, Sacramento, 916-681-7474 -- great service). Pictures to follow.

[vujade]

I had both my front quarter window assemblies and both rear pop out windows Powder Coated here in Daytona for only $50.

[Kafer_Mike]

Great info. Thanks Bill... :agree: :agree:

[volksdragon]

if you look at my pics you'll see i've done mine.

it's the semiflat black bumper paint. the trick is to really rough up the chromes surface before painting. and it's alot easier than taking apart the whole quarter window.

good luck

jeff

[Jeza]

Kafer Mike

How are you getting on.

I bought the black trim surround (with the outer window scraper attached)out of csp in germany (It cost a load, and even more to send) it looks great, although I havn't installed it yet.

As for the small vent window, I think I'll scuff the frame up, mask up the window and spray it black. The "chrome" there doesn't seem very hard, so sands easily (on my 71 1302) and I'll use an etch primer to ensure it sticks well.

I don't think it will give a show quality finish but it will look tidy enough for me.

Cheers
Jeremy

[Kafer_Mike]

Since my doors are stripped down to the shells, I'm gonna tear them apart and send the frames in to be powder coated (along with some other items :D ). Figure I'll do it right the first time so I dont have to do it again in a few years.

Bill...Great step-by-step. How did you reinsert the glass and seel into the pop-out frame? I seem to recall seeing a "how to" where someone made a plywood form that matched the outside shape of the frame to support it on all sides while you "persuade" it intoplace with a block of wood and a mallet. Then agai, I may have been dreaming... :sleep:

[Bill K.]

Popout glass replacement was tough, but I learn some things which may make it easier for you.

1. When removing the glass, try not to tweak the frame too much. Use a screwdriver to pry open the seam. Then pull really hard to bend the frame open to seperate the frame from the glass. Don't use metal tools or you'll damage the alumimum. You have to bend the frame to get it off, just avoid uneven bending that will require a big hammer to fix when re-installing. Heating the seal with a heat gun might help soften the rubber for easier release (I haven't tried this).

2. After powdercoating (good call) and tinting (if wanted), wrap the new seal around the window with the seam at the hinge. Wipe a little watered down liquid dish soap on the seal to help it seat in the frame.

3. Start at the back toward the popout latch and work your way back to the hinge. Push the glass into the frame all the way while keeping the seal even on each side of the glass. I used a rubber mallet and a wooden block to hammer the frame onto the glass until I heard it seat. Work your way around making sure it's fully seated as you go (otherwise, you may get a big gap at the frame seam because it's not seated along the way).

4. Insert the frame-to-body seal through the frame opening and work it around the frame. Lube up the seal with ArmorAll and feed it into the frame through the opening. Push it until it wrinkles, then pull the fed end it until it's stretched flat. Over and over again until it's all in. Or, you can use a small screwdriver to tuck one side of the seal flange into the frame without sliding the seal around the frame.

5. To attach the hinge you may need to use a padded bar clamp like I did to squeeze the top and bottom of the frame together. With too big a gap in the frame ends, the hinge won't fit. A bar clamp worked great.

Here's how it looks temporarily installed (http://www.kanz.org/vw/Fresh%20paint/Popout.JPG)

Powdercoated popout latch (http://www.kanz.org/vw/Fresh%20paint/Popout%20latch.JPG)

Hard work, but worth it now that it's done. :cool:

The method you described sounds great for the wing windows -- trace frame on plywood and scroll cut; attached cut plywood to backing board to support glass; lube seal with soapy water; load into wood fixture; pound flat edge of glass to seat seal/glass into frame using rubber mallet and/or board/hammer. That's how I plan on doing it for the wings (next week).

Later,
Bill

[Kafer_Mike]

The method you described sounds great for the wing windows -- trace frame on plywood and scroll cut; attached cut plywood to backing board to support glass; lube seal with soapy water; load into wood fixture; pound flat edge of glass to seat seal/glass into frame using rubber mallet and/or board/hammer. That's how I plan on doing it for the wings (next week).

I swear I saw a step-by-step "how to" on this, but can't remember the website. :mad: Let me know how it goes...

[Kafer_Mike]

Found it. Scroll down about 3/4 of the page... :D :agree:

http://www.thebugshop.org/bsp57_15.htm

[Bill K.]

Excellent. I'll try it that way, but use bar clamps instead of the Workmate bench clamp (don't have...). Thanks for the link. It'll be a couple weeks before I get to it as I want to get the car drivable (windowless) ASAP.

[Kafer_Mike]

Got the vent windows and frames tore apart for powder coating. Everything went great until it came time to remove the lower frame pivots (white plastic T-shaped thing in the frame channel) which were brittle and busted into pieces when I tried to remove them. :mad: Anyone know where to get them or have some they would be willing to part with??? :(

[Bill K.]

Mike, bummer on the pivots. I've never seen those sold seperate.. Junk yard?

I got my wing windows back together. First, I tried the clamping method above but the frame seal (http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=221845295A) from wolfsberg is too thick for this method. I used bar clamps instead of the clamp bench, but the seal is really tight where the latch is and I decided to try another approach before going godzilla on it.

I went to a local glass shop and got some "bug tape" which is much thinner. Sprayed and wiped it with WD40 to make it swell and get tacky. Wrapped around glass edge. Pushed into frame by hand. Tapped frame home with rubber mallet with glass resting on carpet covered 2x4 board. Used two layers of masking tape on frame to keep hammer from marring powdercoat surface. Trimmed excess "bug tape" with razor. The "bug tape" is a good fit, but could be a little tighter. Maybe a thin coat of sealant inside the frame would have been a good idea.

[Kafer_Mike]

Thanks for the tips Bill. I did find some replacement pivot bushings, and the frames are off to the powder coater... :agree:

[Bill K.]

powdercoated window frames
http://www.vwbughead.com/body/kulhdub17.JPG

[Kafer_Mike]

Looks great Bill. Any problems getting the vent wings back together? Mine are still in pieces and awaiting powder coating.

[Bill K.]

Thanks Mike. Sure there were problems, part of the fun... Wing window lock mounting rivets need to be smashed for the glass to seat well. The pcoating builds up and may need messaging to get good fits. Not too bad, well worth it.

[Troy_Audio]

Nice mirror Bill..
looks sweet
peace Troy

[shuff]

Had all the chrome frames on my cabrio, powdercoated satin black, including the qtr/vent light supports. Took the latches off them first though. You could have the upright bar in your doors coated, just have to remove and replace the felt channel after. They came out superb. Well worth it.

[Kafer_Mike]

Finally got the powder coated vent windows back together and installed with the new seals and scrapers. Thanks for the earlier tips Bill... ;)

http://www.kafertek.com/gallery/project/Dsc01431.jpg

[Bill K.]

Lookin' good Mike.

[super vw]

I went a diffrent route with my trim (pop outs, vents windows, scraper trim...ect) I did normal paint prep and shot it all with SEM trim black (semi gloss, looks sharp). I have used this stuff on many applications, including door handles on my Vanagon syncro and it's been holding up VERY well, so i decided it wasn't worth the time/ money to have it all powdercoated. Im kinda partial to paint anyhow as its kinda hard to repair powdercoat in the future even though powder coat IS more durrable then paint.