Which do you think makes the car look more GL? [Archive]

oicdn

July 3rd 2005, 12:08

Stuck here....of all things, choosing rims.

This is the look I'm trying to go after:
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL297/2096820/7617171/101768875.jpg

I know it's GL...but see how it just looks intimidating sitting there...the deep dish rims make it look mean...but you can get the same look with regular non "deep dish" rims, I'm just stuck as to how to achieve it, lol.

So here's what I've broken it down to choice wise.

Phone dials 16":
http://i8.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/f8/72/bd_12_b.JPG

Boxter twist 17":
http://i5.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/66/22/e4_12_sb.JPG

Porsche Comp 18":
http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/51/50502/porsche_competition_front.jpg
http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/51/50502/porsche_competition_right.jpg

ROH ZS 16"
http://i23.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/40/36/aa_1_b.JPG
http://i24.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/3f/cc/db_1_b.JPG
http://i17.ebayimg.com/03/i/04/39/19/f1_1_b.JPG

I'm really stuck as to what I want. I really liked that one black super on here with black phone dials, kakarottt's ride (http://www.germanlook.com/Images/MembersRides/42a231ed72452_2.jpg) But they're only 16. Gonna have a kinda fatty tire on there, but it didn't look bad on the afore mentioned Super....also, they're not staggered rims (wider in back than front)...

Boxter twists and the turbo twists are so similar it's almost (IMO atleast) pointless to pay the extra for the turbo twists. The plus is that thier 17's....

The Porsche Comp. REALLY DIG the look. DEEP dish makes the car look thicker. And it doesn't look like the cheesy cheap BBS wheels you commonly see. Only negative is that they're 18's....I'm planning on widened fenders anyhow, but I'm unsure as to if the weight difference in the wheels compared to a 17 or 16 is negligible with these specific wheels.

The ROH ZS....nice looking, not DEEP, but still nice looking. Only drawback is it's a 16.....again, with the fatty tire....it might look "cheap"....

As far as asthetics go, I think wheels make or break a car....I'm just WAAAAY unsure about which to pick....Also, I want to somewhat be different, straying away fromt he typical Porsche Cups or Twists wheels, but still stay "german look".....what are your opinions?

rip

July 3rd 2005, 14:48

ive been partial to the boxter twists, was seriously concidering these before I went jap import stuff.

But as far as what looks german look well... as long as its >16" in dia I think it's gl. people have different definitions, but in the end I'd go with what you like, not a based on a look.

How far are you? possible go the import route, tons of wheels there just gotta make sure their good, a lot of crap out there. but if you havn't got brakes or your rotors studed for pcd well might be a good alternative.

easy
rip

oicdn

July 3rd 2005, 23:40

Well, I snagged me up some of these:

Porsche Comp 18":
http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/51/50502/porsche_competition_front.jpg
http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/51/50502/porsche_competition_right.jpg

I know I'm definitly going to need spacers. I'm just unsure as to how much to have.

Here's the specs of the wheels:
Size (front) 18x8.5
Size (rear) 18x10
Offset 52MM

My set-up:
87 Porsche 944T calipers and rotor
Machined hub/spindle from VDub (not done yet)
86 944T Rear control arms, hubs, etc.....

I also know I'm going to need widened fenders, which I plan on getting/doing along with the conversion.

Yeah, I know, I know...heavy, large wheels. I'm not worried about speed or power loss right now as the motor is the last thing I'm worried about. I just want to get my handling to TOP shape. But I don't think those wheels are too heavy compared to 17's like Turbo Twists, Boxters, Cups....I just can't see it weighing too much more considering it's not a one piece of forged material....but I could be wrong....

Anybody know what size spacers I'll need? Or what other route can I go without needing spacers? Also, what size tires am I going to need to keep the stock tire height?

jrinlv

July 4th 2005, 01:16

Well I love the car shown, but for me I went with 16 in phones because rubber is a fair price still, and I also thought about going black with them, I still might. But right now I think I will keep them silver...JR

rip

July 4th 2005, 01:21

well please tell me you don't have a super, as I don't think they will fit well. And when I say well I mean good turning and scrub with a super, that 8.5 up front is the problem.

