Shifter for 914 5-speed install to beetle

[Sandeep]

Hiya,

I've decided to move ahead with a 914 5-speed install into my beetle for this winter's project. It also looks like there are a few others in the GTA who will be attempting this as well.

My question has to do with shifters ... Why can't you use the stock shifter ? I have a Scat dragfast, which I really like, and want to use this. Is the only issue with using a stock shifter that you have to be able to get to reverse on the 914 trans ?

Is this a lockout plate issue ? :shrug:

I realize I have to "swap the diff" and use a 914 tailshift with a 901 nosecone and hockey stick ... does anyone have any input as to the issues to be faced with the CV's ? Are they the same as a beetle or 944/T2 CV's ?

I hope to look at a trans in the next couple of weeks and would like to gather everything before the winter hits.

I'll need a 914 FW/PP/Clutch for my 2.0 T4 and a matching starter to start with.

Thanks for any input/suggestions.

Sandeep

[NO_H2O]

I read somewere about someone (lots of help I know) who modified a VW style shifter to work with a 901. I think they modified the lock-out plate so the you could get 1st gear but had to pull the trigger to get rev. It would seam like you could cut and bend the lock-out to work.

[yetibone]

Yep, I read about that. If you grind the lockout part of the lockout plate down some it becomes disabled, and 1st gear will be in the location that reverse once occupied in the 4 speed shift pattern.

It can be done, but it may not shift perfectly.

CV's are the same as Type I if you have a 914/901, except there's two dowel holes and 4 bolts in the 914 flanges, and 6 bolts in the Type I flanges. Time-cert the 2 holes in the 914 flanges and your'e good to go with stock Type I CV's.

Flipping the diff is pretty easy, but you do have to take the gear stacks and intermediate plate out to get the pinion gear and input shaft out of the way of the diff carrier assembly. I was lucky with mine. I didn't have to change the pinion depth to correct an improper wear pattern in the ring and pinion gears.

Here's what you'll need:

-You got stock control arms? Use stock CV's and axles.
-944 control arms? Use Type I inner CV, Type II outer CV's on stock axles
-late 931,932,951,952,968 control arms? Use Type I inner CV, Type II outer
CV on 21", 33 spline Porsche axles.
-Longer clutch cable
-911/901 selector rod. This is refered to as the "hockey stick", but it's actually a 30" rod that goes halfway thru the transmission, and MUST be obtained, along with the 901 front housing. One can be fab'd from a VW hockey stick, and a 914/901 tailshift selector rod, but it must be straight.

then theres the crossmember,.. :banghead:

Once complete, :haveadrin (after the test drive)

[NO_H2O]

I have an early Aluminum nose case and the shift rod (I have a whole trans from a 66 911) for a 901 I need to sell to help pay for my other 901.

[Supa Ninja]

Here's what I'm doing-
early 911 case, intermediate plate, nose cone/ hockey stick, r&p and cv flanges.
914 gear stack, and early 914 shifter.

The 911 tranny I got was a Aluminum case and the intermediate plate from the 914 tranny wouldn't bolt up. It turns out the 914 guys spend big bucks to upgrade to aluminum intermediate plates and side plates because the magnesium ones develope stress cracks.
Also I want to run the 944 half shafts I got so I need to be able to switch out my output flanges with the later 901 ones, and I noticed the 911 ones don't fit on the 914 diff. So I'm going to run the 911 differential.
I still haven't gotten it installed but I have a good idea what I'll do for the crossmember. Good luck guys.

Nick

[Sandeep]

Thanks for the replies and helpful information.

I have the stock trailing arms so I'll use the beetle items and work the 914 output flanges as Yetibone mentioned. I have a line on a nosecone and hockey stick for the conversion locally, all I need now are the 914 PP/FW and clutch. Should be able to source those locally.

Now for the cross-member. I have seen this done a few different ways on a few sites and Lanner (www.vdubcustoms.com) had a few suggestions that I will consider. Fabbing one up will not be a problem.

