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70Turbobug
March 19th 2011, 06:31
...that was a close call! :eekno:

Humble
March 19th 2011, 13:14
That could have ended very badly! Hopefully you can get that turned around and get it running again soon.

Wally
March 19th 2011, 16:25
Yeah, did my best today to get it running next weekend. Used a ticker plate and had the divider wall protrude through the tube so I could weld it all the way through. Its 5 times stronger now 4sure and had now room to port the transitions inside the wastegate tubes a little as well :)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/TSheaderbouw002.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/TSheaderbouw006.jpg

volkdent
March 19th 2011, 17:24
Is there any reason to go with an external wastegate vs. an internal(turbo housing)? I'm trying to keep it simple, and I can't for the life of me figure out out if the external is necessary for my project.

Jason

Wally
March 19th 2011, 18:04
Is there any reason to go with an external wastegate vs. an internal(turbo housing)? I'm trying to keep it simple, and I can't for the life of me figure out out if the external is necessary for my project.

Jason

Well, the really large turbo's usually don't come internal, but there are advantages if you do have a choise. Most of them are for turbo nutcases only probably, but an external gate has its own exhaust and therefore does not hinder the exit of the turbine wheel. Keeping back pressure close to zero on the downpipe (turbo exhaust side) is what this does and that is crucial to a good turbo efficiency. A little more power can be had by this.
There is also the better boost control if you have a relatively large turbo and run low-ish boost. Internal gates can be somewhat small-ish and boost creep can happen then. External gate usually flow more and don;t experience boost creep.
Thirdly you can rotate the turbine housing more freely (in all positions, 'clocking' the turbo) if you don't have the arm of the internal gate to consider, which is usually attached to the compressor housing. That makes it easier to position the turbo any way you like wrt inlet and outlet openings ;)

Wally
March 28th 2011, 15:34
This sunday I participated in the "Automaxx Streetpower Toyo Tires shoot-out" pfft what a name...
but it was good fun, lovely weather and good practice to get some seat time in this 1/8th mile event.
100 mile drive one way.
All went well besides terrible traction and one side of the linkage that fell off (twice...) in 2 of the 6 runs I could do. I'll deff weld the arm to the shaft now! :twisted:

First run on a cold track, cold tires and too much boost:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkntN1YTjcI

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Automaxxshoot-outAssen.png

petevw
March 28th 2011, 16:06
Nice pic!

NO_H2O
March 28th 2011, 16:16
Can't keep a good man down for long. Good to see it back in action.

Sandeep
March 28th 2011, 23:08
Now that's a great picture ! Great to hear it roar again.

Sandeep

70Turbobug
March 29th 2011, 09:52
Sounds great Wally! You can really hear the spool up - very cool!

Wally
March 29th 2011, 10:55
Thx guys! It was great to be out on a track again.
Mark, where you hear it climb in the revs suddenly very soon, is where it spins the rear wheels...

Steve C
March 29th 2011, 18:14
Hi Wally

There was a post on here about bolt porn, the sound of your car is aural porn, love it.

Steve

Wally
April 9th 2011, 13:10
tnx Steve! Here's another run I found from that day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MF7GaaDzVA

Did a new dynorun today with same sort of problem as before: running lean up top...
Its not too small injectors, but since I can log fuel pressure as of yesterday, it showed that FP gradually deminished from 3,5 bar to 2,5 bar at 1,3 bar of boost. Even though I have a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator!
Lambda was approaching 1.0 again...and misfires occured.
I even changed the fuel filter on the dyno and gave a bit more max fuel correction (30 instead of max 20% before). Even though the run didn't misfire this time, it still ran lean (lambda 0.95+ but just rich enough not to misfire and the run ended in 418 hp up top (max rpm 7200). Atm, I think its too small a wire I used for both fuel pumps.

This was at 1,3 bar. I never got to my intended 1,6 bar...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/DynoHRengineeringapril2011004.jpg~original

fahrvergnugen
April 9th 2011, 16:16
:goodjob::clap::clap::clap:
Now get that fuel problem fixed and make a 450 run ;)

Wally
April 9th 2011, 16:41
:goodjob::clap::clap::clap:
Now get that fuel problem fixed and make a 450 run ;)

Yeah, that is kinda the idea Paul ;)

effvee
April 9th 2011, 20:35
Ah, Hi Walter:o, at what point will you be happy? Now don't get mad Walter, I'm in your corner. Is this engine a test bed/mule engine that can or ment to be sacrificed? I'd really like to see you just loving what you have done, thus the name Mythbuster. Enjoy your ride, nice work.

Wally
April 10th 2011, 05:47
Ah, Hi Walter:o, at what point will you be happy? Now don't get mad Walter, I'm in your corner. Is this engine a test bed/mule engine that can or ment to be sacrificed? I'd really like to see you just loving what you have done, thus the name Mythbuster. Enjoy your ride, nice work.

No worries Francelle, I hear you and your not the first one saying this ;)
There is no fixed limit to where I will be 'happy' as I really wouldn't know where the limit is at the moment. I also do not intentionally want to sacrifice the engine either mind you. If you were experiencing the things/data I do, you would also feel much more easy with the power levels surely. Its a step by step exploration of the possibilities so you will.

Case in point: At this moment we got 355 hp at just 1.0 bar boost and 418 with lambda approaching 1.0 (!), so lets round that off to 420 if fuel would have kept going. That's a 65 hp gain in just 0.3 bar. Therefore I see crazy power if I could have the fuel system handle 1.6 bar...:rolleyes: There doesn't seem to be any restriction to go there as the engine has run at 1.6 bar (and over) before.
All this with just 0.500" valvelift and moderate duration on a 2.2 engine with stock head castings, stock crank, rods and type 4 case.
When your this far involved as I am, you just constantly 'see' new areas that can be improved upon. To get there, you just not copy what you read on other vw aircooled related fora ;)
Tuning this far also brings out and enhences you own weaknesses and my weakness for now seems to be the wiring...:o

70Turbobug
April 11th 2011, 01:11
Considering that you do all the work yourself with little or no "professional" help the results and ghe evolution process of this engine earns the highest respect imho. Keep up the great work Wally! One way to find out if your wiring is too small would be to measure the amperage at the pump during a dyno run.If the amps are low (due to the wire being too small) the pump would run too slow.The specs of the pump i.e. on the box or papers should show how many amps the pump pulls.You should have that as a minimum value.

Wally
April 11th 2011, 03:27
Not too much credits to me pls Mark, give them to the type 4 engine instead ;)
The 044 pump alone can pull 15A and the low pressure Carter feed pump probably between 5 and 10A as well. I just had time yesterday to change the wiring to much bigger (3x) and put and extra relais in the trunk next to the battery, feed straight from battery plus its own fuse. Short test drive revealed the same low fuel pressure (from 3,5 bar to 2,5 bar FP) on boost instead of rising with boost... not good still.
Tested FPR again and with air pressure from the air compressor, fuel pressure rose nicely while engine was idling. So the FPR-rising-rate works, it just doesn' t kick in for some reason.
My remaining thought is that the boost reference line for the FPR is not giving it boost. I have that boost reference line Tee'd from a line where it also feeds the boost control relais. Since that one is now circulating with the top and bottom port of the external gate, maybe the boost reference line looses pressure when waste-gate kicks in(?).
At least thats my latest thought, so I have changed the T to another location and hope to test it somewhere this week...

70Turbobug
April 11th 2011, 06:12
Since that one is now circulating with the top and bottom port of the external gate, maybe the boost reference line looses pressure when waste-gate kicks in(?).

That's possible but if your FP is decreasing at 1.3 bar and you were hoping for 1.6 then I am assuming that you have your EBC set above 1.3 bar correct? So it would only steal pressure when the WG opens and not before?
Also, you didn't have this problem before at higher boost levels.Maybe your alternator is too weak to support the increased load that the pump and injectors are demanding? Just an idea, but I think the problem is actually elsewhere.Does your ECU control the fuel pump also? Is it possible that you may need a larger or an additional feed pump?

Wally
April 11th 2011, 13:04
Runs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97SNAq1e9gY

and warm-up on dyno (turbo whistle):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfBpkJnZgbc

effvee
April 11th 2011, 14:31
Walter, you are running a boost senitive fuel regulator arn't you? Is you fuel system looped? I have seen boost senitive regulators in a looped fuel system where the fulel pump pumps the same pressure all of the time, as boost demand are needed. It is the responsibility of the regulator to up fuel pressure. Amp and wire size can come into play if the pump is worn and tired, thus the need for more amps. Can you ECM log fuel pressuee and you not at what boost pressure?

Humble
April 12th 2011, 01:02
Your car is an animal, 418hp and still going! Hopefully you can sort out the fuel problem soon, sounds like you're on the right track with the boost tee.

As for the fuel pump, I believe you might be nearing it's limits. When I calculated my fuel needs at 100% duty cycle i got 3.8bar (55psi) flows about 230 LPH from the 044 pump and with 4x750cc injectors is 3 liters a minute or 180 LPH, which leaves me a good buffer. IIRC, you had 4x1000 injectors, 4 LPM or 240 LPH but the pump running at 3.5 bar can only supply around 237 LPH. Again, that's assuming 100% duty cycle but it looks like you may need more fuel in the future if you keep going.

Edit: That thought was half baked it seems, I just got back from Vegas so give me a break :)

I forgot to factor in the rising rate FPR, so here's a couple of quick numbers.
yours: initial fuel pressure 3.5 bar + 1.3 of added boost = 4.8 bar from the pump which is about 210 LPH and you need 237 LPH (again assuming 100% duty cycle)
mine: initial fuel pressure 3.8 bar + 1.7 of added boost = 5.5 bar from the pump which is about 175 LPH and I need 180 LPH (again assuming 100% duty cycle)

damn, I guess we will both need more fuel ;)

Wally
April 12th 2011, 03:25
Good post Humble!
I actually had similar thoughts, but some things I see IRL at the car just don't add up for me atm: I still do not see _any_ rise in fuel pressure when its comming on boost.
Did another test run last night and there's no increase in FP over the base 3.5 bar when on boost. On the contrary, FP still drops a bit to 3.25 or 3.0 bar with ~ 1 bar boost.
That was with the rerouted boost reference line.
Remember that I tested the FPR at idle with applying boost and it worked then, also matched by the log reading. So the FPR and the fuel pressure sensor read accurately (enough anyways).

With the better wiring (I assume I now have a few Volts more), the test drive last night actually showed the problem to be even worse, even at lower rpm and boost I experienced misfires from lean spikes (log showed very uneven lambda and high spikes).

My thoughts now are that the whole catch tank may be more of a restriction then a help, so I will by-pass that tomorrow and see if a direct feed from a full tank will help.
I am really puzzled so far...

Bruce.
April 12th 2011, 05:50
A few thoughs to be helpful.

If you can set up a voltmeter to measure the volts across the pump it will confirm if you have a problem with wiring (or a connector). If the volts drop across the pump when it is flowing lots of amps, there is another source of electrical resistance between the pump and the Bat/alternator.

I'm also guessing you have a genuine 044 from a known seller? Apparently there are copies on Ebay which look good but don't perform.

Is the supply to the pump (pipe sizes and tank port) big enough? A fuel pressure sensor at the 044 input would show if there is always positive pressure at the input. If the 044 has to suck the fuel at high flow rates, the output pressure would drop.

good luck!

Wally
April 12th 2011, 17:14
Thanks Bruce!

I just removed the catch tank and Carter feed pump and now I can maintain my target lambda all the way to redline under 20 psi of boost. Now that was fun :D

You were probably close with the feed to the 044 not being optimal. The intake line is 1/2" internal from the tank to the feed pump, so plenty big, but entrence into catch tank is only 7mm internal, so almost half that size. For the low pressure Carter pump probably a little too much of a restruction to get to full flow.
Feed to the 044 itself from the catch tank is 1/2" or about -12 iirc, but if there's only one restriction...