If you have a standard well they might work, but you will need a huge spacer if you want your turning close to stock. Generally though people get by with a bit larger than stock.

let me know how much the brakes increase the front track and I can plug that into the formulas, and if you will be using dropped spindles.

Let me know and I can give you a better idea. But as is the spacer should be in the range of 2inches. That wide front rim hurts. That will get you to about a 20 ft turning circle (stock is 18). And just to let you know you'll need in the range of a 3 inch wider front fender to fit them. Can't you get a smaller front, the norm is 7 inches and well that still isn't "easy" takes some thought to get them to work, and 8's or even 8.5's will be really hard.

easy
rip

rip

July 4th 2005, 01:34

just some of the info I've gather from the past

Name..............width...........et...........spa cer.......dropped?...........turn...........%..... ......scrub
Lanner...........7.0...........38.0...........12.7 ...........0.25...........19.9...........10.8..... ......21.1
Trevor...........7.0...........23.3...........0.0. ..........0.00...........20.5...........13.9...... .....16.7
Trevor...........7.0...........38.0...........5.0. ..........0.00...........21.9...........21.8...... .....7.0
Chris.............6.0...........50.0...........8.0 ...........0.25...........20.5...........13.7..... ......4.4
Bren..............7.0...........40.0...........0.0 ...........0.25...........22.0...........22.4..... ......6.4
Dasdubber......7.5...........52.0...........20.0.. .........0.25...........21.8...........21.0....... ....14.4
nodose..........7.0...........55.0...........25.4. ..........0.25...........20.5...........13.9...... .....16.8
BWE.............7.0...........43.0...........15.9. ..........0.25...........20.2...........12.1...... .....19.2
Zen..............7.0...........55.0...........38.1 ...........0.25...........18.9...........5.1...... .....29.5
PaulGrey.......7.5...........45.0...........25.4.. .........0.25...........20.0...........11.2....... ....26.8

just to give you an idea of what others have done.

BTW my little "dont sue me" statement, I in no way responcible for the correctness of these replies, understand that each case is unique and that these are not exact. Use the given info at your own risk.

I made a sheet for my own use and don't know if it is correct, but seems right. The specs from above I found searching though this forum, so I'm pretty sure that is all okay, but the turning circle and scrub stuff well thats from the sheet, and will be off.

volkdent

July 4th 2005, 02:29

Something 17", 18" is a little too hard to work with up front if you want to get low, or go 17" front 18" rear. 4X100 will give you the best bang for the buck and there are A LOT of really good looking Jap wheels, but those Porsche Comps are as GL as it gets.

Jason

Racelook

July 4th 2005, 05:41

Porsche comb

Sandeep

July 4th 2005, 09:47

Excellent choice of wheels :agree:

On my '74 Standard, I'm running the same wheel size as you with a 235/35/18 and 265/35/18 size tire. The wheel/tire combo is heavy, 47 lbs front and 52lbs rear, but I notice no ill effects in driving. The car handles incredibly well and the contact patch of the front tire makes stopping a breeze. The turning circle is not so great, but I'm set up for street cruising/circuit racing and not autocross so I don't mind.

I could get up to 190 KPH with my old 195/65/15 rear tires (pre GL, T4 motor, stock T1 trans), and with my new setup, could still hit 190 KPH with the 18" wheel/rubber. I'm running a 901 now and 190 KPH is still not a problem. Acceleration is still awesome with the 18 inchers.

I am using 2" widened fenders all around so you don't have to go crazy on the fender widths, and if you use a front bumper on the rear (front bumper is wider than the rear), it will look close to stock from the rear, except for the huge boots under the rear fenders :D

I'm using a 3" dropped front beam raised all the way and CB dropped spindles. The front wheels (24.5" dia) are close to stock diameter so speedo is fairly accurate, and the wheels tuck nicely under the front fenders.

