My subaru 1302 build thread

[Eatoniashoprat]

Hi, my car should be coming out of paint today or tomorrow and within the next two months will be going together. I have all the parts to complete the car but I'm getting married and with the honeymoon won't be home to work on it for about 3 weeks in august. Anyway, I'll update with pics here when I can.

Here are some in the paint shop. The really dark color you see is the ~2004 VW color platinum grey with no clear coat yet. Its quite amazing how it turned out since in certain light it looks black, like in the pic, but you move you angle a little bit and it goes to a light grey/silver.

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool10/3F/3C/34/B0/B1/4D/11/DB/B7/44/DC/9A/18/E2/32/D7/oma/10/89C7E30052CB11DD9FDD978F46408891.jpg

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool10/3F/3C/34/B0/B1/4D/11/DB/B7/44/DC/9A/18/E2/32/D7/oma/10/8A7ED6F052CB11DD9C9D7A4E46408891.jpg

[Eatoniashoprat]

Not sure why the two came out small and the one pic is big?

[jmd]

Can we get some specs on the car?
Power Plant
ECU Solution
Pedal Setup

Thanks.

[Eatoniashoprat]

Can we get some specs on the car?
Power Plant
ECU Solution
Pedal Setup

Thanks.


Engine: EJ20 turbo, Early legacy closed deck block, td05h-16g turbo, 550cc injectors that'll be bumped up to about 630-650 with higher fuel pressure

ECU: Using the Subaru harness and have an ECU out of an 96 STi that will run my engine ok. I'll use that to get everything working and then I have an APEXI Power FC with datalogit that plugs right in to my harness. It is a complete standalone fully programmable system. I want to be able to tweak

Pedal setup: ? stock pedals? Cable running to the throttle just like the VW. I imagine I'll have to do some fiddling to get wide open throttle.

Tranny: Built type 1 with ZF LSD. I will drive this car hard but won't be abusing the gearbox. I am confident this box will stand up for many miles.

944 CV joints, currently running on stock beetle axles until I can find a set of the 'short' 944 axles.



I just got the car back home and the paint looks amazing. When I get back home from work (friday) I'll take some pics and post. It saddens me it will sit for the next month but I suppose getting married and honeymoon take priority.

[volkdent]

I think the pictures got small because you've got them at photobucket too large. If you save smaller pictures on photobucket they'll come up just fine on here.

Jason

[shakajava]

Did you do all the prep work and body work before the paint job?
I was wondering of you thought about using MegaSquirt for your engine EFI management. Take a look if you haven't yet.
http://www.megamanual.com/index.html

I haven't used it yet, but want to for my volvo 240 and future subaru project.

[BulletBug]

hi Eatoniashoprat... nice setup there.. does it requires u to cut the fire wall for the engine to mount properly in the car? radiator location??

thanks, ojan..

[C4 Metal Werks]

Any updates? More pictures please!

[effvee]

Did you do all the prep work and body work before the paint job?
I was wondering of you thought about using MegaSquirt for your engine EFI management. Take a look if you haven't yet.
http://www.megamanual.com/index.html

I haven't used it yet, but want to for my volvo 240 and future subaru project.

Hay Guys, I want very much to use the MegaSquirt system. I have a second type IV setup I would like to use the 1.7 intakes injection with. Although my throttle body will be from a 5.0. Saving some money on the EFI system sounds very nice. My heads are going to be totally re-worked hopefully to support a 2.7.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k97/effvee/My%201302%20Affair/DSC00011-1.jpg~original
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k97/effvee/My%201302%20Affair/DSC00021.jpg~original
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k97/effvee/My%201302%20Affair/DSC00020.jpg~original
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k97/effvee/My%201302%20Affair/DSC00025.jpg~original
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k97/effvee/My%201302%20Affair/DSC00019_edited.jpg~original

[Eatoniashoprat]

Sorry guys I've been super busy, I'll post some more pics, when I get home next week. I've got the brakes/susp, wiring and dash mostly done. Engine goes in next, then on to all the other small stuff.

Did you do all the prep work and body work before the paint job?
I was wondering of you thought about using MegaSquirt for your engine EFI management. Take a look if you haven't yet.
http://www.megamanual.com/index.html


I haven't used it yet, but want to for my volvo 240 and future subaru project.

