Bugat5speedUS project "Volki"

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Well finally got things undercontrol, and have started the tremendous job of rebuilding from the ground up my 73 SB.

Finally got the tent and work area set up, body off, and now working the pan. Only issue is that my Front Pan Head has some cancer and from the looks of it will have to be completely replaced. I don't think its worth salvaging any part of the pan head or Napolean thingy, so I will go with new stuff. So time to break out the lincoln and have fun.

Here are some pics of what has been going on.

Body off :)
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Project%205%20Speed/DSC05961.jpg~original

My new home away from home
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Project%205%20Speed/DSC06055.jpg~original

Some pics of the cancer: As you can see the ends where the two bolts go thru is completely eaten away, and some rust holes on the tunnel where the pan head meets the chassis.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Project%205%20Speed/DSC05970.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Project%205%20Speed/DSC05967.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Project%205%20Speed/DSC05966.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Project%205%20Speed/DSC06205.jpg~original

Hole in the tunnel and a piece of patching material from the other end

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Project%205%20Speed/DSC06213.jpg~original

Some pics of my dummy box to get things fitted properly at the business end of the chassis

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Project%205%20Speed/DSC06217.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Project%205%20Speed/DSC06181.jpg~original

As I get working and have time to upload pics I will be sure to post.
I will post specs.. but as you can see 5 speed, 2.7 lt type 4 with DTM, some GWD stuff, some 944 stuff.. and a lot of nothing on the inside..

[dirk.Gysbrechts]

this is looking great!!!!

[Turbo Haraune2]

Oh no.... cant you just get another pan? that thing is beyond economical repair. there has to be rust free pans in US? california maybe?

But if you fix it... Good luck, you wil need it.!

The trans stuff looks good. cant wait to pick up mine..

[Bug@5speed(US)]

I was about to toy with the idea of finding another chassis.. its a viable option that I may consider.. thanks

Also I have the floor pans, so I just need the pan head, which is about 2-250 and the napolean thing abou 50-75.. I have the pans so that is 0.

But its funny that you can find a whole pan for that prices, the only difficulty is that I would need a trailor so that I can pull it with my truck.. But worst case its a learning experience.

So I ask anyone near NJ got an extra pan? SB with IRS
Alex

[Bugat5speed]

Hi Alex,

nice that you started your project now. Wish you good success on it. Think the other guys are right with another floorpan. The one you have is really bad. Cancer is the right word (as you wrote). Try to get hold of another one. The pans will find their new owner I think.

Always nice to see projects with my own parts (-:

Thanks for using them.

Please keep us posted with more pictures. Hope it won´t get too cold there the next weeks.
Couldn´t do it here, as we already have snow and low temps over here.

Good Luck!

Martin

[Wally]

Yeah, that tranny carrier looks much nicer than the one I made myself. probably lighter too ;)

I would not be mistaken about using another pan, as scraping that one clean is usually no small task either. Plus the paperwork of other chassisnumbers and all, only to find out the other pan is not as rust-free as you thought it would be...
Welding in new metal may not be that hard and you know then its all good inside :rolleyes:

Good luck on the project. Its nice to see another super being rescued. They deserve more attention and projects like these!
Also nice to read this one gets a proper aircooled engine LOL (sorry Martin ;-))
The torque of a 2,7 might be close to the 901 limits maybe? Probably depending on use (drag or no dragracing)

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Thanks Wally,

I have been jumping around boards looking for suggestions.. and over at Superbeetlesonly.com some one turned me onto a shop only 30-40 min from where I live.. I will have to visit them, and discuss options with the pan present and take it from there. It may be the more $$ route, but then I avoid messing with VIN # and related items.

The 914 box, should be good for my road racing. I will probably run it detuned for a bit, till I get things sorted out. Regarding the aircooled, it was a close call, as I use to race a subaru turbo, and having driven Martin's car, its a nice setup.. but for now aircooled, I do have a vert, that may get rebuilt, that the 2.7 can go into if I feel inclined, but that is way to far into the future...

Again appreicate the feedback and ideas. It always seem that once you get start down this road, its best to not look back..
A

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Well, the cold weather is making its way to the east coast, but with a little shelter, the work goes on..
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06317.jpg~original

Still haven't given up faith on this chassis, I have gone over "Racelooks" thread over at Shoptalk, from which I got a few good ideas.