I wanted the section height of the front and rear tires to be close to the same as nothing looks sillier to me than a small section height front tire and a rear section height that is 2 times the size .... it looks like the wheels belong on 2 different cars.

I hope this information helps you out a bit in choosing your setup.

Sandeep

oicdn

July 4th 2005, 10:16

^^^ That is EXACTLY what I needed to hear Sandeep. Somebody already knows the stuff needed. What spacers did you need in the rear? 2inch wide fenders and that's it? Remember, my rear offset isn't 42(?) like yours, it's 52 just like the front...

I'm not TOO concerned about the turning radius, as I'm like you, not setting it up for autoX but still definitly have some sick handling....and the wide tires make for an awesome contact patch for braking. It's also definitly an intimidating and thick look. Can't wait till they get here. I'll just always be broke buying tires :bawling:

Yeah, I have a super...no dropped spindles...just stock ones machined for the Turbo 944 brakes. I know now I'll probably DEFINITLY need maxx coil-overs, cause I think a tapered spring or even the CRX conversion will rub.....

Sandeep

July 4th 2005, 12:03

I'm using an 18x10 ET 47 rear wheel which is close to your ET 52 (5mm). I'm using a hybrid 930/944T rear setup on stock beetle trailing arms which pushes out my rear hub by 23mm, same as the 86 Turbo arms. You'll need a 15mm spacer ... check this thread ... http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=303&highlight=930+rotor

I see you have a Super ... you will need a wider fender than the 2" I beleive to fit that 8.5" front wheel ... may need to increase the size of the rear to match then ?

Sandeep

rip

July 4th 2005, 15:43

Yeah, I have a super...no dropped spindles...just stock ones machined for the Turbo 944 brakes. I know now I'll probably DEFINITLY need maxx coil-overs, cause I think a tapered spring or even the CRX conversion will rub.....

with the change in struts that should help minimize the need of spacers. Maxx struts let you use a back spacing up to 6", so about a 20mm spacer should work with 2.5 wider fenders.

oicdn

July 4th 2005, 20:38

So a 3" fender should work, right???

http://markvfiberglass.com/images/catalog/fenders/F100_b.gif

Found those here:

http://markvfiberglass.com/catalog/fenders/fenders.html

Anybody have these type of fenders on the beetle so I can see what it looks like?

Where can I get 3" front fenders for a Super?

Thanks for all the help...much appreciated!!!!!

rip

July 5th 2005, 15:57

CCC makes the best fenders, but I don't think they are bigger than 2.5"

rip

July 5th 2005, 15:58

oh and CCC doesn't make flares

oicdn

July 5th 2005, 16:44

Wow...what an endeavor.

Sandeep, you said you're using a 3" narrowed beam, and 2 inch fenders...my newbie math equates that to 7 inches of increased space. Max struts with 2.5 fenders should work right? I just don't want to order something, then find out it's too narrow and be broke to buy the other ones, lol.

Money is tight...I'm oh so squeezing this by, lol.

Sandeep

July 5th 2005, 17:10

Nope .... 3" Dropped beam, not narrowed and 2" wide fenders.

If I drop the beam all the way, the tire presses on the headlight buckets ... looks BAD A$$ but I'd rip out the headlights over the first bump :laugh:

Raising the beam gives me suspension travel, and the tire is covered by the fender nicely, and nothing rubs when I corner hard.

I'm not sure how wide of a fender you are going to need. What I did to choose my setup was to install my wheels/tires and brakes under stock fenders and then measure how wide I needed to go. check the details here ... http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=175 You may try www.glass-action.com for some fender options ... I ordered their 2" fronts and was pleased with the quality.

Sandeep

oicdn

July 5th 2005, 17:37

What the differences in clearance between your set-up and a Super with Max struts? Example is our cars. Same wheels and width/offset....what's the difference in clearance bewteen a Super w/Maxx and a STD?

The only problem with measuring once the wheels, and ordering fenders later is it's a daily driver. You can see how this is causing a problem, lol. Double edged sword how I' need to do everything at once = a good before/after comparo. But It makes for one hell of a PITA to source all the parts BEFORE hand....

