upgrading to disc: is it silly to just use stock Ghia parts?

[joetech]

Hi y'all, I'm new here. What a great site!

I'm starting to think about disc breaks for the front-end, I already have most of the stock Ghia parts to do this, I'm thinking of just going 'stock' for now.

My car is a 1973 Super, and I'm not sure just yet if it's an early or late model (gotta check my vin# and get back to this) but I think this isn't an issue with using the Ghia parts...

Question:
Seems like lots of others have Porsche upgrades or other hi-end disc breaks, is it silly of me to just do the Ghia upgrade? Is it the same expense, does it require the same sort of install (and/or fabrication)?

Cheers,

Joe.
--------------------------------------
1973 Super Beetle convertible
San Francisco, CA

[LOAF]

I had looked at the option, at one time..

I may concider it for my vert.. but for the saloon, 1303, I chose the 944 route..why.. because I want to track it..

You have to factor many things, such as how much hp, what kind of driving you will be doing.. if your not going over board, the ghia option with bigger drums in the rear may just be the ticket.. remember that you can also upgrade pads, and put some R-compound tire and get much more grip and thus stopping ability..

Bottom line its what you plan on doing with your car..

As far as 944 somewhat straight fwd.. except for which M/C to use.. Kersher if you have the money seems like another option..

Other will chime it, but again, it depends on what your upto..
Alex

[Supa Ninja]

So Cal Imports has a front disc brake kit for super's, and it's only $150. With those kinds of prices I wouldn't even consider trying to fab up you own ghia style front brakes. I'm looking at going that that route for the mean time, but i'll be the rear disc also. One thing the ghia brakes have over the porsche stuff is that it's light weight. Like previously stated by Loaf, build it to suit your needs. Disc's are far superior to drums in all regards.

[kleinporsche]

I will be going that route too but put discs all round and have the rotors drilled by a machine shop for better cooling. If you have good tires and lighten your car as much as you can, Ghia brakes are A1: I use to have those on my VW/PUMA.

Supa, last time I checked with CIP1(yesterday), the front kit was more like 379.95$US with dropped spindles or 299.95$US for a kit with regular spindles. The thing is when you change to discs you need to change to change the spindles aswell.

[Supa Ninja]

KP you must be talking about beetle disc kits, thats what CIP1 is charging but So Cal Imports is asking only $149, plus bearing and steel braided lines thats about another $75. Still a smoking deal.

[kleinporsche]

I have to agree. It's quite a deal, but then I don't know about shipping with SoCal. Cip1 is quite cheap in terms of shipping. BTW, what's the difference between Ghia and beetle discs? Are Ghia less expensive?

[oasis]

I highly recommend TopLine's conversion. Everything is included and the quality is top drawer. The brakes are KG-based.

I opted for four-wheel disk brakes. I don't know if the rear disks are overkill or not for ordinary driving. I do know I have avoided at least two scrapes since converting from the stock drums.

I am planning on a more exciting drivetrain eventually for my 1302. I am satisfied the brakes will be more than enough for my application.

If you are going to race the car or put in a monster engine, you might want to consider a Porsche conversion. I don't think my future engine will be over 140-150 HP so what I have should be plenty.

[Eurolook71]

I will be going that route too but put discs all round and have the rotors drilled by a machine shop for better cooling. If you have good tires and lighten your car as much as you can, Ghia brakes are A1: I use to have those on my VW/PUMA.

Supa, last time I checked with CIP1(yesterday), the front kit was more like 379.95$US with dropped spindles or 299.95$US for a kit with regular spindles. The thing is when you change to discs you need to change to change the spindles aswell.


I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Getting a disc and simply drilling holes into doesnt equate to better cooling. If you want a reliable setup for steet use, that wont break the bank, go with Toplines kit, I've seen and felt this kit on a couple bugs, from new to well used, and would highly recommend it. Another option, since you already have discs, calipers, etc...juat get the caliper backets from Topline, get the new billet style ones, beefier than the original. Vdub customs also has some very pretty, super tough looking caliper bracket for $90/pair. You will also need the hoses(whatever ones are "teflon-lined"), seals, and hardware.

Drilling for daily driven steet use is a common misconception. All too often, you will end up going through pads like crazy. Why? Picture your pads as a block of cheese and the drilled rotor as a cheese grater...get the picture. The drilling concept started at the racing level, not for daily commuting. I'm not saying NOT TO, I just would'nt. For true, usable cooling benefits, you need a vented rotor. Check out vdubcustoms.com for options that use a vented rotor, such as the golf, mazda, or of course the porsche kits. Of course going this route, the cost starts going up, be it custom hub, caliper brackets, parts, etc....

