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August 21st 2006, 14:23
Hey everyone, thought I'd share my project with you guys and maybe get a build log going here. I'm resurrecting my poor race beetle that's been dormant for nearly 2 years waiting for me to complete this project but was always put on hold because life got in the way. Now that life has been taken care of the beetle's time has come again. Since it's been so long, I want this project to move fast and I'll try to update accordingly.

My goals for this project are:
A wet weight w/ driver of less than 1900lbs.
350-375hp at the wheels
1+ lateral G cornering
Out perform a C6 Z06 on the racetrack
street legal-ish

So far I've already done a '86 944 N/A suspension and brake conversion and raced on it for a couple seasons. Since then I've upgraded to an '87 944 Turbo suspention and brakes (4pots) though it hasn't run since the swap. I'm currently working on a subaru swap (ej20 twin turbo) and bus tranny conversion.

Some test fitting with the stock tranny


New bus tranny, 3.78, 2.06, 1.26, .82, 4.57 R&P, superdiff, HD covers, and TO bearing for now

Gotta do this in multiple parts...

August 21st 2006, 14:26
First load of parts from Summit and Aircooled.net, I meant it when I said moving fast


Already found a problem with the new parts. Put the Corbeau FX1 seat in the car, centered on the seat mount... it barely clears the window, but unfortunately you can't but 2 of these seats side by sidesince they cross the centerline of the car. I'll have to get another picture that shows this. the FX1 Pro looks to be a bit narrower on paper so hopefully I can trade for those.


Can you guess what the final colors will be?
Also the seat brackets need to be modified to put the seat back a bit farther. I pulled the seat tracks back to their rear-most setting and this is what I get.


That's about it for now, I'm waiting on my tranny adapter to mount new tranny and motor to get final ground clearance. Once that's done I can modify the oil pan and rework the megan racing exhaust (it hangs lower than the oil pan)

August 21st 2006, 14:51
Nice seats!! :righton:

August 21st 2006, 15:05
keep us posted , i am running 275-300 bhp on the road from a type 1 engine so would be interested to find out what you think running 350 turboed bhps on the track if it is anything like mine a right handfull :D
all the best

August 21st 2006, 16:20
very nice but that oilpans abit low eh ;) ya I'm canadian

junkyard oval
August 21st 2006, 17:44
Keep us posted on this one. I have a 56 Oval with the same engine, but with a Porsche trans. Not on the road yet.


August 21st 2006, 21:39
Got a few more parts in today, 3" cat-less bellmouth downpipe meant for a wrx, accel edis-4 coil, and 2 of my 4 1" wheel spacers.

As promised, here's a better shot of the FX1 seat in the car, a little too wide for a bug. It hangs over the center tunnel almost on the other side!

Spent most of the day running around trying to find brake hardware. Had to hit 3 places to find the M12x1.00 fine pitch bolts that hold the calipers on. I'm wishing I hadn't misplaced them during my move to the bay area, and I'm kinda worried about what else could be missing.

Here's a teaser photo of whats to come. I had to try the 1" spacers on the back to get a general idea of what the track width will be and to test fit a fender to check for clearance. The narrow valley is the tire center, and center to center on the rear wheels with spacers is about 60 3/4". That makes overall car width close to 6ft.

Here's a couple things I'm trying to nail down that maybe you guys can help with. I'm looking for the resistance on a stock 72 super beetle fuel sender. I read somewhere that it's like 73ohm/10ohm empty/full for a stock beetle, but I don't know if it's the same for supers.

I've seen people with ej20 swaps that have a tiny belt for the alt but when I hit up the subaru dealership they didn't have belts in the right size. What kind of belts are these or what car did they come from?

And lastly I'm trying to determine what size of clutch master cylinder to get that will have decent travel and not kill my left leg. The slave cylinder is a wilwood 260-1333 .88" bore 1.38" stroke going on an 091 bus tranny with a 3000lbs. KEP presure plate. I've been trying to find anything about this for a while now but can't find anything relevant.

August 22nd 2006, 04:34
Nice to see another scoob project on here :D


junkyard oval
August 22nd 2006, 07:12
For the alt. belt I just took a small piece of rope and put it around the pullys to get a length. Then took the rope to the parts store and they let me look through the belts untill I found one the sale length. Tonight I will get the numbers off the belt for you.


August 25th 2006, 15:40
A little more progress on the bug these past few nights, some good some bad.
Got a few more parts in, koyo alu. radiator for a 93-97 rx7 turbo, 944 to beetle e-brake adapter swans for vdub engineering (very cool guys), wilwood clutch slave cylinder, and intercooler water pump from a 2002 ford lightning.

Test fitted the 1" spacers on the front and finally mounted the calipers (they don't fit without the spacers), and I tried the 2 sizes of fuchs that I have to see if they both clear inside and out.

6jx16 et36


I tried the 7jx16 et23 on the other side, I think it would be kinda sketchy but I can dial in up to 6 degrees of negative camber if needed.


Another project that didn't go so well is running my fuel lines. I ran fish tape down through the heater channel from the front and taped my fuel lines to it then tried pulling it back through. It got jammed right at the bottom corner of the door where it turns up and goes into the trunk under the fuel filler. I really want to use that route but I think it might neck down to small for the -8 and -6 AN lines.

August 25th 2006, 15:44
So frustrated, I put the on the back burner for now and tried to fit the new front bumper and brackets to see hom much I need to widen it. Brackets and bumper aren't even close. I got 2 different front bumpers and neither fits, so that will need to be modified. I should have taken pictures but I forgot to.

Next, I tried test fitting the radiator in a few different positions to see what could work and what wouldn't.



Had to trim the front section of the spare tire well some more to get this to fit

pretty much like (B) but a slightly different angle and different bottom mount

Originally my plan was to route radiator exhaust through a hole in the hood ala mitsu evo 8/9. But if I can get enough clean flow to the fender wells I won't cut the hood which will probably look better (stealthy) anyway. I also need to make sure there's enough room for the radiator for the air-water intercooler.

August 25th 2006, 15:47
I also took the motor out and cleaned it up a bit, flipped it over and got some detailed shots of the exhaust and oil pan. I pulled the oil pan off and it's soaking to remove the oil so I can start hacking it up. The exhaust will come next.





That's it for now, I think my rollcage maybe on it's way. I decided to go with a RLR weld in cage for racing. I plan on topping out at 150mph/240kph on the track with this tranny and wheel combo and I want something I can trust if the worst should happen.

August 25th 2006, 21:12
OH WOW!! The more I look at Subby conversions, the more I want one!!! Great job! You are doing some awesome work! Keep the updates coming!



August 25th 2006, 23:24
Sweet looking project. I like the pictures of all the new parts laid out. Another Suby conversion. Looks great!

You asked about the fuel sender. For my set up, I bought a universal sender and the correct guage from Summit. I'm also using Autometer guages, I spotted the yellow boxes. I tried to figure out the resistance of a stock sender. I figured either go with their gauge/sender and know for sure it'll work, or guess. I'd rather not guess with something like that.

Belt? The rope is a good idea. I worked for a little while at a truck part store. They had a guage to measure old belts if the numbers are worn. That might help in some way. They had a HUGE rack of belts. I know, I stocked it. :laugh:

I have a thread for my project, it may or may not help with your subaru conversion. http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7050
There is also a Subaru advice thread, it may or may not help. Just thought I'd throw it in here too.

My only advice would be to raise the engine and transmission for better ground clearance. Also, it looks like the exhaust is as low as the oil pan. So why shorten it? I shortened mine and I almost wish I hadn't. I didn't gain much ground clearance.

Just my 2 cent.

August 26th 2006, 01:41
Which exhaust is that? OK another silly request... if you unbolt your exhaust and have time, please spin it around and see if it bolts on backwards and misses the cam covers. I am building a STi Manx and would like to reverse the entire exhaust/turbo, intercooler, and intake manifold. I just have not had time to take the stock exhaust off. So I was hoping you might be unbolting your header....hmmm.


August 26th 2006, 20:36
Not much done today, got a pretty godd tan (burn) from spending all day thurs working on the car in the sun.

I really dig how you laid out the gauges in your dash I wanted to do something similar but put the tach and speedo in the center of the dash and the rest behind the wheel. I thought about hacking up the dash a little bit just to mount the tach and speedo higher for better view.

I want to shorten the oil pan but widen the bottom so i don't lose overall capacity and raise the engine but as little as possible to keep all the weight as low as possible. The exhaust actually hangs lower than the oil pan by almost an inch and nearly touched the ground when i got in the car :eek:

No problem, all the nuts were finger tight. The exhaust is a megan racing header from ebay, I tried a couple different ones but settled on this one. I tried to fit it on backwards for you but the up-pipe doesn't clear the cam cover and to make it work you would have to add a few inches to the bottom of the up-pipe next to the flex coupler to make it clear.

August 29th 2006, 01:22
So far my hunt for the correct clutch master cylinder has been unsuccessful. I've had a lot of "that should work" but no hard calculations so I tried to figure it out on my own. I don't want to go through the whole return process (or eat the cost) of 3-4 MC's to find one that works.

*warning math ahead*

If you start with the presure plate and work backwards it makes a little more sense. Next in line is the throw-out arm, where the bearing side is 1.5" from the pivot and the cable eyelet is 3.5" from the pivot providing a ratio of 2.3:1.
The slave cylinder and master cylinder also have a ratio (at least with my preliminary setup on paper, I haven't commited yet incase this math is horribly flawed). I have a clutch master that's 1" diameter and a slave that's .88" in diameter giving a 1.136:1 ratio. and Last I have a tilton pedal assembly that's 5.5:1 pedal ratio.

So here's what I came up with:
Pr = force needed to release presure plate ie 3000# (guessing here)
T = thowout arm ratio on 091 tranny 2.3
M = master cylinder/slave cylinder ratio 1.136
Pa = Pedal assembly ratio 5.5

((Pr/T)/M)/Pa=Pedal force
((3000/2.3)/1.136)/5.5=208.76# at the pedal :eek:

Now playing with the values a little bit produces more realistic results but the biggest unknown is how much force it takes to release a KEP 3000# presure plate. Next guess 1500#
((1500/2.3)/1.136)/5.5=104.38# at the pedal, still a very heavy pedal

Trying the same 1500# release force with a different clutch master slave combo, a 1.125" master and same .88" slave give a ratio of 1.278:1 so...

I wanted to bounce this off you guys to see if I'm totally crazy, or kinda close with my thinking here. Tomorrow I'll call KEP to see if I can get a better figure, but I'm more worried about my general formula here. Any Input would be a big help.

September 6th 2006, 04:19
Still no definitive answer on my previous question, just too many variables. I was told that the force needed to release the clutch varies due to clutch plate thickness, flywheel wear, flywheel surface depth and so on, and that the force needed is not linear with wear or different clutch plates. So I went ahead and ordered a 1" dia titon master cylinder, to be continued...

Work has been progressing, little bits here and there. I had taken more pictures but our net access hass been down for the past week (we're on a long haul wireless setup) so I couldn't update or upload till now.

I've been waiting for some time for a bus-into-bug transmission adapter kit, about a month now, and it's kinda holding up everything else. I realized that A) I was probably gonna hack it up to make it work how I wanted and B) judging from the kit I could make a better one for less. So off the to metal supply I went. With stock on hand I started playing with how the transmission would sit in the car, how high and how far forward I could put it. The goal here is to raise the transmission and tilt it forward a few degrees so that maybe I don't have to modify the oilpan or exhaust or modify them very little (optomistic I know). I had to cut into the body to clear the nosecone and to make room for the new front mount. I also replaced the type 1 cv's with new bus cv's on my old axles and test fitted them to see if they will still work. They are 21.5" long from a late model vanagon and were perfect for the porsche swap and type 1 tranny. They felt okay-ish but i'll need better measurements (and pictures) once everything is set in stone.




September 6th 2006, 04:27
I started fabbing up the nose cone mount from some 2"x1/8" flat stock and ended up drilling the holes a little too far apart. A little bit of grinding and its a clean fit. Then welded it together and I'll grind it down tomorrow. Here's what I'm thinking for a main transmission mount similar to a bus to hang the 091 from. Then I'll fab up mounts on the bottom from the motor to the tranny saddle.





September 6th 2006, 04:41
Next, I hacked into the firewall behind the pedals to make room for the tilton floor mount unit. I also need to raise the pedals to clear the body and strengthen the floor so I made a spacer from 1/2" square tubing. Pardon the welding, I never welded before tonight. Somewhere a purist is crying, I can feel it...




I haven't decided if I need to brace the floor pan from underneath or not. I could tack in a couple strips of the 2x1/8" flat stock length wise for support if needed. Anyone else running floor mount pedals?

A couple of other odds and ends, I ground off the studs for the heater controls and finished removing the rest of the forward part of the spare tire well to prepare for the radiator/intercooler mounts and ducting.

Thoughts for another day...
As a result of the new transmission and mounting the shiftrod will now be above the tunnel. It will probably want to occupy the same space as the ebrake handle. No shiftrod in the tunnel frees up the tunnel for coolant lines.

September 14th 2006, 02:51
All my parts are in so now the only thing standing between me and a finished beetle is... me. Our connection here on the mountain is doing a little better so I try to upload some pictures tomorrow. Made some progress since the last update but not as much as I would have hoped.

I started fabbing the new hanging tranny mount welding it into place in the car. When I welded the tabs in place the left one was 1/4" too high and then I final welded it before double checking. So I had to cut the welds and grind everything smooth and try it again with 4 part harmony. 2nd time around I used a laser level to line everything up to car center, measured about 10 times, then final welded. Now that its fixed I've started on the rest of the mounts, and I'm almost done with the nose cone mount. I had bounced a few ideas off a friend who specializes in fabrication for a living and he suggested a couple of changes to my hanging mount design. I took some of those suggestions to heart and redesigned it with a few ideas I picked off of drag cars.

Started some sheet metal work for the area behind the pedals and fabbed up a radiator frame/housing. Played with the housing a bit in the front of the bug, there's only a little bit of clearance on each side. Also looked at where air is going to go once it's past the radiator and while I think there's plenty of room for the air to sort itself out, it's not smooth flow. Anyone else with a radiator in front have any air flow problems?

September 25th 2006, 03:34
Things haven't been going as fast as I'd like this past week or so but for good reasons. I got a new job building and configuring server/network equipment. I've been working long days so by the time I get home it already dark and I'm arleady tired from moving heavy equipment all day. On the plus side, It gives me extra money to spend on the bug and a sense of urgency on the weekends, so it's not all bad.