Thanks for all the help...this is making things a ton easier....only thing I'm looking at now is the 299mm 87 944T brakes looking "lost" under such a big wheel, even worse on the rear....

rip

July 6th 2005, 00:47

I'd wait until you get responces from the super guys, the std and super differ in track width, how the suspension moves etc...so the comparision will be difficult.

have you tried the super beetles only forums? theres a big one that most of the guy here with supers visit I'd give them a try, probably help you out beter then trying to figure out how the std and super compare

oicdn

July 6th 2005, 07:18

I've had an account at SBO.com forums for quite some time, but never posted there....tech info didn't seem as replied to as over here. That and the fact that there's like NO TRAFFIC wouldn't really help much. I've just posted a topic there just like 2 seconds ago asking.

rip

July 6th 2005, 12:28

oh hey what about post another topic here, may be people look at the title " Which do you think makes the car look more GL? " even though the subject matter has changed, may be that will attract more people. Though I must admitt this forum in particular is a bit slow anyways.

But yea I too drive my project as a daily driver, Hey if you want I can email you a excel spread sheet, its the one I was using to calc my difference in turning, i made it for my std bug, but should work for a super.

What it does is compare the stock rim to the new rim. you can add things like spacers and stuff and it calc where the edges of the wheel move. If you want it email me and I'll give you a watered down version so you can play with it if need be. Just remeber its just a tool and there are no guarantees. As i don't know if it would intefer with things like head lights or the front sway bar etc... it just tells you where you are at WRT the stock rim.

Frankly its a lot like the offset calcutor in the sticky post but I've added stuff. let me know

easy
Rip

oicdn

July 6th 2005, 12:40

I'll just change the topic to "8.5 wheel offset on a super.." Thanks for the recommendation :agree:

Went around tell me if this sounds right....

Quote from topline parts about thier maxx strut:
Allows the mounting of huge 16 and 17 inch diameter deep offset rims. New 80mm springs give MAXXimum clearance, and MAXXimum handling for your Super! With this new strut, you can fit up to 7 inch rims under your stock fender! Our current test car is fitted with Toyo 205/40-17 tires front, and 235/45-17 tires in the rear. It's a close tolerance fit, but it works!

Your installation will require carefull planning, as the kit will only work with rims with 5 1/2 to 6 inch back spacing (approximately 50 to 55mm offset). Longer wheel studs and wheel spacers will probably be necessary.

So, with that said. The stock hubs machined from Vdub increases your offset +2mm per side. I talked to Lanner and he said with the billet hub, it increases it further by +.50 to .60 per side.

So, if I can fit a 7 inch tire under a stock fender with stock drum brakes, with the Machined Porsche kit OR billet hub conversion, a 2in fender kit with Maxx struts should be fine with a 8.5 inch front rim..it'll be nice and flush.

It's only a 1.5 inch wheel width increase(and still mantaining a 52mm offset), as even with the billet hub adding 2.6mm of total track width, that's still only 7/64ths of an inch....

So:
Maxx struts + 8.5inch rim = 2in (2.5 at the very most) fender required lol

Unless, my captian obvious math is all jacked, lol

Now...should be fun getting all this ordered....

oasis

July 6th 2005, 14:46

The Porsche Comp. REALLY DIG the look. DEEP dish makes the car look thicker. And it doesn't look like the cheesy cheap BBS wheels you commonly see.
Cheesy cheap?