Now the 044 sucking straight from the 1/2" from under the tank works well, but at higher boost, the rising rate pressure suffers a little and doesn;t follow the boost pressure quite. That leads me to believe the 044 is somehow running a little on the edge in my set-up.
For now it will do, but maybe a second pump may be wise in the long run.

Thanks for thinking along all!

70Turbobug
April 13th 2011, 04:39
Glad to hear you found the problem, Wally.Will you modify the catch tank and continue to use it or is there no need for it?
I'm exited now what you pull on the dyno - then again I might get jealous:D

Wally
April 13th 2011, 05:36
Glad to hear you found the problem, Wally.Will you modify the catch tank and continue to use it or is there no need for it?

Good question. Right now I have no hurry to change it. There is a need for it however when I start circuit driving it again. At Spa-francorchamp and on the Ring, when the fueltank level only dropped to half full, I already started having fuel deprivation in long high spee corners... that was/is my reason for the catch tank.

I hope to run one or two Time Attack events, but those are only 20 minutes track time, so I might just be ok for now till end of season? We'll see.

I'm exited now what you pull on the dyno - then again I might get jealous:D
Maybe end of season a dynorun again if everything is still in one piece by then :rolleyes:

Steve Arndt
April 13th 2011, 15:09
What fuel pressure sensor and gauge do you have?

When I was having miss fires under load I needed to check fuel pressure. My only option at the time was a long hose from rear to front, and a gauge taped to the windshield. That is a bit unnerving!

s

Wally
April 13th 2011, 15:30
What fuel pressure sensor and gauge do you have?

When I was having miss fires under load I needed to check fuel pressure. My only option at the time was a long hose from rear to front, and a gauge taped to the windshield. That is a bit unnerving!

s

I don't have a gauge, I just run a VDO 0-5 bar oil press. sensor just after the pump inline and log the values :cool:. In hindsight the 0-10 bar would have been more appropiate, but I haven't run out of range yet. Unfortunately...
DTA has already the VDO sensor's calibrations as stock in the ecu, amongst many other press. sensors and I just have to click the right one and it knows what and how to measure.

scourtaud
April 18th 2011, 18:56
Double post sorry

scourtaud
April 18th 2011, 18:57
Hi,

I keep following your post as sort of a dream that I'll never go for (doesn't fit my usage of my beetle) but still, I'm impressed.

About the Fuel pressure, I run a CB Quicktune kit on my 2007 engine and I also have issues with the fuel pressure that I don't understand. All I know from the logs is that fuel pressure (3bar / 45psi) at idle tends to drop quickly after the engine has been running for a few minutes. I get the feeling the fuel pressure regulator aren't all that reliable but I have no certainty.
I have done some testing, it has nothing to do with angle of the FPR or temperature, it just happens...

Maybe you could try changing the FPR and see if it solves your problem.

Seb

70Turbobug
April 19th 2011, 03:29
Maybe the feed line from the tank to the pump is too small? If thereīs not enough volume,you wonīt be able to hold the required pressure.

Wally
April 21st 2011, 06:01
I'm also guessing you have a genuine 044 from a known seller? Apparently there are copies on Ebay which look good but don't perform.

Whats a 'known seller' worth these days huh?
The info in this link I recently found comparing a fake chinese copy 044 and a real one was really helpfull.
Just for the record: I have a real Bosch 044 ;)

http://trolltuner.com/?p=692

Bugscandrift
April 23rd 2011, 09:37
Wally, your car is absolutely my inspiration..

Wally
April 26th 2011, 15:30
Thanks man!

Since installment of the 25,5mm torsion bars I have felt some severe trembling of the wheels when doing a burn-out on a less watered surface.
The extra brace from fork to cage didn't make a difference either, so I concluded it must be my now 20+ year old Bilstein gas shocks not up to the task of controlling my thicker torsion bars.

As Santa Pod is rapidly approaching as well as Time Attack in june, I opted for the shocks that Porsche delivers with the M030 option afaik on the 944T: Koni yellow-Sport shocks. They are a safe bet that they will match the torsion bars, are oil and gas filled and single adjustable.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Konigeel001.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Konigeel002.jpg

volkdent
April 26th 2011, 17:56
You crack me up!!! 400hp and 20yo shocks, you are a nut!:lmao:

Jason

Steve C
April 27th 2011, 01:17
Hi Wally

I have the same 944 Konis for my bug. Is the steel section around the shock base for a sway bar?

Steve

judgie
April 27th 2011, 03:36
you could of got the billys rebuilt. konis are a good chocie but i allways try and go with bilstiens, i'm a rally man at hart.

Wally
April 27th 2011, 04:16
You crack me up!!! 400hp and 20yo shocks, you are a nut!:lmao:

Jason
You're right about the nut part anyhow :lmao: but the 20 year old Bilsteins were still in very good condition, but probably out of their spec range atm.
If it aint broke....right? :D
Bilstein and Koni are both quality products and usually last a lifetime.

but you may have been right though that it was a little overdue to replace them. I just always have wanted to go to coil-over after these, but am/were still on the fence about what and how. It just could not wait any longer now.

Steve: yes, they are for the aussie-made Whiteline sway bar attachment ;)

Rob: The Bilsteins are not worn or anything, but just could not cope the stiffer sway bar imo. I don;t think you can upgrade the valving on those? Or can you?

The only thing I would have wished is the attachment eyes would have been nicer if they could have been a uni-ball joint top and bottom. Someday I hope someone thinks of a way to put that into these Koni's.

Funny thing was, I ordered these with Paragon products in the US and these Holland-made shocks were cheaper there including transport then that I would have ordered them here...I had a very hard time ordering these over here anyways, so ordering them online was easier and faster after all too.
Gotta love the internet.

Bruce.
April 27th 2011, 09:19
Bilstein UK used to be able to rebuild shocks. They tested on a dyno, drained the oil, changed all the seal and checked the rod. Re-valving was an option too. However, I don't know if they still offer this service and not all units can be rebuilt.

There is also a customising/motorsport service at Bilstein (de?) and can be contacted via +49 (0) 2333-791-4444

judgie
April 29th 2011, 04:20
i wouldn't want to run uni-ball on a street car, even more so with the mileage you do. very harsh and they dont last long with the dirt on the roads.
I'm with you on the coil over on the rear, i dont think its a upgrade. only way of doing it imho is the way j-sport have done it on there race car.

70Turbobug
April 29th 2011, 06:28
i wouldn't want to run uni-ball on a street car, even more so with the mileage you do. very harsh and they dont last long with the dirt on the roads.

I would have to disagree,sorry.If you do a lot of offroading,then eventually the uni-ball will wear out and become sloppy,but it wasnīt designed for such use.I see many cars here that use uni-ball set ups,not just bugs as "daily drivers" with no problems at all.Some like the uni-ball set up from Remmele or MBT and some donīt for various reasons,thatīs fine,itīs not everoneīs cup of tea.If you never wash your car,then dirt and grime may become an issue eventually,but the uni-ball rod ends are pretty tough - I see it everyday on aircraft where rod ends are used everywhere.

ricola
April 29th 2011, 10:52
I think the key is to use the rubber boots over the uni-balls with plenty of lube inside them for a street car..

Wally
April 29th 2011, 11:21
Thanks, Good points! I'll see how it goes with these and let you know ;)
Have a great WE!

Humble
April 29th 2011, 13:22
Actually, koni does make uniball equipped shocks but they are double adjustable racing spec :) The 2800 series are the cheap end and pretty damn nice but I don't know what they cost off hand (probably not cheap).

Hopefully the m030 shocks work well for you, when I tried them on my lightened car I found they were too stiff.

dub_crazee
May 8th 2011, 13:04
Hey Wally,

finally got to see your car up close in the flesh - love it. only saw your first run though! crackin car - it's been an inspiration for me building my own! Shame i didnt get to meet you

Deano

Fast65
May 8th 2011, 18:20
Wally ran a 11.48 his PB fastest car in DKR at the moment

cheers andy

typ4boy
May 9th 2011, 06:14
Wally ran a 11.48 his PB fastest car in DKR at the moment

cheers andy

11.48 from a turbo typ4 with 911 cooling a true myth buster.

Wally
May 9th 2011, 11:37
Hey Wally,

finally got to see your car up close in the flesh - love it. only saw your first run though! crackin car - it's been an inspiration for me building my own! Shame i didnt get to meet you

Deano
Hi Deano,
Yes, pity indeed. There was plenty of time on sunday, but a very large compound and a lot of people there as well ;)

http://www.big-bang.co.uk/2011photos/bb11dj-0703.jpg

Tnx for the kudos! It was fun and thats what its all about.

70Turbobug
May 9th 2011, 13:28
11.48 in the fat chick and a long G50 gearbox!! Thatīs awesome! Gefeliciteerd Wally! (hope I spelled it right;)

dub_crazee
May 10th 2011, 14:29
Maybe at bugjam or Action if you are going?

Did you get any vids of your runs?

Wally
May 10th 2011, 15:09
Maybe at bugjam or Action if you are going?

Did you get any vids of your runs?

I may probably not go to either as the family needs some quality time now and then too...

I did video the one run alone in the car on saturday that should have been thé one, but the higher boost caused spark blow-out as far as I could tell from the log, so I rather not post it :o
Birdman did tape up his video camera in the car for our passenger run but it may take a while before he can put that online as he's not back in aussie land for a week or so iirc.

judgie
May 11th 2011, 03:38
was good to catch up with you over the weekend and well done on the PB.

Wally
May 11th 2011, 04:32
Thanks m8. Good to talk to you again, even if it was only briefly.

Wally
May 15th 2011, 08:13
This is what happens if you run into the 'hard-cut' rev limiter:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Hardcutiskut003.jpg~original

Some of you may recognise this phenomenon from my previous encounter with the hard-cut; yes, this already happenend before...:o
This time I wanted to test flat-foot-shifting, so soft-cut was lowered a lot and hard-cut set at the same rpm distance from the soft-cut, about 600 rpm.

This will never happen again now, as I will now set the hard-cut 2000 rpm or more away from the soft-cut. The cure is apperently worse then the problem it tries to prevent...

Sandeep
May 15th 2011, 08:59
Ouch.

I hope that rocker was the only component damaged, and nothing else was hurt.

Was this the same exhaust rocker (same valve) where the break happened previously ?

Sandeep

Wally
May 15th 2011, 09:44
Ouch.

I hope that rocker was the only component damaged, and nothing else was hurt.

Mee too, I very much think nothing else was hurt, but not verified yet.

Was this the same exhaust rocker (same valve) where the break happened previously ?

Can't remember, it is the same bank though, but that question suggests something that isn't there imo. The cause is violent rpm-cut, it could have happend at either cylinder imo.

TSAF
May 16th 2011, 03:40
Wally maybe the Pauter ones might be the solution.

Humble
May 16th 2011, 11:47
Damn, again? What kind of pushrods are you running and how long were you on the hardcut? I've spent a few seconds on the hard cut (500 rpm between soft @7500 and hard @8000) on longer straights so I'll have to watch that :eek:

Wally
May 16th 2011, 14:27
Damn, again? What kind of pushrods are you running and how long were you on the hardcut? I've spent a few seconds on the hard cut (500 rpm between soft @7500 and hard @8000) on longer straights so I'll have to watch that :eek:

Yeah, again indeed...
I am running Gene Berg pushrods, the good ones as the PR on the effected cylinder was still straight.
I was on the hard cut maybe only less then a second, so be aware that it isn't good for your engine's valve train.

Wally
May 16th 2011, 14:40
Wally maybe the Pauter ones might be the solution.
Maybe, but my cam probably is not really suited for a Pauter cam and the extra valve lift does probably not clear the piston.
Oh, and I haven't got a set anymore...so if anyone...? ;-)

judgie
May 17th 2011, 08:09
re the rockers watch this space as there might be some forged steel ones being produced in the not to distant future, stock ratio and with the 8mm adjuster screw. being done as we are running out of good used ones which are all at least 20 years old.
seems a odd place for them to be breaking but hard cuts do funny things to engines, not a big fan of them but know why there used.

spannermanager
May 20th 2011, 15:56
Hey Walter, hows it going, looks like backfire damage to me, i had unexplained valve events with my turbo wassers back in the '80s, a turbo backfire has enough energy to slam those turkeys wide open, the push rod then falls from the rocker socket and engages on the edge of it, or the follower wall, instant extra lift. a good case for more spring pressures with turbo, and lightweight valve train, maybe the stock rockers saved you more serious damage, stronger ones may be a backward step, i know what I'd rather replace, good luck with it all.:)

Humble
May 20th 2011, 16:36
Would anti-lag systems cause this same kind of problem?

70Turbobug
May 21st 2011, 08:48
Would anti-lag systems cause this same kind of problem?

Thatīs a good question - although I donīt think so,because anti lag uses extreme late timing up to 40° after OT,so backfire back into the cylinder shouldnīt occur.

If I have another set of rockers Wally,Iīll let you know asap.

Wally
May 22nd 2011, 12:26
Hey Walter, hows it going, looks like backfire damage to me,...

I think you are right m8. Funny thing is it seems te generate a back-fire on a fuel cut (which comes from the hard-cut rpm limiting action of the ecu).
As I already replaced blown up vacuum lines (pressure lines actually) on the manifolds AND had warpped butterflies, back-fire as a cause is right up that line of thought.
Now, how does fuel cut-off cause a back fire (on a turbo engine)??

@ Mark: thanks man, but I have already replaced the faulty rocker by another one and the engine started right up and ran smooth, so probably no bend valve(s) (again). GB pushrod is also still straight as an arrow!

70Turbobug
May 24th 2011, 00:36
Looks like you got lucky once again! Bent Butterflies, etc. sounds like a pretty hard backfire to me.I'm surprised that can happen with a modern ecu.Perhaps the fuel cut comes after the ignition cut? Or timing isn't retarded far enough.It would be interesting to know why it backfired since it's supposed to be a safety feature...
Good to hear that everything is up and running again!

spannermanager
May 25th 2011, 15:34
All the elements for a backfire are in place, all it takes is a nanoseconds worth of fuel vapour, its always in there, the ignition element (a heat source) is always in there,, the fuel cut may be leaning things off, it certainly kills off any inter cooling of the exhaust valves by overlap events, so up goes the temp, nanoseconds again is all it takes, then all you need is some air in the exhaust,,,,,, port flanges, c clamps, when you think they can rip blades backwards on a turbine wheel:eek::eek:.... i think im going to look at introducing very deep valve pockets on my new wasser, so its a 'safe' engine, if there is such a thing, the energy is huge and has to go somewhere, i recon there's enough to open valves to coil bind if the springs are not up to par, i run oil jets these days to cool the springs, imagine how hot they get just from movement/friction, say on a 'cold' test rig, also remote oiling for the springs with external hard lines and a spray bar on T1 is worth looking at, the T4 Walter runs has better top end oiling, I've yet to play with these:lmao:, my equip has a very good T4 guru on hand, retired now, but a very big name from super vee in the '70s, and on to the very top of motor sports engineering, he has just sorted my wasser oil and piston ring problems with a quick look and a phone call:). thanks ...... ........:lmao:

Bruce.
May 26th 2011, 06:09
Walter,

How wide is the hyteresis on the fuel cut? I'm guessing the fuel restarts above the soft cut?

If so, the fuel cuts at the limit (all injectors suddenly? or does it cut progressively cut 1,2,3 then all 4) but restarts the fuel flow before the ignition is back on (ie. above soft cut). I would think this setup would allow enough time for the temps to soar in the exhaust valve/port/primary then the fuel flow restarts without good spark (bang!).

I think a "stock" set up would cut the fuel flow but not restart it until the revs had fallen below the soft cut to ensure the sparks were functioning first.

If you want a flat shift setup (that hangs nicely at the limit) you might need another setup. Anyone tried DIY throttle by wire? :D

Bruce.
May 26th 2011, 06:14
Another opinion (lifted from a subie forum) that might have merit.....

"Like a lot of people I've never liked a fuel cut on aggressive turbo engines and I think the science backs me up there. From the video they found as much as a 1/3 of an injection worth of fuel just chillin' in a puddle in the intake runner. This puddle is kept liquid by the boost pressure and sheer amount of fuel. When the boost pressure drops (like when you lift the throttle) all of that fuel instantly evaporates in the low pressure air and is ingested by the engine giving natural deceleration enrichment (which is nice) but during a WOT rev limit hit where the fuel is cut I believe the fuel is also able to be evaporated into the dry air (which now is not saturated with fuel) and also ingested by the engine causing potentially lethal lean ignition events."


more detail here of the "Tau puddle"

http://www.ret-monitor.com/articles/852/wall-wetting-the-tau-factor/

70Turbobug
May 26th 2011, 08:15
Fuel vapor would be an explanation.The question then would be does the ECU cut fuel completely or just reduces fuel by say 95% or does it restart as Bruce mentioned? The engine stays running so maybe just the amount of pulses are reduced.Some OEM cars limit there rpm in such a way that the engine simply does not rev higher instead of the usual rev limiter chattering.Maybe a sort of trick to the MAP or MAF telling it that max airflow is reached?

Humble
May 26th 2011, 13:22
After double checking my rev-limiter it looks like mine is set to retard spark (soft limit 7750rpm) then cut spark (hard limit 8000rpm) it never touches fuel. I don't even cut fuel on overrun (engine braking) just to be safe and help cool the heads. I wonder if that could be my saving grace.

Both of these settings are terrible for mileage and emissions but you have to pick your poison here. Wally, does your ecu offer any setting like these?

I've seen the Tau wall wetting stuff mentioned before with the megasquirt setups. They've had x-Tau enrichment since MS2 came out though I've never played with it. It's worth considering for a daily driver or street car but I'd imagine it would be kind of fiddly while setting it up.

Wally
May 26th 2011, 16:09
As described by DTA in the manual:

Normal RPM Limit.
This limit introduces a cut on each cylinder in rotation which would be enough to constrain rpm rise in a driving situation. It has a fairly soft action and does not upset the car. Normally set to 250 rpm below the ultimate limit.

Ultimate RPM Limit.
The engine will not go through this limit no matter what the conditions i.e. off load and full throttle. It is, however, fairly brutal in operation and should be set slightly higher than the normal rpm limit above.

The last rocker breakage was absolutely the ultimate rpm limit described above, but earlier back-fires I had that broke boost reference lines and bend butterflies, was definately caused by the overboost function.
AFAIK, both the overboost and ultimate limit (hard cut) actions use fuel cut-off, but again, I am not exactly sure of that as it doesn't say anywhere for sure and I have no other evidence for fuel cut action and in what way it would do so. Ditto for the ignition cut 'map' (if there is one)...

spannermanager
May 27th 2011, 15:15
Hi Walter, was it the same cylinder/rocker as previously:cool:

Wally
May 27th 2011, 16:01
Hi Walter, was it the same cylinder/rocker as previously:cool:

No, same side though, but I think its unrelated. Previously both rockers failed simultaniously on cylinder 4, now it was the exhaust rocker on no. 3

Overboost is now set on 2.3 bar (3.3 PR) and ultimate rpm at 8K (soft cut at 7200), so I hope to never reach either :D

judgie
May 28th 2011, 05:19
I did some work on a buggy fitted with a 2.2 t1 engine thats was turbo efi. the overboost cut was brutle and split a barrel. took a while to sort that one out as the boost ignition retard was also all over the place.
the main problem with the boost cut was down to the poor cb header design with the waste gats off one header runner and the big turbo making so much boost the waste gate could not control the boost limit, even with the waste gate open the turbo could still produce more boost than the ecu was set to cut.
with your new settings i would think your'll run out of road before the cuts come in ::D:

Wally
June 8th 2011, 17:13
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/MagnecorKW85008.jpg~original

Finally got hold of some Magnecor KW85 bare cables so I could make my own (longer 90 degree turns into shroud) cable ends onto them (see pic).
Just installed them into the car and I am finally totally happy about my spark plug cables after all these years... :)
Coming monday Time Attack! Wish me luck...

70Turbobug
June 9th 2011, 09:57
Go get 'em Wally!!

effvee
June 9th 2011, 12:03
Go get 'em Wally!!

Yeah Walter, vigorously shake up your can of whip-ass:D and apply it to everyone that you comes up against; good luck sir.

Sandeep
June 9th 2011, 13:42
Yeah Walter, vigorously shake up your can of whip-ass:D and apply it to everyone that you comes up against; good luck sir.

+1

:cup1: Good luck !

Sandeep

Wally
June 13th 2011, 17:18
Well, all went well, dry track, did not crash, no mechanical failures and surprised a few fellow racers with the cars' acceleration on the straight bits :D
I think I improved my time on that track, but need definate time table yet.

Made only a few pics myself, but maybe a few will follow later from others.
Did finally thought about bringing the camera in the car :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEM6UJKhMYI

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/TimeAttack2011002.jpg~original

unlike me, the car is a babe magnet :D
(well, I did had to ask the ladies kindly tbh :lmao:)
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/TimeAttack2011006.jpg~original

http://www.rpmvision.nl/pictures/features/235/large/7d5e1d41c8eb2f832bb1003f328af1f0.jpg

My car is behind her somewhere, really! One of the 'Heidi's' :-))
http://www.rpmvision.nl/pictures/features/235/large/b8609553f9f895df97450b10c3dd5f15.jpg

NO_H2O
June 13th 2011, 23:29
unlike me, the car is a babe magnet :D
(well, I did had to ask the ladies kindly tbh :lmao:)
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/TimeAttack2011006.jpg~original

Quick! Someone get the girl on the left a sandwich. Hurry!
Thanks for the video Wally. Always a pleasure watching them.

TSAF
June 14th 2011, 03:10
I love Heidi.

dub_crazee
June 14th 2011, 15:20
Heidi FTW!!!!! :D:D

Wally
June 14th 2011, 15:25
There were even more than one of them!

http://www.automaxx.nl/userfiles/imagecache/ca4ef5efd503e32edd4bf0fa23f6cd0a.jpg

and some boring car pics afterwards :lmao:

http://www.automaxx.nl/userfiles/imagecache/38e30543a21c8405b2e69783cb7571d8.jpg

http://www.automaxx.nl/userfiles/imagecache/c118964fa1eace824c0c5f21d0706fe8.jpg

Rest of the pics here:
http://www.automaxx.nl/nl/photos/show/1102/155/?page=1
Some great pics there, but the best one on-track pic I could not capture and post...maybe some of you compu wizzards can?

Wally
June 14th 2011, 16:30
Linking works:

http://www.automaxx.nl/userfiles/imagecache/80478fead214eb8e2c93755a67da100f.jpg

Wally
June 14th 2011, 16:31
Linking works:

http://www.automaxx.nl/userfiles/imagecache/78ed17fc62db66b42857a1aad7950d4c.jpg

http://www.rpmvision.nl/pictures/features/238/large/1e0f2cf9fc8c20dbccc21aba05cf435e.jpg

70Turbobug
June 15th 2011, 06:40
Sounds like you had a blast and great vid also - it's always awesome hearing that monster roar! So where are the "good pics" of the Heidis?:lmao:
Oh well I guess I'll have to settle with pics from under your car's apron instead :lmao:

Bogara_ZO
June 15th 2011, 12:10
Hi Walter,

Nice pictures as always!

So after a day like that what do you say, KONI or Bilstein is your vote? And maybe I've missed something but are you happy with your coil over front setup?

Cheers

Wally
June 15th 2011, 14:13
Hi Walter,

Nice pictures as always!

So after a day like that what do you say, KONI or Bilstein is your vote?

20 years old Bilsteins or new adjustable Koni yellows? Its not about make, but model and adjustable or not. I like the new shocks as they seem to work well, but thats about it. The new alignment job with a little more camber in the rear may also have played part in a good road holding in the rear. I dunno what did what exactly tbh.
I do know I know have a bit more understeer? That's where your second q comes in :)

And maybe I've missed something but are you happy with your coil over front setup?

Cheers
Yes, very! The height adjustability and shock adjustment are great to have I think.
Its a pity there isn't a bigger front roll bar, as I would like a little less roll. So I'll probably have to get a bit stiffer front springs (again :rolleyes:). Car is still comfortable enough I feel, so I think its a logical option to try first.

Hope that answered your q? As you see, these things are car-specific and probably rather personal too, so there's really no "always-good-set-up" to be had...

Humble
June 15th 2011, 16:01
It looks good on track we just need to get you a better in car camera :) Were you going all out or still taking it easy? Looks like you could have taken those corners a bit faster ;) That porsche driver must have been annoyed at best or red-misting at worst, getting passed by a beetle!

For the shocks I vote Koni or QA1 double adjustable rear and a koni double adjustable front. I'm still dialing mine in and I have an autox this weekend to test, but I've been very happy with them so far.

Wally
June 15th 2011, 16:57
It looks good on track we just need to get you a better in car camera :) Were you going all out or still taking it easy? Looks like you could have taken those corners a bit faster ;) That porsche driver must have been annoyed at best or red-misting at worst, getting passed by a beetle!



I agree Humble, camera is having difficulty with the contrast (and I forgot to press the compensate button for that..)
_I_ was going all out for my doing, but was a bit carefull (and not skillfull enough) in the corners and not at max boost (tad over 1 bar) and obviously the car can do much more then I dare or am capable of. The 911RS I overtook so easily did run 2 seconds faster on his fastest round and unlike me, he was pretty consistent. That shows to me the car can run much better lap times, its just the driver that lacks at this point...:o

aartjan
June 15th 2011, 17:27
Its a pity there isn't a bigger front roll bar, as I would like a little less roll. So I'll probably have to get a bit stiffer front springs (again :rolleyes:). Car is still comfortable enough I feel, so I think its a logical option to try first.
What about moving the inner pivot of the suspension arms upwards?

However, more front rollstiffness will generally tend to more understeer.

Wally
June 15th 2011, 17:44
What about moving the inner pivot of the suspension arms upwards?

Its already on the upper one of the two holes on that bracket...and there's no room to go even higher. Trust me, I've looked, but good thinking and tnx for thinking with me :)

However, more front rollstiffness will generally tend to more understeer.
Hmm, I had forgotten about that effect...damn!
The balance is actually pretty good. Its just that the front tires seemed to have suffered more then the rears and on one very tight corner, I wished for a little less understeer, but maybe I should have turned in later there..

Bruce.
June 15th 2011, 18:54
It's tough to tell from the photos but the inside front tyre looks a little light in the bends. In other words, the inside front is not planted and the front grip is mostly relying on the outside tyre.

It looks like the outer rear has compressed a bit far leading to the inner front lifting (the diagonal effect). I'd suggest a slightly tighter rear antiroll bar or perhaps ideally, slightly stiffer rear springs. A looser front bar might also work but more lean has other issues.

You could also try increasing the front rebound and see if that helps.

judgie
June 16th 2011, 03:52
what camber are you running at the front? i found the best set up for mine was to have the rear quite soft and the front fairly stiff.
run 130lb front springs and a h/d bug pack anti roll bar, rear bars are 944 and the 944 anti roll bar. front camber is -3* and rear is -2.5* front toe is set to 0 and the rear has 1.5 toe out.
it will pick the inside front wheel up but at least thats getting as much wieght as poss on the powered wheels which helps combat the wheel spin.
i found that high speed corners were improved when i fitted the front spoiler and splitter and improved again when i fitted the dive planes.
guessing this will all change now i have fitted the lsd.

Wally
June 16th 2011, 04:48
.
run 130lb front springs and a h/d bug pack anti roll bar, rear bars are 944 and the 944 anti roll bar.

My set-up and car are probably not really comparable..:
Your rear 944 torsion bars are 23mm. I run 25,5mm (M030) bars.
Your rear 944 anti roll bar is what? 17mm?. I run a 24mm Whiteline anti roll bar in the rear...

My front springs are already 50 lbs up over what Lee send them with. IIRC I now have 350lbs springs...

That why I said each car is so different. Mine is probably so much heavier and therefore needs more of everything I guess.

Bruce.
June 16th 2011, 06:25
Wow... you are already running a pretty tight rear.

How about replacing the side and rear windows with Perspex to reduce the high up weight? Or would that cause legal problems with road use in NL?

Like the the "I'll be baack" style glasses :)

http://www.automaxx.nl/userfiles/imagecache/a771a14b8b5d8047684518e3dc62d576.jpg

typ4boy
June 16th 2011, 07:46
My set-up and car are probably not really comparable..:
Your rear 944 torsion bars are 23mm. I run 25,5mm (M030) bars.
Your rear 944 anti roll bar is what? 17mm?. I run a 24mm Whiteline anti roll bar in the rear...

My front springs are already 50 lbs up over what Lee send them with. IIRC I now have 350lbs springs...

That why I said each car is so different. Mine is probably so much heavier and therefore needs more of everything I guess.

Also remember this front set up is our fast road not our full on track set up.:D

Wally
June 16th 2011, 14:08
You found me Bruce :p

and I already have lexan sides (door window, rear sides) and rear window..

Also remember this front set up is our fast road not our full on track set up.:D

Yeah, suspected as much, but really I probably would like this set-up better anyways. It IS after all really not a 'full on track car' either. I drove 2 hours one way to the track, so _some_ suspension movement is desireble still just to arrive fit and be able to 'race' in good spirit ;)

Wally
June 16th 2011, 14:40
and the very next day/evening I was on 'drive-my-friends-to-be-graduated-son-to-pram duty' :

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/100_0544.jpg~original

running at idle for over half an hour in queue...he was happy though :)
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/100_0545.jpg~original

Sandeep
June 16th 2011, 15:40
Looks like you had a fantastic time Walter, thanks for posting the results.

In your opinion, for the type of driving you have done on the long tracks, would you consider adding a limited slip diff ? Or would this potential addition not be worth it ? How about for the drag strip ?

Thanks.

Sandeep

Wally
June 16th 2011, 17:18
In your opinion, for the type of driving you have done on the long tracks, would you consider adding a limited slip diff ? Or would this potential addition not be worth it ? How about for the drag strip ?

Thanks.

Sandeep
Good question! short answer: YES!
For last monday I didn't really missed it, but then again, I can hardly tell what its like with one.
I have missed it before on the circuit when I mistook inner wheel spinning for clutch slip (the latter it wasnt). Now with more spring and less overhang, I can get away without it or so it seems, but still wished I had it onboard.

For drag racing I really miss a Diff, any diff I would say as I almost always get one-wheel burn-outs which really sucks and is almost dangerous because of the different traction left-right it results in.

If I get a financial break, an LSD from Paul Guard is the first thing on my list 4sure!

wrenchnride247
June 16th 2011, 20:49
If I get a financial break, an LSD from Paul Guard is the first thing on my list 4sure!

Let me post a pick of mine (again :D) for you to look at Wally...

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/wrenchnride247/IMGP1912.jpg~original

judgie
June 17th 2011, 04:00
very true walter , my car is set up for what are pretty rough [for tarmac] and tight hill climbs sprints. no good having very stiff suspension as the bumps and camber changes mean you need quite a lot of suspension travel.
spend most of the time in 2nd or 3rd on the hills only a few tracks that i use 4th. just about ever track has a 1st gear hairpin so good mechnical grip is needed hence the softish suspension.
hopefully the lsd i have now fitted will improve it even more out of the slow corners but i can see some changes being needed to set up and driving style now its fitted.

Wally
June 17th 2011, 13:45
Let me post a pick of mine (again :D) for you to look at Wally...

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/wrenchnride247/IMGP1912.jpg~original

Thats what I'am talking about! Did you get the 25%/75% or the 40/60?
Good choice mate :cool:

Wally
June 19th 2011, 08:07
Someone did a compilation of the Time Attack event:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU8FT7E3JCg

and here at appr. 0:45 into the vid a drive-by onto the straight in the warm-up session:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUMLVx5f9tU

wrenchnride247
June 19th 2011, 22:55
Thats what I'am talking about! Did you get the 25%/75% or the 40/60?
Good choice mate :cool:

The lesser of the two. They didn't advise too much lock up on the street.

Wally
June 20th 2011, 02:09
The lesser of the two. They didn't advise too much lock up on the street.

That would be the hardest part for me to decide upon tbh as I do some track time as well plus I absolutely hate the one-wheel burn-outs at drag events (which are dangerous too).

wrenchnride247
June 20th 2011, 21:50
They would do 60% but said it would be too unpredictable on wet ground. And it would wear tires fast. They HIGHLY discuraged 60% for the street. If I can ever get my project going again I could tell you how fun the GT diff is. :rolleyes::lmao:

Wally
June 21st 2011, 02:25
They would do 60% but said it would be too unpredictable on wet ground. And it would wear tires fast. They HIGHLY discuraged 60% for the street.

Wasn't talking about 60%, but 40%
See ^^ ;)

NO_H2O
June 21st 2011, 08:55
Always good to watch videos from Wally. Thanks.

Wally
July 6th 2011, 16:40
One of 'those' one wheel burn-outs, this time at Budel june 2011. Won't do this anymore till I got a diff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FVs5O3uJoQ

70Turbobug
July 7th 2011, 10:02
Nice burnout Wally....you made enough smoke so you canīt really tell it was only one wheel :D

TSAF
July 7th 2011, 10:47
Wally POWER

NO_H2O
July 7th 2011, 23:50
Nice work Wally.

TSAF
July 8th 2011, 03:07
Wally burn rubber not your soul

Luismj
July 8th 2011, 19:57
:eek: wow Very nice burnout!

Bruce.
July 9th 2011, 04:33
I hope that was a cheap tyre Wally :)


Back to your circuit handling.... Have you tried measuring your tyre temps after some hot laps? Infrared temp guns are really cheap now and by checking the temps at the inside, outside & middle of the tread you can figure out how the tyre is hitting the road in the bends. If you can find a handling pad to run constant circles until the front tyres start to go off (overheat) you could learn a lot.

Sandeep
July 9th 2011, 09:04
Great choice of music in the video. "don't mess with my ducktail"
Very true ! :D

Sandeep

Wally
July 22nd 2011, 13:40
After mentioning I wanted to upgrade the diff, a belgian friend pointed me to a used G50 LSD, which turned out to be a 996 GT2/3 Motorsport unit with asymmetrical 40%/65% ramps.
To say I was pleased afterwards is an understatement :D
There is a risk these are well worn and as this one was stored for 5 years. As if I needed any extra persuation to open up a new part :lmao:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Cranksanddiff024.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Cranksanddiff029.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Cranksanddiff030.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/996LSDdemontage001.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/996LSDdemontage003.jpg

Here you can see the asymmetrical part of the diff in the different ramps where the spider gear is:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/996LSDdemontage004.jpg

These are the friction disks. They are 2.7mm thick and that seems to be a typical value from reading some 911 boards on the matter:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/996LSDdemontage005.jpg

When I took the first cover off, there was quite some 'spring' pressure from the concave ('belleville') washer that sits at both ends, so I think there is some useage left in this unit.
Not sure if I can just put the washers at both ends over and install this as is. Some say you can as this is an original unit and they have all the same measurements, others say you shouldn't.

evilC
July 22nd 2011, 16:01
It says its made in UK. Do you know who by? maybe they can shed some light on the state of it?

