944 / Beetle spindles

[Pillow]

Are the 944 and Beetle ball joint spindles interchangeable? I think not, but I had to ask.

Can the 944 units be modified to work? They look similar from a distance, but that is not saying much.

Also has anyone considered taking 944 spindles and cutting the "nose" off to weld to a Beetle unit? Or any other way of getting them to join up kind of thing?

Seems to me this would be a good way to keep from machining the 944 hubs and still get an easy way into the Porsche brakes. I contacted Rizzag from STF and am waiting to hear back if he can do it. http://shoptalkforums.com/bbs/NonCGI/Forum14/HTML/000861.html

I have a local machine shop that might could help as well.

Just some thoughts.

[Philippe]

How about making a set of welded dropped spindles using a stock beetle spindle with the actual spindle milled off and the caliper mount and spindle from the 944? Someone mentioned this on the STF, but didn't go into detail.

He has a german website, you can use the google.com language tools to translate (though it doesn't work that great)

http://www.wolf-lunacy.de

[Andy White]

My advice... don't even think about it!

The heat from welding will seriously weaken the cast material making it extremely dangerous! I was strongly advised not to go that route.

Having bearing spacers made or machining the hubs is really quite easy. Take your beetle spindles and 944 spindles together with bearings, seals, hubs etc. and have a decent machinist do the job for you. Both methods achieve the desired results but if you have the hubs machined check that they are clocked up properly in the lathe. Far simpler, far safer and probably cheaper too. I had mine done for the equivalent of $90.

Regards,

Andy.

[Philippe]

yeah I actually agree, its a much better route to do the bearing spacers on a beetle spindle, for the reasons you mentioned. A spindle failure could be a disaster, and a bearing failure would suck, but you'll probably be alright.

But Adrian asked, and I had heard something so I shared.

I think the bearing spacer method is best, its the simplest method, and has the least probability of bad machining mistakes ruining parts.

[Pillow]

Yup, that sounds good to me as well.

I will just stick with the normal way and be done with it. Probably send them to Old Speed for Russell to do for me.

Granted I want to use the Porsch bearings over the Beetle ones as Sandeep has done in his conversion.

Take Care,

[dgluyas]

I am running Porsche 944 turbo brakes with CB performance dropped spindles. I have a sleeve that fits over the beetle spindle to accomodate the Porsche bearings. The sleeves I have available as a kit. They are $150 Australian plus postage. They are CNC machined . (You can see the front brake conversion under "Goliath" in the members rides.) I will be doing a production run again soon. If you want to order a set e-mail me and i will reserve you a set. P.S remember with our $ down under its 1/2 the cost of US$. Cheers David:D

[Pillow]

Hey David that sounds pretty good!

I still have a lot to do, so I am not sure what a good ordering time would be.

This seems to be similar to the sleave that is discribed in the Keith Sueme book on Performace Beetles (version 1)...?

Does it matter if I use the early or late hubs? I guess the spindles are the same?


Thanks,

[Philippe]

You're talking about bearing spacers that are interference fit over the beetle spindles, right? Which allow you to mount the unmodified Porsche Hubs with Porsche bearings and seals?

Is the exchange rate for $Aus to $us really about half?

[Pillow]

I am thinking if it costs $75 US (plus 10ish shipping) that would be a good deal and a great way to stick with the Porsche bearings.

I looked at Sandeep's technical write-up on the 993 brakes and he used a similar trick. I think he had his custom made locally though. Anyway it seems cool to me.

The only concern would be what hubs you are using. The 83-86 are different than the later 87-95 versions. And the wheel bearings are different as well as the spindles.


Take Care,

[dgluyas]

That is correct ! The 87 and later hubs are different and the disc mounts over the top of the hub. This setup allows you to use the original Porsche bearings . I can supply these hubs. They are beadblasted and we also drill the dustcap for the beetle speedo. The sleeve dimensions will not allow the pre 87 hubs in this kit . We are currently working on that option.
The rotors we supply in the kit are 280mm. They can be gas slotted if you like . The rotors are 28mm thick. I can assure those doing this conversion does give great breaking with the big 4 pot calipers. I am running the standard 19mm master cylinder with mine . The pedal pressure is great! No need for anything bigger. When you hit the pedal it makes you think .. Wow! I need racing harnesses! It really is worth the effort! [I]Its like riding a 12 second street car in reverse !:silly:

[Alex]

dgluyas,

sent you a PM.

Alex

[Pillow]

Hi David,

Here is what combo I am thinking about:

CB Performance dropped spindles.

944 '87 Calipers (I think normal single pot - Enough for me for now - plus they are cake to rebuild)

944 '87 Hubs

944 '87 Stock Porsche Bearings

944 '87 Stock rotor

911 Master Cylinder (not sure which one yet, need to do some research probably an early 911 unit)

VW Beetle disc brake lines, should line up perfectly


Of course the CB spindles will need machined for the caliper and a spacer fabricated accordingly.

Also the spacers that you, David, are making should allow the stock '87 hub to fit on the spindle easily and use stock Porsche bearings. No machining there.


Hopefully this is logical and do-able.

Thanks,

[dgluyas]

Adrian, your conversion will still be ok with the non turbo single pot calipers. I have run that setup prior to this one and the brakes worked very well.
You are correct about the stock hub working with our adapter sleeve as too. It is the same hub . The beauty as you mentioned is the use of the larger standard Porsche bearings.You can change the calipers later if you like and only need to centralise the caliper. The bolt holes on both calipers are the same distance apart ,so its easy to upgrade with these later brakes.:D

[dgluyas]

Dear Philippe.In a nutshell... yes !! Roughly half u.s.dollar.

[Pillow]

Sweeeet! Thanks David!

I imagine I will be ready in February or March time frame. Lots of other projects to get going and clean up before I go hog wild on the '56 project.


Thanks,

[kiwivw]

What sort of price would we be talking about for the whole kit:
Rotors, sleeves, hubs etc?

[chigger]

Well I thought about going that route and realized I didn't have the skills. When I started the CSP ventalited disk was not available as it is now. My primary considerations were price, weight, and availability. All this is only revelant if you are using porsche rims as most of the aftermarket rims do not have the necessary off sets. First I machined down a set of CSP Ghia rotors to fit the inside of a set of early light 944 rotors. A hub was made from the Ghia rotors. The ghia rotor was purchased with the Porsche pattern and the holes drilled out to fit Porsche studs. The studs and the outer rim of the hub locate the porsche rotor. There are two reasons I stress using the CSP rotors one is there is suficient thickness of the underbolt area for the modification and the other is that they have the porsche rim locating rim cast in place. Stock Ghia rotors have neither and will not work. As far as the calipers the stock 944 single pot and the four pot are still quite heavy. They all require a custom bracket so I went with a Wilwood racing caliper. It is not DOT approved.
There is alot of other considerations also. Brake mods are serious business. Be careful.