Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75

[Steve C]

Hi Wally

Do you have any issues with the tie rod touching the chassis rail / inner mudguard?

Steve

[Wally]

No, but... I have squared the spare wheel well (for easier battery placement and such) and the tie rod could hit the edge or so it seemed, so I made a recess for it.
The tie rod never hit anything fortunately and now with the stiffer springs even less chance.

[ricola]

Wally: I'm in the process of correcting poor scrub geometry. The high offset porsche wheels make the scrub radius massively negative. I was desperate to try and avoid wider wings but the compromises just weren't worth it. From memory my scrub offset measured about 38mm -ve. A quick test with the rear 944 wheel spacers have made the steering feel much nicer and more confidence inspiring, it isn't to far off stock now I believe. Most RWD cars have +ve scrub but some late (including 2 bolt strut supers) are designed with -ve.
Rich

[Wally]

I hear you Rich; I run the 21mm spacers up front as well, but more because I couldn't fit the high ET wheels; this was before I ran the slimmer AVO struts. Now the spacers help to have full steering without hitting the inner fenders...

My theory is that the 944 spindles are bad for scrub radius. I think their tie rod ends are located further outwards then the originel VW 2-bolt spindles, which curve more towards the inner side of the car? Not sure though. Whats your take on my theory?

[ricola]

Sounds like you should just measure yours, I did it by jacking the car as you have done above at ride height and holding an edge as close as possible through the points after having marked off the width of the tyre (before I took the wheel off) to get the centre line. Tie rods shouldn't affect scrub radius, just the affect of the scrub, their effect is more too do with ackermann & steering effort/speed.

[Wally]

I actually did already indeed Rich, just like you described, but think I got the wrong points connected...:confused:
With your answer I am a little confused even more what KPI and scrub radius is. MotoIQ had a great article about it the other day, using tie rod(?) and the lower ball joint of our Mc Pherson suspension system. Or is that just the upper and lower suspension point in the picture? Thought the upper one was the tie rod of the steering in the schematic?
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Tech/The-Ultimate-Guide-To/scrup-radius-dave-point/757401104_LBoxc-L-1.jpg

However, I took the line through the upper Mc Pherson strut connection with the body and the lower ball joint. Thought afterwards I did it wrong and it needed be through the tie rod and lower ball joint. Maybe I did it correct after all?
Anyways, that gave me a scrub distance of +18mm. Still not sure now if that was correctly measured or not...
Mike specified a distance between 3/4" and 3". With 18mm I am right at the lower bandwidth of that.. a bit more might help. I have a little room in the wheel arch, but I think 17" might be better for track driving anyways, mostly because of wheelweight you feel the negative effect of it most on the front. 7x17" is half an inch less wide and with a few mm more spacer, might just give that added scrub we're after?

Tire centerline above is right against the rim contact path, which is somewhat confusing too. It doesn't seem to be the exact tire centerline..?

I'll post some of the pics I took of that tonight.

[Wally]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/KPImeting1303012.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/KPImeting1303010.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/KPImeting1303013.jpg~original

I think I found a way to alter KPI on my car: I can change camber with the extra large excenter bolt on the inner side of the control arm, but also still with the lower strut bolt. If I arrange the strut such that it sits most vertical (less camber with the lower strut bolt), and counter this with making the TCA longer with the inner excenter bolt, I will have effectively reduced KPA and increased the scrub whilst keeping the same camber.
That should yield a little better steering self-centering and straightline stability :)

[ricola]

Wally: you did it correctly for a strut front end, however that image you just posted is how to measure on a double wishbnoe front end (ie the tie rod/steering arm is not shown).
one thing to note also, just in case: you need to draw the line through the centres of the actual ball joints, not the centre at the base as this can throw the measurement out quite a bit (probably just how you have the bar leaning in the picture).

From what I've read -ve scrub gives more of a stabilising effect with a bit less feedback. The problem with going too close to zero is that it can flip between +ve and -ve depending on caster and the dynamic effects of the suspension giving very unstable feeling...

[Wally]

Thanks Rich; yeah, the double wishbone suspension must have confused me :)
The rod was held through the imaginary center of the lower ball-joint, but my wide angle lens doesn't picture everything -in line- so to say.

The lower pic was taken with the front high, afterwards for the actual measurement, I have taken the nose to the cars normal height of course.

So, its either much more positive or very negative scrub for better steering stability??
I though that 'some' positive scrub was the goal?

[ricola]

The 'norm' for RWD is +ve scrub, I'd guess 10-30mm or so? Too much gives to much kick back through the steering. I equate it to +ve giving an 'oversteer-like' kick back through and -ve as an understeer kick through the car during disturbances (ie safe). Like many of these things, it's finding a set-up that works for you as there are so many variables!

[evilC]

I hear you Rich; I run the 21mm spacers up front as well, but more because I couldn't fit the high ET wheels; this was before I ran the slimmer AVO struts. Now the spacers help to have full steering without hitting the inner fenders...

My theory is that the 944 spindles are bad for scrub radius. I think their tie rod ends are located further outwards then the originel VW 2-bolt spindles, which curve more towards the inner side of the car? Not sure though. Whats your take on my theory?

Wally, you are right that the tie rod ends are further out and this is because the steering arm is straighter i.e. more parallel than the 1303 (2 bolt one) I took off. This obviously affects the ackermann but I don't see the corrolation with the scrub radius? The bottom pivot of the 944 strut/stub axle also appears further outboard as my fabricated TCAs, although they match the 1303 pressed steel ones, had to use all the camber adjustment at the base of the strut and the inner bush to get a maximum -1.5* camber. If that is the case then it should move the point at which the kingpin angle i.e. the line through the top mount and the bottom ball joint strikes the ground plane than the VW stub axle.
I found that with 30mm spacers on the front, to fill the arches, the steering became very heavy (+ve scrub radius) and I now run without spacers for easier steering. I also now have inner wheel arch scrubbing with the 6" teledials with 195/65 tyres so I am going to try fitting those tyres to the 7" teledials that will increase the scrub radius but it might provide the compromise between the rubbing and heavy steering as well as stiffening the tyre sidewall.

Clive

[Wally]

Wally, you are right that the tie rod ends are further out and this is because the steering arm is straighter i.e. more parallel than the 1303 (2 bolt one) I took off. This obviously affects the ackermann but I don't see the corrolation with the scrub radius?

Nah, that was my faulty take on what KPI angle was..:o Your right that it doesn't matter for scrub, but will for ackermann principle (if I understand that correctly). Maybe the straighter steering arms on the 944 spindles are a more modern take on suspension geometry?

Anyways, do you think the stance of my front wheel is ok in the turn, or can it have some more negative camber in the corner under stress?
It just may be so that the tca presses the (topline) semi-urethane joint enough inbound that it reduces camber too much? If so, Lee's rose joint solution for the tca may help out?
In the picture, my front camber was -2 degrees in rest!

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_0800.jpg~original

[ricola]

The best way to check if you are running the right amount of camber is to measure the tyre temps across the width after a typical hard drive, if it's constant then you have it all spot on and maximising the grip available.

[Wally]

Good idea, I'll start looking for one of those IR thermometers.

[Bruce.]

absolutely.... (as I suggested previously :D )

The quickest way to find out how your tyres are interacting with the road. Measure inner/middle/outer tread temps for each tyre after a hard few laps. Having a mate handy to write down the numbers as you call them out helps.

[Gerrelt]

Good idea, I'll start looking for one of those IR thermometers.

I got this one: Deal Extreme thermometer (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.41473)
(it's smaller then it looks, it's about 10 cm long)


It's range is from -50 to 260 degrees celsius, and works very good.
And...it's very cheap.

You have to be patient though, delivery takes 1 to 2 weeks.

[judgie]

i have http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?gotonode=ViewProduct&method=mViewProduct&productid=8912&productdescription=thermometer&productcode=&category=0&catgroup=&catmicrogroup=&analysiscode=&requiredresults=16 for doing tyre temps and its also proved to be a great diagnostic tool. checking header temps quickly tells you which cylinder is not running right.

[evilC]

Hi Wally, In answer to your question, the front does look as though it's running about +1* in the turn in roll but the tyre doesn't look too stressed to suggest that anything is moving around too much. I agree with the lads in that you need to take tyre temps to understand what the suspension is doing.

I would be a little concerned to dial too much -ve camber in to increase the verticality of the wheel in long fast turns as that may give the front too much grip. Understeer would be preferable in the long fast turns and my preference is neutral to slight oversteer in the tighter ones.

As regards the 944 steering arms I suspect that the angle, which is more parallel (lets say tending to 0*) is there to correct the position of the steering rack and the angle of the tie rods. Without the accurate geometry of the 944 I can only speculate. Similarly, I haven't modelled the front end of the bug with the steering box arrangement to check the ackermann, all I can say is that the steering gets heavy beyond a 1/2 turn on the steering wheel and I find that its appears to dig in on the outer wheel with no scrubbing. That may be as a result of the lower roll centre although I will experiment with the original roll centre soon.

Clive

[Wally]

Thanks for that Clive! I agree and won't dial in more neg. camber. Lee's new arms and the heim joints in them may however limit the amount of movement inbound the arm makes when hard cornering and so preventing further positive camber change.

I am also considering changing back to a 17"wheel as I feel the 18" are just a little too heavy for competition. I may regret it but I just need to see what it feels like again.

[aartjan]

If I remember correctly you still wanted to increase caster for more straight line stability. Maybe this is an opportunity to also profit from the inherit increase in dynamic camber related to steering angle? So just that little more bite in the short corners, while maintaining the same amount of (safe) understeer in the long high-speed sweeps?

Besides advantages in mass, smaller wheels might also give the advantage to use them in combination with a tire (shape) that is less sensitive to positive camber angles; if that is a point to consider?

[Wally]

If I remember correctly you still wanted to increase caster for more straight line stability. Maybe this is an opportunity to also profit from the inherit increase in dynamic camber related to steering angle? So just that little more bite in the short corners, while maintaining the same amount of (safe) understeer in the long high-speed sweeps?

Besides advantages in mass, smaller wheels might also give the advantage to use them in combination with a tire (shape) that is less sensitive to positive camber angles; if that is a point to consider?

I like how you say this! :D
All good points I think AJ, some of them I didn't even think about before.

[evilC]

.................I am also considering changing back to a 17"wheel as I feel the 18" are just a little too heavy for competition. I may regret it but I just need to see what it feels like again.

Wally, You may be right about the wheel change. principally the larger the rim diameter the heavier the wheel/tyre combination is for the same o/a diameter. This would be of significance with the unsprung weight that will affect the damper performance and bearing in mind the sprung/unsprung weight ratio on the front of a strut bug. You could also look at a compression strut installation that Rob and i have talked about in the past as that will immediately turn the anti-roll bar into sprung mass rather than unsprung with a significant effect on the ratio.

It may be fashionable to fit large diameter rims with low profile tyres but the same overall diameter with a taller tyre is lighter (tyre wall rubber is lighter than aluminium wheel.

If you set the suspension travel to standard then a 17" tyre wheel combo will lower the front by 5-35mm depending on individual tyres that has to be beneficial whilst still maintaining the geometry.

I was going to suggest a crossply racing/road legal tyre but I could find any 17" ones just 15". You could revert to 15" and use crossplys to give that extra wall stiffness and keep the tread flatter but only if your brakes will accommodate the 15" wheel. you certainly have enough power to make them work.

[volkdent]

Speaking strictly from a weight/diameter perspective, I was surprised that, with all other things being equal or better, once I went from a 17" OEM Cup II to the heavier 18" Cup II repro my 1/4 mile time slowed appreciably and consistantly. I just didn't expect it to make THAT big a difference, but it was almost half a second.

Jason

[70Turbobug]

I would try one thing after the other.Making various changes at once you won't really know what effect each individual mod has done imho.I personally disagree a little with some points mentioned.An 18" wheel is generally heavier but provides more stability also, especially ona highspeed straight and high speed corners.How many cup cars do you see with a 17" wheel nowadays? Most are running 19" or bigger.Obviously wheelbase and width are much larger than a bug which justifies the larger wheels also.Imho a larger wheel provides more overall stability in handling and would trade a couple of kilos for it any day.Remmele's bug runs under a 1:12 minute around the Hockenheim small course (997 Porsche GT3 RS runs 1:11)with 19",2 seconds faster than at the Recaro Tuning Days a few years ago with 18",and he has "only" 300bhp.Also what competition are we talking about? Against other track day cars? Wally's power to weight ratio puts him pretty far up in the field and just judging by the videos he's not really pushing it to the limit. I don't mean that negatively on your driving Wally ;)
For autocross a smaller diameter wheel is the way to go for the sharp and short corners but it's much different on an open track.

[judgie]

not done much testing with the 17 inch wheels but the few runs i have done i can say this, the turn in is much sharper and the brakeing seems to be better. i went from a 580mm tyre to a 620mm tyre. i was expecting to have problems with turn in as i have fitted a zf lsd as well but it was very good once i changed my driving style to suit.
tyre wise i was running 240/580/15 on 9 inch wide rims on the rear and 200/580/15 on 8 inch rims at the front with softish rally slicks. i'm now running 7.5x17 with 200/620/17 track wets which again are very soft. i have more grip and it feels very stable upto 80mph which is about as fast as i can go at prescott hill climb.
one thing i did notice was a feeling from the front that the tca to anti roll bar joint was moving, i could feel a knock when hard braking and then movment till it loaded up, this was more when braking into the corner. think i'm going to try the compresion stut to tune this out.

[Wally]

If you set the suspension travel to standard then a 17" tyre wheel combo will lower the front by 5-35mm depending on individual tyres that has to be beneficial whilst still maintaining the geometry.


Very much agree with your whole post Clive! You just said it so much better :)
I will change the 7,5x18 with 225/40 fronts for 7,0x17 with 205/40. That alone gives a 20mm drop in ride height wih equal suspension geometry.

Mark, I do agree I shouldn't change multiple things at the same time so the proper effect of each can be judged better, however...there are only so many hours in the day and so much time I can spend on wrenching and driving in a season (unfortunately).
I don't agree with your saying that 18 or 19" is better for circuit driving with one car as an example. Remmele may have changed more things at the same time also...or just learnt the track better. You may be referencing to the gyroscopic effect a larger and heavier wheel has? That is indeed beneficial for straight line stability ONLY, but works counter w hen you want to change direction, i.e. turning in for a corner. With competition use I was referencing to me taking part in the TimeAttack series in the Netherlands. I even won my class last year (on points, but still) if you didn't caught up with that yet :-) http://www.timeattack.nl/nl/news/item/434/1057/winnaars_time_attack_2011_gefeliciteerd_.html .
You are absolutely right that I don't push it extremely hard in corners at the track and that is part of my poor driving abailities to push it on the edge of slip but part of me doesn't want to explore that fine line too closely. That doesn;t help my track times on circuits, but I am having fun nonetheless, I assure you!
Jasons' experience is what I was expecting and speaks volumes for what a heavier wheel does imo. Thank you for sharing that Jason!

In my opinion, wheel size just needs to be as small as to just fit your brakes and width adjustable to power you run. My front 350mm disks limit that to 17"which suits me fine tbh.

The wheel I chose are about 1,7 kg lighter for the fronts and 1,2 kg lighter for the rears. I expect about 1 kg per tire savings as well, so this should give a pretty big gain i reducing unsprung weight. The bummer is, I bought them with winter tires and have to get new summer/semi's now for them as well, so that will probably have to wait a while for budget to recover.

I'll try to make a pic coming weekend with the new wheels on the car ;)

[Wally]

Picked up a set of 9Jx17 / 7Jx17 with 205/50/17 M+S on the front.
These front wheels weighted 3,7 kg less per wheel then my current front wheels (!!).

[Wally]

Some pics of the new wheels, still with snow tires, 50 series even in front :lmao:
Yes, its definitely function over form: the gold wheels looked much more spectacular, but I think these will drive better and that what counts for me.