These look like the BBS LM rims which costs $1584 for the front two (18x8) and $1692 for the rear two (18x9½) for a Porsche Boxter. If nearly $3300 for rims alone are cheesy cheap, I need to rob a few more banks. (I thought BBS made wheels for VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche as well as bonafide open- and close-wheel race cars.)

oicdn

July 6th 2005, 15:00

I know BBS makes some sick wheels, but I'm tlaking about the most common BBS wheel you find on crap today....

http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/images/bbs_rm_copy.jpg
http://www.seamsperfect.ca/pics/E21/BBS%20whels.JPG
http://www.tuning-tipps.de/JPEGServer/Fahrzeuge/HerdeJ4_Sh.jpg

You see those on every old Corolla or Camry out there. I dunno why the Euro guys have such a fascination with them either...you seem those wheels ALL OVER THE PLACE in the VW magazines on Jettas, Golfs and whatever other car in like 14" size with tires that are too narrow for the rim and really low profile...yuck.

rip

July 6th 2005, 16:28

okay so here's my calcs

with the struts allowing only 6" of bcksp (~152.4mm)
then assuming your billet hub increase width by .55" (~14mm)

okay so lets look at your wheels 8.5" (~215.9mm)
ET is 52mm
center is 108.0
assuming a 12.7mm bead lip
your bcksp is 172.7mm
your frntsp is 68.7mm

Now the stock ones 4" (~101.6mm)
ET is 40mm
center is 50.8
assuming a 12.7mm bead lip
stock bcksp is 103.5mm
stock frntsp is 23.5mm

with the brakes your bcksp will be 172.7mm-14mm=158.7mm
now 158.7mm is about 6mm more than the allowed 6" of bcksp so see if Lanner can make those hubs a bit wider or use spacer

Now for the front 68.7mm+14mm=82.7mm and comparing that to the stock front space of 23.5 your over by 82.7-23.5=59.2mm which is a little bit more than 2", by about 8.3mm.

So if you want a slightly tucked look 4.4mm in compared to stock or a little bit pushed out look of 8.3mm compared to stock, it up to you, but this will all change with the brake's spacing.

good luck

rip

July 6th 2005, 16:37

So, with that said. The stock hubs machined from Vdub increases your offset +2mm per side. I talked to Lanner and he said with the billet hub, it increases it further by +.50 to .60 per side.

It's only a 1.5 inch wheel width increase(and still mantaining a 52mm offset), as even with the billet hub adding 2.6mm of total track width, that's still only 7/64ths of an inch....

So:
Maxx struts + 8.5inch rim = 2in (2.5 at the very most) fender required lol

how did you get 2.6mm additional track? is track taken from centerline of the wheel or outside end of the tire?

Think it's taken from outside of the tire, in which case you'd be looking at almost a 5" increase. plus the increase of scrub.

oicdn

July 6th 2005, 19:30

Maybe I'm confused with offset and track increase....I know on his site, the machined/modified 944T hubs increase track by +2mm

Here's the eMail about the billet hubs and machine work:
Nate,

Billet hubs with brackets and spindle machine work (if required). would be $C650. I can make hubs and brackets that would bolt on, but there would be an offset increase of about .55-.65" per side. If you don't want so much offset increase, the I have to machine the spindle.

If you supply the hubs, all the work (including spindle work) is $309.

All prices Canadian $'s.

Lanner

here's the last eMail I got from him about the offset spacing and spindle machining:

Nate,

If you want the high offset setup, then I can make bolt on caliper brackets and hence no spindle machining. They would work with stock drum spindles.

If you want low offset, then I'd have to machine the spindles. The price is the same either way. With the low offset setup, the disk is very close to the spindle (about 1mm) so there physically isn't any room for bolt on bracket, hence spindle machining.

Easy,
Lanner

So, I'de want the "no spindle machining" and billet hub option to have the most clearance, right?

Arghhh.....my head hurts. Maybe we're over analyzing this, lol

rip

July 7th 2005, 02:35

I'd get ahold of the guys at Topline and confirm exactly how much backspacing you can use. If 6 is still okay or is it already at the boarder of "your going to rub at extreme motions of the suspension". If 6" is already at an extreme I'd try to atleast hit that not over. But this may not be the case it might be Topline saying "hey this works but we don't want to be responsible if somthing happens, though 6.5" is still okay".

Remember too that 6mm is the wheel into the springs not including tire bludge. The tires tend to buldge a little about 1/4 inch or so this needs to be taken into account to. Because these strut dicate your requirements I'd get as much info on them as possible, how much is exactly too much. Once we have this the rest is just full-filling those requirements.