On to the good stuff... Finished fabrication to the motor/tranny mounts, I really need to work on welding upside down, I just can't seem to get it. Spent all day final mounting the motor and tranny. All in all they were in and out of the car no fewer the 5 times and each time I did it, it got a little bit harder to get them in or out. I can and did jump around on the motor and it ain't goin' nowhere.



Overall i think the combo is 3-4" higher and 2-3" further forward than stock. The subie oil pan is now about an inch lower than the tranny saddle which I'm really happy with but the exhaust sill gives me worries.



September 25th 2006, 03:42
A few more pictures...

It's really starting to get tight behind the motor on the drivers side. I can't get a turbo to fit in the stock location so i'll have to mount it higher but I'm worried what that's going to do to my under hood temps since there's no real air flow there.


Forgot to show pics of the front mount so here they are. Once the cage is in I want to tie in a couple of bars to the front tranny mount to stiffen things up more.


Test fit the new deck lid, re-fit the fenders (which need to be trimmed again), and set the rear apron in place to see how things are coming, looking good so far.



September 25th 2006, 04:20
Coming on nice and quickly :) I presume you cut through the torsion housing to move the trans that far forwards or did it fit over the top? Have you tied the front mount in to the chassis and body so you can still seperate the two?

I'd have thought it would be easier to mod your rear mount than relocate a turbo..


September 25th 2006, 10:55
I didn't have to cut the torsion bar tube and I really didn't want to. Since I raised everything the nose cone sits right over the torsion bar tube. The front mount is tied only to the body so I can still seperate body and pan. As far as the turbo goes, it's much easier to relocate the turbo than to change the stress bearing design. I wanted as much strength in the brace as I could get with as little tubing possible to keep weight down but I was also hoping the turbo would still fit :rolleyes: So the next step is fabbing a new up-pipe where the flange is even with the top of the engine brace.

September 25th 2006, 11:02
My bad for not keeping up. This looks Very interesting.


Coming on nice and quickly :) I presume you cut through the torsion housing to move the trans that far forwards or did it fit over the top? Have you tied the front mount in to the chassis and body so you can still seperate the two?

I'd have thought it would be easier to mod your rear mount than relocate a turbo..


Does that picture answer your question? It looks like he removed some metal. Where the inspection plate cover sits.

I'll post more when I'm not in school. :(

September 25th 2006, 11:46
Humble, I have a question. I saw where the cross brace you made attaches to the body. Is it welded? That is going to be very difficult to remove the transmission, if it is welded. You could weld your brace to a plate, then weld another plate to the body. 1/4" is probably be as thick as I'd go. Then you can bolt the two plates together. Also you can come in and tie your cage to the rear brace you made, to where it's removeable without removing the whole cage.

I was also wondering about your transmission. The trasmision is going to want to twist. Do you think those two bolts on the top will be enough? It's going to want to sheer them off. Maybe a strap over the tranny and tie the bottom into the frame horns?? You'll be grateful in the end if you make as many parts as you can removable with out an arm and a leg.

If you need a visual of these I can take a picture of what I'm talking about. Or kinda draw one with paint.

It's looking good. I see a lot of good ideas being used. :cool: Keep up the good work.

September 26th 2006, 01:26
I actually thought of a lot of your questions when I was planning everything out. I thought I had put in a more detailed pic showing the lower part of the mount but it looks like I spaced it. No worries, here's a few pics that show the bottom of the rear brace. For the most part, if it touches the body it's welded. I wasn't comfortable with a bolt in setup so the nose cone mount and the rear brace are welded to the body. The tranny saddle is still removeable and it bolts to the bottom part of the rear brace to tie them to the frame horns. The tabs that stick out actually bolt to the stock motor mount locations on the ej20 and those will take the torsional forces.




Is this kinda what you had in mind? It does take a little shimmying to get the tranny out but not as much as you'd think. Just pull the hanger bolts, free up the nose cone and see-saw the tranny as you pull it out. Doesn't take any longer than stock.

September 26th 2006, 11:13
I'm sure having the horns tied to the engine will help. Yeah, if compared to stock it takes about the same amount of time. Then I'm sure it's good to go.

Steve C
September 27th 2006, 09:26

Good work. Are you going to modify those headers for more ground clearance? Im going to stick with the stock ones until Im looking for that last bit of HP.


Chris Percival
September 27th 2006, 12:55
I have these seats in my bug. Similar to yours, but narrower..



September 28th 2006, 02:26
I don't want to modify the header before the collector if I can help it. With the tranny and engine raised I don't think I'll have to but I have to drop the car off the jack stands to see how it sits. Maybe something to do before the weekend. :) I didn't want the stock header because it's really restrictive and I'm converting from a twin turbo to a single turbo setup.

Those seats are almost exactly the same size as my new seats. the Corbeau fx1 didn't fit so I swapped them for fx1 pro seats which are very close to the dimentions on your seat. Have you had much track time with your seats? How do they feel in day to day use?

Chris Percival
September 28th 2006, 02:44
Those seats are almost exactly the same size as my new seats. the Corbeau fx1 didn't fit so I swapped them for fx1 pro seats which are very close to the dimentions on your seat. Have you had much track time with your seats? How do they feel in day to day use?

They are excelent. Had probobly an hour or so track time, but many hours on the road. They are a perfect fit for me, hugging my arse well. Considering they are lightweight seats, with not much padding compared to normal seats, they are very comfortable. I can sit in them for hours without getting a numb bum. They are also very rigid.

Steve C
September 28th 2006, 04:35

If you can use the headers you have, it will get rid of the WRX rumble for sure, everything looks different when the car is jacked up.

One of the quickest WRX tuners down here only uses the stock single turbo header after he does a port job on them.

I temporarily put some Recaros in my daily driver when I went up the coast to VW show a few weeks ago, its amazing how much better a car is to drive when your not slipping around on the seats.


September 29th 2006, 02:03
Its good to hear the seats aren't too rough for the street. I want to drive the bug to work a few times to hit a dyno on my lunches. I'd also like to make a couple longer drives to hit a few bug shows here in Cali :) With your seats did you get the lumbar pillow or did you go without it?

I really hope this header gets rid of the subaru "blat blat blat blat" exhaust note, I really don't like it. I have heard a couple of EJ25s with 4-1 exhausts and they have that big vw flat 4 sound to them. I know what you mean about the stock seats, I raced for a couple seasons of hillclimb and autox on stock seats. I usually took a passenger if I could to help keep me in place :laugh:

Chris Percival
September 29th 2006, 02:37
With your seats did you get the lumbar pillow or did you go without it?

No, no lumbar pillow. The seats are quite deep though so support my legs well. I bought mine second hand, already attached to modified beetle seat bases. They are pretty much at the right angle, but you would need to get that angle right yourself also.

October 2nd 2006, 01:13
Update... kinda

Got a little work done on the beetle with an emphasis on little. I got the car off the jack stands and I can already tell there's more weight in the back end. With the jack stands under the rear jack point (right behing the door sill) I was able to pick up the front of the beetle and it weighed a little bit more than a bus tranny. With the car on the ground I jumped around on the engine brace to settle the suspension and there is now about 5" of clearance on the oil pan and 3.5" on the exhaust. There's also no preload in the torsion bars and only about 2.5" of compression in the suspension left. So next time it's in the air I'll add a spline each side and that should help out the backend.

With the impending bay area rainy season looming, I decided to get the windows in the car before pools start forming in the pans. Got the glass front windshield in fine and the plexi rear quarter windows in with their seals but for the life of me I could not get the rear plexi window to fit with seals. I tried with 3 people pressing on all the corners and trying to get it to bend right but it popped out or the seal wouldn't catch the interior lip. I ended up riveting the rear window in and I'll lay down a bead of caulk to seal it up.

Cleaned out the interior and took care of some surface rust in a couple spots. Mounted the seat brakets and one of the new fx1 pro seats on the passenger side to check for fitment. The fx1 pro fits a lot better in the car but I'm gonna need to trim up my waistline to fit in a bit easier :) Replaced both outside door handles since I managed to break them both a few winters ago.

Not as much real work as I wanted but at least its water proof-ish. I'll get pictures of the car on the ground tomorrow when there's better light.

October 8th 2006, 22:11
Not much done on the beetle this weekend. It seems that compared to the engine and tranny it's all little stuff now and it doesn't seem like i'm making progress.

I got the pedals in and some sheet metal backing bent up behind it. Started plumbing the brake system and finished up the front. Got the slave cylinder in place along with a few other small things.

Wasted a lot of time trying to get the decklid hinge pins out and they won't budge. Shot them with pb blaster and still nothing. Is there a trick to driving out the pins? I wanted to get my quick release pins in because it'll save me time when I'm fitting everything.

super vw
October 8th 2006, 23:09
Try using an Air hammer on those hinge pins (carefully, keep pressure on at all times under the trigger)

Not to be an A hole, but some of those trans mount welds look poor. what kind of welder, materials thinkness and set up are you running?

October 23rd 2006, 03:31
long overdue update....
Our connection on the hill is finally starting to cooperate, appearantly there was a lot of radio interference where we get our signal from and everything went dead. We're back up and working again so the updates can continue...

super vw,

no offence taken, I'll take advice from anyone that knows more than me on anything. I did all the welding and I started about a month to 6 weeks ago. We also had friend over who taught welding, and he pointed out that the settings we were using were "not optimal" to put it lightly. I also learned how to weld from a book, no one really taught me until this weekend. The welds look pretty bad for the most part but according the the master welder they'll hold for what I'm going to put them through. All of the metals used for mounts are at least 1/8" thick, in some places doubled up for 1/4". As far as the welder it a little 110v miller.

As far as the car goes I got the radiator mounts finished after scrapping what I previously made and re-designing (which seemed to be a theme this weekend). Made a mount for the remote resivoirs and bolted/plumbed them in. Fabbed up a raised shifter base and shiftrod locator but I'll probably srap that as well because it looks hideous :P I realized after finishing about 90% of it that I can get a shifter for a sandrail that will look and probably work better. Started wiring, got the main harness in front to rear and got about halfway done in the front. If anyone knows where I can find the pig tails that plug into the ignition switch and the wiper assy. please let me know. I've asked a few people locally and they seem to be junkyard parts.

Picked up a once in a lifetime deal on eaby this week. Found a local guy selling some 86 944 turbo phone dials with a buy it now of 300. Ironically I had just lost on another auction for some fuch wheel fans and I told my co-worker I could get a set of wheels for less than the wheel fans went for, $480, (highly unlikely). Out of curiosity I did a quick search and found this set of wheels. When I picked up the wheels I found they were 7x16 et 23.3 and 8x16 et 23.3 deep dish phone dials! Score!

Finally, dropped off my front wheel spacers last week to have the inner bore machined out 3/16" to clear the 944 dust caps, and picked them up on friday. Put them on the car to find out that they still didn't clear the dust caps... that's odd. Took some dial calipers to my "machined" spacers and to the rears that hadn't been touched, only to find out there was no difference! Why do people think they can get away with doing this?! So I'll be headed back to that shop on my lunch tomorrow to get my money back.

October 30th 2006, 03:53
Update time again...

Took a break from the beetle on sat. and just had a lazy day. Long days at work and long build days on the weekends is really taking a toll on me. Worked on the beetle a little bit today going from one project to another because any progress gets me that much closer to driving it.

Started with the steering colomn, it never sat right since i pulled it out of the car and I needed to swap out the turn signal switch anyway. It took me a while to get everything back together and working smoothly but the new switch is in.

Finished up the front brake system with new braided stainless lines and installed the brake clips. After turning the wheel through it motions I discovered that the tie rod was crushing the brake line against the strut body at full lock and the tire was rubbing on the inside fender well. I readjusted the steering stops to give about 1" clearance on the body and that was enough to solve the brake line problem as well.

Installed the wiper assembly to check for clearance problems behind the dash and continued with wiring. I put some wiring on hold while I get the megasquirt wiring ready and check to see if the subie sensors can drive dash idiot lights. I'm considering hooking up the oil and alternator warning lights to the subie parts but I need to check for compatability. Also if I can drive said warning lights from the autometer gauges that frees up a couples of wires that go back to the engine.

started connecting the rear brake system and got the long center hard line in place only to realize I forgot to swap out the vw flared end for the 3/8 inverted flare end to connect it to the master cylinder. it was a bit of a pain but I got the new end on with the line in place.

October 30th 2006, 15:45
Took the day off from work today to take care of a few things and hopefully I'll be back home in time to get some good pics. I finally decided to get my custom plates while they're still available and I can't believe they were. 1,000,000 bonus points to anyone that guesses correctly! I think it's very fitting especially on the track :D

In other news I've started a final checklist of things to do before the beetle is done and it's not as big as I thought.

November 15th 2006, 02:01
Not much has been happening these past few weeks for a few reasons, some good some bad. One of the better ones is I finally got a tow rig for the beetle so I won't have to worry about getting home from the track anymore! I picked up a 2002 dodge ram 2500HD quad cab diesel for a steal. It's in great shape only had 60k on the odo and is already wired for towing. Unfortunately having a truck means doing things only trucks can do, so I made a run to the dump with it already. With the upcoming holidays spare time is really coming up short and I don't have as much time for the bug as I'd like.

November 20th 2006, 00:43
Update with pics! though it's not much to look at....

Spent some much needed time on the bug again this weekend to take care of a few things and mark off others as done.

Spent most of the day saturday tearing down the rear suspention to add a slpine to the rear torsion bars. Should help clearance and add a bit of rake to the stance. It's been a while since the last time I did this and I forgot what a PITA is was. I can't wait to get a rear coilover setup.


Speaking of a pain to work on...
While I had the rear end apart I decided to button up the ebrakes since I finally had all the springs I needed. Installed the cables, ebrake handle, shoes, swans, springs, adjusters... and remembered why I hate drum brakes so much.

With the ebrakes done I could now put the rear calipers on and finish plumbing the rear brakes. They look great throught the phone dials.


Another shot of the phone dials during the day before I put the rear brakes together. These are the '86 944 turbo low offset (23.3mm vs 52mm) phone dials and I love the dish on these wheels!


November 20th 2006, 01:08
But wait there's more!

Today I finally changed the timing belt on the EJ20 and for anyone who hasn't seen one of these timing belts they are long! Like 6ft.+ if you roll it all out. New belt went in without any problems thanks to markings on the pulleys, cams and crank. I wish all timing belts were this easy. The reason I decided to change it was because I'd heard to many stories about jdm motors grenading because the timing belts failed due to the motors sitting in warehouses for too long letting the rubber dry rot. I'm sure driving the piss out of them doesn't hurt either.

