A couple questions about a 993 Brake conversion

[SoCalGL]

I need some info on how to mount 993 calipers and rotors on the rear of a 1969 standard bettle irs set up. What machining is required, can vdubengineering do it, how much does it cost, what parts do i need to buy,

already have the front mounts figured out ( i'm going to go through vdubengineering for that onces all the parts arrive)
also what should I do for a master cylinder setup?

Thanks guys

[wrenchnride247]

Have you tried a search in the brakes section? This has been covered quite a few times on here.

[SoCalGL]

i've been going through pages and pages but nothing on how to set up the 993 rear brake set up...

[Mikey]

I'm going a 993 front and rear set up also and I'm also going to have Lanner machine the fronts too.

For the rear I'm going with 944 n/a hubs, the mounting plates for the calipers, and the ebrake hardware. If you put the 944 rear hub, 993 caliper and the 993 disk it will all work together. You will need some small spacers made (about 3mm) to center the caliper on the disk.

[SoCalGL]

okay awesome,

see i have info on doing a 944 upgrade but not the 993, so pretty much same as a 944 but you use 3 mm spacers correct?

[Mikey]

Straight from VdubEngineering's site...

Incidentally, you can also use 993 rear brakes on the same early (85.5 and earlier) backing plate/caliper mount. The caliper will require a shim of about 3mm to centre it over the rotor.

Yes. If you use the 993 Rear calipers and rotors. You'll need the 3mm spacer.

[Pillow]

Just out of curiosity, could you run the 944 N/A rotor and straight bolt up the 993 caliper to it?

... Might be a stupid question, but might avoid needing the spacer?

[Mikey]

Just out of curiosity, could you run the 944 N/A rotor and straight bolt up the 993 caliper to it?

... Might be a stupid question, but might avoid needing the spacer?
The 993 rear calipers are 290mm x 24mm.

As quoted from Vdubengineering's site, "Early NA (83-85). ...with a ventilated disk (290mmx20.4mm)."
"Early turbo's ( 85.5? and 86) ...the rotor is ventilated and measures 299mmx24mm."

Here are some numbers for you. The early 944 n/a's are too narrow. and the turbo's are too tall. I found the measurement for the 993's in another post.

There are never stupid questions. I'm glad to help where I can, it's a good question. Took me about 5-10 minutes and a little site searching to find the numbers. I didn't know till you asked. ;)

SoCalGL, I didn't even catch the first time you asked about a master cylinder. Personaly, I was going to try a stock master cylinder, then go from there.

[SoCalGL]

see my plan is to run 993's on all four corners, my first idea was to run 993 turbo's but I felt I would be over doing it immensely also this is somewhat of a budget project with an average of 3 to 500 hundred every two weeks and I still have alot to do and 800 dollar calipers just seem ridiculous. Anyways when finding Sandeep's tech article on 993 turbo conversion I e-mailed him asking about his brake set up and he told me he runs a dual m/c set up with a bias bar made by tilton brakes so I was wondering if such an exstensive system would still be nessacary.

[Pillow]

Good info Mikey! I was just trying to think out of the box :)

[Mikey]

That's cool Pillow, I didn't think of it till you asked. :)

Here's a quote by lanner I found on another thread, I think it should be tied to this one.

I'm a little late in this conversation, but...

All 944T rear calipers are the same. The 993 rears are alittle prettier (smooth font), but they are the same as far as piston sizes and mounting ears etc..

Chris, try getting your hands on a boxster frontrotor, and then use that caliper you have in the front. I was mocking up up a similar setup, and I think it would work very well. On paper, it's about 12% more brake torque that a karmann ghia setup, with only 5% or so more fluid requirement. So it would work well with the stock master cylinder. Since the P-car caliper is stiffer than vw parts, the increase in brake performance will probably be more than what the numers show (ie 12%). And ofcourse you have a vented rotor with greater heat capacity and dissapation. Also, since it's a 24mm rotor, you save alot of weigh when compared to a 28mm setup...personally I think most that for most guys, the big-brake setups with 28mm and thicker rotors on a bug are a waste...they weigh a ton. (opps..there goes my business out the door......)