As you can see I started to clean up the tunnel bottom, the cancer seems isolated at the location where the pan head and tunnel meet.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06322.jpg~original

And a closer look, other side is similiar but not as bad
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06321.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06324.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06323.jpg~original

Rest of the front third of bottom of tunnel looks to be pretty solid
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06333.jpg~original
As fell as the front half of the pan head..

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Based on this I think I may patch this front area..
Here is a crude attempt in using power point

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/FloorPan1.png~original

First I will replace only the portion in red from the lower half of the pan head, as well as the napolean top portion.

Then with some equal guage/thickness sheet metal, form it to the tunnel an path those area.. that need help..

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Floor2.png~original

Last one for tonight of the carnage
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06331.jpg~original

Its had to tell but if you look into the hole, there is rust where the top half of the pan head and the napolean top meet.. This may be tricky, but we will see..

At this point welcome ideas, suggestion.. or any comments.. I thought about getting a new chassis, but this doesn't seem to be fatal.. Once all buttoned up, I was planning on putting extra plating over this area, and welding it, to ensure its strong..
Take care
Alex

[bow]

well the only problem i see is that why not get a new front panhead because your gonna spend as much in just fixer pieces of metal

[Xellex]

nice to see a fresh project going on, as I always thought I was a few years late with my passion for Germanlookers.
Good luck with your project, I'm certain it will rock hard!

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Bow and X, thanks for the comments.

One of the main reasons that I am troubled by replacing the whole pan head, is messing up the suspension geometery.. due to misalignment..

I don't know of anyone locally that has a rack to do it right, and the cost of a framer to do the work..

Thought?
A

[wrenchnride247]

All REAL paint and body shops have a frame jig.

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Wrench,

True.. Well at least you all gave me another outlet.. Will try some shops around here, main concern is that they don't know VW's

Thanks
A

[wrenchnride247]

They really shouldn't need to know VW's. All there gonna do is level and square it on jig, and take some reference measurements. Then when putting new head on use the reference measurement's...

[bow]

ya there is also an article floating around here somewhere about how to do a rough sel alignment im not tryin to tell you wat todo with your project just trying to help oh and also sears can do alignments

[Steve C]

Hi


Replacing the complete pan head is a factory procedure. I know 2 people who have fitted beam pan heads to super pans. It not easy but if you find a front section with a good pan head on it, it may be the way to go.

Personally I would go with another pan, the chassis number will not be a problem if you have a grinder and welder handy, wink wink.

You may find this article useful. http://www.clubvw.org.au/pioneering.htm

Steve

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Seems like after much deliberation, I will go ahead and order a pan head..

Tried looking around, but I will either patch this one, or just replace it.. and use a shop once I locate a good one to do the repair, due to the needing a frame rack.

Hopefully tonight I will order the parts.. wish me luch, and I will keep everyone posted.

As far as digging into my project hopefully this weekend.. but between Xmas parties, family parties, and everyone in my house getting sick, no time..

Now if these darn storms would avoid the NE this weekend that will be great, but it looks like we will see two.
VR
Alex

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Had a little, over the holiday to tackle a little more of the project. As you will see the rust is along the area where the pan head meets the tunnel. At this point it looks like I will either do as much as i can to cut and weld large patch sections, and not disrupt the geo-location of the suspension points, or do most the work to prep for a new pan head and have a local shop do it. Have had a few leads on some place here in NJ that should be able to tackle this.

Either way, quite the learning experience and it provides me with a some what theraputic way to stress relief from life.

Here are some pics of the damage, and removal of the napolean hat.. still a little ways to go to finish the one side, then we clean and wire wheel everything to see how much rust there is. Then take some measurements and determine what will be needed.

I will order the new napolean hat, and complete pan head once I get this cleaned up to better access the situation.

Happy new year and more to come.
VR
Alex
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06449.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06450.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06451.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06452.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06453.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06453.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06454.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06455.jpg~original

[Wally]

Good thing you cut that section open, as that inner hole under the napoleon hat has weakenend longitudinal stiffness and you want all of that back in a performance car!

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Wally,

Yep, good thing as it was not looking to good. Well my new best friend is my compressor and air chisel along with the cut off wheel and disks..

It would have not been good if I would have found out the hard way.. like if I pressed the brakes and the MC would have fallen off the Nap Hat, or something structurally would have collapsed.