IMO, I feel that the kit from Topline would be good even for a weekend autocross car, much less a dd. Also, if you feel you need to upgrade the rear end, you could replace all related parts and hardware, getting the best possible quality available. For really good results, replace your drums with new german units, and have a look at the "super stopper" rear break shoes from aircooled.net. I've heard good things about them, and will increase stopping power. Probably some sort of ceramic material. If you want discs at all four corners, check out the roto-hubs from CB Performance.

Overall, you would come out spending less money, but have less of a wow effect...it all depends on what your going for...

Plus, with the options described, your still able to get a custom bolt pattern, (ie 4X100 or whatever), so you can get more rims to choose from.

Just some ideas....

[bean_8044]

dont drill non-vented rotors. Just get them heat treated and get a good set of pads

[kleinporsche]

Thanks guys. I had misconseptions due to a guy I know who drag races who had his discs cross drilled and it seamed to work well. I do agree though about the cheeze grater. hahahahahaha. also I thougth Cip1 brakes were autocross brakes: that's what I want. The reason why I'm going that route with 1 piston galipers is because: 1st, I believe it's enough for a 1915 0r 1966 engine in a 850 pound car, 2nd it's less expensive when you buy it, 3rd less expensive when changing parts, 4th only one piston per wheel to service: less time, less money, less complicated. i will check with topline.

[LOAF]

Lot of folks have purchased topline products.. to include myself..

Real good costumer service and parts are top notch..

I have pretty much everything except the brakes since I went a different route, and no regrets.. how it works on the road, well time will tell, as I still have her on Jack stands.. :) but quality is excellent..
Loaf

[kleinporsche]

With Topline I can only see disc conversion kits for SuperBs. Mine is a 1974 BJ... The interesting thing with them is that you don't have to change the spindles... but are the Super and Standard using the same spindles?

Also, does anybody have any information about the specs of their GT4 racecar?

[Eurolook71]

With Topline I can only see disc conversion kits for SuperBs. Mine is a 1974 BJ... The interesting thing with them is that you don't have to change the spindles... but are the Super and Standard using the same spindles?

Also, does anybody have any information about the specs of their GT4 racecar?

For your beam bug, check out CBPerformance for a front end kit.
The topline plug was for joetech, he said he has a 73 super.
And no, super and std bug spindles a are not interchangable.

[V.waffe 3]

I just ordered Topline's disc conversion and will let you guys know how easy it is to install them. I am impressed that the kit comes with everthing down to the steel braided brake lines. I am also happy that there is no need to change my spindles.

[Eurolook71]

Hey there!

Even though this kit has been used for many years now, it still is an obviously popular item. For fun, (and for the enjoyment of others) take pics and right your own step by step of the mod. They might just put it in the tech section.

[V.waffe 3]

Yeah didn't think about the lenght of time this kit has been around before posting, lol. I'll take those pictures. I decided to get this kit so I can have disc till i get the money together for my 944 stuff. I have 944 brakes from the spindle out right now. I have to wait till I can afford everything else though. I guess that this everyone's else's problem too, huh. I think that for $300.00 USD it is a pretty slick kit. Especially for those on a tight budget. Like me, haha. By the way how do you like your Kadrons? I have/had a set that I'm trying to find. I never had them installed.

[oasis]

When I was assisting my mechanic with the comprehensive TopLine install, I had a camera with me. I didn't take any pics because it was going rather quickly and I didn't want to incur any delays which would have meant more money. In fact, the most difficult thing to do was removing parts (the stock struts and springs especially) which had been there for so many years.

I have four-wheel disks on mine. Once I get the drivetrain upgraded, I will have a better sense if I need to upgrade the braking any further. I was pleasantly surprised how well the TopLine brakes perform and I am not so sure I will need an upgrade. If I do, I already know VeeDubEngineering (formerly VeeDubCustoms) will be getting my call.

A pictorial would be cool.

[V.waffe 3]

I just put my Topline brake kit on last weekend and man was a dream to work with. I suggest that anyone that needs brakes and do not want the expense of big, beautiful Porsche stuff or just need some disc till you can afford the Porsche stuff ( because who wouldn't want Porsche stuff) I highly reccommend Toplines kit. For 300.00 USD it can't be beat. I also suggest that you look at the tech article done by SuperBeetles.com The guy was a tad anal about the install, but it is a well written and easy to follow set of instructions. I took a bunch of pictures and will try to get those posted.