While I was working on the motor I decided to start installing sensors for the megasquirt and all the gauges.

For the oil temp sender I pulled the subie oil pressure sender right at the front of the block by the EJ20 stamp and the sender threaded nicely right into the hole. The water temp sender for the gauge replaced the old subie part in the water cross-over pipe.


For the oil pressure sender, I removed a plug next to the inspection cover and used one of the adpaters that came with the gauge kit to thread the pressure sender into the hole.


Here's a couple more shots of progress at the front of the bug showing wiring so far, brake resivoirs, and low pressure lines to the MCs.



December 3rd 2006, 23:29
Hope everyone had a good turkey day, we had quite the to do with 25 people people here. I deep fried a 20lb turkey since nobody here had done that before and we cooked a 15lb turkey the slow way as well. Had some fun lowering the turkey into the frier with the engine hoist and overall everything went well.

Today was the first time I could get to the bug since turkey day and I sent the day fabbing up the exhaust. I ordered a combo 180 and 45 degree mandrel bent 304 stainless 2.25pipe to modify the existing header.

I hacked off a straight cut by the flex pipe to make life a little easier then added about a 100 degree bend out of the 180 to put the turbo next to the engine brace. I also welded a tab to the engine brace to support the weight of the turbo.



I'm really running out of room back there! One of my worries is that the slave cylider is too close to the turbo and it'll boil the brake fluid in the slave. I've already got header wrap and a turbo blanket but i think i might need something t\on the slave cylinder as well.



December 3rd 2006, 23:42
Also fabbed up a new down pipe by cutting up a $150 part from ebay. It's a 3" bellmouth downpipe and it had all the bends I needed so under the knife it went. I cut off the bellmouth right where it meets the 3" pipe and cut out a couple of 90ish degree bends and put them all back together again. I did have to cut into the fender well a bit to make room but everything clears. An added bonus is that the borla muffler just slips right over the down pipe so i'll probably cut a small slit in the muffler pipe and clamp it on. That way if it's too noisy for some tracks I can slip on a super trapp.




December 4th 2006, 07:14
nice work there humble:agree:

December 14th 2006, 03:30
looks good so far, once your done you should come up here to sacramento and gimme a hand installing my new engine and tranny....my roommate is useless :( lol.

December 16th 2006, 14:07
Heh, I know how that goes. I'm always up for a night of wrenching with beer and pizza :D

March 20th 2007, 01:53
Wow, where does time go? Things have been crazy around here since x-mas and only this month have started to settle down. I got the first chance since my last post to work on the bug (no I'm not kidding) and was able to get a few things done this weekend.

Moved the bug around the drive way to clear some room by the garage. This is the first time it's been on the ground since I added a spline to the rear end to pick it up a bit and I love the stance now.

Also wrapped the header and bolted it on. While I was at it I put the oil pan back on for the last time.

better shot of the new ground clearance

This weekend I got the clutch pedal plumbed and bled. Also put the last touches on the rear brakes so as soon as my EBC Yellow pads get here I can bleed them. Picked up an aluminum dash panel so I'll try to get my gauges wired up soon.

Speaking of gauges, I have an autometer electric speedo since I no longer have the cable drive front spindles. I just odered a porsche abs wheel speed sensor that looks like it works like a VR (variable reluctor) sensor. Has anybody used an electric speedo before?

April 3rd 2007, 22:39
Spent a few days working on the bug, trying in vain to make a race at the end of April. Got my intercooler radiator mounted and intercooler water lines run through the tunnel (that took a day by itself :P) Finished the exhaust so all it needs is a support at the muffler exit so the whole thing isn't hanging from the turbo. Spent another day cutting the existing metal dash out of the bug, and putting the new aluminum dash panel together. After getting the gauges in place I started the gauge wiring which will have it's own loom to the back of the car. I've always liked the idea of center mounted tach/speedo in the dash. The idea here is to make them easily readable at a glance and high visibility for the roll cage mounted camera. I was hoping to have my brake system bled but the pads that showed up were for the wrong car. I ordered the EBC yellow brake pads for an 89 turbo 944 from thepartsbin.com but non-turbo pads showed up (1/2" difference in width). When looking up the correct part#'s I discovered that I need pads for a porsche 930 turbo (same size all around) whereas the late model 944 turbo had larger front pads. (oops) So I ordered the correct parts in hawk pads this time, and I'm still waiting for an RMA# for $250 in brake pads I can't use. The joys of frankenstein cars....

Now for the pics!

2 pass intercooler radiator from a Ford Lightning in front, Koyo rx7 turbo radiator behind it

same thing from the top, not much room in there...

Finished exhaust from the side, 36" or so turbo back 3" diameter. I'll probably cut some sheet aluminum to make a small heat shield for the fender and protect it from flames/fire of the exhaust.

And finally the new dash panel, all the gauges are electric due to engine location. The gauges are oil press, oil temp, water temp, boost, and fuel level, with speedo and tach in the middle. The speedo is a gamble, I'm going to try and use the signal from a vr sensor on the front hub that used to be for abs. I have to check with autometer to see if this is a viable solution otherwise I need to find a different sensor and mount it elsewhere. The notches cut into the dash panel are for the stock grab handle, I think the passenger will need it.

April 4th 2007, 00:32
Looks great, Do you think you will be able to see the tack? lol

April 5th 2007, 00:17
yeah, I made sure to check each step of the way before making things final. The edge of my hand on the steering wheel blocks part of the 1-2k range but the rest of the tach is very readable. who needs to see 1-2k anyway :laugh:

April 7th 2007, 21:38
Any pictures off your turbo intercooler

April 9th 2007, 16:40
Are you going with the suby swap simply because it's cheaper and easier or what? :confused:

put some vids up once on the track :D

April 16th 2007, 14:04
Sorry for the delay, been really busy this week both at work and at home.

brujo65: The intercooler isn't plumbed yet but I'll see if I can get some pics tonight.

badassbug: I went with the subie swap because it was both cheaper and more reliable. $1000 gets me a stock base motor that makes around 275-300hp. After pricing out type 4 motors with turbo options that could withstand regular track days the choice was easy. Add to that the much larger after market support for the subie vs the type 4 and that was the nail in the coffin.

That being said, the subaru is definitely not the easy route by any stretch of the word. It would have been far easier had I gone with the type 4. I still have my old race motor and a spare type 4 kicking around that I plan to use in another street bug someday.

October 19th 2007, 21:15
Thought I'd check back in (only 6 months later) and let you guys know that this project is alive once more. In late april/early may life got really hectic for me, between long work weeks, being the friend who's a mechanic or the friend with the truck, and a lengthy divorce, I just got burned out. But life has a funny way to make you sort your priorities.

In late June I found out I was going blind, fast. I'd developed multiple retinal tears and detached retinas in both eyes due to extreme myopia. For those in the know I had a -11 correction factor and retinal tears can develope around -6/7. I was already half blind in my right eye when I went in for emergency surgery in July and have been in and out of the eye docs office since. Things are finally looking up and though my vision is a lot worse now that is was, I can still see. So today was (hopefully) my final laser surgery, and I can finally kick start this project again.

Work has technically already resumed since I've been working the wiring harness but I'll save that for the next update. :D

October 19th 2007, 21:31
Geezus-you have had a bad run lately-good luck with your recovery though-hope all goes well for you.Keep us posted on your project-you are doing an exceptional job there.Wishing you all the best.

October 20th 2007, 14:15
I'm really running out of room back there! One of my worries is that the slave cylider is too close to the turbo and it'll boil the brake fluid in the slave. I've already got header wrap and a turbo blanket but i think i might need something t\on the slave cylinder as well.



Good thread.

I know your probably past this point, but I thought I'd mention that Motul has a high temp DOT 4 Brake/Clutch fluid called "Racing Brake Fluid 600". It has a high boiling point of 585º F, 307º C, and mixable with std DOT 3, 4 and DOT 5.1 (not the silicone or mineral based types). You should be able to get it at any motorcycle shop selling brake fluid from the motorcycle parts distributor "Parts Unlimited" - Part # MOT36.

It isnt cheap, I think the last time I bought some for my ZRX1100, it went for about $15-$16 bones for a 500ml bottle. Works great for racing applications though. You've already wrapped your exhaust, and I expect you've already researched the various high-temp fluids out there, but I thought I'd suggest it for you.

Good luck on your recovery.

October 21st 2007, 16:59
Holy smokes!!

Good luck mate


December 1st 2007, 19:17
Any progress mate??

December 2nd 2007, 13:48
Oh man time flies, there has been progress but not as much as I'd like. Most of the stuff happening isn't picture worthy and some is but I haven't taken the pictures yet. A lot of wiring and test ideas that were a $200 gamble, some worked and some didn't. I haven't had a lot of time between turkey day, becoming a new uncle, and planning an early xmas for the newborn/family while everyone is together. Some of it is my fault too I'll admit :rolleyes: I got a new toy and I'll put up a new post elsewhere for it.

On this project though, here's whats been happening:

Got a new intake from an ej25, larger TB and different layout, so i've modified it to make it work.
Wiring is the bane of my existence, everytime I think I've thought of everything a new circuit is needed.
Took some parts to a machinist to modify for megasquirt and edis, also getting the top water manifold modified so i can spin it around backwards.

February 24th 2008, 23:21
anything new?

February 24th 2008, 23:29
are you planning on driving your car on the streets and doing some occasional racing or will it just be a track car?

February 25th 2008, 21:09
I have a few updates, some good some bad. Life has been up and down for me lots of good and lots of bad. I hate to say it (cause everyone else said it first) but I've been spending more time and money on my newly acquired sports bug than I should. While it's a really nice daily, it's pulling resources from the race car. More bad news, my recent divorce filing got snarled when the company handling it folded so I've been trying to kick start that again. Only to find out my ex had to go in for emergency surgery for spleen and kidney failure. Finally have paper work on the way and I found out last week she may have breast cancer (her family has a history). So while I may not love the woman anymore I don't wish that on anyone, and I've been trying to help her pay off bills from before we separated. In retrospect I've had a lot of time to think about this project and my current situation and my plans needed "adaptation" After 2 years of interrupted fabrication, fits and spurts of progress and no real progress I decided to axe the project. I can assure you there are several reasons, all of them good.

The Good part:
There's an old saying that says you can take a horse out of the wild, but you can't take the wild out of the horse. Well racing is kinda like that, especially if you've ever tasted victory. I'm starting a new project, no motor swaps this time, and going with what I know. I started all this to go racing and then kinda lost sight of what was going on (literally and figuratively). So the goal here is to go racing, and the sooner the better. I've already started work with a new chassis and there's a lot of "bolt-on" stuff already being transferred over. I'll continue this tread since this new project was born from the ashes of the old one.

mccarthy: The plan here is to make a race car first, so it will still be street registered but only because a couple of classes I want to participate in require it. It's not the kinda of car you'll want to drive to work, but I'm sure I'll try it at least once.

February 25th 2008, 22:53
sorry to hear it. this build up thread was one of the projects that inspired me to do a subaru swap. what are you going to do with all of your conversion parts?

February 26th 2008, 01:16
The list of parts that won't be recycled is pretty short.

subaru motor
kep flywheel and adapter plate
koyo radiator
radiator lines
link v3 ecu

I think just about everything else will go to the new car. I'll probably end up selling those parts and feed that cash back into the project. So if anyone is interested shoot me a pm. I never thought I'd be anybody's inspiration, especially after this long. I finally realized that I'm a driver not a fabricator, so why am I building when I should be driving? That's the driving force for the new car.

March 1st 2008, 14:17
So here is the new girl, her name is Lucy (the daughter of the devil). I bought her off an old lady and I'm the second owner! I wasn't out to buy another sport bug, in fact I know 2 other people looking for them specifically, it just happened by accident. She's a 73 sport bug, 86k miles, original interior and wheels. At some point she was given a bad rattle can red paint job so a trip to the paint booth is it store for the future. Here's a couple "before" pictures.




March 1st 2008, 14:37
Had Lucy for 2 weeks and already got the porsche stuff on her. One thing I didn't transfer over yet was the front strut bar and camber plates from the old car. I really need to since I can only get down to +1.2 camber on each side. I also have some shorter/stiffer springs coming for the front as well. Here's a couple in progress pics




I don't have any pics of her on the ground yet but I'll grab some today.

I've been reading and memorizing the competition rule book for NASA paying particular attention to the time trial rules. One of the reason I'm switch back to a type 1 is a weight/power limit I found. Originally I was after an hp target of 350hp and 1800lbs wet with driver for weight. That gives me a 5.14lb/1hp weight to power ratio and puts me right out of all competition classes. In reality I'm limited to 8.7lb/1hp for a total of 206hp, but since the car is so light I have a penalty modifier of -1.5 so my actual target number is 10.2lbs/1hp, or 176hp. Now the thing is they go by hp not torque, so I can make a peak of 176hp anywhere. So I've been considering different motor ideas and I'll put a couple up here when they're fleshed out.

March 16th 2008, 22:07
Racing update!

First things first though... I got the new springs in for the front end, settled on QA1 10" 125 lb./in. springs. While I had the front suspension apart I put the strut bar and camber plates in. The minimum settings previously in the old car were -1.5 degrees camber so it should be close to that now. Once everything was back together I did a ghetto alignment by tape measure and got it within 1/8th to 1/16th of an inch of toe out. I also stripped out the front carpet, floor mats, back seat, spare tire, and jack to get ready for race day.



Last sunday I was able to get Lucy out for an autox down in Marina. First impression, it takes a couple runs to warm up the front tires. For the first couple of runs all I did was push the front end around. It didn't help that I was running in the morning so both the tires and the course were cold. Secondly, I really need more HP, the poor stock motor just doesn't cut it but it was still fun none the less. Class wise they stuck me in FSP, I'm not sure how accurate that is but the group is pretty laid back. Afterwards I realized I probably had too much pressure in the front tires and after checking it (28lbs in both front tires) I put them back down to 20lbs. The rear tires I left at 24 lbs. since it seemed to work well there.

As promised heres a couple pics of the car so far.



