i need help, 924 or 944 brakes?

[i heart vw]

i have been wanting to put porsche brakes on my bug for some time and i have found a 924 at a junkyard and i was wondering if i should get the brakes or hold out and just get some 944...and are there any good sites for type 4 performance and GL Look stuff that are not in GERMAN!!! or french...tim

[vujade]

just a quick note... you can use AltaVista to translate foreign webpages. Sometimes it works pretty good.

AltaVista (http://babel.altavista.com/tr)

Once there, just copy & paste the address of the website you want to translate. Then change to the language you are translating it from and the language you are translating it into.

BTW... I dont think 924 Brakes are really that much of an upgrade over VW brakes, neither are early 944 calipers, they are both single piston like VW.

[Sandeep]

I believe the 924/944 disks are vented. They would be a great improvement over stock vw disk brakes, which are solid.

Sandeep

[elroocky]

just for information, to upgrade your brakes porsche is of course the easiest way, but 924 brakes are exactly the same as a boring GTI golf or audi 80 S, the only model interesting on a 924 is from the 924 Turbo model but this model is very rare from these days.. (only about 10000 models builts) these 924 turbo brakes are interesting, but they are expensive on spares part because the dimension or the disk, the seals and a few other part a only fitting on this model (not like the 944,944S,944Turbo, 944turbocup or the S2) witche most orthe part a similar and under the same reference..
the best quality/price for brake for a beetle from these days are 944 S brakes, easy to found, cheap on spares and very good for a little booster beetle.. but after it depens what you want....
for me forget the 924 brakes, and jump on a good old set or 944 S..

david

[kdanie]

I have early 944 NA brakes, they are much larger than any VW brakes. I believe the 924 (except 924 turbo) have a different bolt pattern from other Porsche hubs. You don't need multi piston calipers to be an upgrade in braking, they are just cooler. My opinion is, unless you are running very wide sticky tires you will run out of traction before you run out of brakes with the 944 NA set up. If you just want the wow factor, go for the multi piston calipers.
ken

[Pillow]

Well said Ken.

For normal people the standard 944 single pistons are overkill on a street Beetle.

Once you start tracking the car then things might change. But even auto-x will not need it, only hard core race tracks.

[Ron Roberts]

Pillow, Its refreshing to see someone knows its not Hp that makes it harder to stop. When I went from a worn out stock engine to a 2017, Believe it or not, it stoped just a s well as with a stock engine! :D

Ron

[Jim Andritsakos]

Hello guys!

924 brakes is good for recycling only!
4 lug single piston calipers front AND ..... DRUMS at rear !!!
951 S is quite good brakes 304x32 rotors and radial mount 928 S4 calipers.Easy upgrade to 993 TT 322x32 rotors.
The "S" spindles cannot be converted to install six piston calipers & 355mm or 380mm rotors.
The most easy to find and to obtain also brakes is from a 968.

Oh btw what is your car type standard or super ?

Ron : with the same transmission gear ratios correct ?

[Pillow]

Yup speed is speed no matter what engine gets it up there :)

In my opinion the standard 944 brakes are perfect for a street Bug. A little overkill but that is good!

The stock VW setup even with discs is too little in my opinion.

And as we all know tires really make the most difference even with good or bad brakes. As it is the frictional contact patch with the road.

Later,

[chigger]

The tire loading determines your braking distance. Assuming you have good brakes. Even stock brakes will lock up the tires. You must learn to modulate the brakes so they are just before lock up to stop quickly. Bigger brakes make it easier to lockup the tires. The Ghia front disk with the T3 rears is what I am running and they will send you through the windshield if your seat belt is not on.
Since I decided to built a racing GL I went with 944 ventilated rotors and wilwood calipers. The early 944 configuration is excellent and is designed for a heavier car. Unless you are racing it is probably overkill. It is also very heavy.
Here in lays the problem. You want to have your car handle and stop. If you go with the GL look with the wider Porsche wheel and tire and Porsche brakes you will add a heck of alot of weigth to the unsprung weight of the car. This directly affects handling. You can assume about 10 lbs more for the front and rear brakes and another 10 lbs for the wheel and tire combination. This is actually conservative. A total of 20 lbs per wheel. This means you will need stronger torsion bars, bigger shocks and larger anti sway bars. With a cast iron hub adapter, aluminum caliper adapter, cast iron venlated rotor, and four puck aluminum calipers I have managed to get super braking with out the weight penality. I if I had used a modified 944 hub I would have gotten even more weight reduction which would have compensated for the ten lbs of increased rim and tire combination. Hope this helps.

[i heart vw]

thanks for the help...all of you...so 944 is the way to go

tim

[Wally]

I also totally agree with you Chigger and Kdanie. The extra unsprung weigth is really a pity and the even larger discs of the 944 turbo set-up will probably not be compensated by the ligther alu brembo/porsche calipers...
However, if carbon discs would be availible for the 944 Turbo (be carefull what you wish for, it migth come true), the unsprung weigth would be significantly lower. The costs are probably also as high as the weigth saving....
Compromises, compromises.
Walter

[Pillow]

True that the 944 setup is heavy, well heavier than stock. But I think it is worth it overall.

Also consider fade resistance. With a Beetle and the 944 brakes I bet fade is almost zero, unless on a race track.

I know the VW stock discs can fade out as I have done it before in my previous '69 Beetle.

Plus even though adding weight for the bigger wheels and tires you are also getting a better contact patch which has a greater benefit than the additional weight or rolling mass.

The real PITA delima is that the bigger the tire the more HP it takes to move it as the rolling resistance increases. Of course less MPG as well. My compromise is to settle on 6" wheels with 205 or 215s - Lame compared to a bunch of people here :behind: , but for my needs I think it will work well... If not 7"s on the rear later.

Take Care,

[Michael Ghia]

Porsche 924 standard came with 4 stud wheels, disks up front (solid) and drums at the rear. These are the same size as Beetle 1500 brakes (Ghia brakes if you're in the U.S).
Forget them as they're a waste of time and you can't use the calipers either.
However... the 924S and 924Turbo (aswell as the 924GT) used the early 944 brakes (pre'85) so yes you can use those.
MG

[i heart vw]

should i use early or older 944 brakes?

[Michael Ghia]

Early or Older?
Pre '85 944 brakes are more than enough for most Bugs on the street. If you want to go for late 944 brakes and spend more money to look good... go for it but technically wise you won't need them.
MG

[Pillow]

The early 944 brakes are a known straight forward swap onto a Beetle. They are the single piston caliper which is easy to rebuild and parts are cheap. On the down side the front rotors are mounted inside the hub and all has to come off to change them.

The later 944 brakes were again single pot calipers. But the front rotors sat outside the hub and can be changed easily. Parts are more expensive for some of the stuff, but some are carry-over parts from the earlier 944.

Special sport models and the Turbo are totally different animals. Parts are expensive, but you get the big calipers. Also I do not think the 15" wheels can be used..?

In my opinion it is better to go with the early 944 parts just because the rotors are cheaper as they interchange with the 911 units. Granted the method of mounting is a big factor here as well. 944 bearings or Beetle bearings? What machining do you want to do? Blah blah blah.

Good Luck,

[i heart vw]

is there a "manual" on how to put 944 brakes on a beetle? and if not how hard or easy is it to put the brakes on?

[Michael Ghia]

Check out Performance Ghia (my website), German Look technical articles, http://www.ricola.co.uk amongst others.
What is your bug? this makes a big difference as to how you fit them.
MG

[i heart vw]

it is a 1303

[Michael Ghia]

What year? if it's post '73 then you have an almost bolt on application.
Check out all the websites with info on how to fit them.
http://www.performanceghia.com
German Look technical articles
MG

[Sandeep]

I can weigh the spindle/rotor/hub/bearings/adapter/caliper assembly if any one wants me to.

I'm just afraid of how heavy it really is !! Add the 18" wheels and it's scary !

I want to track race my car and I have no trouble going to 16" or 17" setup if I need to.... live and learn. I hope I can sell my setup if I have to !! :eek:

Sandeep