But did you understand my calcs?

Yea okay, so I looked at Lanners site. Those measurements he gives you are track increase pre side. So .6"mm wider on each side.

You want the ones that will increase the track the most, it seems like the bolt on brackets and the billet hubs will do that, but this by my calcs may not be enough, that extra 6mm remember?

So may be talk to him and see if he can increase the hubs to provide more of an increase or, just get the stock hubs modified and use a spacer.

This way you have the increase of the stock kit which is 2mm, then save some cash and spend it on some spacers.

Choice is really yours, the real problem with all of this is that it works okay on paper may not be what actually fits. But all of these questions being ask are along the right track. I spent a lot of time working out the details to make my setup, and though it may not be perfect I know it will be better than those who didn't.

But to do this right you need to know what your dealing with, you need the requirements. There is one option here that no one has said yet, may be try and get smaller rims. I know the apeal of larger rims, but with the 8.5 on a super it's sort of new territory. I don't own a super, and frankly math is easy, but me not having experience with a super you'd probably be better off talking to someone who has done this successfully.

Oh yea and the over analyzing thing well yea...when I started doing this I got some weird advice and some completely wrong information. One guy argured with me that a larger offset with spacers is the way to go, after I explained to him why its good, he realized that my point, that a wheel with less offset is just as good and eliminates the need for a spacer. The main problem with this stuff is that we can't go to far in, so if you want wider wheels, well, you gotta move the wheel out. In particular the stds can handle things differently as now you can use large spacers and then narrow the beam to make up for the inceased track, but supers are a different beast. Just remember sometimes just fitting isn't enough, you may want to turn to.

easy
Rip

oicdn

July 7th 2005, 15:12

Talked to the guys at Topline. They said that 50-55mm backspacing (5 1/2 to 6in) is on a 7in wheel under a stock fender. I'm confused...52mm offset regardless of the total size of the wheel is still 52mm from the rear...so I should be ok right? He said he's never seen anybody with anything wider than 7in in the front :confused:

Eitherway, he said I will need to stay under 6 inches of back spacing as that puts the bulge of the tire right up near the spring. So, yeah, 6 inches is the absolute most you can go with... So atleast that gives us a DEFINITE in all of this. So, what's the backspacing in inches on a 8.5 wheel with 52mm offset(should still be like 6 inches...but I figured I'de ask, lol)? Once we get that figured, I'll know exactly what I'll need.

I've been scouring eBay for spacers. $150-200 for a pair on average for the 15mm needed for the rear which are another definite expense. If I get the billet hubs this eliminates a TON OF work and money. Reason? I haven't bought the front Porsche hubs yet, so that saves me money. I don't have to buy spacersfor the front if Lanner can machine the hubs to spec so I have slightly less than 6in of back spacing. Also, I won't have to ship my spare spindles to him, saving me more money....

I'm starting to breathe a little easier, :righton:

oicdn

July 7th 2005, 15:34

Also, I went to that wheel calculator thing stickied in the top[ of this forum. I have no Idea the offset/size of Empi 8spokes, so I guessed:

Current Wheel Width 6 inches Current Wheel Offset 45mm
New Wheel Width 8.5 inches New Wheel Offset 52 mm

Your new wheel will have the following chracteristics:
The clearance from stut housing to the inside of the wheel will be 39mm LESS
The outside edge of the wheel will EXTEND an extra 25mm

Even still with those calculation of a probably wrong figure on my current wheels, a stock super coil is 123mm. Maxx struts coils are 80mm...that's a 43mm gain...that's more than the 39 required...

That also doesn't account for the increase that the 944T brakes give....

Maybe I'm wrong, but I dunno how a 52mm offset is different on 7 inch wheel than it is on a 8.5 inch wheel...it's still 52mm offset from the inside lip...