Lanner

Easy,
Lanner

[speedy]

hello so cal gl i have 996 c4 calipers on all 4 corners , a similair setup to you i used all the 996 disks but made some 5mm spacers for the back and mounted them on na944 steel arms ,go to ricola,s site he has a very good write up on the conversion , on the front i turned down a beetle front hub as a disk carrier it works very well and is the correct offset for the radial mount bracket , as for mc i use a standard 2 circuit beetle mc ,with the big brakes it took several attempts to get all the air out over a couple of weeks but the pedal is now very hard :D and works very well , if you go the porsche mc route this is only required if you want to alter the bias front to back , it is recommended to put the 19 on the front still and 23mm on the back
hope this helps
cheers jon

[ricola]

One thing to note is that when fitting the 993 rotor to the early 944NA hubs you will widen the track by 5mm each side because of the spacer, as Speedy says..

Rich

[SoCalGL]

so i have the caliper shimming down but what about the e brake assembly...
I know Lanner makes a kit to format the porsche e brake to vw but I was wondering if anyone had an install article or it so i can get a better Idea on the whole process .. i've searched googled for porsche brake set up diagrams and all I came up with was a " how to change your brakes " by pelican tech articles..

also what do u mean by " widen the track"

[Mikey]

One thing to note is that when fitting the 993 rotor to the early 944NA hubs you will widen the track by 5mm each side because of the spacer, as Speedy says..

Rich

Kinda confused, you don't move the rotor. Which I believe is what you're saying. The idea is to move the caliper in, not the rotor out.

Also, from drums to 944NA hubs is about 1" differance.

so i have the caliper shimming down but what about the e brake assembly...
I know Lanner makes a kit to format the porsche e brake to vw but I was wondering if anyone had an install article or it so i can get a better Idea on the whole process .. i've searched googled for porsche brake set up diagrams and all I came up with was a " how to change your brakes " by pelican tech articles..

also what do u mean by " widen the track"

I havn't installed my ebrakes yet. From what I saw ebrake shoes are expensive, so they'll wait till later. :laugh:

When you widen the track, you move the wheel out away from the vehical.

[ricola]

Kinda confused, you don't move the rotor. Which I believe is what you're saying. The idea is to move the caliper in, not the rotor out.

Also, from drums to 944NA hubs is about 1" differance.

I havn't installed my ebrakes yet. From what I saw ebrake shoes are expensive, so they'll wait till later. :laugh:

When you widen the track, you move the wheel out away from the vehical.

I'll start off by saying this is not personal experience, but from what others have told me..
The offset of the bell part of the disc from the actual disc on 993 discs is greater than 944 NA, this means that you need to use a 5mm spacer under the disc to stop the disc hitting the caliper mounts on the trailing arm when bolted up. This results in the wheel mounting face being moved out 5mm further per side than the 944 NA parts.

Rich
Is that any clearer?

[SoCalGL]

okay so I have the shimming down pat...

but what about e-brake lol ....

anybody??

:bawling:

[notch62]

Hi I did the 993 conversion to my 62 notchback. I was the first to have Lanner do the 993 front conversion. For the front I used a 944T hubs (1988??), 993 disc and 993 calipers. The conversion is the pretty much the same for the front either type 1 or type 3 the difference is the work on the spindles (which is done by Lanner). I would do one thing different and have Lanner make the front hubs instead of buy 944T hubs. For the rear I bought 944 n/a (from a 1983 ??) what you need to get is the plate (holds the bearings in place and all of the e-brake pieces + the hub. I got 993 rear disc and 993 calipers. I did not need the 5mm spacer that some people have talked about. Anyways I looked for ever about this conversion and could not anything the advice I was given is buy the parts and It will all make sence. Lanner is great to work with and his prices are on his site. I have a few pics with my brakes under my profile.

[LLVWGL]

I havn't installed my ebrakes yet. From what I saw ebrake shoes are expensive, so they'll wait till later. :laugh:


If you have the shoes, then it shouldn't be too expensive.
I took the shoes you sent me to a local clutch and brake shop and they relined them for about $40. (beats 140 for new ones!) If you ask any local brake shop they might be able to refer you to a place in your town that can re-line the shoes.

[ricola]

the shoes are also used in some model BMWs which is a much cheaper way of getting them. Sorry, don't know a part number for that!

Rich

[vwdevotee]

SO, you can get 993 brakes to work pretty easy, how about Big Brake kits for the 993? Has anyone made a BREMBO Gran Turismo kit for a 993 work on a Beetle?

[pantswagen]

i strongly beleive that the same parts are used in 240 volvo's
5 sries bmw's
and porsches

-you will find if you search on
www.eurocarparts.co.uk

that all the listings for rear e brake shoes end in '021'

the volvo costing 9
bmw 15
and porsche