April 1st 2008, 23:30
Motor Update

Thought I'd spill the beans on the new setup as parts arrive. Got most of the long block so far and the rest is coming. Here's what I decided to start with :)

2165cc turbo
CB super case, 7.0 deck, 10mm head studs
78mm forged race crank
94mm forged pistons w/ total seal 2nd ring
CB 5.7" super race rods, chevy journal
CB 044 cnc mini wedge port heads, ls1 springs, cb forged 1.3:1 rockers
K8 cam, 107 lc, 308 dur, .491" lift with 1.3:1 rockers
28mm light weight lifters
straight cut gears
4 gear dry sump pump
giant oil cooler w/ fan
3gal sump tank
dtm shroud
CB quick tune turbo/efi kit
turbo tbd

Right now I have everything but the cb efi/turbo kit and I'm still deciding on what turbo to use. I'm still working numbers for a big T3 or a T3/T4 hybrid or possibly something else. I want to have it together, tuned, and broken in before memorial day because there are a good number of track days comin :)

June 21st 2008, 16:15
Latest update:

Been awhile since I updated on this build so here's what's going on...

I've been collecting parts for the chassis while I build the motor and now that the motor is more or less finished, work on the chassis is progressing. I've been fitting the RLR roll cage over the past couple of weekends when weather permits and once that is done I'll fit the new motor and tranny. I only needed to add a diagonal bar to the main hoop to bring it up to FIA spec which is a relief since that has been one of my biggest worries. Unfortunately weather and wild fires have been interfering with the build. There was a wild fire 7 miles from our house 2 weeks ago, last weekend it was over 100 degrees outside and now there are tornado warnings, wild fires and severe thunder storm warnings :shocked:

My to-do list:

Roll cage
Mount dry sump tank
Mount water injection system
Mount FI computer
Install 091 race tranny
Replace inner type 1 cv's with type 2 cv's
Install race motor
Install fuel cell
Install dash/gauges
Plumb fuel system
Plumb oil system
Plumb water injection system
Street tune
Dyno tune

June 23rd 2008, 11:16
hiya mate...very intresting thread. on one of the first pictures i noticed the pedal assembly, where is that from ?

June 23rd 2008, 17:08
Like the stance of the car as well! and love the home made camber plates.

Any pics of what she looks like now?

June 23rd 2008, 18:39
The pedal assembly is a Tilton 600 series. I love the floor mount setup but I may end up trading these pedals for a top mount unit. The top mount is a little more space friendly in a bug and the master cylinders are easier to deal with.

I don't have any good overall pics (because the paint is terrible) but I don't want to show it until the aero is on anyway :p Actually I can't wait to paint it but thats last on my list. I did find a great satin black paint to use for the hood and decklid however. I used my phone dials to experiment on and they came out much better than I anticipated.

I was working on the cage more this weekend and got the main hoop, and down bars tacked in. I started working on the head and dash bars but I ran out of daylight. If all goes well I can have the cage ready for final weld next weekend.

June 26th 2008, 14:47
Cool build! Can't wait to see more progress!

July 8th 2008, 19:15
The roll cage is finally in! I had a 5 day weekend over the 4th so I spent just about all of it finishing the cage. I added the diagonal in the main hoop and also beefed up the x-brace to 1.5" instead of the 1" that came with it. I decided to copy the x-brace for the passenger side as well for equal protection.

Me hard at work roasting in the sun

Interior shots



Now that the cage is done, the race motor and tranny can go in. I'm counting the hours now, compared to the cage everything else is cake.

July 8th 2008, 21:30
Nice cage.

July 8th 2008, 23:38
very Nice Work :)
Keep us Posted


July 9th 2008, 15:35

July 14th 2008, 03:56
Weekend update, feels like i'm spinning my wheels...

Spent friday removing the fan shroud and alternator off the old motor to stick the alternator in the race motor. Tore it all down and put the welded fan on it as well as the aluminum back plate. Now that the alternator assembly was together I could properly clearance the DTM shroud... which took the rest of the day. A lot of trimming and fitting and trimming and fitting. Another project for friday was cutting new push rods since the last set was a bit short and I didn't want to pull any rocker block shims.

Saturday I pulled the old motor and tranny. Once those were out I tried fitting the 091 and adapter kit but I needed to clearance the frame horns. I ground down the inside seam so it was flush and seam welded them. I didn't want to cut into the body like I did with the last car and the adapter kit had the wrong kind of nose cone mount for a 73+ pan. While thinking about a front mount design I pulled the old gas tank out and put together the first fuel line for the motor. For peace of mind I set the front race rim (18x8.5 et50) in place to check clearance and it's fine all around.



Sunday after a little checking on the web I found the 10 degree mount for baja bugs. I don't think they are made anymore but I could make one just as easily. A couple peices of scrap angle iron and a cardboard template later I had a nose cone mount. This mount puts the shift shaft through the stock location so I can use the stock shift rod and coupler. The only thing that worries me is the tight fit for the clutch and throttle cables. For fun and to kind of wind down after 3 more days in the sun I fitted up the rear spoiler. It's an APR gt200 knock-off but it should still get the job done. It's 61 inches (155cm) across and reaches about the middle of the rear fenders. To mount it I turned the stanchions around backward and made an extension for the rear wing mounts. Its funny but it almost looks like it was supposed to be that way.



August 3rd 2008, 13:22
love that rims, and that is wide, very nice humble.

September 4th 2008, 19:03
Overdue update

I've got a lot done since my last update but the pics are in my friend's camera :P

At any rate the motor is finally in the car and we've started plumbing and wiring. Got the fuel level sender installed in the fuel tank and the fuel tank in place. Fiddled the the location of the fuel pump a bit but I think I'll leave it next to the fuel cell in the spare tire well to keep the plumbing simple. I ran out of room in the engine bay so I'll have to put the coil on the inside of the car and run a fire wall pass-through. The oil cooler mounting will be creative since the cup brace is in the way. I think I'll hang it from some aluminum flat stock I've got. I've also been fiddling with the oil filter location trying to find a spot for it that does interfere with something else. Looks like it might end up next to the passenger side rear wheel but it maight be a tight fit with race rubber. We just finished painting the cage and it looks a bit better now and started stripping the rattle-can-red paint job to find okay-ish saturn yellow underneath. Also switched tires from my fuchs to a flat blacked set of phone dials I had so I could restore the fuchs. The phone dials look great on the car and will really complete the look once the bug is repainted.

Here's a couple pics I have so far, I'll try to get more later.

Motor in and ready to rock, only a little bit of plumbing needed to make it run.

Painted cage and a dash panel I picked up at the summit store when I cruised through Reno Nevada.

Fuel cell and pump set in place. I still need to final mount them now that I know where they're going.

September 7th 2008, 17:15
I'm so impressed with your car, I've met spider bait at the nag meets a couple of times...

September 7th 2008, 23:14
nice setup humble....what motor is that? turbo sum more!!

September 9th 2008, 00:52
kuleinc: what were you driving at the NAG meet? At the next one you should come up and say hi :)

BulletBug: The motor build is here (http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9478) but basically it's a fuel injected 2165cc, that's been dry sumped and turboed. :D

September 15th 2008, 02:30
I didn't see your car last friday... I drive a primered 73 super beetle, with HID headlights, and my brother in law drives a skittle blue standard 72 beetle. We're having a bit of bad luck with his motor and cams going flat and eating lifters, we're on our second time around on it, and I think its flat again, he basically has the same motor as I do, except with an engle 120 instead of 110, we'll find out for sure tomorrow...

I got to the meet last friday late, I was the guy with one headlight and one taillight out....

September 15th 2008, 13:58
I wasn't able to make it out last friday unfortunately, I was stuck at work until 8 so I just headed home (60 hour week for me). That sucks about the motor though, is he running dual springs or HD singles?

Are you close enough to Santa Clara/Cupertino to hit the BLTN meets on thursdays at Lawrence Expy and Stevens Creek? I'm usually there every week.

September 15th 2008, 15:59
I'm gunna have to make a trek to one of the NAG meets, just need things to settle down around here. I have a 1 week old son now, so I'm busy being dad at the moment!


September 16th 2008, 16:59
Yeah, I just saw that, congrats again! Once he's a little older you should definitely drag him out to nag, there's a bunch of vw rugrats now :)

September 22nd 2008, 00:47
We live in the town just north of the NAG meets, I do work in Fremont though... Maybe one Thursday after work I'll head out there. He's running dual springs, I think we got it sorted out now though, he kept bending pushrods too, had to replace a couple of tubes. Now we're working out on the fuel side of the motor, his electric fuel pump has turned his carbs into fuel injectors lol, its gettin there though, its super smooth sounding...

October 20th 2008, 17:32
Too much time between updates, that's what I'd be thinking if I were following this thread :)

Things are progressing slowly but surely. It's getting closer to starting a little bit at a time. Got the sump tank mounted finally, along with the tank for the water injection system. I mounted the water injection controller on the rollbar on the driver's side to make it a little more accessible. Ran the water and vacuum line for the water injection system as well, they join the bundle that runs to the engine bay. I went with the #2 nozzle at the top of the T where the intake splits, should be good for 250-400hp.

For the sump tank mount I sandwiched adel clamps with 2 strips of 1/8" aluminum flat stock. It came out pretty sturdy and once the tank clamps are tightened there won't be any wiggle room.




And here's a shot where the oil filters ended up. It's an unused mount for a Z-bar setup, so I added another bolt and put the filters behind the tire. There's about an inch or so clearance with the race tires in place.


October 21st 2008, 01:00
Lookin' good, can you lower those tanks down some to lower your CG?


October 21st 2008, 21:08
That's about as low as I can get it and still have room for the battery. There's a couple of hoses and the oil temp sensor that stick out of the bottom of the tank that limit how low it can mount. It's about the same height as my torso so I don't imagine it'll hurt CG too badly. It's also only going to be 1/2 to 2/3rds full so the oil will sit low.

The water tank is a different story. I need it up higher for accessibility reasons (refilling easily and quickly) and it's only a 1 gal tank. If I get a larger tank in the future I may mount it up front instead.

October 22nd 2008, 11:58
Oh yeah, I forgot about the battery, I was thinking you'd moved it up front to play with weight distribution. I doubt it's matter too much anyway, you'll be powersliding through the corners!!!


October 22nd 2008, 13:06
Oh yeah, I forgot about the battery, I was thinking you'd moved it up front to play with weight distribution. I doubt it's matter too much anyway, you'll be powersliding through the corners!!!


Ah but that does matter for power sliding!:) The battery in the standard position is on the axis of the C of G and therefore contributes very little to the polar moment of interia. Stick it out front in the spare wheel well and it adds a significant amount to the Inertia that will actually make the vehicle less responsive.


November 8th 2008, 19:12
Update time!

I really wish I could spend more time working on the race car. Actually, now that i'm (finally) divorced and working a little less that dream may come true just in time for the rainy season. Rain and time seem to be my worst enemies.

Got some time in friday and today (before it rained me out) working on wiring, vacuum lines and the oil cooler. I made a frame for the oil cooler out of 1.5" aluminum angle and bolted it in place of some missing sheet metal. There's a bottom brace bolted to the oil sump to keep it from swinging around. It'll be a pain when it come time to adjust the valves but I didn't have any other mounting options for such a large cooler. I grabbed to race wheels for a test fit to make sure everything cleared and I think the oil filters are closer to the rim the the oil cooler. Both have plenty of clearance but I can't waith to get some slicks on those rims!







November 9th 2008, 05:41
Looks very impressive!

Unusual but nice wheels. What make/width/ET are they? What do they weigh each?

November 10th 2008, 03:08
Wicked, I still haven't made it out to the meets with you guys, right now my car is in fremont at work, the dizzy took a **** on me again, gonna get it warrantied AGAIN, and will shortly be going without one! Can't wait...

November 10th 2008, 14:03
The wheels are BSA 215a 18x8 et 50 in front and 18x10 et 45 in the rear. I don't know the weight off hand butt I'll toss them on the scales when I get home. Not the lightest wheels but it's hard to beat the price, $600! I'm going to paint the centers flat black and possibly paint the machined lip saturn yellow to match the car.

Are you going to be out at the NAG meet this friday? I was going to try and make it this time around if the weather holds up.

November 17th 2008, 03:54

Oil system is done, fuel system is done! Only wiring and some vacuum lines left.

First the oil system:

First thing was the output fitting on the dry sump which was a royal pain to tighten. I'm pretty sure that section of oil line will need a heat wrap on it.

That goes to the filters in the passenger rear fender, and since everything is ready the filters are in place now.

After the filters is the oil cooler in the drivers rear fender and the inline thermo switch right above.

Then line goes back underneath to the top bulkhead fitting leading to the input on the oil tank. The bottom bulkhead fitting is the output from the tank to the oil feed for the pressure side of the dry sump pump. The -12 line that just passes through a hole without a bulkhead fitting is the oil drain for the tank. I couldn't get any fittings to line up correctly using a -12 bulkhead in place (not enough hose for wiggle room).



November 17th 2008, 04:13
On to the fuel system...

Finished up the last line which is the high pressure line to the back and zip tied up both feed and return lines. It's hard to read in the small picture but on the original you can see the sizes on the 930 MC which is 20mm for the front and 29mm for the rear. Perfect for the 4-pot turbo 944 brembos which are shared with the 930.



Got the front plumbing finished and the filter in place, I'll probably secure it with a clamp to keep it from rattling too much. I managed to get the tank straps done as well, quick and easy.



Since daylight was running out I didn't a bit of quick wiring. Bolted the ground lines for the fuel injection and ignition to the block. Also relocated the water injection controller to a more easily reachable location once the seat is in place.



It was really nice to make some tangible progress today. After wearing my hands down to useless lumps putting together a dozens hose ends and not seeing much visible progress was hard. Those hose ends are fairly easy to do but they are a huge time-sink when you have a lot to go through.

Of course the best reward came tonight after the sun went down. Me and me roommates went to see Trans-Siberian Orchestra in San Jose. I'm just floored, best damn show I've seen in a very long time.

November 17th 2008, 07:52
Very nice progress! Love the braided 'everything' lines.

November 17th 2008, 08:34
Amazing job so far!!!

Too bad you left unfinished the suby project it was a nice project also!!!

Keep us posted..

November 17th 2008, 13:33
It was nice talking to you at the meet, my new dizzy is retarding itself. So it may be a while before I can make it out to the BLTN meet... Had to take the minivan to work today haha...

April 13th 2009, 00:49
Just putting this where it belongs, it's good to be back on the GL forums!

Firstly I finally have all of my safety gear, the last piece was the def-n-der head and neck restraint which I really like but its not made for big shoulders (i'm 22" across the shoulders and 46" around the chest). I 'm worried that it's going to dig into my shoulders once I'm belted into the seat.