I thought about using megasquirt but there hasn't been much success using it on subaru turbo engines. I have the Apexi Power FC which apparently works very well. I would like to megasquirt something but would rather do it on a low performance daily driver to gain more efi experience then to use it on a hi-po engine.

hi Eatoniashoprat... nice setup there.. does it requires u to cut the fire wall for the engine to mount properly in the car? radiator location??

thanks, ojan..

I cut a bit out of the firewall to fit the turbo. The IC sits directly overtop of the engine. I shortened the decklid mounts so the intercooler would fit. Once its installed, hopefully next weekend, I'll put some pics up. The radiator is up front, there should be pics of the cooling setup when I was mocking it up in the Engines-Subaru- section.

[Eatoniashoprat]

Here is one pic, this is when it first came to my house. More is done since then but I can't access the pics right now for some reason.

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool10/3F/3C/34/B0/B1/4D/11/DB/B7/44/DC/9A/18/E2/32/D7/oma/10/9723D2D0779611DDB4F8966546408891.jpg

[shakajava]

Very nice!!! i can't wait to get some more $$$$ to put into my 71' 1302. Here is my project page. Just getting started. http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9582
My 69' is a daily driver and I will be leaving that mostly stock with a 1500cc SB.

[Eatoniashoprat]

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v320/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37791703_7668.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v320/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37791705_8183.jpg

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v320/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37791706_8447.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v320/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37791707_8720.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v320/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37791708_8997.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v320/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37791709_9281.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v320/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37791713_389.jpg

With these fenders on it makes the 245's on the back look small!
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v320/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37791714_673.jpg

[Eatoniashoprat]

Couple more pics. Work is progressing slowly now that I'm married, weird. :lol:

Axles with Porsche 944 cv's installed, along with kafer brace. Needs bigger tires!!
http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v337/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37831948_6625.jpg

Got the dash figured out, just needs a clean. Not 100% on where the cd player will go. Its secondary, though under the dash in a box or something. I wanted the interior to be simple on this car, and functional. Nothing flashy just black. Have matching rear seat cover and speaker shelf, along with black carpet and headliner.
http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v337/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37832045_9297.jpg

Why is the seat in? Too sit in and make driving noises of course.

http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v337/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37832046_9644.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v337/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37832047_9961.jpg

[Eatoniashoprat]

Progress pics. I got it running last week. Now I'm really itching since its so close to driving. Although I think its going to snow in the next few days so it might get finished and then have to sit until May.

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v320/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37891428_8052.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v320/51/101/81014637/n81014637_37891429_8791.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v350/51/101/81014637/n81014637_38068061_896.jpg

http://photos-637.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v372/51/101/81014637/n81014637_38244799_9391.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v372/51/101/81014637/n81014637_38244800_9660.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v372/51/101/81014637/n81014637_38244803_470.jpg

[evilC]

................................... Although I think its going to snow in the next few days so it might get finished and then have to sit until May.



Why, do you get snowed in or are you hiberating??:lmao: Get out and drive it - you'll enjoy yourself. Snow tyres at the ready........................:cool:

evilC

[Eatoniashoprat]

Why, do you get snowed in or are you hiberating??:lmao: Get out and drive it - you'll enjoy yourself. Snow tyres at the ready........................:cool:

evilC

Haha, Well I will probably take it for a drive or two even if it does snow, but I don't think it will be enjoyable ploughing it through snow drifts, thats what my winter car is for (92 jetta turbo diesel). Plus I don't exactly trust other drivers not to smash into it, especially at the beginning of snow season when everyone is learning to drive on ice all over again.

[Jim]

There are no more updates on this beautiful thread??

[evilC]

There are no more updates on this beautiful thread??

He's still hibernating!.............or stuck in snow!:lmao::cool::cool::p

[Eatoniashoprat]

Hey guys, the project didn't move very far last summer. I was having some tuning issues, ended up the MAF was really dirty and throwing everything off.

Then I was having oil pan issues, still am actually. The pan I was running originally had no baffles in it so turning or stopping under small g-forces I would lose oil pressure!:eek: I took it apart a few times and built some baffles into it, and I'm still not completely satisfied. Under hard braking it still has issues. I installed an oil accumulator (like an accusump) and it helped but I want that as a back-up and not a crutch.

I'm going to cut the factory pan down like the outfront motorsports pan and try that, the lost oil capacity is made up in the oil accumulator which adds 1.5-2L.

Then I can drive it like it was meant to be driven.