Its the hard way to fixing her up, but enjoyable..

I just have to get this done so I can break out the little lincoln mig welder that I have.. I have had it for about 2 years and has just been collecting dust. But its time will come.

Wally you also bring up a good point about structure, and safety, and not taking short cuts that could bite you later.. Good refresher thought to keep in mind.
VR
ALex

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Hey Gents,

Been a long while. Weather has gotten warmer, so starting to get my motivation back..

Two things have taken its toll on me.. (1) The most important, being my son getting constantly sick.. We have been dealing with pnuemonias, upper resp infections, broncitis, and baby asthma.. It has worn on us, and left me unmotivated.. He is still sick, and looking at taking him to NYC to see other specialists in the area of lungs and allergies.. (2) I can't seem to catch a break with my chasis. I rushed into a buy in PA, because it looked good, but until i removed the undercoat/rubber stuff, I did not realize the extent of the damage that was repaired. I was informed of the repair, but did not realize how bad. So it seems I have two bad chasis. Not sure if I will use this, or kiss my hard earned money good bye.. Kinda getting fustrated with this project, and I have so many goodies.. I just need good chasis, since I want to track it, and safety is paramount..

Here are some pics of my bad luck.. Here in the NE of USA (NJ) its hard to find any thing decent.. and I don't have the time due to son and work to go out west or south, unless I got some trustworthy help.. I am all ears if someone has ideas.. So here is my misfortune.. I put some primer to protect it, but you should be able to see the damage and porocity due poor welding.. (HELP :( )

I would hate to destroy another bug to fix this one, but again I am open minded for the time being.. Any leads, info or thoughts are welcome..

Passenger Side tunnel
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/New%20Chasis/DSC06674.jpg~original

Driver side tunnel
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/New%20Chasis/DSC06676.jpg~original

Pan Head
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/New%20Chasis/DSC06685.jpg~original

One side of Pan
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/New%20Chasis/DSC06678.jpg~original

Inside tunnel: Not sure how that piece of flat stock is being used, but don't like it..

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/New%20Chasis/DSC06679.jpg~original

Misaligned lower pan head to napolean head
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/New%20Chasis/DSC06673.jpg~original

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Well it has been a while since I posted, so figured I would chime and and give a status..

1) First, the chassis above, now has no panhead, after spending many weeks cutting and thinking how to patch this thing up, finally decided to chop it off and see what other mischief the previous owner did. Well to my luck, it was worst than I expected, very poor job on the chassis, and would have potentially been fatal to the car and myself. Very dangerous. Lesson's Learned. I have found a race shop out in PA, that will weld properly a new pan head, so I will save some labor hours and prep my old chassis and see where that takes me. I tried finding a chassis in decent shape locally but it has been tough, and when I do find them they end up being from Ca, but haven't quite figured out how to ship it...

Here are a few pics of the pan head removed, and shots from inside the tunnel from the old chassis.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06872.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06874.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06875.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06876.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06877.jpg~original

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Here as some shots of the orginal chassis with Pan head also removed.

I little surface rust, and some rust where the accelerator cable goes through but overall a "little" better.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06895.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06898.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06901.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06899.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC06900.jpg~original

Life ain't throwing me a bone.. :(
Alex

[Bug@5speed(US)]

This weekend, is I hope a weekend that I can celebrate about.

Finally got a chance to rent a u-haul trailor, and take the chassis down to Metric autohaus.

All I can say is a great set of guys. We talked for a few, and traded a few stories. Also talked about those bugat5speed conversion parts.

Chassis, is in for a new pan head, floors, prime and paint, and maybe a few other little details.. now I have to wrestle with color..keep it charcoal grey, or go 911 GT3 RS orange or green..

As far as Metric Autohaus here is their webiste: http://www.metricautohaus.com/metricautohauscontactus.html

I spoke with both Heath and Rob, both great guys with a lot of years in the game.

They are located not to far from Baltimore, heading toward Annapolis.

I brought back some business cards, that I would be more than happy to mail to someone to distribute at one of the meetings, let me know.

Here are some pics of their shop and a few of the projects they got going on, plus mine on the lift.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Metric%20Autohaus/DSC07117.jpg~original
I thought this was way cool :)

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Metric%20Autohaus/DSC07115.jpg~original
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Metric%20Autohaus/DSC07123.jpg~original
My chassis, in for inspection.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Metric%20Autohaus/DSC07119.jpg~original
Some Porsche love..

