Berg 5 speed

[havik180]

Anyone have experience with this conversion ? What does it cost, initially, and what did it cost to have the conversion installed ? Worth it ? or better off swapping a Porsche unit instead ?!

[Alex]

I have a Berg5 but the car is not on the road yet so I can not say too much. I went this route because everything is new with custom gears. This will get expensive quickly with a Porsche tranny. The cost for a proper made Berg5 is high. The kit alone is about 1200$ and the you need a 4speed tranny. If you want the best of the best it is about 1600$ for a 4 speed, 1200$ for a Berg5 kit and another 800$ for an Autocraft case and then you can pick your diff.....from cheaper to a used ZF for 600$ to a Quaiffe for another 1200$. It adds up quickly but the price for the 4 speed and Berg kit will include a one piece main shaft. Berg will normally lengthen the main and pinion shaft. There are people that snapped the main shaft and the Pinion shaft. I have a lengthened main shaft and I am currently looking into making a custom one piece Pinion shaft with my friend in Germany who is a Toolmaker and Metal technician. I got a broken Pinion shaft from J-Sports that they sent me and they are interested as well.
Not sure yet what the cost will be on one of those. A lengthened Pinion shaft is 200$ from Berg.

BTW...even with a Berg5 you have to make some minor modifcations to the body and chassis.

Hope this helps a bit,

Alex

[lightning bug]

I'm now in the process of extracting my kidney to sell in order to pay for my 915 trans. build-up. I'm going custom gearing also. A good trans- $500-$700; custom gears- $500 per stack. I'm changing 2-4 so that's $2K (to change 1st its $1400); LSD- $2K; additional parts and labor- $1K. FWIW I was told my builder, who is a well known builder for numerous Porsche racecars, not to use a Quaife in a rear drive car. So I am using the ZF style 4340 chromoly housing diff (bombproof), used in GT1 Porsche 911's. I might add that he does use a Quaife in his Golf though as do I.So I'll be spending between 5-7K for mine. The Berg I might add is easier to install. Good Luck. If anyone needs any internal organs, please feel free to e-mail. Thanks.

[kiwivw]

I went through this thought process a couple of months ago. For me what itcame down to was the HP/torque that may one day becoming from behind.... In specking to Jogn and Aircooled.net his suggestions were that with LSD, Berg 5 etc i would be looking at $3-4.5K all up and that a reasonable limit for HP for this transmission would be ~250.

Given my intentions to install a WRX EJ20 behind it with 227HP stock, i decided to spend sometime getting and installing a 83 915 with "from the factory" LSD

This is not an easy installation, but i think it will prove itself in the end.

Yes i know that a fully build 915 will cost 5-7K, but at that price the tranmission will not be the first thing to let go with 300 or even 400HP (trust me... it will be me) :help:

[Alex]

If I get that Pinion made it should bump up the HP range to 300 hp for a Berg5.......so I hope. If you have a one piece main shaft the next weak link would be the lengthened Pinion shaft.

But they will not be cheap.....a lot of work will go into one. Berg sells a 5sp Pinion shaft for 200$. I will have a estimate hopefully soon.

Alex

[effvee]

Alex will your person in Germany make a type II trans 3.44 or 3.88 ring and pinion set? also the price.

[Alex]

I think the Pinion is a no go. The cost is way to high unless you are willing to spend at leat 1000-1300$ for a Berg5 one.
I also talked to Weddle and they told me that it could be done for 1000$ but nobody will start producing until you have an order of 150 Pinion shafts.

BTW,
even the Mendeolas have lenghtened Pinions for the economy and 5sp model. This info comes from Weddle. Only the high end one has a one piece.

J-Sports in Japan might still get a Berg5 Pinion done. I am talking to Yuki and he said that if there is enough interest the cost could be brought down to about 800$ or so. We will see.

effvee,

no other Pinions will be made. There is a company that does a 4.125 R&P I believe.

