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View Full Version : DOHC 4 valve heads - current status


Bugat5speed
June 22nd 2008, 12:15
Hi together,

just finnished the current batch of cylinder heads on my milling centre. Attached one picture of 4 heads. Cutting the fins was time-killing, but after the first head was done the mill did it whilst I could do other jobs. Since the 1st batch in February some changes were made to the mold (inlet channel, position of valve seats, etc.).

Robert Bernauer will get them the next days to accomplish them with valve seats, guidance, valves, etc.

The camboxes are nearly finnished, also the manifolds and other parts.

Hope to give you more info soon.

Martin Bott
Bug @ 5-Speed

Bug@5speed(US)
June 22nd 2008, 22:43
Martin,

Very nice, looks so much better in alum, compared to the prototypes you showed me while we had some beer's last years.

I will show Ana, the progress, but I know she won't truely understand.

VR
ALex

petevw
June 23rd 2008, 10:58
Hi Martin,

Those are awesome! I am really looking forward to this.

What are the details, your vision for the engine?

-displacement
-based on which case
-cylinders
-street/race
-fit in the stock engine bay
-cooling system

Could this be a reality in our street cars?

What is your timeline?

Sorry for all the questions, but if your looking for a test vehicle in North America, let me be the first to volunteer! :D

Pete

Bugat5speed
June 23rd 2008, 15:32
Hi Pete,

some answers to your questions:

own case (molds are just being built, engineered with CAD like the heads also)
Porsche cylinders, custom made pistons
street or race, whatever is wanted
engine is only 1-2 cm wider than an original type 1
something in classic style (f.e. like Jake Raby`s project)
will not be a cheap option, so it depends what you want to spend for your street car
timeline is much depending on budget. The things cost quite a lot. We want to have a prototype running in autumn
what is meant with displacement? Sorry for this stupid question, but my English is not perfect.

Hope to have given some details for you.

Thanks for your interest in the project.

Martin
Bug @ 5-Speed

petevw
June 23rd 2008, 23:25
Martin,

No worries, your English is great. Displacement is the size of the motor. 2L, 2.5L, 3L?

As for cost, what kind of money are you thinking? How expensive? You can message me.

Thanks, and i'm looking forward to the updates.

Pete

Wally
June 24th 2008, 02:44
Great progress Martin!
Its a pity (imo) that you didn't choose the type 1 or 4 engine case as a base to make the heads onto. Any particular reason why you and Robert choose to also have a totally new engine casing type made for these?

Is cylinder spacing larger or similar to type 1 or 4 (or 911 perhaps)?

Thanks,
Walter

Bugat5speed
June 24th 2008, 14:16
Hi PeteVW,

will PM you directly.

Walther,

the reason for the new crank case will explain itsself, when the project has a special status. Canīt say much at the moment. Sorry, but later more (I promise).

Can tell you that they will not cross your project, as they are not for type 4.

Thanks for your interest!

Martin

Wally
June 24th 2008, 15:09
Walter,

Can tell you that they will not cross your project, as they are not for type 4.

Thanks for your interest!

Martin
Oh, but I/we would not be the least bit upset 'bout that ;) I think anyone that produces a working prototyp with OHC has all our blessings und respect always!

Its just that I think you could maybe make less expensive engines and therefore more of them if you would/could use an existing platform. Besides, an existing platform has its own charm, despite maybe its weaknesses, if any ;)

Still, its very cool too see a complete set of OHC heads for an aircooled boxer 4-cyl.!
Please, carry on! :cool:

Bugat5speed
June 25th 2008, 03:47
Hi Walter,

itīs nice that you are not annoyed about another "OHC-producer". But you are right and I share the same opinion, that itīs good that some people do development and engineering on things that are totally different from the things that all do.

You may be right what concerns the price of such an engine, but on the other hand you will get something very special and - thatīs the main reason - the engine will stand power and high revving. The reason for the new case is that we go with 5 crank bearings and that will give the engine a complete new character what concerns durability.
I donīt want to engineer anything based on a platform that (in my opinion) is not the correct one for a modern flat four engine. Type 1 and type 4 are wonderful engines, but 3 bearings are that what limits them for high revvs and high power. I know of too many engines that have to be reconditioned after only one season. I think thatīs mainly caused by the case and the crankshaft. If you obey total costs on a longer period than such a type 4 can become very, very expensive and in the end the option with the new case might be the cheaper one.

Itīs only the phase of development that slows down the project, but it will not have any effect on availability later. Each of my products once started as a single part and was later switched to a serial product.

Howīs your project coming forward?

Martin

Wally
June 25th 2008, 08:28
Cool!
I don't believe the stock case being 3-bearing only is such a weak point for the power output and duration of that output we talk about.
Failures of engines usually is a misconception of the parts used and more even so: incorrect maching and/or assembly of parts, but thats just my take on it, so don't let that put you off of your project ;)

I just took my totally stock 914 2.0 engine in my street 1303 today to 305 Nm and 222 hp with the addition of a single turbo... The type 4's are great little engines :)

The apfelbeck project is not 'mine' though and AFAIK, its not moving at all at the moment ;)

vwghia-guy
September 29th 2011, 15:32
Any updates to this project?

effvee
October 10th 2011, 22:06
Hi, I have just seen this post (late bloomer), why not take the type IV to the next level? And then there the pricing, all the way to the moon, wow. At one time I wanted a large displacement engine, but priing went through the roof 4,000.00 US for a set of heads. It makes for a slow build, I don't know about most members but I am a lowly diesel mechanic. My money does not come that fast. It would have been nice to hear that you sold your parts to thousands on this planet; not hundreds. There will be those that will buy, I'd like to see you be a seccess. High cost of parts and slow buying will effect your investment. Just for an example, look how the type IV market sputters, it should have really taken off by now. However 1000.00 pistons, 2000.00 cranks, 4000.00 heads, 1000.00 connecting rods. I think CB Performance is doing it correctly, not too high in pricing. O well:o . A good type IV case that would ealily reach the 3.5 displacment, and use none grommet type of oil cooler interface; would have been great.

Jadewombat
October 12th 2011, 12:00
What about the type 5 engine (Vanagon oxyboxer)? Not sure how many ribs the case has, but from what I understand they're supposed to be a lot stronger, can be converted to accept type 1 crank and heads, and run air-cooled.

KAFUR1
December 20th 2011, 16:03
progress?