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Metric%20Autohaus/DSC07116.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Metric%20Autohaus/DSC07120.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Metric%20Autohaus/DSC07118.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Metric%20Autohaus/DSC07122.jpg~original

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/Metric%20Autohaus/DSC07121.jpg~original

[Clatter]

Y'know, you really can't take a car TOO much farther apart...
Maybe remove the e-brake handle, and you're there LOL!

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Clatter, LOL..

That was a good one.. I thought about it, but figured it would be nice to get blasted with the rest of the chassis..

I got some comments from my wife and co-workers, that were similiar.

I am happy to report, that the chassis was blasted, and parts are on order. I am awaiting pics so that I can post the progress. Until then, just waiting patiently.

Alex

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Well almost a year has passed since I updated this post. A lot has occurred, our family has been blessed with a second son, so a lot of time has been occupied between family and kids.

The chassis spent a lot of time at Metricautohaus, they did a superb job in my opinion. I visited there new shop this past Friday in Maryland, and was very pleased with the overall product. New Panhead, Floor Pans and Seam-welded for increased rigidity. The requirements upfront was that this was not going to be a show car, but I wanted good work done. Did not want to spend the extra man-hours to grind down welds to be a trailor queen. What I got is what I requested. We only had a little issue with the placement of the fuel line, as they took some inititiative, but forgot about my Bugat5speed conversion.. so one more small change needed.

So what started as an impulse buy on ebay, got taken down to the chassis, just short of removing the e-brake handle.. talk about requirements creep.. I had bought this telling my wife, it was a simple bolt-on affair.. :)

So without further delay, I present to everyone the cleaned up and painted chassis, please enjoy..

Chassis, and conversion gearbox test fitting
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05406.jpg~original

My Fairlady "naked in all her glory"
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05408.jpg~original

Back Half
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05409.jpg~original

New Pan-head
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05410.jpg~original

Rear View
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05411.jpg~original

Rear View Bottom
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05413.jpg~original

More to come
Alex

[Bug@5speed(US)]

More pics

Front Pan Bottom
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05414.jpg~original

Close up Front Pan Bottom: You can see some of the patching..
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05415.jpg~original

Bottom Front: You can see some of the seam welding.. When we lifted and dropped the chassis you could really tell how much more rigid this welding makes the frame
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05416.jpg~original

Bottom
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05417.jpg~original

Reinforced Jack Points
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05418.jpg~original

Whole Bottom
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/DSC05420.jpg~original

Front Pan Head
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/photo2.jpg~original

Rear
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/photo3.jpg~original

Seat Rails: I am having them reinforce these, as I had initially planned on not using them.. I failed to realize the little space around the rails to install aftermarket seat rails
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j108/bugat5speed_US/photo1.jpg~original

Ok, that is it for now, I should be picking up the frame in 2-3 weeks, after the fuel line is relocated, the seat rails stitch welded to the pans.. and a few little things..

Very excited, now I am in the processes of determining whether I want to replate/coat the old hardware bolts or go stainless steel..

VR
Alex

[wrenchnride247]

Very nice Alex... at this point look's like SS hardware to me :D

[Jim]

Excellent job Alex! You must be very pleased from the result!

Keep us updated..

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Yes,

Just got the great news that its ready for pick up.. Should be traveling the 3.5 hr trip in about 2 weeks to grab the chassis..

:)
Alex

[Jim Andritsakos]

Any progress here Alex ?

Rgds,
Jim

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Been going slow but looking to pickup in the late spring or summer.
Life took a turn with wife loosing her job, one of my son'ss needed surgery and to add to our situation my mom got I'll and we had to take her in.
As the say if life gives you lemons, it's time to make lemonade.
Things have started to settle, just picked up some 944 NA struts for a coilover conversion as well as some other parts.
Looking fwd to late spring, hopefully everything continues to progress
Thanks for asking
Alex

[Bugged]

Alex,

Hope all is well, making progress with the bug and got the shifter set up... or so I think. It is connected, but hard to tell if I am engaging the correct gears.

[onixbonilla]

Hi Alex! Great to hear you are moving on your project. You have a very good attitude toward the difficulties life presented to you. Keep the good work!:)