Alex

[jrinlv]

I was looking into a berg 5 and was having trouble coming up with a rough estimate of how much it would cost, There are alot of numbers being used on this thread, I would go for a far more modest engine, more like 140-150 hp, Any ideas of how much this would be? Thanks for the info in advance JR

[Alex]

The Berg5 kit is about 1200$. The prices in the above post are right on...unless the market went up or dpwn which I do not think.

On top of the 1200$ you need a 4 speed tranny. If you want closer gear ratios you will have to pay for those. It you want one piece mainshaft you will have to pay even more.

Call KCR Transmissions or other tranny builders and ask how much they charge.

I think a good estimate for a fairly good Berg5 is about 2200-2500$ done without limited slip diff and aftermarket case and some other exotic goodies.

Alex

[randyj]

Alex,

Did you get the one piece mainshaft and if so, who did you talk to?

Thanks,
Randy

[Victor H]

I have two Berg5s and think they are great. The initial cost is fairly high, but it's as close to bolt in as you'll find.
ERCO sells one piece mainshafts for the Berg5.

I would say that Alex is a little low on the cost estimate. My full Berg5 with one piece super duty mainshaft and close 2nd through 5th gears was almost $3000 (no LSD). The second unit I bought used, but assembled in the Berg shop, for a lot less.

There are enough Berg5s out there now that you will find some decent used units for sale. I have seen them for sale between $1700 to $2500. As with any used part it's buyer beware, so check out the seller thoroughly.

Re, how much HP they'll handle you'll have to consider the use. For drag race starts you're probably talking about 200-220 HP, however if your talking about street use with high HP, then a lot more. Don't remember his name but there is a guy who was doing Bonneville speed trials reaching 150 MPH in his beetle with a Berg5. Guaranteed that takes some serious power to push that shape to those kind of speeds.

[Superman]

Alex's post may be in Canadian dollars? About the Berg5...

Will it work with a Swing Axle tranny?
Does it require their ugly shifter?

[Alex]

Victor,

I think you are right with me being on the low side of the price.
I think 3000$ is more appropriate for everything except Limited Slip diff and Autocraft case.......maybe even a little more than the 3000$. My prices are in US $. CDN $ would be sweet......it would be a lot cheaper then :D.

I do not use the Berg5 shifter anymore. When I look at the mechnics of the Berg5 shifter.....every shifter should work.
The 5th gear is locked out and you have to press the button like if you want to shift in reverse to get into 5th gear with the Berg5 shifter.

And yes.....it will work with the swing axles as well. No need for IRS if you do not want it.

Alex

[Steve C]

Originally posted by lightning bug
FWIW I was told my builder, who is a well known builder for numerous Porsche racecars, not to use a Quaife in a rear drive car.

Hi

Im using a Quaiffe in my bug, what did he say was the problem? A lot of tarmac racers use them down here.

1302Steve

[DORIGTT]

Which case should be used for maximum strength and reliability for a 300 hp range heavy car that will be used in some time trials, track events and drag (limited) runs.

[Alex]

Best case that I know of is the Autocraft case for T1 trannies.
You could also use a single sided original VW tranny case from the later Super verts I believe. They are better than the other original ones.

I think it is around 800$ US for the Autocraft case.
Pics are in the tranny gallery.

Alex

[Superman]

Originally posted by Alex
single sided original VW tranny case from the later Super verts

All late-72 and up Supers have this type of trans (Standard Bugs may also).

*as usual my data is based on USA models

[DORIGTT]

As I am not tranny parts literate, what internal parts (without costing my first born) should be used?

I'm definately using the Quaife LSD as the one in my GTI worked phenomenally. What about things like stronger gears and such? I plan to use the 3.88 r&p as I understand that is a good way to go with the turbo/TIV with alot of torque. Sway Away driveshafts and T 181 c.v. joints are a requirement as well.

Any other recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

[Steve C]

Hi

Im using Albins gears in my 3.88 box with 3.55 1st (taller), 2.00 2nd (taller), 1.30 3rd (lower) and 4th is also an Albins gear but is the standard .93 ratio. Albins have a US distributor

http://www.albinsgear.com.au

Steve C