Mike Ghia's site (www.performanceghia.com) has a nice writeup on installing a 901/911 and he mentioned he used a Scat DragFast shifter ... so looks like I'm good to go.

Looks like I should be contributing another tech article by Feb 2005 :D

Sandeep

[CLKWRK]

Hiya Sandeep,
I used polyurethane rabbit engine mounts for the front crossmember
Heres how iI did it:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bryan_abad/album?.dir=/ce46&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/bryan_abad/lst%3f.dir=/%26.src=ph%26.view=t

Bry

[ajracer]

Previously came across a site that provided some good info and
may be of interest

Link: http://home.cshore.com/scrawl/cars/convertible/


Allan

[LOAF]

While on the subject of shifters..

I am a little confused on the set up of the 901 (911) here is what Mike Ghia wrote : I use a Scat Dragfast so this was not necessary on my Beetle. I just pull up the lever and pull back for first while reverse is directly in front of it. Just be careful going from 1st to 2nd. It takes practice, as any early 911, 914 or 924 GT owner will tell you."

I take it that first is not in the usual spot..

Alex

[Sandeep]

First on a 901 box is where reverse is on a stock T1 box. Reverse on a 901 box is directly in front of 1st.

901 box:

R 2 4
| | |
-----
| | |
1 3 5

If you have a Scat DragFast shifter, you can shift into reverse and 1st on a 901 box without having to change to a 911/914 shifter. This is my understanding.

Sandeep

[LOAF]

Now this makes sense..

With the drag is there a gate lock to prevent going into reverse or reverse and first..

In other words I have to lift the lock to go into either one or is the lock just for reverse...

THis seems like a good option.. not to familiar with the shifter, but if I don't have to graft a 914 or 911 shifter then saves me time and money..
But this is quite tricky... I will have to paste a copy of the pattern in nice big bold letters to prevent going into reversre..
Thanks
Alex

[Sandeep]

I just picked up my 914/11 trans and 914 pp/fw/clutch this afternoon. I'm working on removing the gear stack this week and then flipping the ring gear. Here's another excellent resource for information ... http://home.san.rr.com/pb914/rebuild/

This will help in removing the gear stack. When flipping the diff, I'm assuming you remove the whole diff assembly and then install it rotated 180 deg on the vertical plane ? I don't have a shop manual but is this a pic of the diff "flipped" ?

http://home.cshore.com/scrawl/cars/convertible/transswap/SideViewFlippedDifferential.JPG

Pic from http://home.cshore.com

I guess I will find out when I remove the side cover :eek:

Looking forward to a 5th gear ! :D

Sandeep

[Supa Ninja]

That's how it should look when you put it together Sandeep. On the 914 tranny when you pull the side cover it will make a lil more sense.

[Sandeep]

I had finished fabbing up my shiftrod last night (2 u-joints and a buggy shift rod shortening kit, using modified stock T1 shiftrod) and I can confirm that the Scat Dragfast shifter does work with the 901 tranny. :D

2-5 gears are where stock 1-4 gears are on a T1 gearbox. To access 1st on the 901, I pull up on the reverse lockout and shift ( to where reverse is on a T1) and reverse on the 901 is straight ahead of 1st.

Looking forward to the snow melting now so I can drive !!!

Sandeep

[73notch]

clkwrk, how come your transmission case looks different? did you use the 4 speed version?

[CLKWRK]

hi,

I am using an early 912 5 speed
they have an aluminum case instead of mag
they are often reffered to as smoothies because they lack the reinforcement ribs on the outside.
It fit nicley with minimal trimming of the horns, it does however lack the engine mount flanges on the bellhousing, i had to weld some in

cheers bry

[Sandeep]

I've had the bug on the road for a day now, thrashing it :D

The Scat shifter is AMAZING when its used in this conversion .. lift the T handle up and shift into first. To get to second just shift to second .... no worrying about shifting into reverse as the lockout mechanism takes care of it for you.

Drag race starts are no problem ... shifts like my original 4 speed except I have 5 gears HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!! :laugh:

To summarize, this shifter ROCKS.