Clive

Wally
July 23rd 2011, 02:51
It says its made in UK. Do you know who by? maybe they can shed some light on the state of it?

Clive

Apparently, all original Porsche diffs are inscripted 'made in the uk', but I really don't know by who.

70Turbobug
July 23rd 2011, 06:34
Looks like youīve made a great deal - congrats Wally! Looking at the pics it seems to have very little wear.

spannermanager
July 23rd 2011, 06:47
It looks a minter to me, no wear on the fixed plates at all, at a guess id say xtrac made it, they subcontract for most trans manufacturers, i watched as my ZF was rebuilt and tested with a torque wrench to the slip point. mine was 25/60. a good find. getting it in there is best.:)

Bruce.
July 23rd 2011, 14:02
A comment online by paul at Guard suggests the oem is GKN.

However they are often swapped out for motorsport

wrenchnride247
July 23rd 2011, 21:47
Nice find Wally! Can't wait to hear about the handling.

typ4boy
July 24th 2011, 09:14
A comment online by paul at Guard suggests the oem is GKN.

However they are often swapped out for motorsport

Correct i have a couple of lsd,s from early gt3,s also made by gkn, all the best stuff comes from the u.k dont you no that ????:lmao::lmao:;)

Wally
July 24th 2011, 10:17
Correct i have a couple of lsd,s from early gt3,s also made by gkn, all the best stuff comes from the u.k dont you no that ????:lmao::lmao:;)

To prove Lee's point even more (I hate it when he's right again :lmao:): GKN is a german company that only supplied the friction plates AFAIK. Its only those plates that are '****' as Guard mentioned sometimes, the LSD housing, spider gears and all are whats 'made in the uk'...(afaik) ;)

NO_H2O
July 24th 2011, 15:21
Nice looking diff. Stack it up and give it a shot.

TSAF
July 25th 2011, 10:45
Nice looking diff. Stack it up and give it a shot.

Yeah that's right. Stack it up and go to a track for "play":driving:.

onixbonilla
July 27th 2011, 20:08
Hi Wally. I know there are a lot of great work and stuff on your car but I wanted to tell you that you manage to build the only decklid wing that looks the part on a Beetle! I won't hesitate to use one of those Ducktails on my 1303!!!:D

70Turbobug
July 28th 2011, 05:21
I agree to that! I think that the color makes a big difference.In white it isnīt as noticeable.In red or something similar it would probably stick out a lot more.However the ducktail gave Wallyīs car its character I think. And you canīt miss Wally on the track....itīs the one with the ass in the air :D

Wally
July 28th 2011, 06:13
I wanted to tell you that you manage to build the only decklid wing that looks the part on a Beetle!

Thanks man. Much appreciated!
And to think it started of with a lot of scepsis while all it was is 'function over form' in the first place ;)
Not sure what the track driving results in (corner speeds), but I may extent the ducktail thing (not literally though) and add a proper downforce giving wing, much like porsche does with the 997 GT3/GT2RS series...

Bogara_ZO
August 10th 2011, 04:05
Also added some sill and chassis strength:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0022.jpg~original



Hi Wally, have you done any other "invisible" modification to strengthen your car? Thanks

Does anybody know why does the "finger down" icon appears above?? :-/

Wally
August 10th 2011, 04:41
Yes: the picture above where you took that from (1st page). It even says so in the text above it..!?
Still early in the morning I guess? LOL

Bogara_ZO
August 11th 2011, 15:11
Yes: the picture above where you took that from (1st page). It even says so in the text above it..!?
Still early in the morning I guess? LOL

:D I wondered if you've made anything else that can't be seen on the pictures of this topic ;)

Wally
August 11th 2011, 17:34
Ah, no, nothing else; I've shown it ALL ;-)
Well, now (10 years later) the car has a roll cage with welded A- and B-pillars to the cage and a tube from cage main hoop welded onto the trans fork, so that has probably stiffenend things up even more, allthough I hadn't any flex that I could feel before either.

Wally
August 12th 2011, 16:47
The (used) disks for the LSD I got from Paul Guard came in today. I am really, really happy with them. He definately has a great heart for the VW aircooled community.
These are already so much better then the 'brass junk' :D

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Gearsdisks002.jpg

70Turbobug
August 13th 2011, 05:37
Good deal Wally! Now you will need a H.A.N.S system to keep your neck from snapping in half with all that traction!

Wally
August 23rd 2011, 15:50
Found an old movie on my compu back when I didn;t know how to post on youtube...
It was the first time out with the turbo'd old fully original 2 ltr 914 engine. I drove straight through the track testing it out :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kRvFclkUZc

70Turbobug
August 24th 2011, 03:35
Very cool! Hard to believe that was already 3 years ago! Time flies...

It was the first time out with the turbo'd old fully original 2 ltr 914 engine. I drove straight through the track testing it out

That was probably that huge grin blocking your vision :D

Wally
August 24th 2011, 03:59
LOL Meant straight TO the track..(oeps ;-)

Coming sunday I race at that same track in a new event called 'Superlap'. Its very much like a TimeAttack kinda thing.
Installed more aggressive rear brake pads, but they are not bedded in at all yet...hope they will bed-in enough during warm up lap driving...

TSAF
August 24th 2011, 04:25
Keep us updated Wally, and take as many photos as possible.

Wally
August 24th 2011, 04:45
Sure, there will probably be a lot of professional photographers along the track, so don't worry ;-)
http://www.fast-car-festival.nl/

70Turbobug
August 24th 2011, 08:54
Good Luck and have fun!!

Wally
August 30th 2011, 06:02
Fun was had, despite a wet track part of the sessions. I'll try to gather some pics here over the next few days.
Engine ran flawlessly all day, again; its getting almost boringly reliable...
Track times were not very great, but at least I could drive home again with my son how was with me for the day :-) I did ran a PB wrt end speed on the straight (205,8 km/h), which was very cool. New rear brake pads were an improvement I think.

http://www.leonweggelaar.nl/fotografie/d/59649-5/IMG_8173.jpg

http://www.leonweggelaar.nl/fotografie/d/59973-5/IMG_8553.jpg

http://www.leonweggelaar.nl/fotografie/d/60003-5/IMG_8568.jpg

dub_crazee
August 30th 2011, 06:28
another sucessful day - you must be very pleased with the longevity of the motor so far with only minor issues :)

al_kaholik
August 30th 2011, 07:12
:) Can I ask about the two different exhausts?... One street one track?

dub_crazee
August 30th 2011, 07:17
wasnt one for waste gate??

Xellex
August 30th 2011, 07:34
how old is your son Wally? Is he into beetles as well, or just enjoying a good father/son say?

70Turbobug
August 30th 2011, 09:59
Great pics Wally! Thatīs only good that your car is so reliable,nothing boring about it! seeing the performance your motor is pumping out with that sort of reliability is a benchmark for those of us who are still building their motor.Of course each motor is different and finding the right tune,but still it proves that the type 4 engine components are extremely strong.

NO_H2O
August 30th 2011, 11:08
Great pix. Sounds like it was a great day at the track.

Wally
August 30th 2011, 13:37
:) Can I ask about the two different exhausts?... One street one track?

Both operational at all times: Small left one is from the external wastegate, right one is the 3,5" downpipe ;)

Yes, it still runs very well, but I really need to put some more effort into the suspension now (and maybe my driving too) as my corner speed is just too low wrt the 'competition' ;-)

My son is 14 years old now but already as tall as his mother and getting close to me already. Its amazing how fast the kids grow in this age.
He is very much into cars and almost knows more about certain marques then I do! He loves muscle cars (I'am sure you like that Mark, lol) but can very much appreciate the bug too and loves to come with me. We saw a Koenigsegg, an original GT40 and other exotic cars, which he really enjoyed and took pics from. He got a ride (I asked nicely) at the event in a '69 Camaro on a small drift course and couldn't stop smiling the rest of the day.
Kids, you can only teach them so much I guess... LOL!

He also held his camera on video mode at the roof of the pit building, but quality is...hmmm not the best. I'll try uploading the best one tonite.

Some of the other cars in my group (division Starter) on the track:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/FastCarfestival2011.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/file.jpg~original

TSAF
August 30th 2011, 14:02
Wally the car sounds great. I am watching a couple of your youtube videos.

Wally
August 30th 2011, 14:37
Cheers mate!

The paddock:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/Superlap28aug2011Zandvoort005.jpg~original

and the odd-ball car between them :lmao:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/Superlap28aug2011Zandvoort003.jpg~original

Steve C
August 30th 2011, 18:42
Hi Wally

So how did you find the LSD?

Steve

Wally
August 31st 2011, 03:37
Found it still lying on the workbench...:rolleyes:
Nah, haven't been able to find the time to put it in and frankly, I am still a little (lot) worried about changing diffs for the first time.
There is a last round of TimeAttack on the 25th september, but a dyno day on the 10th of september, so I need to try squeeze it in between 10 and 25 sept...
I did encounter some inside wheel spin at one point, but this large turbo spins a bit later, so I have less one-sided wheel spins out of the corner then before.
I don't drag race anymore before the diff is in OTOH as my slicks are getting worn on one wheel only, noticeably!

Wally
August 31st 2011, 17:29
This is a vid from another participant on board during qualifying. Its from the warm-up lap onwards and he runs up to me after one lap while we were all still warming up our engines and tires and eventually passes me (he ran much faster lap times anyways). Very cool to see your own car from another view point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk0i0YJBr7c

Wally
September 1st 2011, 09:22
Found another one:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-YPGyGK1YYQo/Tl1MHRgkcbI/AAAAAAAAdIU/TCkd7x5PcIM/s1024/Fast-Car%252520Festival%252520079.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/-tpX05xVzOjo/Tl1OHDbxHmI/AAAAAAAAdR8/pct0188yiRk/s1024/Fast-Car%252520Festival%252520233.jpg

70Turbobug
September 2nd 2011, 06:49
He is very much into cars and almost knows more about certain marques then I do! He loves muscle cars (I'am sure you like that Mark, lol) but can very much appreciate the bug too and loves to come with me. We saw a Koenigsegg, an original GT40 and other exotic cars, which he really enjoyed and took pics from. He got a ride (I asked nicely) at the event in a '69 Camaro on a small drift course and couldn't stop smiling the rest of the day.
Kids, you can only teach them so much I guess... LOL!

What can I say? Youīve got a cool kid! ;) Sounds like you two had a great day together and thatīs priceless.He will soon learn the advantages of power to weight ratio:D It must have been very cool seeing all those exotics and also being able to flog the car on track.Go home and have a steak and a beer and call it a perfect day! Very cool and thanks for sharing!

Bruce.
September 7th 2011, 05:35
Wally has made an appearance on the Speedhunters website!!!

Well done! :cool:

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011/09/06/event-gt-gt-fast-car-festival.aspx

Comments can be added at the bottom so Wally, you can post some specs for the uneducated (bhp? :D )

Wally
September 7th 2011, 08:51
Cool find Bruce! Thanks!
I think we better let them guess at the rest ;-)

Wally
September 10th 2011, 12:36
High boost holds now (1,6 bar).
Dyno makes spool 500+ rpm later, but turbo is still too large anyways.
Still climbing too, but my nerves were only as good as 6800 rpm today at this boost :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RXNFC5o6Y

396 rear wheel Hp 8)
When calculated to CHP, that would be appr. 460 hp. It was relatively hot today though (about 28 Celcius, 80-85F).

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Goespowercurve001.jpg

Lower graph curves were for my reference to my 'normal' dyno I use (Superflow dyno, more high tech with controlled load) which was at wastegate boost (1.0 bar). Showed very high correlation to my normal dyno, which read 310 RWHP (this dynojet read 300 RWHP, but as said, it was a hot and humid day), so they were very close!

wrenchnride247
September 10th 2011, 21:37
WOW! Love the sound of that motor, and the reaction of the spectators! :lmao:

dub_crazee
September 11th 2011, 05:07
the reaction of the spectators i comical! nice work again wally - everytime you post there seems to be some progression with this motor!!!

Bruce.
September 11th 2011, 06:27
And that was without a proper airflow across the intercooler.

Nice work :)

70Turbobug
September 11th 2011, 08:21
Congrats Wally! 2.2 with 460HP,thatīs awesome!

Wally
September 11th 2011, 15:38
Tried to remove the diff, but after quite some work, the bl**dy tranny fork is still in the way, so no LSD this year :mad:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Diffdemontage.jpg~original

Will have to be done over winter time then when the engine gets out anyways to make room for the 1200T T1 project.

Humble
September 12th 2011, 12:50
Great dyno numbers but too bad about the lsd. Are you going to do a full engine overhaul this winter or just pull it to get the tranny out?

Wally
September 12th 2011, 13:05
Great dyno numbers but too bad about the lsd. Are you going to do a full engine overhaul this winter or just pull it to get the tranny out?

Yeah, I was pretty depressed last night, but I think I'll try to lift the engine and trans by unbolting large bits of 'accessories'. If its too complicated, it will have to wait till winter.
Engine will not be opened then as there seems no need for overhaul. No smoke, no noise, no compression loss, no valve adjustments, it all seems just fine still..

I will however replace it over winter anyways with a 1200 type 1 turbo EFI I'am building as a project :cool:

Wally
September 12th 2011, 17:02
Pulled my finger out of my.... and put some work into it and raised engine-tranny combo a bit.
That proved just enough to pull the diff out :)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/G50differuit001.jpg~original

Steve C
September 12th 2011, 18:25
Hi Wally

That doesn't look like much fun, I'm sure you will be pleased with the results.

I've just been offered a new Quaife for a G50 for about 1025 Euro or $1354 Au, I'm thinking that might get it.

Do you have any experience with Quaife as far a drivability is concerned?

Steve

Wally
September 13th 2011, 01:48
No personal experience with Quaiffe, but usually when somebody says quaiffe, they mean their Torque biassing diff or TBD.
That is a whole other type of diff then a limited slip diff. Not better or worse by type, but it react different. I hesitated long, but think I prefer a LSD for my application.
I am sure you know, but I thought mentioning it anyways.

spannermanager
September 13th 2011, 03:06
Less progression and no overrun locking with tor-sen types, they are either locked or they're not, plate types are more tunable, with different drive and overrun ramps available, but all at a price. Torsens good for drags.

Sandeep
September 13th 2011, 12:52
Fantastic #'s Wally !

Really looking forward to your updates with the LSD installed. Judging by the pics, it looks like you'll be installing this yourself.

I'm at the cross roads as well right now ... body about to be installed but no LSD in the G50 and a 915 still sitting on the shop floor :o

Sandeep

Wally
September 13th 2011, 13:07
I'm at the cross roads as well right now ... body about to be installed but no LSD in the G50 and a 915 still sitting on the shop floor :o

Sandeep
I had quite a few email exchanges with Paul Gears and finally got some of the GT disks in my hands. They are such a difference, just feeling what their surface is with your fingers, that I would not want to ever run a original ZF diff without them.
So, either full GT diff or original and change out the disks for GT ones would be my advise.
I hope the diff measures out so I don't have to do more complicated stuff to install it properly...

Sandeep
September 13th 2011, 13:18
I hear ya.

While that diff is out, do you happen to have the part # handy for the 100mm output flange ? :idunno: I'm at odds with the local Porsche dealer and don't want to order something I cannot return.

Thanks

Sandeep

ricola
September 13th 2011, 13:48
I'm very interested in how you get on with this as I have an LSD sitting on the shelf for my G50 too! Did you find any god reference material on rebuilding it and installing it with the correct tolerancing?
Rich

Wally
September 13th 2011, 14:08
I hear ya.

While that diff is out, do you happen to have the part # handy for the 100mm output flange ? :idunno: I'm at odds with the local Porsche dealer and don't want to order something I cannot return.

Thanks

Sandeep

Maybe even better, I think I still have an extra set I once bought for the 412 which I was thinking of converting to G50. Bought a complete G64 front diff for it ;)
Also looked at the subs, but they are a casting without any numbers on them.. At www.mittelmotor.de you can however chase down most all numbers for original porsche parts in their catalog and order them at the same time if you feel like it ;-)

Rich: not sure what there is to rebuild as only the original brass disks can and do wear, even if they seem original thickness. Learnt this from Paul.
See pics on former pages, its quite simple once you see the inside.

Wally
September 13th 2011, 15:34
Just removed the ring gear and bearings so both could be compared in detail.
All the important measurements that would impact ring-gear distance are extremely close (beyond my accuracy anyways), for all practicle purposes I would say they are the same. Lets hope I am correct...

The only thing I really need, is a set of new ring-gear bolts ($$ no doubt) as the flange of the LSD is 2mm thicker (to the direction that doesn't impact ring gear distance of course ;) ).

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/G50diffcomparo001.jpg~original

Sandeep
September 13th 2011, 16:27
Maybe even better, I think I still have an extra set I once bought for the 412 which I was thinking of converting to G50. Bought a complete G64 front diff for it ;)
Also looked at the subs, but they are a casting without any numbers on them.. At www.mittelmotor.de you can however chase down most all numbers for original porsche parts in their catalog and order them at the same time if you feel like it ;-)


Thanks for that. I used the www.autoatlanta.com website to confirm the part #, but the local dealer believes the swap will not work.

No issues though ... used G64 front diffs are going for ~$200 on EBay, going to try another local source first.

Good luck with the swap !

Sandeep

Wally
September 14th 2011, 02:38
No issues though ... used G64 front diffs are going for ~$200 on EBay, going to try another local source first.

Sandeep

Exactly! Shipping it overseas would not be cost effective for such a part.

I am still looking for the correct new (longer) bolts I need for the swap over of the ring gear. Its a M12 x1.25 bolt in 12.9 grade, but would be nice to have the part number. Mittelmotor don't list inner diff parts. I'll look at auto-atlanta in return ;)

Bruce.
September 14th 2011, 05:14
If I'm looking for Porsche part numbers I just go to the Porsche online PET rather than via a 3rd party.

http://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/porscheservice/originalparts/originalpartscatalogue/

I had an issue accessing the 996GT3 catalogue but the 996 catalogue list two possible options for the ring gear bolts (with LSD).

999 217 152 01 or 996 332 276 00 depending on which diff (can't quite read the full number in your photos).

The GT2 catalogue lists the 999 217 152 01 bolt for use with the 996 332 083 9B (40/65% GKN) diff. The bolts are M12 x 1.5 x 22,5

Hope that helps.

Bruce.
September 14th 2011, 05:22
oh..... and the front diff axle flanges from a 964 C4 are "964 332 209 01", if you need that number.

Interestingly, the gears inside that front diff (which I guess the subs splines attach to) have a 950 part number and are straight from a G50 box (plus 928 & 968)

Wally
September 14th 2011, 05:41
If I'm looking for Porsche part numbers I just go to the Porsche online PET rather than via a 3rd party.

http://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/porscheservice/originalparts/originalpartscatalogue/

I had an issue accessing the 996GT3 catalogue but the 996 catalogue list two possible options for the ring gear bolts (with LSD).

999 217 152 01 or 999 332 276 00 depending on which diff (can't quite read the full number in your photos).

The GT2 catalogue lists the 999 217 152 01 bolt for use with the 996 332 083 9B (40/65% GKN) diff. The bolts are M12 x 1.5 x 22,5

Hope that helps.

Thanks Bruce, that helps surely, but I looked into the catalogue also and the 999 217 152 number seems to be the partnumber of the regular open diff (although a pic of a lsd was used, the general title of that section is 'Differential') as opposed to the 'Limited Slip Differential' section, where the 996 332 276 00 number seems to come from...
You wrote 999 332 276 00 but I am sure you meant 996 as first 3 digits for this one.

I could open de 996GT3 as well as the 996GT2 and both list the same pic and part numbers for that 9B diff..

I do indeed have that GKN diff however, so I am a little confused now which one I need... Could you check if your assesment is still correct, pls?

Bruce.
September 14th 2011, 05:56
The 996GT3 catalogue is perhaps clearer (i got it to open at last).

http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/originalparts/en/E_GT3_KATALOG.pdf

Like the GT2, it lists the LSD (the only diff) as part number 996-332-083-9B. It is hard to read from your photo the last two digits but could this be your diff (or does it end "00" or "01").

The GT3 & GT2 use the 999-217-152-01 bolts (only option listed).

(also corrected the part number above for the other bolts, as you mentioned)

Wally
September 14th 2011, 08:42
Thanks Bruce, the diff number ends with 9B, so its spot on.
I'll order the 999.217.152 bolts then ;)

It will be fun to later couple a 1200 T1 engine to a 996GT2 equipped diff with a Gears Transmission friction plates upgrade :lmao:

Wally
September 14th 2011, 09:12
Bruce,
By any chance, do you also know the correct torque setting for these bolts? I did came across it once, but didn't save the info then...:-(

Steve C
September 14th 2011, 09:38
Hi

Does this help?

Steve

Bruce.
September 14th 2011, 10:52
Steve:
From what I can gather, that is the "street" LSD.
Wally's LSDiff is the motorsport version which is tighter than an inappropriate simile.


Wally:
For the torque settings, I think the safest plan would be to send another email to Guard. I'm sure he will spare 2 mins for a customer. Internet chatter suggests 50ftlbs+90degrees with locktite for a standard diff but I wouldn't trust that spec without confirmation from a reliable source such as Guard.

Wally
September 14th 2011, 12:38
which is tighter than an inappropriate simile.

:lmao:

Wally:
For the torque settings, I think the safest plan would be to send another email to Guard. I'm sure he will spare 2 mins for a customer. Internet chatter suggests 50ftlbs+90degrees with locktite for a standard diff but I wouldn't trust that spec without confirmation from a reliable source such as Guard.
Well, I am no customer really. Paul send me a few old used disks from his own old stock as a favour to try out in my bug. He has sold most of the company a few years ago, but carries still his name. I did already send Paul a message of course from my new email adress. Hope he receives it as he probably knows this value by heart. So cool he wants to help a bugger out!
Hope to be able to pick up the bolts tomorrow afternoon as they were in stock at the central porsche dealership over here.

Xellex
September 14th 2011, 15:00
Wally, sorry for changing the topic, but could you detail the modification you did to the oil filter pressure relief ball/spring setup? I was surfing the keversite.nl forums with google translate, but it's not that good :P
Thanks!

Wally
September 14th 2011, 15:26
Easy: drill 5.0mm hole in top above ball-spring, tap with M6 tap and install M6 bolt with lock nut. Install with loctite ;)

These are/were the original bolts: 22.0 mm shank length. I need 2mm more (i.e. 24.0-24.5mm).
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/G50kroonwielbouten001.jpg~original

I do hope the ordered bolts are the correct length, but how could they not be?

Steve C
September 14th 2011, 19:06
Steve:
From what I can gather, that is the "street" LSD.
Wally's LSDiff is the motorsport version which is tighter than an inappropriate simile

Hi Bruce

I thought that he was after the part number for the bolts.