Anyway here are some pics from a carshow a few weekends ago. I didn't build the car to 'show', more to drive, but one of my goals was to enter it in this particular show because it was the show we went to growing up. Sort of a rights of passage for me to have entered a car in it, and ended up winning best modified VW!

Take care

Mike

http://www.magix-photos.com/mpfw02/10/E2/57/E8/90/515B11DFB7C36BCCA054FEF1/E8766030515B11DF88284BFD011B565E.jpg

http://www.magix-photos.com/mpfw02/10/E5/E5/55/10/515B11DF96B5FD39A054FEF1/EB81F280515B11DF8190BE4308CB9B51.jpg

http://www.magix-photos.com/mpfw02/10/F1/3A/2E/40/515B11DF9C401E0BA054FEF1/F86E3490515B11DFAC413FC86F1265EF.jpg

[Humble]

Very cool and it looks fantastic, nice to see some updated pics :)

[Eatoniashoprat]

Thanks! Here is another pic I found

I've got a decent tune on it right now that will run and drive the car quite well, and runs up to about 11psi. The timing isn't optimum (conservative and not very smooth) but I'm waiting for dyno time to really dial it in. The motor should be fairly reliable up to about 18 psi, but for mainly street driving (some auto-cross and some drag strip) I think 15-16psi with careful tuning it should be plenty fast enough :).

http://www.magix-photos.com/mpfw02/10/78/C4/BA/B0/517011DF9CA4E0CFA054FEF1/829AE320517011DF93DFCF75AB239DB8.jpg

[Humble]

I'd be worried about the tranny at 18psi, hell even Jack's killed a few with light boost :) Are you using Albins/Weddle gears?

[Eatoniashoprat]

I'd be worried about the tranny at 18psi, hell even Jack's killed a few with light boost :) Are you using Albins/Weddle gears?

1,2 gears are stock, 3,4 are coarse tooth bus gears (late splined 3-4 shift hub that uses factory 002 gears). These gears have the syncro hub welded to the gear from the factory.

Ratios are 3.78, 2.06, 1.26, .82

944 CV's

The tranny is the late 'zig-zag' case with the extra ribs on the top. I won't be running slicks on it, and if I do they will be small (7") so I'm not too worried about gears breaking.

Tranny life will depend on traction (shockload) and sometimes moreso the guy behind the wheel. I'm not one to dump the clutch or anything so I'm confident it will stay together. We'll find out!!

I just remembered theres a guy on the samba with a +400hp turbo'd honda motor and last I checked his trans was still alive.

[bow]

that things sexxy :)

[Humble]

Yeah, Jeff helped to build that k20 bug and I think stupid fast is a good description of it. As far as I know he's using a rancho pro-drag swing axle tranny, also without weddle gears. I'm trying to convince the same guy to give me a hand with my swap and possibly "the next big project" down the road.

[NO_H2O]

Nice ride.

[Eatoniashoprat]

Update

After a bunch of tuning I've found that my intercooler solution (I should have known) is not the greatest. Although it fits nice and looks impressive it can only handle about 11 psi with the current setup before temperatures go through the roof. I'm using a GM intake air temperature sensor and datalogging it. I've bought an air to water Spearco unit good for upto 500hp, but I don't want to stop driving the car right now so it will have to wait until next winter to get installed. I plan to put it in the luggage tray behind the rear seat so it will get no heat soak at all, then put a cooler spaced a couple inches in front of my rad up front. hopefully it will handle 300hp, which is all I'm after :lmao:.

In other news:

I installed 150lb/in 10" QA1 springs in the front as well as bilstein dampers. My first regret is buying 10" springs instead of 12", I'm at the highest adjustment slot in these pics.

On the street I find the 150lb/in to be on the edge of being too harsh, keeping in mind that the streets around here are not smooth and there are giant potholes to dodge everywhere. If the roads were nice and smooth with the occassional bump I wouldn't hesitate going even stiffer. I just saw that QA1 has a 12" 100-200lbs variable rate spring which might be the perfect balance. Anyone wanna buy some 10" springs lol?

On the track it handled as expected, even more understeer than before. I found a set of 944s torsion bars and anti-roll bar that will be getting installed when I have time but for now I'm stuck with it pushing reaally bad in the corners. The only way I could steer is by doing all braking in a straight line and trying to use the brakes to compress the front right before the corner. I'm new to all this in cars so its been a learning experience.

After seeing the picture below I'm going to have to go and check that the front k-frame bolts are still there because it looks like the body is lifting off the frame. A couple guys mentioned that the front tire was getting 3-4" off the ground.