[theredbarn]

You might want to do a type 3 rear drum setup too. It is a simple bolt on from the backing plate out. bigger drum and shoe than stock. It's a nice complement to the Topline disks I put up front.

[V.waffe 3]

Will look into that. I saw the same reccommendation on the aircooled.net site. So, I will need everything including: backing plate, shoes, brake cylinders,and drums right? Will I need to step up to a larger master cylinder? And do I need different rear brake hoses ? I would like some Goodridge ss hoses like I got for the front with Topline's kit, but all I have seen is full 4pc kits for like 100.00usd or so. Do you know where I could get the rear lines? Thanks for the advice, Ryan :agree:

[oasis]

Will I need to step up to a larger master cylinder? And do I need different rear brake hoses ? I would like some Goodridge ss hoses like I got for the front with Topline's kit, but all I have seen is full 4pc kits for like 100.00usd or so. Do you know where I could get the rear lines?
You won't need a change in a master cylinder and you won't need a proportioning valve. (You didn't ask about the second part but I remembered that from when I made my inquiry.) I don't think you will need different brake hoses but you may want them. One option is to talk to Jon at TopLine. He may sell the anscillary parts that come with the rear disk brakes separately. He certainly will know what you will need as this is not an uncommon upgrade.

So, I will need everything including: backing plate, shoes, brake cylinders,and drums right?
That I don't remember as I opted for TopLine's rear disks. Again, Jon is an upfront man and knows his stuff.

[V.waffe 3]

Thanks Oasis,

I may also be getting the Topline rear kit if I sell off my N/A 944 stuff. Do you think a larger master cylinder would be of any use even though it is unnecessary? I have heard that a larger bore made pedal effort slightly higher, but also gave faster results. Have you heard this? Do you feel that it is worth it. Thanks again, Ryan

[oasis]

Someone else will have to answer on the pros and cons of a larger master cylinder.

When it came to the rear brakes, I was told it was unnecessary to go with rear disks versus Type 3 drums since the front brakes do most (70%) of the braking. I was locked in on wanting four-wheel disks for a variety of reasons and pursued that line of inquiry. I opted for four-wheel disks anyway.

When it came to changing master cylinders or adding proportioning valves, hearing they were unnecessary was good enough for me. I didn't pursue additional info as I was content to keep things as simple as possible.

I figured I could add to my braking if it became necessary. Until I improve the drivetrain, I won't know if it will be necessary. My experience is totally stock and my current TopLine four-wheel disk set-up. I am ill-equipped to compare anything else.

[V.waffe 3]

Thanks for the reply Oasis,

I think I will go the same way as you till I will no longer need to use my car as a DD. I would also like to point out that you get better grip from that other 30% if it is disk and also better distrbution of weight. Did your rear kit come with SS braided brake line for the rear, too? Thanks, Ryan

[oasis]

Yes, the front and rear kits were all-inclusive including the hand brake cable and stainless steel lines.

[V.waffe 3]

Nice. Thanks for the info and the review :agree: .

[krems]

im considering going with So Cal Auto's kit for $149...my mechanic here quoted me the equivalent of roughy $500 for a USED front disc setup :eek: :eek:


any thoughts/suggestions? :)

[oasis]

im considering going with So Cal Auto's kit for $149...my mechanic here quoted me the equivalent of roughy $500 for a USED front disc setup ... any thoughts/suggestions?
The first thought that crossed my mind is Are you comparing apples and oranges? In other words, is this kit just the kit whereas your mechanic is including labor?

My second thought is I have TopLine disk brakes and I wouldn't go with anything less. It is true their front disks are twice as much So Cal Auto (who I have never heard of), but their brakes are of a quality that even impressed my mechanic. I may some day change my front disks to VDubEngineering's version. If I do, it wouldn't be because of any dissatisfaction with TopLine (I'd keep their rear disks). It would only be because I wanted or felt I needed an upgrade.

Brakes are not something I would want to be penny-wise and dollar-foolish. My TopLine brakes have saved me four times by my count with two having the potential of being "total" wrecks with possible hospital stays.

[krems]

nope..thats parts alone in both cases.

in any case, i have a lot of time to make for a decision.

do Topline's kits come in the standard 4 lug config? or could i get blank rotors from them?

[oasis]

do Topline's kits come in the standard 4 lug config? or could i get blank rotors from them?
Yes, and I am 98% sure yes. My kit was studded in a 5x100 pattern by them. I suppose if you wanted to get blanks to do whatever you wanted yourself, you could. I would ask Jon at TopLine to be absolutely sure.

[krems]

months later and topline all round drilled kit is heading to my car :D :agree: