Stock size fender clearance, optimal setup

[vwfan53]

Please do not shoot me if the answer to this question has already been posted. I am actually under a time crunch and 'at work' at the moment. Thanks....

First, the set up I have in mind is as follows.

-1963 Swing Axel Bug
-CB Performance Dropped Spindles (these do not push the wheels out) 2.5" drop up Front
-Red9Design 2" Dropped Spring plates in the rear
-Bilstein stock length shocks
-CB Performance Front Disk Brakes w/Porsche Pattern
-CB Performance Rear Disk Brakes w/Porsche Pattern
-Stock length beam

That said, what offset/backspacing with how big of a wheel/tire combo can I use with no rubbing. With Stock Fenders. I also do not wish to cut and narrow the beam

I am open to all suggestions as none of the above is carved in stone yet. This car is a daily driver, so some comfort is required.

Finally, what could I get away with with 2~3" widend fenders, in the event I choose to go wide.

Thanks
-Paul

[richiep]

I aksed a very similar question about a month or so ago - check out the following threads

Wheels and tires
offset and et numbers - help I'm confused

Suspension
Beam Shortening
Dropped spindles etc

I am hoping to go with a similar setup to the one you are looking at -

Kerscher brakes (vented front), disk rear and CB dropped spindles.

I Don't want to narrow the beam either.


I have decided to go for either 911 fuchs 15x5.5, mahle or pedrini alloys as these all have a 42mm offset and will allow decent rubber without having to narrow the beam. The Fuchs are my first choice 'cos I like the look of them, 4 lug Mahle second 'cos you can detail em up to look like Gas Burners (if you squint) and the pedrini's third 'cos the look crap!

One thing - and I'm guessing here because I've only ever run 155 tyres on the front of my bug - is to avoid the temptation of over - tyreing the front of your car. You'll have less clearance probs if you stick with say a 175 or 185 tire on the front. My 911 came over from germany where I guess the roads are a lot better than in the UK and it had 225s on the front and it was awfull on the pot hole'd, uneven UK roads. Real bad tram-lining, aquaplaneing and squirming over white lines. Where's that ace 911 steering I thought? Swapped the front tires to 195s and everything was far better - loads more feel through the steering, virtually no tramlinig etc. Much better in the wet as well. I guess the same applies to a bug 'cos of the similar weight distribution.


Oh, another thing I have just thought of is that I need to check if the wheels will clear the calipers - I had probs with clearance with the kerscher rear kit and 5.5in chromies on the back of my speedster. Had to "adjust" the caliper slightly with the grinder.

[vwfan53]

Well I have the wheels I will be using now. Actually they should be arriving any day now. I got a great deal on some Fuchs.

I will have:
---------------
Fuchs 15x6 in the front
Fuchs 15x7 in the rear

I am torn between using a 185/55 or a 195/50 up front. There are limited tire mfg who make 185/55. 195/50 seem very common. I have also been watching diameters. I can keep the height the same with the 195's but am worried about the width, and other problems you mention. IF YOU ARE RUNNING 195/50's PLEASE RESPOND WITH YOUR IMPRESSIONS....Beam front end

In the back the wheels came with 255/50's WIDE. Not sure if I will keep them. The guy I bought them from said they fit on his stock fendered 1965, but somehow I find that hard to believe.

At any rate I have been considering the Keith Sueme reccomendation of 185/55/15 front and 215/60/15 rear. But those are somewhat odd sizes and limits my brand choices.

Brakes:
----------
For budget, etc, I am most likely going to go with the CB Performance total Disc brake package. Front and Rear 5x130 dropped spindles.

Lowering:
-------------
CB Dropped spindels, adjustable beam left at stock height for only the 2.5" Drop at the front. (the 185/55 take another inch off height as their diameter is only 23".

Red9Design 2" lowered spring plates in the rear.

...and Bilsteins all around.

This car is going to be driven daily in the summers, and hopefully on some extended trips, so some comfort is required.

-Paul
63 Bug

[vujade]

VWfan53... as far as using higher aspect ratios in the rear, that is a cal look trend. That is not optimal for handling. You want to try to keep your tire diameters even in height. So if you would like wider tires in the rear, take note of most sports cars (ie Porsche, etc), they usually go to a lower aspect ratio in the rear.

So if you go 185/55/15 in the front
then the rear should be 215/50/15 Not 60

If you go 60, you will have a big littlle tire combo like a cal look bug.

richiep... another recommendation for your front tires would be to use a wet weather tire in the front & a dry tire in the rear. These wet weather tires usually have large grooves in them to plain thru water. I believe Pirelli has come up with a setup like this, where they use a wet weather tire in front & an assymetric tire in the rear. This allows the car to plane thru water better.

[Sandeep]

You have the dropped spindles and lowered beam.....

Why don't you go with a tire closer in dia with the rear ? you can adjust it out with the lowered beam.

If the new tire is 24" in dia as opposed to the 23", you are raising the front of the car by 1/2". At the same time, you will decrease top of tire to fender clearance by 1/2". You can lower the car 1/2" (lower adj beam by 1/2") If you do this, the tire to fender clearance will decrease by 1".

Following this, I was able to fit 235/35/18 (24.5" dia) on the front of my bug, and 265/35/18 (25.3" dia) on the rear.... AND have the SAME stance as I did when I had 195/50/15 (22.8" dia) on the front (dropped 4") and 165/80/15 (25.4" dia) on the rear (dropped 2")

I've got 2" wider fronts and 3" wider rears...

Sandeep

[Philippe]

I run 195/50's on the front of my '73 standard. Porsche 2 liter 15x5.5" replicas with a 35mm offset. I had to fold the inner lip of the fender outward to prevent the tires from rubbing, after I messed up my driver's side tire pretty bad on a long trip.

When I get my 944 brake conversion/cb performance dropped spindles done, I will be running 16x7" phonedials with a 52mm offset, and most likely a 195/50 for that rim. They are an excellent compromise between performance and comfort. Plus there are less clearance issues.

[vwfan53]

Man, this forum rocks!

Ok, some good points above. Philippe, how low are you dropped?

Although I have/will have a Puma adjustable front beam, it will be left in the normal ride position. I figured since I needed a new beam anyway, might as well be adjustable, even if I have no immediate use for it.

Anyway....DIAMETERS.

I belive the stock VW tires were around 25". Most of the 195/50's are in the 22.x range. And low-pros 205 215's for the rear are in the 23.x" range.

Although clearence and non-rubbing is priority one. Will these profiles be too low with only a 2.5" / 2" drop. In terms of visually filling the wheel well.

Ok, now I am confused. The only for sure thing I currently have / own are Fuchs 15x6 and 15x7 wheels. I am open to any / all suggestions.

Priority's: No rubbing (stock fenders / stock beam / short axel swingaxel) & Performance Handling.

Thinking size in terms of tire section width and diameter.

Help,
-Paul
63 Bug

[Philippe]

Paul,

My car was really slammed for a while, there was almost zero fender gap up front. But then I was bottoming out on the highway at high speed which isn't too good. I raised it about 1/2", did the fender trick I mentioned above, and solved all of those problems.

I can't wait to get my dropped spindles though, it's going to make a HUGE difference in ride quality, and give me piece of mind about my balljoints not pulling out.

The 195/50 on a 15" rim may not fill up the wheelwells if you only want a 2" drop. I remember there being at least 3" between the tire and fender when my suspension was stock and I was running 195/60s.

Food for thought.

[Sandeep]

Paul,

With my beam dropped 4" and when I had the 195/50's up front, I had 1 1/2" of gap between the tire and fender.

When I cornered really hard, it would rub and the ride was TERRIBLE. I could feel every bump in the road. Not sure if it was because the stock balljoints were binding because the beam was at its lowest setting though ?

Thats one of the reasons I went with the dropped spindles as well... total adjustability... and better ride quality.

Sandeep