Comments welcome
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/852/img8474.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9323/img8477s.jpg

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/3860/img8357o.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6696/img8355h.jpg

[volkdent]

Cool action shots!!!

Jason

[Humble]

Understeer and lifting the inside front tire could be caused by the same thing, rear springs/TBs that are too soft. I'd look into stiffer rear bars or coilovers before you touch anything up front.

Other than that it looks fantastic and seems to take a flogging well. I'm sure it pins you to the seat pretty good too :D

[Eatoniashoprat]

Understeer and lifting the inside front tire could be caused by the same thing, rear springs/TBs that are too soft. I'd look into stiffer rear bars or coilovers before you touch anything up front.

Other than that it looks fantastic and seems to take a flogging well. I'm sure it pins you to the seat pretty good too :D

Thats good to hear, thanks. The very next thing on my list is install the 944 TBs and rear sway bar that I have. These pictures are all with the stock rear TB's and no rear sway bar. It understeers bad even with no throttle on, when you get on the gas it just wants to go in a straight line. Frustrating but I'll update this again once I make some changes and try it.

Mike

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Eatoniashoprat,

From some of the pics that our work firewall permits it looks like you are running the topline struts (page1) with the Bilsteins and 150 lb springs upfront, as well as topline swaybar and a strut bar, correct?

In the back it looks like, no sway bar, a kafer bar, and those white struts which I can't read or remember who makes, is that correct?

Definitely sounds like the front is sprung a little too stiff when compared to the rear.. hence your comment about thicker TB in the rear?

Couple of questions, were the bilsteins valved or designed for the weight of those springs? While this won't address your turn in issue, I am curious as to the setup, and how the car handled (transition of weight, front to back, side to side).

Having tracked an AWD, a frt Engine-rear wheel drive and a front engine-front wheel drive, puts me at a knowledge disadvantage with how the rear engine-rear wheel drive aught to be set up or handle.. but me thinks lifting 3-4" is a little much.. but not uncommon, as seen in some BMW such as the e30.. guess my point, and I am assuming since you make a comment about new to this.. is that be careful, not to make the car to difficult to drive on the track. Find something that eventually has a little understear and somewhat forgiving.. Coming in hot into a corner about 80 mph in a turbo AWD, and going sideways is not fun, but punch it and the front grabs and pulls you through it, did the same driving my old 330, and it was a little different in experience.. both cars were pretty balanced and could induce a little overstear to help get the rear round quickly if I needed, but under most conditions they were neutral with a little understear.. I use to run (hopefully, next year we get a car out to the track) in the north east, and places like Watkins Glen can be dangerous (125+ straights) if you have a tail happy car.. as can be see by the many Porsches that end up in the wall while lifting to quickly.. There is an art to getting those things to rotate, but I will be right behind you relearning in a few years.. for now I am just a by-stander..

Don't forget tires, brake pads will be part of you upgrade path to more speed..

Depending on the type of track and how these cars handle (SBs) you may want to play around with Springs Lbs vs torsion bar size, vs swaybar size..
Some cars like not having a rear sway bar and running heavy springs and TB, with appropriately matched strut cartriges..

Food for thought, but I am interested in your set up, as I may be ditch my Topline struts for some 944 housings with some koni's (beetle, 944 or custom valving) for the front (unsure of spring weight yet) and TPLINE SB, and for the rear probably sticking with the koni's for the beetle or 944 with 944S SB..
Car will run slicks (avons or khumos), 944 turbo calipers and race pads to complete the package.
VR
Alex

[Eatoniashoprat]

Alex,

You have it right, and the rear shocks are kyb gas-adjusts.

Keep in mind that so far I've only had it doing auto-cross and a few high speed on/off ramps, I won't get to a road-course for awhile.

I knew that going to 150lb springs in the front was going to make it handle worse, but it was the first change I had to make because the topline springs (~70lbs/in) were so soft that I could grab the bumper and push it down to bottom, and I'm not a very big guy.

The Bilstien's are just the non adjustable sport versions (albiet very expensive) and I'm unsure of the valving on them but they are a good bit stiffer than the sachs GTI inserts that came with the toplines.

In my non-expert opinion it feels really good and very tight. With no throttle or engine braking it won't steer, under throttle its even worse (pushes straight), in autocross I can't get it to trail brake. On 60mph off ramps I can steer by trail braking but that's the only way to get it to turn, and you have to be going pretty fast for it to work.

Tires will come once I get the suspension more balanced. On an autocross track I can't imagine needing more brake, maybe once I get tires I'll notice. The 150lb springs helped the brakes out quite a bit, I think its because the topline springs were bottom out and then the tires would skid. I think that's still happening but under much harder braking, which I why I either need to get the front end another 1/2" higher or go with a progressive spring.

Like I mentioned earlier, next step will be 944 TB's and sway bar, adjust sway, and see how it works. Keep in mind I drive this car to work everyday and take frequent road trips so there will be SOME sacrifice in all-out race setup versus being street friendly.

Thanks for the comments

[Eatoniashoprat]

Also, this is an embarrasing question to ask, but in a super beetle in the front k-frame, near the sway bar mounts there are two holes. I don't have any bolts in there, there is a little tab above them on the body but it didn't look like something you would bolt to.

I bought this car completely stripped down and part of the front end had been replaced, is the body supposed to be tied in to the pan there? It would seem to make sense?

Its my first beetle, :lmao: don't judge me, lol

Mike

[Steve C]

Hi

Yep should be a fairly large bolt fitted in there.

Steve

[evilC]

Mike,
do you know what the cornerweights are? My guess is like the others that the rear is way too soft for the front. Modify the rear of the car in stages so you can get a detailed assessment of the effect of each mod. Which TBs are you going to use? If they are the standard 944 - 23.5mm ones, even these might be too soft for the weight of that scooby in the rear. Why don't you get some coilover dampers or a kit for the KYBs and add your 10" 150lb/in springs onto it. At a guess, the combination with std 944 TBs will give the correct springing for the heavyweight rear although the KYBs might be a little soft on the damping side. A good rebuildable damper is the best way to go to allow further options.
I'm a firm believer in leaving the antiroll bar off until all the springs and dampers have been selected and then using them to fine tune the handling. I would interested to see what happens with the 150lb/in springs/billys up front and 944 23.5TBs with 150lb/in coilover in the rear with no antiroll bar front or rear. I think you will find that the current set up overloads the front outer tyre and the anti-roll bar has no chance of coping with the roll. Once the rearis stiff enough the load will be taken off the front outer and then steering will return.

Clive

Oops! just realised that you can't leave the front anti-roll bar off so just use the standard one for now.

[Eatoniashoprat]

Hi

Yep should be a fairly large bolt fitted in there.

Steve

okay thanks, I'll have to find another super and check it out because on mine there is a little tab on the body above that point, but there are no holes in it.

What made me think of this is because in this picture it looks like the body is flexing wrt the pan, if you look at the front apron and the roll bar. Could be just the angle/sun playing tricks though.

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=102&pictureid=1661

Mike

[Eatoniashoprat]

Hi Clive, The car is about 2350lbs, 42% front. So:
front: 987lbs
rear: 1363 lbs

I've run the numbers in my spreadsheet and with 150lbs in the front, stock rear TB's, and 150lbs rear coilovers gives (approximately) an 11.2%CPM difference, 104 front, 117 rear. So 150 lbs coilovers would be perfect as far as the numbers are concerned.

With the extra weight I think I will need the stiffer front AR bar as well as the rear AR bar. I mean, everybodies doing it :)! It seems that all the cars I see are running rear sway bars, is it because its needed? because its the thing to do? Compensating for too low rear spring rates? My car understeers even with the weight fully transfered to the front. The only way to get the rear to turn is by serious trail braking at high speeds, massive amounts of throttle input turns the rear into a steamroller and the car straightens even more.

Mike


Mike,
do you know what the cornerweights are? My guess is like the others that the rear is way too soft for the front. Modify the rear of the car in stages so you can get a detailed assessment of the effect of each mod. Which TBs are you going to use? If they are the standard 944 - 23.5mm ones, even these might be too soft for the weight of that scooby in the rear. Why don't you get some coilover dampers or a kit for the KYBs and add your 10" 150lb/in springs onto it. At a guess, the combination with std 944 TBs will give the correct springing for the heavyweight rear although the KYBs might be a little soft on the damping side. A good rebuildable damper is the best way to go to allow further options.
I'm a firm believer in leaving the antiroll bar off until all the springs and dampers have been selected and then using them to fine tune the handling. I would interested to see what happens with the 150lb/in springs/billys up front and 944 23.5TBs with 150lb/in coilover in the rear with no antiroll bar front or rear. I think you will find that the current set up overloads the front outer tyre and the anti-roll bar has no chance of coping with the roll. Once the rearis stiff enough the load will be taken off the front outer and then steering will return.

Clive

Oops! just realised that you can't leave the front anti-roll bar off so just use the standard one for now.

[Humble]

The rear is way too soft right now, I know because I'm dealing with the same problem on my street bug :) It's got the same behaviour and it drives me crazy. I think Clive is on the right track with the addition of 150#/in rear coil overs on top of what you already have. If you want to stick with torsion bars I'd suggest a stiffer 25mm bar instead of the 23.5mm which I think might be too soft still for the weight of the subie.

Normally, with a well setup beetle, turn in should be instant and direct without hesitation. As the suspension loads up it'll feel like it's turning sharper on it's own (a feature of the suspension design) and should be neutral with a tendency to understeer when pushed to it's limits.

Right now when your bug enters into a corner the weight transfers to the outside rear because its the softest corner. With the weight away from the front wheels they can't do their job so it pushes. To make matters worse, when you finally pour on the power coming out of the corner what little weight you had on the outside front corner now transfers to the rear as the rear end squats. Basically, the beetle is a point and squirt car at this stage, since there's too much weight transfer to do more than one thing at a time.

[evilC]

Mike,

If you haven't already got the 944 TBs then as you have the coilsprings a decent upgraded pair of dampers sounds like the way to go with the stock TBs - maybe some QA1s on the rear?

Be cautious of just adding a rear anti-roll bar as understeer is predominently safe, oversteer can catch you out and as I said I prefer to use anti-roll bars as fine tuners rather than expecting them to deal with fundamentals.

I'm signing off now for a couple of weeks so I will have to check out this thread when I get back - enjoy yourself!

Clive

[Bug@5speed(US)]

Clive, please don't leave us.. :)

Will be missed as your insight is well appreciated..
Alex

[Eatoniashoprat]

Clive have a nice time away

I just checked QA1's site and they have a 140lbs 9" spring for the rear and that would go just right with the 944 TB's (which I already have).

I looked at 9" coil over spring length because that's what Sandeep used (going by his pics). But I'll have to do some measuring to see what spring length to use, might be different than Sandeep as he is using 400lb springs so a 10" spring might be in order for 140-150lbs.

have a good weekend

Mike

[Eatoniashoprat]

So I might win the dumbest thing of year award on this site, I don't want to admit this but I did not have the front body mount bolts installed. :eekno:

Single best modification to my beetle: connecting the body to the frame. :o

When I bought my car it was just bare steel that a guy had done a bunch of body work to, so I'd never taken a beetle apart before to see where everything goes. He also replaced front body mounts with some new steel but there were no holes or anything to bolt to.

I had to drill a 5/8" hole in the inner fender to gain access to the inside of the body mount to fit a nut inside there,drill a hole up from the bottom and hold the nut tight with a screw driver.

All I can say is WOW does it drive better now :lmao:. The k-frame and body before were flexed apart by about an inch, and the bolts sucked them together.

Mike

[ricola]

Glad you sorted it in the end!

[owdlvr]

Mike, taking it down the quarter last night...


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4869548016_1c2ee65e87_z.jpg


-Dave

[Eatoniashoprat]

Sweet photo thanks for posting that Dave,

To be honest I was a little dissappointed with the quarter mile results but now to troubleshoot. I was running 11-12 psi on the second run and trapped 92 mph. At 2300lbs that translates to like 150hp at the flywheel :confused:. I ran 102 mph last year at the same boost (different track elevation, about 1000ft higher), timing map was slightly different. But even 100 mph seems slow for the power to weight.

Maybe the intake tract is too restrictive? Maybe I didn't have the throttle right to the mat? I'm looking into it :)

[Bugged]

Can I ask what size and brand fenders you are running? Both front and back, as well as wheel and tire sizes. Thanks! Looking sweeet!

[Eatoniashoprat]

Can I ask what size and brand fenders you are running? Both front and back, as well as wheel and tire sizes. Thanks! Looking sweeet!

Creative Car Craft, 3" wider rear, 2" wider front

Size: Front 16x7" / Rear 16x8"
Offset: Front 23.3mm / Rear 10.6mm

For the record the fenders were amazing quality. They came with a gel coat, fit perfectly and needed virtually no smoothing, just paint. Can't say that about all fibreglass fenders.

[evilC]

Thanks to all for the good wishes.

Clive have a nice time away

I just checked QA1's site and they have a 140lbs 9" spring for the rear and that would go just right with the 944 TB's (which I already have).

I looked at 9" coil over spring length because that's what Sandeep used (going by his pics). But I'll have to do some measuring to see what spring length to use, might be different than Sandeep as he is using 400lb springs so a 10" spring might be in order for 140-150lbs.

have a good weekend

Mike

Mike, the length of spring will be dictated by the ride height (and any variation you might want to dial in later) and the maximum compression allowed that'll be defined by the bumpstops. With that criteria maximise the spring length for two reasons:
1) It'll give you maximum range of spring selection and strain the spring less.
2) It will load the damper lower down the tube where its stiffer and lateral bending won't be an issue.

So I might win the dumbest thing of year award on this site, I don't want to admit this but I did not have the front body mount bolts installed. :eekno:

Single best modification to my beetle: connecting the body to the frame. :o

When I bought my car it was just bare steel that a guy had done a bunch of body work to, so I'd never taken a beetle apart before to see where everything goes. He also replaced front body mounts with some new steel but there were no holes or anything to bolt to.

I had to drill a 5/8" hole in the inner fender to gain access to the inside of the body mount to fit a nut inside there,drill a hole up from the bottom and hold the nut tight with a screw driver.

All I can say is WOW does it drive better now :lmao:. The k-frame and body before were flexed apart by about an inch, and the bolts sucked them together.

Mike

I feel for you, we have all forgotten to fit/tighten fixings so don't be embarassed and if it reinforces the checking procedure then highlighting it is well worthwhile.
By far the most interesting aspect of this tale is the effect of the body to the overall chassis stiffness. There is a presumption that because the floor pan is a separate element labelled 'chassis' it is as stiff as it needs to be. That is not true as shown by your experience. Extending the philoshopy that the body stiffens the chassis, then providing additional strut stiffeners by way of roll cage and struts in the luggage and engine bay can be of demonstrable benefit for car control. I have a suspension strut brace but I will also be looking at additional bracing in the luggage compartment as well as a cup brace in the engine compartment and your experience has dispelled any lingering doubts about doing so.

Clive

[Eatoniashoprat]

More adventures in suspension tuning!

I installed the 944 rear TB's (still with 150lbs front springs, 19mm front AR bar and no rear AR bar). And the car actually feels somewhat balanced now, what a difference! The front is still quite a bit stiffer than the rear but with no throttle I can make it oversteer! This felt like a major accomplishment consider how bad it used to push.

Even just during the daily drive to work the turn in is much more responsive.

I want to try the 944 rear anti-sway bar as the next change. Right now if you force it into an oversteer situation the rear comes out very sudden and my hopes are that a rear anti-sway bar will make it more predictable at the limits. Does this make sense?

Further, after putting a few thousand miles on the 150lb front springs they feel a little stiff, like they barely move driving on the street. I'm thinking, since I want to go to a taller spring (or threaded sleeves) for more adjustment, 130lbs might be the right balance (and go figure it matches exactly front and rear what judgie is running on his race car).

Mike

[evilC]

Hi Mike,
With 150lb/in springs on the front the 944 rear TBs will be a little too soft to balance the car (I think), especialy with the heavy Scooby motor. I'm running 100lb/in front and 944TBs on the rear with a standard T1 motor. It has a 14mm 944 rear A/R bar but that is for autotesting and if it gets too tail happy for my wife and daughter I will simply disconnect it until I need it. Springs in 2 1/4" format are quite cheap so it is eminently feasible to try 100lb/in and 130lb/in springs to see which gives the best balance. You then have a choice to increase your roll stiffness - thicker/add AR bars or increase the rear spring rate. Your dampers are I assume adjustable to cope with the varying spring rate?

I do have a gut feeling that the best balance/drivability will be 130lb/in front springs 19 AR bar, 25.5mm equiv TBs with a 14mm A/R bar.

Clive

[B-rock]

What brake setup are you running?

[owdlvr]

So the latest rumor is someone's GL is in the newest issue of UltraVW.

I haven't seen it yet, but it will be part of the Great Canadian Volkswagen Show coverage...

-Dave

[ricola]

Yup, looks lke they have used the same picture twice tho...

[Eatoniashoprat]

WHAT!? Wow I never thought that would happen! Thanks for the heads up Dave, now to find a copy in Saskatoon.


Mike