Bolt On A-Arm Suspension, v.3

[volkdent]

Here is a new product from one of our fellow VW nuts. He's completed the off-road version, the on road version is still in testing. His off-road one retails for $3200 apparently, just so you have an idea of what this sort of work costs. I hope I didn't let the cat out of the bag for him, but this is a public web page!

http://a-arm.com/_wsn/page3.html

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

I don't think you are responsible for a sackless feline. He's been chatting about it around the different forums and promising the street version for a while (not as long as you :p , but a while).
Looks very promising. Don't know what he put into development? but the fabrication looks top notch!
See if you can get him to post a little and talk about it?


Jeff-

[ellobo]

Wow, I was wondering where all the hits to my prototype page were coming from......I guess I'd better get this thing rolling. :eek:

The street version is a pet project for a slammed manx and if it works well enough. Then I may start producing it. It's totally overdesigned for its purpose and I have some other ideas that will help keep the costs down and the labor to a minimum. Anyway, Thanks for the interest and keep an eye on the website to see my progress. Pete

Here's a couple more shots:

http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/albums/album350/P1010028.sized.jpg

http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/albums/album350/P1010039.sized.jpg

[Panelfantastic]

B-E-A utiful!! Fine craftsmanship.


Jeff-

[chug_A_bug]

WOW that's SUPER NICE I want one I want one :)

Keep up the Good Work

Chris.

[ricola]

Quality job!
Ideally need to convert to rubber/poly bushes and ball joints for a street car though..

Rich

[vujade]

Wow, I was wondering where all the hits to my prototype page were coming from......I guess I'd better get this thing rolling. :eek:

The street version is a pet project for a slammed manx and if it works well enough. Then I may start producing it. It's totally overdesigned for its purpose and I have some other ideas that will help keep the costs down and the labor to a minimum. Anyway, Thanks for the interest and keep an eye on the website to see my progress. Pete

Here's a couple more shots:

http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/albums/album350/P1010028.sized.jpg

http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/albums/album350/P1010039.sized.jpg


Awesome work man!

Just a few questions....

1) On the street version will there be any way to adjust the height of
the car and will the car be at stock height after the conversion or lower?

2) will this widen the track any, or will it narrow the track to allow larger wheels?

thanks
Joe

[ellobo]

The shock tower is adjustable in 1 inch increments and QA-1 also has a shorter adjustable coilover as well.
Shorter a-arms and steering rods can always be made to narrow the front.

http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/albums/album347/shocktower.sized.jpg

[rpdub]

Really nice Ellobo, you can count me in for a street version if they become available, but one question. Will it be applicable to the LP frame head?

[volkdent]

Just found this, and thought it interesting!

http://fastcarsinc.com/ click on MG IFS

Jason

[rpdub]

That MGB unit looks very nicely crafted. Thanks Volkdent. Now if only we could turn them into VW heads...

[DominicG]

very cool ellobo.


those welds are amazing!

[ellobo]

Thanks alot Volkdent....:eek:

Because of the overwhelming interest in the slammed version. I am gearing up and will have a tunable version by years end. This is cool and I really like the enthuasim that is coming....Thanks so much.

Pete

[Loranar]

This looks awesome - any chance you have the dimensions on the coil over/control arms - I am definately interested but was actually planning a air ride set-up for my beetle. Wondering if shockwaves etc would fit in there - looks like it :)

[volkdent]

Here's another option, looks like they are producing it now. I wonder what they are asking for it, I think most people who think these things should be cheap will be surprised!

Eyeball-Engineering (http://www.eyeball-engineering.net/)

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

I wonder what they are asking for it

'Bout tree fiddy! :D :lmao:



Jeff-

[volkdent]

Heee heee!

I talked to Bruce at Eyeball, he says about $3k and should be available late spring '08. I was hopin too fiddy!

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

Thats pretty darn good considering a generic, overseas produced, standard optioned streetrod setup starts at $2500. That Eyeball stuff is talked about like it's top notch, means it prolly is.