Steve

Bruce.
September 15th 2011, 04:51
Hi Steve,

I looked in the same place as you, the 996 carrera catalogue but the optional LSD for the 996C is different from the "motorsport" LSD used in the GT3/GT2 and the bolts specified for each are different.

Hopefully, the bolts will fit with the G50 Crown gear. It is difficult to see how they wouldn't.

Steve C
September 15th 2011, 10:19
Hi

Its a shame that Porsche don't have a "Lack & normal tellie" section like VW where you could look up bolt and other part numbers by description.

Steve

Wally
September 15th 2011, 10:22
Picked up the correct bolts for exactly my differential and got a mail from Paul to use 120 lbs.ft and a drop of red Loctite.
There is a difference in length, but not exactly as much as the difference of the flanges.
Anyway, it will do fine I think.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/G50LSDbout002.jpg~original

Wally
September 15th 2011, 12:00
Just reassembled everything and very happy I got the spacers and bearings pressed on again without any trouble. Ring gear was extremely nice and tight fit on the much later dated diff housing. The machining on these parts is amazing!

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/G50LSD-open001.jpg~original

Wally
September 18th 2011, 16:29
After a lot of work pulling the engine forward far enough to get the thicker diff back in, I got the engine back in its place again. Filled tranny with new synthetic 75W90 Valvoline and reused the O-ring n the side cover (even though I still have a new one from the gasket set). If you turn one wheel, the other one turns in the same direction as it should with a LSD :D It turns nice and smooth by hand.
Got the engine running again and went for a test drive.

No extra noises, all seems just fine and dandy. Did a deliberate lighting of the tires in second gear (cold and damp road) and that felt different somehow, more aggressive in a way, but not out of control.
Car is still stupid fast and seemingly effortless at doing so.
At home, tranny is still bone dry as before.
All in all, this was relatively easy sailing, though I didn't know that up front..
Gotta love orginal parts ;)

scourtaud
September 19th 2011, 03:19
Hi,

Nice job but before you go any further, are you sure about the oil you put into the tranny?

Usually in a 911 with LSD (old ones), oil is something like 75w140 (not sure about the exact values but sure about the range). I can check if you need the exact values.

Seb

70Turbobug
September 19th 2011, 03:21
Well done Wally! It will make a world of difference Iīm sure!

Wally
September 19th 2011, 11:47
Nice job but before you go any further, are you sure about the oil you put into the tranny?

Usually in a 911 with LSD (old ones), oil is something like 75w140 (not sure about the exact values but sure about the range). I can check if you need the exact values.

Seb
Hi Sebastian,

Yes, very sure: besides the fact that this is not an old tranny 911 type with porsches' own syncro system (which indeed needs a different oil), its actually counterproductive to use thicker oil or specially formulated LSD oil:
The latter usual has friction modifiers, which reduce the effectiveness of the friction plates. In that sentence alone, you can see/read how weird this is...
Those 'special' lsd gear oils were made because they reduce noise of the friction plates (in slow corners or in the parking lot), which is very liked by the typical Porsche owner who wants a comfortable a relatively quiet car.
I just want performance ;)

Bruce.
September 19th 2011, 14:26
Good luck with the diff!

I wouldn't go too crazy with the burnouts though. Replacing the clutch pack with "cup spec" (not the crappy road clutches) costs over Ģ600 from Porsche.

Wally
September 19th 2011, 14:54
I wouldn't go too crazy with the burnouts though. Replacing the clutch pack with "cup spec" (not the crappy road clutches) costs over Ģ600 from Porsche.

If you hadn't noticed already Bruce, I now have a Guard Transmission clutch pack in there, that's supposed to be better then even the 'cup-spec' clutch disks :D
Both in performance as in duration ;)

Bruce.
September 20th 2011, 05:53
:D

Bet you can't wait to get it on the track :)

Wally
September 20th 2011, 06:19
You got that right! I also changed my front springs to 'very stiff'...: I thought I had changed to 350 lbs springs in the past, so I now ordered some +50 lbs ones (400). Turned out they were still 300 lbs... (very nice ride quality, but for track could do with a bit harder), so the difference is a 'bit' more then anticipated LOL.
Also re-installed my self-adapted 'wing' for extra downforce.
Indeed curieus what it will all do/mean on the track.

TSAF
September 22nd 2011, 02:58
You will see a big difference in your lap times. The car must be amazing now.

scourtaud
September 26th 2011, 03:10
Hi Sebastian,

Yes, very sure: besides the fact that this is not an old tranny 911 type with porsches' own syncro system (which indeed needs a different oil), its actually counterproductive to use thicker oil or specially formulated LSD oil:
The latter usual has friction modifiers, which reduce the effectiveness of the friction plates. In that sentence alone, you can see/read how weird this is...
Those 'special' lsd gear oils were made because they reduce noise of the friction plates (in slow corners or in the parking lot), which is very liked by the typical Porsche owner who wants a comfortable a relatively quiet car.
I just want performance ;)

Thanks for the intel, I'll pass it along to one of my friends who doesn't really care about noise (1983 RUF SC) and I'm glad I was wrong but I'd rather be wrong than hear about a broken lsd...

Have fun on the track...

Seb

Wally
September 26th 2011, 07:48
It was great weather last sunday, I'll update later some more. In short I gained a lot on my time and even got a prize!

http://www.rpmvision.nl/pictures/features/375/large/e548ad757ab44020a74bb7f3cc6fa62c.jpg

TSAF
September 26th 2011, 08:43
Post a couple of photos when possible. We love to see the best turbocharged type iv beetle in action.

Wally
September 26th 2011, 12:13
Sure will, but it usually takes a few days until all track photographers have published their pictures ;-)

Wally
September 26th 2011, 16:42
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/automaxx_super_sunday_2011Gerlach.jpg~original

judgie
September 27th 2011, 04:49
nice pic's. did you notice any differance with having the rear wing fitted?

70Turbobug
September 27th 2011, 04:50
Ooooooooooohhhhhh I like that one!

Wally
September 27th 2011, 05:51
nice pic's. did you notice any differance with having the rear wing fitted?

I knew someone was gonna ask me that ;)
Unfortunately, I have changed about 6 seperate things (LSD, stiffer front springs, different brake balance, bit more boost, removed 40lbs front seat and the wing) on the car before this final. I drove 2,5 seconds of my lap time compared to last month on the same track. It was also quit a bit warmer (more tire grip) and I may have driven a bit more agrressive, so you tell me what caused it by what percentage..?
From my (very) limited seat of the pants feeling, I'd say the higher boost, more grip from the warmer tarmac and my driving made the most difference.
The LSD did not give more understeer at all (to my surprise), but did make the car brake hard more stable. It didn't wiggle its tail anymore under hard braking, even though my top speed at the end of the straight was now 210 km/h (131 mph in 4th gear, approaching 7K rpm) and 5 km/h faster then last month.
There was a point where I (finally) felt the rear tires blocking and I immediately adjusted the Tilton brake bias adjuster (for the first time I ever needed it!) a few clicks. Also a few times on WOT accelerating out of a tight corner in second gear, the rear wanted to step out a little, but I think the LSD also made that exercise a little more controllable, if not for having prevented a spin alltogether.
So, not sure the wing did anything. But its my own basterdized wing, so it doesn't mean _a_ wing would not help. I think it does, but a little better design then just the flat sheet of alu that I used, might work better :-)

Even so, compared to other (modern) cars with much less hp, I am still relatively (very) slow!! I can only conclude I probably cannot drive and/or don't push it to the limits at all. I do want to get home and getting old(er), so that might have s/th to do with it too LOL

I did the laps on 20 psi of boost, so with about 425 chp on the track! and it all went well as I drove the car home on its own wheels afterwards.

All in all, I found it a very good ending of the season :)

70Turbobug
September 27th 2011, 09:43
I do want to get home and getting old(er), so that might have s/th to do with it too LOL


Yeah, no kidding Wally...do you get a seniorīs discount yet at the track :D My guess is while you are running at a for you comfortable speed,the "faster guys" are probably very close to or at their limit.Some use aggressiveness and self over estimation to make up for talent and end up throwing the car off the track.There is no shame in being sensible and responsible ;)

Wally
September 27th 2011, 09:56
My guess is while you are running at a for you comfortable speed,the "faster guys" are probably very close to or at their limit.Some use aggressiveness and self over estimation to make up for talent and end up throwing the car off the track.


Your not that far of with that assesment! There was indeed quit a lot of damage from cars going off last sunday... (knock on wood).
But its hard to explain everytime why I'am not much faster with so much hp onboard :o

TSAF
September 27th 2011, 11:14
Maybe with constant training at the track, your lap times will change. It seems that the cars potential have changed a lot with all these new adjustments. Give a bit of time and I believe that you will see a great improvement on your track records. Did you have a new set of slicks this weekend or you were running oldies?

evilC
September 27th 2011, 12:34
Maybe it's that your in a different space/time continuem? Personally, I go with Einstein that as you approach the speed of light you get longer. If you get longer it stands to reason that it will take lomnger to get round;):rolleyes:

Humble
September 27th 2011, 14:34
I'll take your bug for a spin after you and we could compare telemetry :) I just need to get over there... Ideally though, that's the best way to measure improvements accurately, to use a telemetry box and compare overlays with other drivers.

70Turbobug
September 28th 2011, 05:33
Thatīs alright Wally...donīt push it! Speed comes with confidence.Like TSAF said,youīve made a lot of changes and youīve invested a lot of time and money in that project.Itīs a hobby and itīs built to have fun.As long as youīre having fun and constantly improving,who cares what the other drivers are running.

TSAF
September 28th 2011, 05:35
Thatīs alright Wally...donīt push it! Speed comes with confidence.Like TSAF said,youīve made a lot of changes and youīve invested a lot of time and money in that project.Itīs a hobby and itīs built to have fun.As long as youīre having fun and constantly improving,who cares what the other drivers are running.

Well said :):):):)

Wally
September 28th 2011, 09:04
Thanks for the encouragement guys!

The rear wing is ugly from the sides, but I already knew I need to make nicer stands or buy something:
http://media.nu.nl/m/m1ezvi2a4c3s.jpg[/

http://www.rpmvision.nl/pictures/features/381/large/f5af0a7f83e1c590596f13defd77eded.jpg

TSAF
September 28th 2011, 11:40
Wally I will agree with you that the wing is extremely ugly. Have you ever thought to start your own turbocharged type iv engine shop? Well you should because after this reading this thread again I honestly believe that you have more experience on turbocharged type iv engines than anybody else. Seriously give a little thought to this idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You have built an extremely powerful engine and you have "test" it on "real" circumstances. By that I mean the tracks. You are not just words like most builders. Think about that and forget about the track times.

Wally
September 28th 2011, 15:26
Wally I will agree with you that the wing is extremely ugly. Have you ever thought to start your own turbocharged type iv engine shop? Well you should because after this reading this thread again I honestly believe that you have more experience on turbocharged type iv engines than anybody else. Seriously give a little thought to this idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You have built an extremely powerful engine and you have "test" it on "real" circumstances. By that I mean the tracks. You are not just words like most builders. Think about that and forget about the track times.
Thanks mate! I do know what works and what helps by now and I help in writing some articles for a (dutch) magazine and maybe a rebuild and/or tuning book might appear sometime from that same mag, but I will definitely not build engines for others. I really encourage others to build their own blocks as I think that is/should be part of the fun (hence the writing ;)).

And yeah, I need to make or buy something more fancy as a rear wing ;-)

Of course there were again a few people that asked if there was a subaru engine in there...I told one of them to come close so I could smack him! :lmao:

Beginning and at 2:07 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQWwG_bh7Ho

Sandeep
September 28th 2011, 16:04
:eek:

I've just lost all respect for Wally's accomplishments now ... is that a BBQ sitting just over your intercooler ? :screwy: :lmao:

Just Kidding ... you kick ass as usual, glad to see you finally got a prize :cup1:

Congrats.