Now for the good stuff! I got my race tires as well and stuck them on the car yesterday. They are Yokohama A048 R, 235/40 18 front and 285/30 18 rear on 8' and 10" rims respectively. They look perfect on the car and really give the rear that "I'm hiding something big" stance. For grins I tried a rear 285 on the front and it's a perfect fit. I can also turn lock to lock without rubbing. How many bugs do you see that can tuck a 285 without rubbing, on the front?! I can go bigger on the rear if I move the oil filters and I could go as big as a 315 without moving the oil cooler. Even if I put the rear tires on the front, the rear is still wider than the front by a couple of inches. The front wheels are still using a 1" spacer but the rear wheels bolt directly to the hubs.

For reference, that's the old rear tire a 225/50 16 on the right.





April 13th 2009, 00:50
and more...

And the 285 on the front, oh it's mean!




Full lock and I still have an inch or so to play with.

On the wiring front I have 5 more wires to run and then I'm done wiring. I have to replace the starter before I can start it because the kick solenoid isn't working, buit I expect to have it running this weekend.


April 13th 2009, 00:55
Damn, those tires are huge. :eek:

April 13th 2009, 01:07
No pics this time but another update for this weekend. I finally finished up the wiring and went to turn the engine over and the starter didn't engage, it just spun. Checked the part number and it's the wrong part so I'll have to go exchange it this week.

FYI: you need an SR87 '76 and up bus starter if you want to use the stock 091 tranny on a type 1 motor. If you change the bell housing for a 002 unit and shorten the input shaft 1/2" or so you can use a type 1 starter.

Since I couldn't check oil pressure I moved on to the fuel system, setting up the fuel gauge (adjusting the empty point on the sender), and checking for leaks. Boy was there leaks. About a half dozen loose fittings in all the hardest to reach areas took the whole afternoon to fix but it's tight as a drum now. I was setting the fuel pressure regulator and I know the system can hold 70+ PSI without leaks. I set it for 50 PSI for now since it has to be 45 PSI at idle.

I also tested the porsche abs wheel speed sensor with the electric speedo finally and it worked like a champ. I tested the voltage output before but this was the first test with the gauge so I'm very pleased it works.

After the fuel system sprinkler issue I'm going to go through all of the oil fittings before the first oil pressure check to be safe. Then it's time to start the beast and break in the cam!

April 13th 2009, 02:34
There is definitely an awesome 'look' that tyres like those give to a car, I like!

April 17th 2009, 23:18
Those tires are WICKED! Do you have any more info on the speed sensor? I hate my cable and my speedo is on its way out...

April 18th 2009, 08:45
For grins I tried a rear 285 on the front and it's a perfect fit. I can also turn lock to lock without rubbing. How many bugs do you see that can tuck a 285 without rubbing, on the front?!

Man that's impressive! How in the world did you manage doing that? Are those stock fenders? Did you use any spacers? What's the ET on those rims?
I just finished mounting the new suspension for the first time, and I could only use a 185/65/15 tire on the ET55 phone dials. I tried a 195/65 tire and it rubs on the fender. I'm only doing trial fits right now but I'd really like to know more of your setup.

April 19th 2009, 02:59
the front fenders are 4" wider than stock and the rear are 5" wider than stock, that's how the tires fit :D The rims are 8x18 et 50 on the front and 10x18 et 40 for the rear.

The best fit I got under stock fenders was 205/40 17 on 7x17 et 55 turbo twists on my street bug. Fits perfect all the way around with 11mm spacers.

The sensor is for the abs pickup in the front spindle of a 968. I don't know if 944 turbos came with abs or not but there should be a boss for the sensor at a minimum. I'll try and get some pics tomorrow since I have to tighten mine now that I think about.

Oh.. and she runs, sounds mean as hell, and leaks a little oil here and there (gotta track those down tomorrow) video and more details forthcoming!

April 19th 2009, 20:50
Bring on the video! :woohoo:

April 20th 2009, 01:33
First videos!



Cam break in is done just need to get the axles back in, throttle cable in and clutch cable in to drive her. Still chasing leaks :angry: both valve cover gaskets wont stop leaking and a small drip (now) coming from underneath. I'm worried it's the cam plug or rear main. It was gushing oil before after some fuel got in it, so I changed the oil and the leak lessened by a good margin but it still there. Other than the oil leak and systems are doing well. All the gauges work and and wiring is looking nicer.

2 suprizes though: First the turbo doesn't quiet down the motor as much as I thought it would and noise may be an issue as some tracks. Second, I can't hear the CB straight cut cam gears at all, not even a little bit (exhaust is probably too loud.


Here's the wheel speed sensor, from a 928 not 968 (my bad).



And nicer wiring shots and fire extinguisher mount






April 20th 2009, 02:19
sounds real nice :D
and what we didn't get to See the Drive way on Fire lol :lmao:
can't wait to See it all done...


April 20th 2009, 02:51
Great to see it breathing. Thanks for the videos. Can't wait to see some in-car from the track.

April 20th 2009, 19:02
Yeah, I didn't have the camera out for the driveway fire but here's what happened. I slipped another race muffler I had over the turbo to take the edge of during cam break in. It exited even with the driveway and my roommate grabbed a piece of wood to hold the muffler in place. Well the wood went up pretty quick and where the exhaust was hitting the driveway also burned.

The bad news: I'm pretty sure it's the rear main leaking after talking to a few people. So now the motor will have to come out again. :bawling: I'm going to try and work fast to get it back together because that start up video is a pretty big carrot. I figure a week or 2 for tear down and reassembly before it's ready to go back into the car.

The good news: I've been progressively more and more unhappy with the 091 tranny. Working around it, staring at it, and having to modify a bunch of things to get it to work, and I keep hittng myself with the KISS rule, keep it simple stupid. Since the motor has to come out anyway I threw money at the problem (which I should have done at the start) and ordered a real race tranny from Rancho. It's a built to the hilt type 1, albins gears, ebw hubs, steel forks, type 2 flanges, and the list goes on. I'll recoup some money selling the 091 and other unused parts. The tranny should be here about the time the motor is ready to go back in and I already have a full tranny strap kit with urethane mounts from the old setup.

April 27th 2009, 01:57
More progress on the car, 2 steps forward 1 step back. Not only was the rear main leaking but the sump tank emptied itself into the crankcase over the week. It made a real big mess on the driveway as it came pouring out of the bad valve cover gaskets. Ran the motor briefly to empty it, then drained the tank so I could move it. Before I could drop the tank though I had to move the battery. The battery ended up in the forward part of the passenger footwell and I installed the battery cutoff switch while I was at it.



With the battery out of the way I could lower the sump tank about 6" or so. The old bottom mount became the new top mount easy enough but I had to redo the -12 drain line. The old drin line was 4 feet long while the new one is about 4 inches long. It come right out of the tank and right into a bulkhead -12 union with a plug on the backside. It exits in the inside rear corner of the pan down at an angle which should be easy to reach for oil changes. I also lowered the water injection tank for good measure and put it right behind the passenger seat.


After I wrapped up the inside again I replaced the valve cover gaskets and fired her up again to check for leaks. So far the valve covers are dry and so is the interior. If all holds well then she comes back apart for the rear main seal and tranny swap.

April 27th 2009, 03:12
Despite the mishap with the rear main seal (sounds kinda familiar), nice progress on the reinstallation of battery and DS tank.
I think it only got better :)

May 11th 2009, 17:52
More trials and tribulations but going in the right direction again.

Had a 3 day weekend off work so I spent all three days working on the bug. Friday I spent tearing the torsion bars out and installing the new coilover setup. It took a little more work than I anticipated, the lower 1/2" adapter standoffs were a real pain to get into the trailing arm but they're torqued to spec. Right now I still have the trailing arm bushings in place and I'll switch to a uniball setup later. On the upper mounts and cup brace I had to widen the holes out to 1/2" for the new upper bolts. The coilovers are QA1 units with 7" springs but really need 9" or 10" springs, and they are 16 way adjustable in rebound only.


With the suspension done on friday I could get down to the motor and tranny on saturday. I had some help and we were able to get everything out of the car pretty quick.


A closer shot of the new tranny from rancho. Single side cover late IRS case, super diff, albins chomoly gears, electron beam welded gear hubs, pro synchro rings, and steel shift forks. It's got a 2.90, 1.86, 1.28, .90 with a 3.88 R&P good for over 160mph at 8000rpm if I have enough HP to push the car through the air.


Got the tranny in, replaced the rear main seal with a new double rear main setup a lot of racers are switching to. It's two seals as thick as the normal single rear main seal. Buttoned everything back up, got the motor in and fired it up. Once it was hot it had more leaks than before we took it out. I was ready to cry because at that point the sun was setting and we had been working on the car all day. But after closer inspection I noticed it was an oil gally plug (AN allen head plug) that was leaking, and sure enough it was loose. So come sunday motor came out yet again, tightened up the galley plugs front and rear put it all back together and no more leaks, almost. I still have small drips coming from the valve covers but the rest of the block is finally dry.

There's only a couple of things left on the short list before dyno time and it's nothing major. Shift rod bushing, better throttle return springs and trim the fender and rear apron to clear the turbo.






In the course of the weekend I broke my big torque wrench, broke a pressure plate bolt off into the flywheel and had to drill it out, got covered in more gas, oil and moly grease than I could scrub out, and collected more scrapes and scratches than a five year old with a new bike, but I think the end result was worth it.

May 11th 2009, 18:21
It was pleasure and great deal of recognision (sp?) to read your last report.
The stupid leakages from simple things that would have been so easy to adress the time you were in there before up to the cratches and brouses (sp?) ;)
Good work! Just be carefull with that spoiler thing. It looks like it will resonate and come off under real speed...:D

May 11th 2009, 19:42
I love your updates, wicked great progress! I'm not a big fan of fenders that wide, they look a bit goofy to me in the from the front pics, but those wheels an tires are all business.

Also, could you BE stuffing anymore stuff into your engine bay? :D

May 12th 2009, 01:08
I see your QA1's are mounted upside down ... do you have any issues with that ? Are they recommended to be mounted upside down as an option ?

Great updates !


May 12th 2009, 04:38
It took a little more work than I anticipated, the lower 1/2" adapter standoffs were a real pain to get into the trailing arm but they're torqued to spec. Right now I still have the trailing arm bushings in place and I'll switch to a uniball setup later. On the upper mounts and cup brace I had to widen the holes out to 1/2" for the new upper bolts. The coilovers are QA1 units with 7" springs but really need 9" or 10" springs, and they are 16 way adjustable in rebound only.

Looks nice!

The standoffs are racers edge parts right?
How much clearance do you have between the springs and the trailing arms?
The springs are 60mm ID springs?

The 7 inch (177.8mm) spring doesn't give enough travel?

May 12th 2009, 13:14
I think I'll keep a close eye on the wing with a rear facing camera for the first few runs and watch for deflection. If it's too bad I'll pull it off and wrap it in carbon which should stiffen it up. I also want to change the end plates and make them longer vertically which should make the wing more effective at speed.

The lower coilover spacers are the racers edge pieces, expensive but worth it. There's about a 1/4" (8-10mm) of clearance on the trailing arm and I ran It from full droop to full compression and the spring never gets close enough to worry about.

The QA1 can be run inverted without issue according to the tech I spoke to however the adjustment knobs are a bit harder to reach behind the big wheels. I thought they were only rebound adjustable like most other single adjustable shocks but apparently they adjust rebound and compression together. The model # is DR4855B for the promastar single adjustables.

The springs are 2.5" (about 65mm) in diameter, and set for maximum ride height right now, which gives me no room to increase spring pressure at a rear corner if I needed. Right now I've got 2" of droop and 2" of compression which is about perfect, but I'll probably be increasing the spring rates quite a bit. I'll probably switch to a 9" spring for more tuning room and move up to a 450# spring for the rear and a 350# spring for the front for a new race setup.

I found a quick (rough) spring calculation from a rally group to get spring rates. First, find your corner weights, for me it's 435# in front and 610# in rear (just the heavy side right now). Now multiply that by the max g-force the car will see, typically 2.5g's in road racing, so that's 1088# and 1525#. The bug isn't so light at 2.5g's :) Now take that heavy number and divide it by your suspension travel, in my case 4" front and rear so that's now 272#/in. in front and 381#/in. in the rear that are needed to take up that kind of weight in the corners. Not done yet though, that gives you spring rate but you need to find the effective wheel rate to make this work right. For 944's it's 90% in front and 60% in rear. What that means is if you compress the rear trailing arm 1" the spring will only compress .6" so you need a stiffer spring to make up the difference. So you multiply your front spring rate by 1.1 and the rear spring rate by 1.4 which gives you 299#/in. in front and 533#/in. in rear.

All this calculation is based on my last weigh in but none of these values are current. Since I last weighed in I moved the gas tank, gutted the car, moved the battery, and added more weight to the rear with the oil system and turbo kit. I'll re weigh the car once everything is sorted and order new springs then.

May 12th 2009, 14:11
Thanks for the confirmation on the upside down mounting of the QA1 coilover. I have the HAL-DR5855P model and found out that they fit a stock steel trailing arm much better upside down, with no rubbing anywhere of the spring and adjusting mechanism. The adjusting knob is, of course, at the top of the rear shock tower now.


May 18th 2009, 00:13
Still sorting little problems with the car trying to work the bugs out. Took the maiden drive though, nothing special, but kind of frustrating. I hadn't quite set the shifter right and I left the wrench at home, so I couldn't get the car into 1st to climb our 7% grade driveway. I got it into first and up the hill eventually but it took a while.

A new item on the short list, a leaking MC. The plastic fitting on top is cracked and leaking so I need to find a new one. I also need to sort out the turn signals. Left side works fine but the right side makes all four corners blink. I'm on the fence about the pro synchro rings in the tranny. You really have to punch it into gear, even at low speeds, to shift otherwise it grinds. I need to see how they behave at full speed.

Finally got the fuel sender dialed in right, now full is full and empty is not full. While I was working on the tank, I checked the breather and I think I'm going to route it down out of the trunk areato reduce the underhood fumes.

Other than that I'm going to be scheduling dyno time on monday and well see what this baby can really do!

May 18th 2009, 09:13
Other than that I'm going to be scheduling dyno time on monday and well see what this baby can really do!

Cool, you feel the rings have settled already (by) then?

May 18th 2009, 12:36
We're going to break the motor in on the dyno, change the oil, then go for a top tune on boost, then add water injection and timing. Aiming for 350+ but I'll be happy with anything more than 300.

