944 suspension & Engine weight

[randyj]

There are some 944 front control arms and struts forsale over at the ShopTalkForums. The person selling them states that the Kafer Cup racers use most of the 944 suspension and that a mount can be fabbed to use the alloy control arms and the struts. How feasible is this?
I already have 951 front spindles and rear control arms inorder to mount Brembo calipers to my 75 Super Beetle. Is it worth it to try to come up with a way to mount any more than this and would it improve my car's handeling? How much suspension modification is done for Kafer Cup racing and would it make sense for a street car?

Thanks,
Randy

[Superman]

Go to the Club SBO! Members part of the SuperBeetles Only! site and look in the members from France for "Frenchy". He has a late model 1303 and has done this to it.

[Oliver Knuf]

Kafercup racers rode mostly on the 74-on axle parts, because they are reliable and easy to get. The conversion will work, with a good amount of construction and machining. When I remember it correctly, you have to shorten the arms and weld them back together, but I'm not sure. Take a look on Frenchy's SB.

[Oliver Knuf]

Took a look at Frenchy's beetle. He took the complete front axle with (the theoretical) engine mounts and built that under his bug. The beetle cup wouldn't use that, because the change is too deep, too much Porsche, not enough Kafer left, would be the reason. Btw, it looks pretty good done for a SB Cabrio, besides I hate the rabbit engine conversions. Too much weight on the rear, engine revs and torque isn't conform to a boxer engine.


Here's a direct link:

http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/members/2/frenchy6.jpg

[Superman]

Originally posted by Oliver Knuf

I hate the rabbit engine conversions. Too much weight on the rear[/B]

Sorry to disagree Oliver but that is untrue. The Rabbit/Golf motor only weights 16 pounds more than the aircooled Type I. It is the Type IV motor that puts weight in the rear. I love my conversion! (pic below)


Type I aircooled - 215 lbs
Golf/Rabbit watercooled - 231 lbs
Type IV aircooled - 265 lbs (311 lbs for the 2.0)


http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/superman/MYSUPER6.JPG

[bren]

Originally posted by Superman



Sorry to disagree Oliver but that is untrue. The Rabbit/Golf motor only weights 16 pounds more than the aircooled Type I. It is the Type IV motor that puts weight in the rear. I love my conversion! (pic below)


Type I aircooled - 215 lbs
Golf/Rabbit watercooled - 231 lbs

add the weight of the water/coolant, the radiator up front, hoses, extra oil, extra mounts, it all adds up... not knocking it though, its a reliable 115BHP... cant help but wonder why you didnt fit up a 16V motor if youre going to all that effort though....?

[Superman]

True, the radiator up front does help offset the weight.
Also, I agree that a boxer motor is better for torque.

Well, the main reason I picked the 8V over the 16V was for low end power. I own(ed) both a 8V GTI and 16V GLI; the 16V didn't come to life until after 45000 RPM and the 8V pulled hard to 5000 RPM.

It is commonly known in the watercooled world (stock engines) that the 8V is for low end torque [light to light quickness] and the 16V is for high end horsepower [autobahn top speed]. In short, I want a quick off the line car so I choose the 8V. Lastly, the 16V has a large head with the distributor in the back and the parcel area behind the rear seat would have to be cut into and I didn't want to do that to my car.

Now the motor I would really like is a 1.8 liter 20V Turbo 210hp :D

[randyj]

Thanks to Oliver and Superman for the info, espessially the reference to Frenchy at SBO.

I am still in the planning/parts gathering stage for my Germanlooker so I will have to evaluate how for I want to take it with the 944 suspension conversion. I will be sending email to Frenchy to try to get more information.

Oliver, you stated that Kafer Cup used most of the 74+ SB suspension. Can you tell me what other parts are used?

Thanks,
Randy

[Oliver Knuf]

Stock parts, besides spindles from the 944, or drilled and tapped original spindles. Brake conversions from 944 over Audi to 993 were common. 23mm sway bar and HD bearings are standard, besides a cross bracing in the front compartment, mostly combined with a full roll cage.

[Oliver Knuf]

Superman, are your weights for the Type 4 maybe the weights from a complete engine for a bonestock 411/412/914?

[Superman]

I beleive that yes it is for stock. The resource I have does not state otherwise.

[Bobby74]

Complete Engine Length.......16.5"/419mm
Engine Weight.......................230 Lbs./105kg.
Crank Center to Air Hose......17.5"/445mm
Kit Weight..............................20lbs/9kg.
Shroud Material......................Hand Laid Fiberglass
Finish......................................Black Gel Coat
Castings.................................356 Aluminum
Max Cyl. Shim Size.................250"/6.5 mm Per Side
Air Fans..................................1971-Type I

These specs are off the Oregon Performace Products DTM shroud site...
http://www.spiretech.com/~opshroud/

I believe that is complete Engine Weight (with shroud).
I have one of these kits coming in the mail (hopefully soon!) :hehehe:

[Oliver Knuf]

Thx for the information! Helpful!