*side note*
That is prolly the only episode of South Park that I was ever able to get my wife to sit through... she actually found humour in Chef's dad telling the story of Nessie oweing him money. "Seems like it was bout tree fiddy!" :chef:


Jeff-

[rpdub]

Volkdent,
Did Bruce at Eyeball discuss how much he has tested his setup and how it handles? Also, do you know if it only fits the ball front end, or will it work with the LP also?

Thanks, I'm getting excited.

[ricola]

I like his other products, but I'm really not happy using ball joints as suspension joints, they just weren't designed with that in mind. My last kit car use them on its rear suspension and they didn't last long and started knocking loudly as they wore, the factory soon came out with a redesigned system using proper suspension joints (pillow joints) that was much better.

[Cohibra45]

Like Jason said, I also talked with Bruce. He is redesigning the upper and lower a-arms to allow for more width. He mentioned that there is a possibility of fitting an airbag system for the suspension. I personally like the coil overs.

Bruce's partner that was also very instrumental in the design is an engineer (I believe he said aircraft) and they have thousands of hours of design and a couple years of driving experience with their front end. Bruce also mentioned that his partner worked for an Indy team, so I have great expectations for this design.

There is nothing wrong with the ball joints. Remember, that is what the B/J and L/P spindles have been using forever. If the angles of the seat cups are the same as are on the torsion arms shouldn't be a problem.

Bruce's main idea was to use as many VW parts as possible to keep replacement costs to a minimum. The whole unit bolts up to the frame head. It is a true replacement. Just take off the B/J front end and bolt on this unit. :cheers: :cool: The spindles are VW also. The steering rack is VW. I asked about a steering dampner and he said so far, it has proven not to be needed. The only thing that will have to be sourced is a steering column from a Super Beetle. It also has to be cut and repositioned.

Bruce said that the use of dropped spindles is not needed as the front end is already 4" lower than the standard :shocked: !!! He really has my curiosity up for the possibilities.

I have invited Bruce to join us on this forum and I hope he does. Please give him a call and let him know that I was talking him up here :lmao: !! Hopefully he will come on here and answer all the questions you would have. I also hope if I made any misstatement, he will correct me...

Here is his website: http://www.eyeball-engineering.net/

Take care and God Bless,

Kelly (Cohibra45)

[ricola]

There is nothing wrong with the ball joints. Remember, that is what the B/J and L/P spindles have been using forever. If the angles of the seat cups are the same as are on the torsion arms shouldn't be a problem.

I should have been more explicit, I meant to say steering tie rod ball joints, they were never designed to take suspension loads, just steering loads.

[volkdent]

I should have been more explicit, I meant to say steering tie rod ball joints, they were never designed to take suspension loads, just steering loads.

I agree. I used steering ball joints in the top position on my setup, but they are in the much less loaded position and also are from a '70 Ford Galaxy, quite a beefy car, so I'm not too worried about them in that location. I'm not sure Bruce's design has anywhere near the stiffness of my design, but it's a whole lot simpler and easy to fabricate, which should keep the cost down. I think that if the steering balljoints are an issue with his design it wouldn't be too hard to retrofit something a little better down the road.

Looks like there will be at least a couple of decent A-arm suspensions available for bugs in the new year!!! I'm not sure if I'll ever add mine to the list, but at least its good to know they are available.

Jason

[volkdent]

Volkdent,
Did Bruce at Eyeball discuss how much he has tested his setup and how it handles? Also, do you know if it only fits the ball front end, or will it work with the LP also?

Thanks, I'm getting excited.

I only know of two cars running the design, a topless, roll-caged, drag-type car, and a show car that probably hasn't seen a dirty street yet.

I recall seeing a second set of holes on the front plate that looked to be in the position of the link-pin type front end, but I can't say for sure. It wouldn't be to difficult to make Bruce's or my design work for both, Pete's will have to have have a second version built.

Jason