May 20th 2009, 17:29
Dyno day is set for next Wednesday the 27th! My predictions are 350hp and 310 lb/ft torque @ 20+ psi. Well see if any of that pans out or not. I took a little trip around our neighborhood yesterday trying to nail down a streetable tune and the car is beyond loud. My roommate described it as the evil offspring of a harley and a 747. I've already ordered a muffler and piping which should show up late this week or early next week. With luck this will keep me below the 92db track limit if not I got a supertrapp tailpipe insert just in case. The power, oh the power. I got just a taste until the motor cut out at 4k, no real boost even, and I can tell hell is just waiting to break loose.

I was able to fix the leaking brake line as well, it was the low pressure line but now there's air in the system so I'll need to bleed the brakes again. Also re-routed the fuel tank breather which seemed to help the gas fume smell in the cabin.

Now I'm counting the days, hours even...

May 20th 2009, 18:00
350 hp would be extremely well done! fingers crossed.
Could not find what turbo you had bought for it?

May 20th 2009, 19:34
The turbo is a punched out Garret T3/T04S hybrid. It's about the biggest T3 housing you can get .82 a/r and the T04S cold side is .70 a/r good for 60 lbs./min. or about 400hp.

May 20th 2009, 19:49
I think I Speak for everyone, and Say WE NEED VIDEO of the dyno....
good luck :D


May 22nd 2009, 17:00
The turbo is a punched out Garret T3/T04S hybrid. It's about the biggest T3 housing you can get .82 a/r and the T04S cold side is .70 a/r good for 60 lbs./min. or about 400hp.

Wow, a 60 lbs/min turbo is GT35R territory or in that neighbourhood :shocked:
That number is good for way more than 400 hp I thought? and the 0.82 exhaust aint gonna hold it back either right?
How much boost can that turbo keep and not get damaged? If its 30 psi or so, 500 hp would be very possible I would think :rolleyes:
I hope you surprise us all when it dynos lateron :D

May 26th 2009, 01:36
No real updates this weekend, just installed the passenger seat and seat belts, as well as the dash supports. I did get some pics of the new exhaust and camera mount though. I also installed the new race springs 300 lbs front and 550 lbs rear which cause the car to sit higher again. For now she's loaded into the trailer and waiting for her big day on wednesday.






May 26th 2009, 01:54
Good luck!!! I hope things go well.


May 26th 2009, 02:34
Hope all goes well.

Use that camera mount. :D

May 26th 2009, 04:26
BTW, I see now I have the same make silencer and BOV as you do :)

May 26th 2009, 04:27
Veeeery race...good luck!!

May 27th 2009, 08:56
Haven't checked in on this thread since we revived the site. You've made some good progress. Best of luck and keep up the quality work.

May 28th 2009, 02:21
I know you all want to hear that the car is making crazy horsepower and pulls like a freight train but I'm afraid today wasn't my day. Got her down to the dyno and started tuning just fine until about 1.5 hours into the session. The ecu reset dumping most of our progress, losing the whole timing map and set us back at square one. The whole time we were running into wall after wall with the software (only coarse fuel adjustment, can't save the timing map that resets when you turn the car off, recalibrating tps and timing after every map save and load) so we called it after 2 hours and pushed the car back into the trailer. I'm going to make a few calls tomorrow and see what options I have but the ecu software and/or firmware has to change, or it will be replaced with the MS2 sitting next to me.

The take-aways from this excersize:
-tow rig and new trailer brake controller are awesome
-everything mechanical on the car was perfect and the oily header wrap finally stopped smoking
-once we (briefly) had a working map the motor sounded beautiful and revved very quickly
-very low vacuum (2-6 in/hg) at idle (1k-1.1k rpm) not sure if it's the cam or if there's a leak
-must add better tie down points to the bug

May 29th 2009, 00:58
After working with the MSII system and seen the problems someone else had with a CB system (could have been that mechanic) I would have to say. why isn't the MSII ECU already installed :D. It is a great ECU. It can control your boost, oil cooler fan, alki injection, ingition map, knock sense, it will data log and still have a couple of open ins and outs you could use for other stuff.

May 29th 2009, 13:35
I'm working on a MS2 system myself, just need some injectors and to have some stuff ported and wire everything up and install it all LOL Pretty excited about it. Everyone is telling me its a crap system but I know better.

May 29th 2009, 16:59
Well, you have to see it this way: good thing you found out now and not doing 130 mph :eek:
Good to hear it runs leak-free. Not many do, so, well done!

May 29th 2009, 17:06
AFter talking to Pat Downs yesterday it looks like I have an early version of the firmware and software (so much for early adoption). I'm going to update the ecu and play with it a bit but if I'm not happy I'm going to cut the connector and wire in the ms2. The main reason I haven't yet is I didn't know it worked with hei ignition, which will wire in directly with the CB kit. I'm modifying the ms2 for hei right now just in case.

May 29th 2009, 17:15
Awesome plan.

May 31st 2009, 20:49
Well I did a little searching today and I was able to find the actual Ampseal automotive 35-pin connectors from mouser electronics. This will make the swap much much easier than originally planned and reversible. I ordered a couple sets of connectors and I'll wire one up to the relay board so I only have to plug it in to the existing harness. I updated the code in the ms2 to 2.89 and started setting up tables for the turbo motor. So now the ms2 is all set and relay board modded for the HEI ignition, all I have to do is plug them in.

June 1st 2009, 04:49
Sounds like your making good progress in general, really only small hiccups, it's not like it caught fire or anything!!!

Keep up the good work.


June 15th 2009, 11:50
Good news everyone!

Got the megasquirt 2 ecu swapped in this weekend and she fired right up. Night and day difference. I soldered up the 35 pin AMPseal connector and wired everything to the relay board as a direct plug in swap during a few late nights last week. Yesterday, I took the MS2 and relay board, plugged them in, and I was driving in about 30 minutes. I did have a friend come and rescue me with a jump (too much cranking killed the battery) but other than that she's running pretty well. Still down on power but that's only because she making 5psi (wastegate is turned way down). The ECU is set to max out at 20psi and I can probably go to 25+ psi. I took Lucy on her maiden voyage last night up the mountain to get back home.

-She really wants to go fast, faster, faster still, that's all you got?!...
-BOV is really quiet at low boost
-Tranny is really loud under decel, I'm going to check the fluid level to make sure it's not low
-She corners on rails, pick a line and she'll do it no matter how bad it is
-I'm going to need ear plugs for extended trips, my ears were ringing for an hour after I got home.
-I really need to calibrate the speedo, I'm pretty sure I wasn't doing 160 on the way home last night...

Logs, pictures, videos and the like will be posted as soon as they're uploaded

June 15th 2009, 12:40
Thats VERY good news!
Now get the relay to the wastegate working so you can get a decent amount of boost :D

June 15th 2009, 15:16
Glad all went well with the swap. It took me a while to get the fuel map sorted out on ours but it did fire right up with the default settings. A few hours on the dyno with the LM1 took care of that. Still have work to do with the ignition side of things. We are running a very conservative ignition map now. All we need is some time.

June 15th 2009, 17:05
I have had the MS2 up and working on my desk with a stim board for months. That and a lot of educated guess work got me off to a head start when I dropped it into the car. Ignition wise I stuck with the HEI unit that the CB fuel injection came with and I modified the relay board to make it work. Using the additional outputs I reconfigured Fidle to be off during cranking and on when the motor is spinning above 400rpm, which feeds a 5v signal to the HEI module to allow timing control. A pretty slick and easy setup if I do say so myself. No fuss with timing wheels either.

I've already gone through my timing map to pull timing based on map (1-1.5 degrees pulled for every 1psi) which is conservative for now and I'll add the timing back in once the water injection is enabled (it's unplugged right now for base tuning). For now I may just run a manual boost controller to turn up the wick and keep an eye on the logs for boost spikes.

With a few extended low boost runs on the freeway at 3.5-4k head temps stayed at 300-325* and my oil temp never climbed above 100* (even after a 2000 ft. climb). The oil cooler fan kicked on so I know the oil coming out of the motor is over 190, and the tank is hot to the touch but won't burn you. So the dry sump system is doing great so far and that's a big weight off my mind.

June 16th 2009, 01:42
Once you get it sorted out, you can use the MS2 to control boost too. You can also use a pair of electic S/O valves and a switch, split the boost sense line to both the MS2 ECU and the manual boost controler, set one for 5 lbs and and the other for 15 lbs (ie. STUN and KILL settings). :D

June 16th 2009, 12:41
[QUOTE= set one for 5 lbs and and the other for 15 lbs (ie. STUN and KILL settings). :D[/QUOTE]

hehehe I like your thinking :D:lmao:

June 16th 2009, 14:58
I have a handful of pwm valves from a twin turbo subaru that I could use to control boost, but since she is a race car first it's 20-25psi all the time :D I've been going through the extra code for the MS2 and some of that is tempting as well. I've also thought about adding 2 more inputs to the MS2 for logging purposes, fuel pressure and MPH (i already have an elec. speedo). I got the new helper springs on her last night so she looks less like a rally car and more like a road racer.

I also discovered last night that the breather line for the 3/4 valve cover came off and everything on that side is lightly lubricated. It was a pain getting the hose back on with the oil cooler in place but it should stay put now.

June 18th 2009, 19:28
So the shakedowns continue...

I've been driving her to work for the last couple of days and had an adventure because of it. Ran out of gas twice, first time the tank was empty and I didn't believe the gauge (it sure showed me) and the second time the high pressure fuel line popped off the fuel pump (mad sure that won't happen again). Broke down in a really pretty spot though so was was kind of nice.



And here's where I'm shaking her down, my morning commute. 218 corners, 3000 feet of elevation changes, about 17 miles, and it all looks like the pics above. It's like running 2 laps around the nurburgring every morning on your way to work.


Turned up the wastegate spring to give me as much boost as possible but I've only mustered about 10psi max due to tuning. I keep running into lean spots above 5k and hearing detonation so I've fattened up the afr target map a bunch. I'm getting terrible fuel milage however, somewhere in the are of 10mpg or less when I'm not pouring gas on the ground. Here's a log from a freeway entrance ramp, 0-70mph at not quite WOT.


June 19th 2009, 02:30
I agree: great scenery!

The car looks very intimidating even standing still :cool:

Log is a bit worrying though:
1) you really need some sort of intercooling. If you need to pull timing to 17 degrees advance at only 10 psi, your leaving a lot of hp on the table. Also try to pull more advanve at peak torque and let advance come back slowly as rpm climbs. Knock is MUCH, much more present at peak torque than at peak power at higher rpms. Tuning is everything :-))
2) fattening up the mixture usually wastes more fuel and does not help that much for knock control; Iignition retard at the right rpms (see above) should be the appropiate action imho.
3) Your pulse withs (PW right?) are way too long for a turbo engine! You need larger injectors!
That might also explain the lean running (!) : Your running 15.5 ms at about 5000 rpm and 10 psi right?
16ms at 6000 rpm is 80% duty cycle (20ms is 100% DC). So, your 5Kprm and 15ms is already at about max duty cycle!!!
I assume your MAP fuel compensation is already accounted for in that 15 ms PW? If not and the log shows just your settings, then it would be even worse, but I suppose PW shows actual PW, so boost pressure compansation is already in that 15ms.
Anyways, it seems your injector size is too small.

I assume a lot here, so pls fill me in where I went wrong, but I think there lies your lean running, knock and bad milage issues...:rolleyes:

Gotta love a good log :)

June 19th 2009, 11:30
I think your right about the ignition for sure, checking the logs last night I've got 28* advance at 4.5K and 10psi which seems like a bit much to me.

I hope the injectors aren't too small they're 750cc's! It could be the injection method I'm using right now. On that graph at 10psi the injectors are hitting 62% duty cycle at peak of 15.4ms open time, but they are only firing every other ignition event (one bank per rotation). So I can have them fire every ignition event and that should cut the open time in half. The reason I did it that way is the large injectors don't like openning below 2-3ms so I was worried about low rpms.

I think I'll switch the injection timing to once per ignition event and see how it goes and pull some fuel/timing while I'm at it. I've been thinking more and more about reconnecting the water injection too since last night my intake temps hit 92C. Right now I'm getting 7 or so mpg which is terrible since most of my time is off boost.

July 6th 2009, 23:24
Tuning update and more....

The car was running beyond pig rich but after a few tweaks and turning down the req_fuel (from 11ms to 6ms :eek:) its running much better. I aslo increased the number of injections so the overall injector pulse width has been almost quartered. I turned up the waste gate as far as it would go and I'm getting 13-15psi out of the motor now, still looking for more. It's also still only winding up to 5k and I need to figure out why.

Replaced a few items on the car. I replaced the pulleys with a serpentine system, mainly to improve charging and cooling, so now the alternator charges below 2k. I also swapped out the starter for a high torque unit, and the battery for an optima red top. I finally fixed the leaky valve covers as well. It turns out they were bottoming out on the top of the rocker stands before hitting the heads fully. I ground out material in the valve covers until they fit and now they seal like a charm.

I've been trying to get in car footage but it's too violent for the camera and the camera keeps shutting off. I've disabled the drop sensor, and steady shot but it just can't cope. I could have used it today when a totally oblivous woman road raged when I tried to pass her and rammed the race car. I never imagined I'd be trading paint on the mountain but that's what happened. Damage to the race car was minimal (that i've noticed so far) the worst of it being tire scuffs and a 3" crack on the fender. There's some wear on the sidewall of the tire where it contacted her car (05 hyundai tucson) but not much. Her car took much more damage, both doors caved in, and front fender dented. I feel much more confident in the beetle when it comes to car-to-car contact now but I would rather have had it happen at the track, or not at all. We stopped and traded info, and I gave her a stern talking to about the proper use of turn outs.

Hopefully I'll get some pics and video uploaded later this week. I've also got another dyno day scheduled next monday (the 13th) so I should have video and pice for that as well.

July 7th 2009, 03:00
Good to hear you made lots of progress! Be sure to locate the reason for not wanting to run above 5K rpm as I would really like to see good high hp results from your build!

At the hot track I logged duty cycle and were at just above 71%, but on the road (intercooler working well then) in cooler weather and a high of 81% showed (about 15ms at 6100rpm). I have 660cc (60lbs) injectors and they run at 45psi now...

July 7th 2009, 14:46
15ms sounds pretty long but at 6100rpms how much further can you wind up the motor?