So...I wouldn't need a spacer...just wider fenders.......right?

rip

July 7th 2005, 15:45

hmmm I think I see where the confusion is, offset is taken from centerline of the wheel so the back spacing will also change each time wheel width is increased. check this out

http://www.usacomp.com/terms.htm

backspacing is the "T dimension" so the backspacing can't be larger than 6". That means anyhting more needs to be pushed out.

Empi 8's are 5.5" wide with a +20mm offset. But this was not stock and because of the changes in suspension the allowable wheel/tire combo will change.

rip

July 7th 2005, 15:48

the best way to measure back space is to put a striaght edge accross the back of the rim, then measure down to the face of the bolting surface.

should be about 6.8"

oicdn

July 7th 2005, 16:10

Alright...now I see....

Well, those wheels are in shipment...not here yet, but I'll measure and see what it is, but yeah, 6.8in backspacing sounds about right(I was figuring it out probably about the time when you made this post). Hmm.....this sucks, lol.

Well, I have no problem being the 1st to do it...atleast this lets everybody else know what's definitly needed to do it as well.....

Honestly, the reason I chose these wide wheels (other than looks and the contact patch) I kinda took to heart what that post said about "Hopefully "German look" doesn't turn out like Cal-look did....same set-ups, just different paintjobs..."...Seems like the tyical Porsche rims are already becoming common, twists, cups, Fuchs, Cookie Cutters.....gotta break that cycle. :o

oicdn

July 7th 2005, 16:49

Hmm...good info for people who want to figure it out.

I think the term 'offset' has been incorrectly used sometimes, people are confusing it with 'backspacing'. The goal is to keep the stock 'backspacing' not the stock offset. To do so you need to choose the corresponding offset.

Formulas:
25.4mm=1inch
centerline = width/2
offset=backspacing-centerline
backspacing=centerline+offset

So with a my front wheel:

8.5 inch width, 52mm offset
6.3 inches of backspacing

My rear wheel:
10 inch width, 52mm wheel
7.05 inches of backspacing

So....that said. I'll need to push out ATLEAST .3 inches up front to meet the maximum required for use with Maxx struts. Not taking into account the additional pushing out of 2mm per side (2.5mm to 2.6mm for billet hubs)that 87 944T Brakes/hubs do....

Well, that's really nice to know.....all I'll need is widened fenders and a SMALL spacer if I go for Porsche Hubs, or just widened fenders if I can get the Billet hubs to accomodate.

So, with wheels pushed out like this, what does that do in terms of wear and tear to your wheel bearings with the load being that far out? Or is that all negligible?

flat

July 7th 2005, 21:49

One small problem with your offset to backspacing calculation:
"offset=backspacing-centerline"

The nominal width of a rim is from the mounting bead to mounting bead. So on a 8.5"J rim, if you actually measured it with a tape you'd see that it'll probably by about 9.25-9.5" in width. There is a lip on wheels that is not included in width dimensions of wheel, and it varies with wheel manufacturers. Typically, experience tells me that the lip is about 3/8" to 1/2" per side of wheel.

Here's what I recommend for the front. Assuming you have a 1302 Super (3 bolt strut), the 1303 is another can of worms.

I'll use my car as a baseline, 17x7et42 (still for sale), 215/40 tires, stock disk brakes (ehhw..stock. sold now), .12" spacer, crx coils. I have no issues with fender rubbing (stock fenders) or coil spring interference (a good .38-.5" clearance). I have some problems with the tire hitting the body cup in the top of the fender (where the strut goes). This only happens when I set the struts really low, am fully loaded (I'm a big bone-ded kinda fella) and hit sizable bumps on the road. If I'm loaded up for a long run or something, I switch to 1/4" spacers. I had 205 tires before and never had the problem. I have a very good turning circle and with readjusted steering stops I don't have any tire rubbing in 3-pointers. The daily ride is an ol' Honda civic, and the steering capabilities are similar. No comlaints.