Sandeep

[CLKWRK]

Hey

what kind of scat shifter are you using? have you modified it?........I want one too.

Bry :o

[bow]

hi,

i know this is kind of a late post but what is the differance between a 901 and a 914 trans. i too want to put a 914-901 trans in my car but idk what trans to buy do i buy a 914 trans or a 901 trans? help im confused

[wrenchnride247]

The 901 would be your better choice. The 914 drivetrian is mid engine set-up. So, the trannys diff would have to be "flipped". Then there are two types of 914 trannys. A "tail shift" and "side shift" style. The tail shift would be easier to change. For that you would have to locate a 901 nose cone, or go with bugat5speed's conversion parts. The side shift model is not a good choice for conversions. A good note about the 914 tranny is if you choose a typeIV motor(which is basically the same as the 914) for your project the gearing is set for that engine type already:D

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Bow send me your email.. I will reply with some good info for you..

VR
ALex

[Bugat5speed]

The 901 gearbox is easier to convert for Beetle installation, but in the end it´s mostly not the better choice. The gears ratios in the 901 are much shorter than of the 914. If you use a high revving type 1 engine (upto 7.000) then you can work with a 901. If you use f.e. a type 4 2.4 or 2.7, then I would never recommend a 901. With the 914 your car will go more than 25 km/h faster in the 5th, or you will go 100 km/h at 3.000 revvs with the 901 and 114 with the 914 (both with equal wheels).
Normally the old gearboxes have to be opened and revised anyway, so it makes no difference if you take a 901 or do additionally flip the diff in the 914. If you have to adjust dogteeth (with synchrorings and synchro sleeves) you have to take the gearbox into bits. Then you have to set the R&P anyway.
But if you take the 914, then prefer the usage of the tailshifter, as there are less parts that have to be exchanged by 901-parts (only the shift rod that comes out of the nose cone).
For more info, please send me an email: info@bugat5speed.de, or contact Alex at bugat5speed@yahoo.com.
Cheers Martin

[CLKWRK]

Hi,

My 901 tranny is stamped on the bottom 902/01 it came out of a 67 912, it has an all aluminum case and intermediate plate and is five speed. They look a little different because they dont have the ribs on the outside like the magnesium cases do, that feature also lets it fit nicer between the horns and requires almost no cutting, only a little trimming.

The neat thing about his tranny is the gearing, Though my top speed is limited I can get there quicker and its great for curvy roads, geared for the 4 cylinder super 90 engine, it has close gears like an 84 gti and it lets me cruise at 3500-4000 rpm in fifth. The one thing that is not properly matched on my ghia is the turbo, because when I hit top gear boost happens and I cant use it, so I plan on getting a smaller ar on my exhaust housing, maybe a t3/t4 hybrid turbo.

The shift pattern is akward and is sometimes difficult for me to get used to, I think if I did the conversion again I would use a 915 and put a 911 3.0L in my ghia, only because when I park my 911 sc and hop in my ghia I need to shift my brain into 901 mode(anoying)

Bry

[bow]

so i have pretty much decided on a 914 trans so what do i need to get other than the trans? < i guess that is what im a bit con fused on thanks for your replies.also the reason i wanted to get the 914 trans is because i wont have to have any adaptors for the engine will i? im not going to go with t4 power just yet. wich brings another question to hand do i need a specail clutch or not? also will i be able to run the engines i have because i have 2 i run at different times i have a 1600 dp and a 1915? will this affect my gas mileage with my 1600 ?

btw my e-mail is blewellenvw@yahoo.com

[bow]

adding to the post above is this what i want or no? http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=270564

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Bow info sent..

Take care
ALex

[CLKWRK]

Hello,

From what I understand, to run a T4 engine you will need a 914 flywheel, to run a T1 you can use a 356 flywheel or have some material machined off the starter flange (thats what I did). This is because the 901 bellhousing is a bit deeper than a bug bellhousing.

Bry

[bow]

oh ok thanks