Looking at my logs this weekend I did a third gear pull boosting to 14.4psi, 4800rpms, 45psi fuel pressure, 64.6% duty cycle, 8.1ms injector open time, air temp 160F (71C, no intercooling btw), and my afr hovering around 11:1. I'm running RC engineering balanced 750cc (72lb) high impedance injectors and if the duty cycle climbs too high I have room to double-up my total injections still. Right now it fires the banks alternately every spark event so, 1-bank A, 4-bank B, 3-bank A, 2-bank B, but I can bump it up to fire the injectors simultaneously if need be. The only down side then is my idle pw might be too low and the injectors might not open since right now the idle pw is around 2.3ms.

July 7th 2009, 15:48
I really need to understand this ECU jargon, I want to be able to tune mine like you guys tune yours. I feel kind of trapped right now with mine, anytime something changes I have to run to 034 to have them fix it. For example, with the new IC, it runs soooo bad cold, it's stalled a few times. It has always run poorly cold, but it's been a lot worse since the new IC and I have no knowledge of how to adjust it. If I start a new thread do you think between the 2 of you there may be some hope?

Sorry to highjack, it's just the only place this sort of chit chat is going on!


July 7th 2009, 16:44
Sure Jason, but its only usefull to ecu's you can fully adjust. Do you run any kind of mappable ecu?

July 7th 2009, 18:23
Yes, fully mapable. It's an 034 Motorsport IIc:

034 IIc (http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_46&products_id=38)

Great, you make me go to the 034 site and now one of these is heading my way...;)

Catch Can (http://www.034motorsport.com/images/Laszlo/MkIV_Catch_Can.pdf)


July 7th 2009, 19:00
I'm sure between the 2 of us we'll give you more info than you need. If I could convince you to come down on a Thursday to the BLTN meet in Sunnyvale I'd give you a live demonstration too :D


Now that I think about it I might be able to head up your way on a weekend and give you a hand. Do you have a laptop with the tuning software loaded?

July 8th 2009, 01:28
I'm sure between the 2 of us we'll give you more info than you need. If I could convince you to come down on a Thursday to the BLTN meet in Sunnyvale I'd give you a live demonstration too :D


Now that I think about it I might be able to head up your way on a weekend and give you a hand. Do you have a laptop with the tuning software loaded?

That would be hella sweeet!!! Yep, I have 2 laptops with the software downloaded. I'm not sure about this weekend yet, but lets keep in the loop.


July 14th 2009, 01:37
Well I'm afraid I have some bad news to report, the motor blew on the dyno today. By the sound of it, it seems valve train related but I won't know for sure until I tear the motor down. There were a few things that didn't seem right either, the motor was only making 120hp/125trq at 13psi which is really really wrong. A 2+ liter engine with that kind of boost should be well in the 200's. I may shelf the turbo bits for now and throw in the N/A spare just to get racing by the end of the season but for now it's back to the drawing board.

I did get some pics and video and I'll toss them up as soon as I get through them. She sounded awesome during the several pulls she made it's a shame the motor let go.

July 14th 2009, 01:40
dam sucks to hear man. i guess i should have asked for a ride at bltn lol.

July 14th 2009, 02:09
Oh man! That is a total bummer! :(
Sorry for your loss... really hope you recover from it and slap a new long block together.
Pls let us know what the cause was, so we all can avoid that one next time.

July 14th 2009, 14:16
Oh NO Will!!!! Oh that just SUCKS. I was hoping to hear glowing stories, not that it blew. You know, water isn't as bad as you might think...(said the snake from the tree)

Thanks so much for coming up, sorry that the logger wasn't working, I'm going to call them today and see if I can get to the bottom of it. I did work on the intake boot, turns out it was being squashed by it's position, so I cut it and am trying a new angle that I hope will work. It's all sort of in a holding pattern till the gt28rs goes in, but some air will probably make it work better. I doubt it will help too much with cold running, I'll just have to keep plugging on that.


July 14th 2009, 16:06
You know, water isn't as bad as you might think...

That's a rather cheap shot...

...and yes it IS bad in a beetle :p.

July 14th 2009, 19:10
Really sorry to hear that humble, I was hoping to make it out to BLTN and see your car...

Where and when do they meet anyways? I work in Fremont, and always see a lot of VW's on random Thursdays on my way home from work LOL

July 14th 2009, 21:47
Oh NO Will!!!! Oh that just SUCKS. I was hoping to hear glowing stories, not that it blew. You know, water isn't as bad as you might think...(said the snake from the tree)

Heh, I was using water (injection) and it helped quite a bit but it wasn't enough.

I got video and pictures up today, and the video will be a good carrot on a stick to get the motor back together. The dyno was at Blacktrax and Jei is the man trying to work his dyno majic but Lucy didn't want to play along.





July 14th 2009, 22:16
Why can't I hear any devastating engine noises?

July 15th 2009, 02:30
Man that just sux. Always hate to hear this kind of stuff.

Keep the chin up.

July 15th 2009, 15:01
Any chance your cam timing is off a tooth? That would kinda explain the 5k rev range, and possibly the kaboom? It just doesn't sound like the timing is right to me, like it's retarded.


July 15th 2009, 15:38
I do agree that it sounds very wrong to begin with. Just doesn't run smooth, but kinda like its on 3 cylinders or something. Timing way off could also sound like that maybe.

Maybe flat cam?

Turbo does spool nicely on a positive note.

July 15th 2009, 16:17
The cam timing was spot on 0* not advanced or retarded. The motor did start winding up up to 7500 on the dyno after some tuning. In the video he was tuning 2000-5500 pulls and loading up different amounts of boost so he wasn't takingit to redline.

He did have the timing advanced quite a bit looking at the maps, up to 50* of advance, which tells me the mechanical timing is off quite a bit. When he was tuning he was pushing for max torque by adjusting the timing but 50*of advance is unreal. But even so, since it's electronic the timing would work out correctly at the crank (or so i'm thinking).

The only things I can think of for possibly causing such extremely low numbers are flat cam or possibly the manifolds. I remembered last night I never swapped the manifolds for the correctly ported ones, so the intake manifolds on the car have stock sized ports where they meet the head. Do you think that flow restriction alone would limit to 120hp?

Looks like I'll be able to get the car home today or tomorrow and tear the motor out on sunday possibly. Hopefully by sunday night, or midway through next week we'll know the failure points.

July 15th 2009, 17:04
I just can't see flat cam or intake size causing a motor to blow, where's mechanical timing might have some parts being where they shouldn't be at the wrong time?


July 16th 2009, 13:24
All the mechanical timing was fine the only thing that could have been off was the distributor body but I can compensate for that with the programmable timing (which is most likely why the advance numbers are so high). The motor didn't really blow so much as it wimpered and said please no more. I really think its just a dropped valve seat and that (fingers crossed) no real damage was done.

If it was a dropped valve seat then I need to rerun the lines for the 1-2 side head temp because I think it may be running hotter than the 3-4 side. So while the 3-4 side was reading 380-390, the 1-2 may have been over 400.

July 16th 2009, 13:33
That might cause a valve seat to move, I hope its nothing major. Why ARE you running a distributor anyways?

July 16th 2009, 16:43
It's much easier to implement programmable timing via HEI since it just drops in via distributor than fabbing up everything necessary for edis. Also, as I understand it HEI is a more reliable setup than edis from what I found on the MS2 forums.

July 16th 2009, 18:38
check out http://www.boostengineering.net/category_s/22.htm its just about bolt on. Just FYI in case you hadn't heard of it. Brian is a super helpful guy, I think his handle is beanbooger on one of the forums...

July 17th 2009, 02:49
check out http://www.boostengineering.net/category_s/22.htm its just about bolt on. Just FYI in case you hadn't heard of it. Brian is a super helpful guy, I think his handle is beanbooger on one of the forums...

Apart from the pulley, you can pick those coils and leads up from the wrecking yard for a tenner or so...

July 17th 2009, 15:33
I know but he mentioned it not being a bolt on affair, and that pulley makes it a bolt on affair... Not sure if many people know about it, just trying to spread the word, I have one, and it was super easy to do.

July 17th 2009, 17:14
I didn't see it on the website but is there a mount for the vr sensor too? Also depending on where it's mounted it may not work with the serpentine belt pulley systems.

July 17th 2009, 18:14
They don't have a VR sensor mount, but if you can build that car you can take a piece of aluminum make a 90 degree bend, drill some holes in it and mount the VR sensor to it and the aluminum to the fuel pump studs... I don't know if your serpentine belt system has something there, if it does, I believe brian was making a prototype bracket that mounts the sensor to the left of the pulley, maybe email him and ask. I would never use a distributor again on my 1303 after having DIS...

July 22nd 2009, 16:36
Any 'damage assesment' yet? I am sure your as curieus to get to the bottom of this as I am/we are.

BTW, I had a very nice experience with the WI today and actually saw my EGT drop about 50 degrees Celcius during boost with WI and a tad lower boost where WI is not activated (factory threshold at 0,8 bar boost). I was running 4500-4700 rpm at the time in 5th gear to be able to witness this (tested it just across the border in germany as those rpms in that gear means about 185-190 km/u constantly...)
So what I am trying to say is: if your having temp problems with boost, be sure to use water/meth injection as it really does help a lot!

July 22nd 2009, 17:23
I haven't had a chance to tear into it yet but I haven't been lax either. I got on the phone with Pat Downs to hear his opinion and he mentioned a couple of concerns. First, compression was to low and he recommended bumping it to 8.5:1. Second, flow restrictions due to manifolds and/or cam going flat. I sent my spare block off to have the decks machined down 2mm making the total +5mm over a stock case. That should raise my compression to 8.6:1 but I'll spec the motor during assembly again to make sure.

About the same time the motor went I had a couple hard drives in my home computer go at the same time (2 of the same drive so I'm guessing manufacturing issue). I had a backup of my OS drive but the other died before I could get the data off and that disk had everything on it. All my financials, photos from vacations, all my build up pics, all my mp3's, and all my racing videos. I sent it off to a data recovery service but it'll be about 1K to get everything back.

So the data recovery is eating some of the cash flow that would otherwise go to the motor. Once it's paid for though the heads are up next to be re-worked, then a new set of ported manifolds. I should have some extra cash in August (I can't believe it's almost August :P ) and that will help things move along a bit faster.

July 26th 2009, 21:40
Finally got the motor out and found a lot of good news and some weirdness. I quickly found the source of the noise which turned out to be from the retainer on the rocker shaft backing out. No harm done *big sigh of relief* but where is my lack of power coming from? I kept digging to find 3 out of 4 pistons sooted up with carbon but #1 was clean as a whistle. the 3-4 head was tight as a drum no leaks, but the 1-2 head wasn't as tight and #2 was leaking slightly. Also found the source of a couple persistent oil leaks, the turbo drain pipe (which was loose) and the 3-4 lower head studs. The case sealed up great and there were no seam related leaks. The galley plug in the back of the block had started seeping so I'll have to find a better way to seal it up. Cylinders looked great, bearings looked great and in some places the dry molydisulfide (MoS2) film coating I applied during assembly was still in place. I did find a slight wear pattern in the intake lobe for 1 and 3 and patterns on the lifters for the same but not high enough to feel with a finger nail scrape.

Some bad news now... I went to pick up the spare block on friday only to find a bunch of issues. The order was to deck it by 2mm each side and I confirmed this but they did more. They removed the case savers and drilled out every stud hole. Then they pressed in some kind of insert threaded for a 10mm stud except for the deep stud in #3 which they drilled out but never replaced. On monday the block goes back for a deep stud insert and hopefully I'll find out what the inserts are made of. If worse comes to worse they will have to fill every hole with weld, re-drill, and install new case savers.

Now on to the good stuff...

Here's one of the leak culprits, the threaded pipe for the turbo drain was loose

This is what all of the plugs looked like

the 3-4 head, exhaust valves got toasty

The other big leak I couldn't fix, the 3-4 lower head studs

I'm not sure if it's normal for untreated cylinders to bronze like this

3-4 pistons, lots of carbon

pulled the 1-2 valve cover to find this


Some weirdness here, I think there may have been some fuel starvation here so I'm going to double check the #1 fuel injector


some scoring on the bottom of all the pistons, not sure if that's normal for big bore/stroke combos

July 26th 2009, 21:45
lifters now, you can see the circle patterns in the intake lifters for 1-3




here's the best shots I could get of the cam wear, this pattern is on both sides of the lobe


crank and cam gears got the same dry film coating and you can see the wear patterns in them









Now that's it's apart, I think lack of compression and fuel in #1 were responsible for my low dyno numbers. Once I get the spare case back I'll build the motor back up but I don't know if the cam is fine or not. Also now would be the time to grab a better cam since the case is split.

July 28th 2009, 20:09
I don't think #1 was running at all!!! That would explain the weird running sound on the video AND the low power!!! So really you're getting pretty good numbers for a 3 cylinder!!!

Have you pulled each injector and watch it squirt? I'll make you a small bet the #1 injector has issues or the wiring to it has issues.


July 29th 2009, 00:10
I had to pull the injectors off to pull the motor but I'll probably put just the fuel system back on and fab up a test rig. the injectors were all brand new, balanced and tested from rc engineering. But since everything on the engine was new something could be in there blocking the flow. I'll double check the wiring but 1-2 fire together and since 2 was working I'm thinking the wiring is fine. I'm also not ruling out a spark issue... actually now that I'm thinking about it we were trying to time the engine on the dyno and a couple timing lights wouldn't work. A third finally did but it was spotty, so timing could definitely be part of it.

In other news I got the spare block back, turns out the didn't clean the case after machining and there was aluminum build up over the case savers. The deep stud hole by #3 was also filled with shavings. I still got to clean the case up more but re-assembly should happen soon.

July 29th 2009, 13:36
I'm hating crappy craftsmanship more and more as time goes on...


July 31st 2009, 13:39
Just back from holiday and am very happy your engine issues are actually quite minor and don't cost much to mend :)
I agree with Jason about the no. 1 cylinder: it may just be a blocked injector due to some crap that was in your fuel system (tank, lines, who knows?)
If the spark was at fault, wouldnt the plug show a totally different color?