Sandeep


Thanks for the encouragement guys!

The rear wing is ugly from the sides, but I already knew I need to make nicer stands or buy something:
http://media.nu.nl/m/m1ezvi2a4c3s.jpg[/

http://www.rpmvision.nl/pictures/features/381/large/f5af0a7f83e1c590596f13defd77eded.jpg

Steve C
September 28th 2011, 19:24
Hi Wally

Did the picnic table have any effect on the intercooler?

Steve

owdlvr
September 29th 2011, 00:42
The wing doesn't bother me. Form follows function, until optimum function is figured out...then yes, make it look good ;-)

-Dave

Wally
September 29th 2011, 03:04
Hi Wally

Did the picnic table ....

Steve

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, Iknow :lmao:

But no, it doesn't as I did deliberately positioned the wing so the gap was big enough that the air following the roof line flows uninterrupted towards the intercooler.
It IS functional in that respect. Any roof lips or other roof spoilers however WILL effect intercooler efficiency imo.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-a9ge3h_h2JU/ToIyLp2Ik3I/AAAAAAAAfDI/catweD5D6sY/s1024/Automaxx%252520Super%252520Sunday%2525202011%25252 0122.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/-WVqKSYCJLd0/ToIyR_DyRvI/AAAAAAAAfD0/FlXu5uMjLcE/s1024/Automaxx%252520Super%252520Sunday%2525202011%25252 0133.jpg

Wrt 'looks' of the rear wing: its also depending on the angle how you look at it I think:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-nFa9t9eOsD8/ToIy35j95JI/AAAAAAAAfHw/Cc-atI1N7Pc/s1024/Automaxx%252520Super%252520Sunday%2525202011%25252 0196.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/-YRpWO8qd42c/ToIy431qocI/AAAAAAAAfH4/2WESAxnpvFY/s1024/Automaxx%252520Super%252520Sunday%2525202011%25252 0198.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/-gklweqzDrDc/ToIzlJwgtKI/AAAAAAAAfMw/OUFW-Ou0oMw/s1024/Automaxx%252520Super%252520Sunday%2525202011%25252 0276.jpg

Braking at the end of the straight:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-0Ov0nTwwmIo/ToIzy1x7bQI/AAAAAAAAfOI/Qt046ksR4QM/s1024/Automaxx%252520Super%252520Sunday%2525202011%25252 0298.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/-KqzIdK0JJUQ/ToIz9bRClQI/AAAAAAAAfPQ/NIl0SjyjxJ0/s1024/Automaxx%252520Super%252520Sunday%2525202011%25252 0316.jpg

70Turbobug
September 29th 2011, 04:31
Of course there were again a few people that asked if there was a subaru engine in there...I told one of them to come close so I could smack him!

Yeah,stab ém with a chop stick :D Awesome pics Wally! Are these photographers scheduled at these events? Or do they just randomly take the pics and you download them from a website or sth? As professional as they are,I would guess that they are hired by the event organizer? Keep ém coming Wally! They keep me motivated!! A big thanks for that!

Bruce.
September 29th 2011, 05:01
Wrt 'looks' of the rear wing: its also depending on the angle how you look at it I think:


ha ha, nope doesn't look good from any angle. :D ;)
However the car still looks fantastic and more importantly, totally under control on the track.

You might want to consider a much wider wing, that extends to over the rear wheel arches and out from behind the main cabin. This would get it right into the air flow and increase the effect a fair amount.

70Turbobug
September 29th 2011, 05:38
Maybe you could build a diffusor that bolts up to the rear bumper mounts inside the fenderwell? Then you could do away completely with the spoiler and have full effectiveness of your IC.

Steve C
September 29th 2011, 06:01
Hi Wally

I wasn't saying it was ugly, I think it looks very good, your being too hard on yourself, a big change to cars looks can do that.

Steve

Wally
September 29th 2011, 07:02
Are these photographers scheduled at these events? Or do they just randomly take the pics and you download them from a website or sth? As professional as they are,I would guess that they are hired by the event organizer?

Its a pretty big event in our little country, so lots of photographers are interested, either hired by publishers or independant ones where you can buy your pics for a reasonable (debatable, I know) fee. I was offered to share a pit box with one of the publishing parties. But rest assured, they took plenty pics of all cars present ;) :
http://www.mbmedia.nl/picasa-album-1?view=album&album=5657138051741892225&page=8

I know Clive, don't worry ;)
Bruce: I really wouldn't want any bigger. I also think it makes the whole construction less stable if its wider then this. As Rob experienced, if the wing gives too much down force, the metal under the rear wing can give in (and probably gives more drag also), so too much wing is not wanted either I feel.

The center pod on the wing is already my own addition, which I found necessary (even when the wing was in its original low position, that was needed to make it stable) as well as the extra diagonal rod to the intercooler top.
As it is now, its very stable and I don't see it move or shake at all at any speed or surface conditions. Better stands and stronger material (steel plate instead of the alu now) should make it able to do without the extra horizontal/diagonal rod (I hope).
Maybe sometime next year ;)

Thanks for the nice comments guys!

NO_H2O
September 29th 2011, 08:51
Awesome stuff as always Wally. Lots of changes this time and much quicker lap times. That is why I always look forward to updates from Wally.

evilC
September 29th 2011, 09:32
:eek:

I've just lost all respect for Wally's accomplishments now ... is that a BBQ sitting just over your intercooler ? :screwy: :lmao:

Just Kidding ... you kick ass as usual, glad to see you finally got a prize :cup1:

Congrats.

Sandeep

Wrong Sandeep, its an eye level grill!......hot, hot, hot, hot.......

Clive

Wally
September 30th 2011, 13:08
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/SuperSundayGerlach.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/Tmolenaar-photography25.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/SuperSundayass.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/SuperSunday.jpg~original

As you can see here especially, I might need to adress the front suspension caster when it moves upward (ball joint extender):
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_0800.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_0799.jpg~original

The result was there anyways :D
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/SuperSundayChampagne.jpg~original

Sandeep
September 30th 2011, 14:49
Great Pics Walter !

Can you comment on the tires (tyres) that you are using ? Brand / Spec ? I am assuming that you daily drive with these tires too ?

Thanks

Sandeep

Wally
September 30th 2011, 15:58
Sandeep, I still run a set of now 8 year old Dunlop SP Super Sport -race in the rear and a relatively new set of Kumho Ecsta V700 in the front.
Both are what you americans/canadians:lmao: call 'R-rated' tires. We call them 'semi-slicks'. These have both a UTCQ rating of 60 for traction, which is rather low, hence relatively soft tires.
For comparison: Toyo's 888's have 100... Maybe 100 would be better as these 60 can get 'greasy' quite fast (ie after a few laps on a warm day).
The rears I run about 4 years already (I thought they would last just one season) and were 4 years old when I bough them new, so they were 'cheap'. Just saying don't be afraid of semi-slicks as they can last a longtime if you don't use then daily. Some R-rated tires are standard equipment on the track-day cars from Porsche like the GT2/3/RS's ;-)
I don't use the car as my daily though! I do drive the car to all events over the road, in which it accumulates quite a few miles anyways ;)

Sandeep
October 2nd 2011, 12:32
Thanks for the input Walter. It did not make sense to me to put street tires on a car that spends relatively little time on the street.

I was considering Falken Azenis rt 615 tires myself as I have a modern daily driver. It does look like the driving to the track does not effect the longevity of the tires.

Sandeep

owdlvr
October 2nd 2011, 12:36
Not to derail Wally's thread, but it really depends on alignment as well. My Audi in track trim was running -4 deg of camber, it would eat up a set of tires driving from Richmond Hill to Shannonville and back, assuming I spent the day on the track. I could get two days out of set by popping them off the rims and putting the inside edge to the outside.

A bug, though, is relatively light and easy on tires so I wouldn't expect it to be a problem.

-Dave

70Turbobug
October 3rd 2011, 04:52
4WD drive cars eat tires also.A guy I work with has an WRX STi and he runs Bridgestone Semi Slicks and gets about 10Tkm out of them,which is great.Dave made a good point about alignment though.If you have an aggressive camber or a heavy car itīs obvious that the tires will wear more quickly than a light car.Everyone has their own preference for which tire is best.Driving style,damper selection and engine performance also plays a role in which tire works the best.There are just so many factors that depend on each individual needs or preference that you canīt really say "this tire works best" and you have try which tire you think is best for you.Some put more emphasis on stability during braking because they prefer to brake later,generally they give up corner speed for it or those that brake less but therefore earlier use a little more corner speed and prefer traction during acceleration out of the corner.Itīs not a coincidence that tires are a huge issue in racing and decide each race.Most of us I would think need a comprimise since weīre not Sebastian Vettel and donīt have tire sponsors and require a tire that is also good on the street.If you have the luxury of beeing able to take a second set of rims+tires to the track with you,than itīs a different story.It would suck however,if you have really sticky semi slicks that are great for the track and then it rains or it rains on the way home,then youīre even slower than if you were to run a good street tire.

karol
October 3rd 2011, 09:39
I don't use the car as my daily though! I do drive the car to all events over the road, in which it accumulates quite a few miles anyways ;)

how many km did you put on your current turbo engine?
Amazing car - swiss knife of all beetles: street car, drag racer, circuit, autobahn criuser, all this with aircooled flatfour. And a good looker too.
:goodjob:

Cam
October 5th 2011, 17:13
Hi Walter,

Great to see the continued development of your car!
I'm sure the LSD has made a world of different, I bet you can't wait to get back to the 'ring and give it a try ;-)
Keep the updates coming mate.

Cheers,
Cam

vdubzack
October 11th 2011, 07:23
If you are not runnig a relay to the fuel pump to get dirrect battery voltage you can try to use a voltage stabilizer to maintain constant voltage regardless of input. Used this one before and worked great even with the generator. Headights dont flicker with voltage or engine speed change. Just bright all the time. Should make the electrical items last longer, as it also controlls spikes in system voltage.
http://www.jacobselectronics.com.au/

Wally
October 11th 2011, 09:20
If you are not runnig a relay to the fuel pump to get dirrect battery voltage you can try to use a voltage stabilizer to maintain constant voltage regardless of input. Used this one before and worked great even with the generator. Headights dont flicker with voltage or engine speed change. Just bright all the time. Should make the electrical items last longer, as it also controlls spikes in system voltage.
http://www.jacobselectronics.com.au/

Interesting!
Wasn't Jacobs electronics a US based company?

vdubzack
October 17th 2011, 06:43
Interesting!
Wasn't Jacobs electronics a US based company? Yes. And still is but was sold to the company that does Summit racing and the like.(I do believe) The Aussie jacobs is the only direct site.

Wally
October 23rd 2011, 15:58
Looked at my suspension geometry this weekend and as I remembered, the tca is almost parallel with the steering rod (good thing):

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/KPImeting1303006.jpg~original

Futhermore, for the camber to get more negative, the tca must become rectangular with the imaginary line through the top of the strut and the ball joint, right?
It seems I am still pretty good with the current angle, even when fully suspended inbound (this pic is taken with the wheel/tca-end supported, so in resting position):
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/KPImeting1303005.jpg~original

My idea to use a ball joint extender will probably give more bump-steer since tca and steering rod won't be parallel anymore and isnt needed from a camber point of view, so I think I don't want to do that after all.

Next action will be to see what my 'scrub radius' actually is:
http://motoiq.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Tech/The-Ultimate-Guide-To/i-GbwmPKz/0/X2/0507sccp05zsuspension-X2.jpg

Haven't done this part (ran out of time), but will do as well ;)