Let's put the inside of your wheel to the same place as mine. Since your wheel is 1.5" wider, the inside of the wheel will be .75" further in. Also, you have a 10mm deeper offset (.39"). So to put the inside edge of the wheel/tire to where I am, you need to increase your brake offset by .39 + .75 = 1.14. Now, a little bit of a spacer (.25) to prevent strut-cup interference, and the total offset required at the wheel is 1.39". The outside of your wheel will move out accordingly. So, you need a 2" wider fender will still allow you to tuck, and you'll need an offset increase of 1.39" (or so) at the brakes.

As for the bearings, there is very little loading on the front of these cars. Some tough guys can pick up bugs from the bumper. You may have to check and service the bearings more often, but we all check/grease them like we're supposed to; semi-annually, RIGHT? :) I feel like Jerry's mechanic on Seinfeld sometimes....

Lanner

flat

July 7th 2005, 21:54

only thing I'm looking at now is the 299mm 87 944T brakes looking "lost" under such a big wheel, even worse on the rear....

Time for a "Project Pepper" setup. Sign a blank cheque and sent it over :)

Lanner

oicdn

July 7th 2005, 23:07

So, all I need is just need a 1/4 inch spacer and your billet hub right(brake spaceing will be supplied through you for the billet hub right?)??? Atleast, that's what my retard *** got from it, lol.

Time for a "Project Pepper" setup. Sign a blank cheque and sent it over :)

Lanner

Haha, you know, I was thinking about doing that....no ****, right after I won my auctions on eBay, I thought to myself, "If I go 18s, I might regret getting these "small" brakes. Bah, who am I kidding, why the hell would I get 18s????" Yeah, now that bit me in the ***, :mad: . I just personally HATE the way those plain brembo's look...it's a frickin sticker. That just screams cheap to me...regardless who makes it, it's just something stuck in my head... It's the ONLY thing that bothers me. Hmm...how about a Bracket/billet hub made so I can have the rotor the sized of "Project Pepper"? Cause I dunno, already needing an adaptor bracket, then getting Big Red adaptor brackets would just seem very unsafe to me, lol. Now that...I would definitly love, cause I get to keep my sexy machined calipers, and only have ONE caliper adapter bracket, hahaha....

rip

July 8th 2005, 03:01

rip

July 8th 2005, 03:09

Haha, you know, I was thinking about doing that....no ****, right after I won my auctions on eBay, I thought to myself, "If I go 18s, I might regret getting these "small" brakes. Bah, who am I kidding, why the hell would I get 18s????" Yeah, now that bit me in the ***, :mad: . I just personally HATE the way those plain brembo's look...it's a frickin sticker. That just screams cheap to me...regardless who makes it, it's just something stuck in my head... It's the ONLY thing that bothers me. Hmm...how about a Bracket/billet hub made so I can have the rotor the sized of "Project Pepper"? Cause I dunno, already needing an adaptor bracket, then getting Big Red adaptor brackets would just seem very unsafe to me, lol. Now that...I would definitly love, cause I get to keep my sexy machined calipers, and only have ONE caliper adapter bracket, hahaha....

oh and if you want to spend more money well I think Lanner can fit 6 pot AP brake calipers with billet hubs. ;) But yea I drool when I get the new copy Racecar Engineering in.

oicdn

July 8th 2005, 11:43

Yeah...I'm just trying to push the limits, that's all....be the same, but err, not really. Daily driver, yeah....it's scary, but I think the feeling is a little better, cause it doesn't feel like you're just building a driveable model car....you drove it through the phases.

We'll see what happens here...1/4inch spacer and a Billet hub...that's now getting written down.....

shuff

July 13th 2005, 08:58

My 78 03 cabrio runs 7.5x17 et52 cup 2 replicas front and rear. Front tyres are 205/40x17 Avons with stock wings. It runs Kerscher struts with Kersher vented discs with 944 single pot calipers. Camber adjustment is set to max on the strut and track control arms and the tyres still occassionally rub but i can live with it, although i did think about going to 195 size front tyres.
Rears are same wheels with 215/45x17 Avons with stock trailing arms and early 944 rear brakes. Rear wings are stockers that i widened by 1.5 inches. No clearance problems here.
Pix to follow soon.