August 2nd 2009, 18:31
Damn I feel like and idiot now. No harm done and not much money lost (a wasted trip to the machinist) but I found the source of my problems. Turns out a bad measurement was made and that effected everything. I measured the plate for checking deck height incorrectly, or rather must have read the dial calipers wrong. Probably due to assembling the motor at 2-3am the first time around because I was excited :P

Well I found the mistake today when I double checked the plate thickness. My measurement was off .100" so I had an actual deck height of .171" instead of .071" or a total compression of 6.5:1. So If you're curious as to what kind of power a 2165cc, very low compression motor, running on 3 cylinders makes on 13lbs of boost, it's about 107hp. The low compression explains the hard starting problems and low power so I'm relieved about that. I'm going to tear the short block back down and have both cases machined a total of 4mm (4mm on one block and an additional 2mm on the other). In hindsight, I would have caught this problem early on if I did a compression test, so maybe it's time I got a compression tester.

So going from 6.5:1 to 8.5:1 should be a real kick in the pants with or without boost :) I'll probably be re-re-assembling next weekend and hopefully driving again a week from today.

August 2nd 2009, 18:59
Sweet!!! Good to hear it was just a learning moment and not a start over! Can't wait to hear about the new numbers.


August 2nd 2009, 22:05
Sweet... I'm with Jason,
good to hear it wasn't s HUGE problem and you didn't really hurt anything.


August 3rd 2009, 09:08
Glad to hear it was just that :)

But higher CR also could mean higher IAT's, so I would definately invest in some sort of intercooling while 'your in there' ;)

August 3rd 2009, 17:19
I already have the water injection in place and since I know the problem now I may not even change the nozzle. The #2 nozzle is good for 250-400hp so it should be fine. Case #1 is at the machinist now getting 4mm shaved off the deck and should be back in my hands wednesday or thursday.

August 21st 2009, 14:59
Updates through the weekend!

Haven't had much time in the past couple weeks to work on the car, too many things happening all at once. My sister got breast cancer (thankfully benign and successfully removed), my mom has to go in for heart surgery yet again for her transplant heart (for the medical equivalent of a leak down test), and I've been on edge for over a week with a huge wild fire 3 miles from the house (mostly contained now but still unsettling)

I've been working feverishly on the car since I got home from work yesterday since I now have everything to put it back together. Got the long block assembled last night and hopefully in the car later today. If all goes well I'll be driving her again tonight or tomorrow. Pics coming!

August 22nd 2009, 05:04
Uploading some pics now, engine is inand managed to fire her up in the midnight hour. Sounds like there's a miss and she was blowing smoke but that could have been assembly oil. I'll have a better ida tomorrow.

August 22nd 2009, 07:17
Take it easy, don't rush things too much ;-)

August 22nd 2009, 13:28
Take it easy, don't rush things too much ;-)

It's funny that you say that... Last night after I got the motor in I was turning it over with the starter to build oil pressure and it started leaking oil terribly. discovered that in my rush I forgot to install the oil control valve. That's fixed now but easily over looked!

Some quick pics of the rebuild






Wrong manifolds but mine were port matched just like this. That's where most of the wait came from.


Machined the crank pully while I was at it to get some more clearance



This is the one thing I don't like about the DTM shroud, the way the oil cooler installs. First the oil cooler adapter goes on, then the shroud, pull out the top 2 long bolts out of the adapter, and wriggle on the oil cooler while keeping the seals in place. Then thread in the long bolts in through the cooler and bolt everything together. just a pain.

new wiring location away from the header

Almost there

more pics coming!

August 23rd 2009, 22:23
nice I like the turbo system, how makes it

August 24th 2009, 20:38
It's a CB Performance kit that comes with the turbo header, boost pipes, 48mm throttle bodies, manifolds and pressure hats. Overall it's a pretty good setup but if I did it over I'd go with a different turbo header like the one from DRD that has better wastegate placement.

August 24th 2009, 22:15
Good to see things are going back together.
I hope all is well with your sister and mother.

Steve C
August 28th 2009, 17:30

How well do you find your oil cooler works in the inner fender, I'm thinking of doing the same thing on my daily.


August 31st 2009, 13:39
How well do you find your oil cooler works in the inner fender, I'm thinking of doing the same thing on my daily.

It works very very well in the fender well, far better than over the tranny. But, I have noticed nicks from rocks kicked up by the tire, which would be less of an issue if you're not running R-compound tires ;) The other issue/benefit is to get good air flow to the cooler you'll have to at least hole-saw/swiss-cheese the side of the engine bay but in doing so the fan on the oil cooler draws a lot of hot air out of the engine bay. I've also noticed slightly cooler head temps on that side when the fan is running.

September 3rd 2009, 11:54
Well I have a little more free time on my hands to iron out the bug, I am now among the 10+% of the unemployed in California. Got notice of lay off yesterday when I showed up to work, while my former boss was flying out of country. Onward and upward!

September 3rd 2009, 12:07
Well that last update sux. I wish you the best in the coming weeks. I hope that in the not too distant future, you can say it was the best thing that ever happened to you. Onward and Upward!!!.

September 3rd 2009, 22:25
I feel you humble, i'm with that percentage.

September 3rd 2009, 22:59
Man, very sorry to hear about your employment troubles.

September 11th 2009, 16:26
WTF, I am consistantly surprised when I hear this, but I guess that's what is going on... I'll keep my ears open for job opportunities that can utilize your skill set.


September 11th 2009, 17:06
Damn... put the bug on a low profile and concentrate on the important stuff.
Take care man,

September 11th 2009, 19:06
I dunno, man.. With the way work takes up the time...
THe best/biggest stretches i ever had with my projects were when i was between jobs.
When else are you going to get the chance to really dig in for weeks on end?
It's hard to have the confidence that it's all going to be OK, and still buy the supplies you need to keep moving on the project.
Just got to have the faith!
Know that you'll be back working again, and wishing you had the time to...

September 12th 2009, 05:37
You have a point there as well ;)

September 15th 2009, 20:28
Well the job hunt has been going only a couple nibbles but I did have an interview yesterday. No word back yet but i should hear something by tomorrow.

The car hasn't gone untouched either. With all this extra time, I spent the first couple of days pulling the motor and changing out the leaky oil cooler seals (I knew better than to re-use them). I also took care of a couple leaky push rod tube seals (gotta love the JayCee tubes for making this job easy), and did a post rebuild valve adjustment.

I went on a little test drive into town and back (12 miles or so, windy road and hills) but things weren't quite right. It was stronger than before but still only running on 3 cylinders, but about a mile from home the 4th cylinder started working and wow. I pulled 15-65mph up a 7% in 4sec or so :eek: and it blew me away. That's the kind of power I'm looking for and I only hit 10psi! Now the bad news, I still have an oil leak under boost but I can't tell where it's coming from. However the oil is all over the collector under the crank pulley and the oil burning off the collector smokes really bad. It could start a fire if I'm not careful.

September 16th 2009, 03:30
Cool! You got to spend some time dialing it in...
How lucky are you that you're at this stage of the project?
Hope you don't find a new job TOO soon..
"When can you start"
"Ummm, in a couple of weeks"...

Betcha you need more breather box.
Are you sand-sealed?
Did your rings get a chance to seat yet?

September 16th 2009, 13:21
It doesn't have a breather box per se, but it doesn't really need one either. The dry sump setup helps reduce a lot of the crankcase pressure. The block isn't sand sealed yet but I do have the bolt in seal ready to go. I don't think the rings have really seated either which could be part of the problem too.

September 21st 2009, 19:32
That sucks, I hope you find work soon, I'm very worried about losing my job, thankfully a client just ordered 9 servers...

I should come out to your place sometime, looks like a wicked sick drive... I need to put my oil cooler back in though... Stupid dual valve springs heat the crap out of the oil....

March 20th 2010, 00:42
Not much has happened with the car since I lost my job but I dug her out of hibernation this week. Sand seal pulley was installed last fall on one of the last nice days before the rainy season. Over the winter the oil tank drained into the motor so I pulled the plugs to make turning over the motor easier and finally got the oil back into the tank. I did discover gas in the oil which could have been from the leaky injector o-rings but i didn't think it leaked this badly. Luckily the motor hasn't run with the contaminated oil, so I'll drain it and change the filters. Another problem I discovered was a dead lc-1 wide band controller. It was having problems before after a firmware update so I'll send it in for a replacement.

Now that nicer weather is back I can spend a little more time on her and hopefully she'll be back running again shortly.


March 20th 2010, 07:24
Good to hear! Nice pic too. Thnx.

March 20th 2010, 20:45
that car is so bad ass but she look rough when we gonna see some beauty in this beast!

March 21st 2010, 14:24
Well, since paint doesn't make it go faster, it'll be the last thing on the car. I do want to get it painted this year if possible, I'm tempted to do it myself here at the house.

March 21st 2010, 23:29
whaaatttt??? paint doesnt make it faster? ive been lied to! lol just kidding i see what you mean dont be scared paint it one nice evening outside lol

March 22nd 2010, 08:28
put it in flat black primer and roll it.

March 25th 2010, 19:16
Got her running again with a couple updates. Updated tuner studio and went back to an earlier tune. Also swapped out the dead LC-1 for a new one, and changed the O2 sensor just in case. I installed a new ground on the oil tank so maybe the oil temp gauge would read correctly, and rerouted the 1-2 cylinder head temp wire for the same reason. Once she was running I reset the mechanical timing which solved a lot of the starting problems.

I took her for a short spin down the hill and had a cloud following me back up. The sand seal didn't do anything for the oil leak and it just poured oil as soon as I hit 2-4psi boost. These oil leaks are killing me :P

March 25th 2010, 20:27
Do you have a good size breather system?

March 27th 2010, 01:16
I'm running 1/2" lines on each valve cover and the oil filler neck. There's also a 1" vent/filter on the top of the oil tank as well.

I know the dry sump pump isn't strong enough to pull a vacuum but it seems like there is excessive crank case pressure to me. I thought it might be that the rings haven't seated yet as there is only 2 hours of dyno time on this motor, but it should be dry from the get go.

March 27th 2010, 04:36
I know the dry sump pump isn't strong enough to pull a vacuum but it seems like there is excessive crank case pressure to me. I thought it might be that the rings haven't seated yet as there is only 2 hours of dyno time on this motor, but it should be dry from the get go.

I agree. Still my rings only seemed to have seated this season as I now have 1 full bar more cylinder pressure on cranking. Maybe not the best comparison, but just saying yours rings not really seating yet would be my best bet as well with just 2 hours run time.
And still, just a few psi boost should be possible without leaking on seals that badly..
Keep the spirit! even though this is frustrating as h*ll.

April 23rd 2010, 22:34
Any updates?

April 23rd 2010, 23:36
weather and side jobs have kept me from working on the bug unfortunately, but hopefully that will turn around in the next week or so. I have a little bit of cash and I'd like to get the car back to the dyno.

April 25th 2010, 22:11
This is a seriously cool car!

July 28th 2010, 12:03
I finally had some good luck with Lucy. I swapped out the BMD pulley kit for a different sand seal setup and found that I hadn't machined the back face of the crank pulley enough so it cut the sand seal rendering it useless. No wonder it was pissing oil! New seal, new pulley, and everything seems dry. Underneath the motor, the oil relief plug was leaking under high oil pressure (anything over 30psi really) so I pulled it and changed the compression washer. After warming up the motor I loaded the engine up using the brakes (don't do this kids) to build some boost and managed 12 psi at about 6000 rpm. Shut everything down and checked for leaks, only to find that the crank was dry! The relief plug has a very small drip (one or two a minute) under high rpms but other wise everything else is dry.

During the first warmup I had some crazy lean spikes that would kill the motor after cold start. I've been slowly working on my cold start enrichment to perfect it and getting a little closer every day. I've also been working on the fuel map to work out super lean areas when cracking the throttle. Slowly but surely she's coming along, and another dyno day is in the future.

I have a NASA track day weekend coming up at the end of August at Thunderhill which I would love to take the bug to but I might run out of time.

Video forth coming...

July 31st 2010, 20:39
Here's the video as promised. She's still running a bit rough with a mean lean spike whenever I touch the gas from idle. Seems better above 3000 rpms but still leans out a bit. The throttle response is very slow too and I'm trying to work that out. Going to schedule a dyno day next week and hopefully she'll be ready ready in August!


July 31st 2010, 20:50
sounds really mean man... nice work hope to see it on the track With some video ;)


July 31st 2010, 20:52
You will get it ironed out. Then we need some in-car video.

August 1st 2010, 09:52
Hey, that's great. Always nice to make progress.

August 11th 2010, 12:23
It's about time....

I had an epiphany last week regarding timing on the race car and finally had a chance to check it out last night. Sure enough the timing was way, way out. A quick and easy correction, a little tune up, and I hit the road.


btw, if you can see it, 12 o'clock on the speedo is 80mph and it is calibrated :)

All I can say is holy sh*t! She's fast and only making about 10psi until I hit detonation from having way too much timing. She's also running pig rich but that's a little less of a problem. Seat of the pants dyno says 275-ish and there's still a lot on tap.

August 11th 2010, 20:33
SWEET Driving Man.. that does look Scary fast lol
can't wait to see it on the track :)


August 12th 2010, 03:07
The car looks to handle very well and reving to fast!!!

August 12th 2010, 04:46
Nice video; looks like a lot of fun to drive such a car on that road!

August 12th 2010, 07:48
Nice stretch of road. Thanks for the video.

August 29th 2010, 20:28
Small update...

Getting ready for the dyno day on wed. by swapping out the plugs for colder ones. While I was doing that I pulled an oil hose loose :P I decided to swap the fitting out to help relieve some stress on the line, went from a -8 straight fitting to a -8 45* which is a bit longer but at least angled in the right direction. While I was at it I did a valve adjustment but most of them didn't need any adjustment.

Getting anxious, will definitely get video :D

August 29th 2010, 22:44

September 2nd 2010, 02:29
After a long day the results are in!

Even though the graph says crank hp, there's no correction factor so this is actual wheel horsepower. 240hp/225trq and 21psi @ 7000rpm The turbo comes on a lot like a supercharger very smooth and linear, not at all what I was expecting.

Jei at blacktrax tuned the car in about 2 hours, nearly 2 dozen pulls, head temps never hit 325 and it was over 90 degrees outside. I'd say those are pretty respectable numbers and 240whp is still pretty damn fast in an 1800 lb car.



I was really hoping for 300-350hp and I know it's there for sure but I don't think it'll last 5 minutes on the track without over heating, it sure as hell wouldn't last in the desert. I'll feel out the car and dial in the suspension next, but I'll still dream about adding more power :)

September 2nd 2010, 23:45
nice, curious about that intake pipe though, it doesnt seem to be mounted to anything much, shakes alot in the video roughly 1/2 way thru the pulls

ooh, get some exhaust wrap or something for the piping around it too! - assuming its all steel? (looks like it is)