Went for a drive with my girl today to do some groceries, which was quality time times two :)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/EOS17inch996wielennov2011001.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/EOS17inch996wielennov2011013.jpg~original

[Sandeep]

Great pics Wally ! The bumper cover mod looks very subtle .. I didin't even notice it the first time I looked :o

You car looks much more "tame" with the new wheels :p, looking forward to the race reports.

Sandeep

[Wally]

You car looks much more "tame" with the new wheels :p,

Sandeep

Yeah and thats not necessarily a bad thing when you also drive on the road imo.
But no worries, I think a 40-series front tire lateron and maybe a little turning down of the strut will give it even more aero benefit and probably also a little less 'tame' look ;).

[dave forder]

Yeah and thats not necessarily a bad thing when you also drive on the road imo.
But no worries, I think a 40-series front tire lateron and maybe a little turning down of the strut will give it even more aero benefit and probably also a little less 'tame' look ;).

Good choice of wheels. Your car will be more agile with these wheels and I agree it makes the car look tame, a tweek with the suspension and tyres will get back that agressive look (those goldies did look good though but it is not all about looks when you are out on the track).

[Wally]

Thanks Dave, we're definitely on the same page!

[NO_H2O]

I like the new wheels and the aero cover on the bumper.

[ferfre007]

que hermoso, cada vez esta mas hermoso este vw!!! felicidades!!

[Xellex]

Paint the wheels gold to keep the bug's personality unchanged! :D
Dare I ask, what are your plans about the bbs wheels?

[Wally]

Paint the wheels gold to keep the bug's personality unchanged! :D

Nah, that wouldn't suit this type of wheel. Besides, did you know I did not paint the BBS wheels hearts? The former owner (they were on a custom GolfV) I bought the wheels from painted them gold, I just bought them like that. Mostly because I was looking for that particulair size (9Jx18 is rather rare, most rears are 10Jx18).

Dare I ask, what are your plans about the bbs wheels?
They will be sold to raise funds to pay for the semi-slick tires I need for the 17". The current owner of my former 412S has an interest, so we'll see if that works out ;)

[Xellex]

oh, if I remember correctly, I saw a picture of the 412 with those wheels on, and it looked veeery nice.
If that doesn't work out in the end, I'd very much like a price quote on those :D

[Wally]

If that doesn't work out in the end, I'd very much like a price quote on those :D
No worries mate, you'll be first then, but he would be very foolish not to accept as I asked him a very reasonable price (which would be same for you then of course ;)).

[Wally]

Found some pics someone posted from the last race.
Did some racin'
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/Sadiek2002/Auto-sport%20Events/2011/Super%20Sunday%202011/IMG_5904-border.jpg~original
Kissed some girls
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/Sadiek2002/Auto-sport%20Events/2011/Super%20Sunday%202011/IMG_6130-border.jpg~original
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/Sadiek2002/Auto-sport%20Events/2011/Super%20Sunday%202011/IMG_6133-border.jpg~original
and sprayed some cheap bubbles :lmao:
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/Sadiek2002/Auto-sport%20Events/2011/Super%20Sunday%202011/IMG_6181-border.jpg~original

[TSAF]

Are you sure only kissing:cool::cool::cool::cool:????????

[Sandeep]

HAHA !! Fantastic ! And you did it with an aircooled VW, life is good !

Sandeep

[Steve C]

Hi Wally

So what did you do that deserved a kiss and a champagne spray, besides driving a cool car?

Steve

[Wally]

Page 65 and 66 Steve ;-)
It was 25 sept 2011, the last race of the time attack series for 2011 in the netherlands and I won (on points) my class ;-)

[70Turbobug]

Congrats Wally!! I see one hand on the trophy....where was the other one? 

[Wally]

Well, lets say, there are some things the wiFe better not know about :lmao:
Cynthia is just sooo cute! :D
At least now I know why I want to be first in my class again next year :cool:
(which won;t be easy as hey upped the class limit by 5 whole seconds)

[owdlvr]

Well, lets say, there are some things the wide better not know about :lmao:
Cynthia is just sooo cute! :D
At least now I know why I want to be first in my class again next year :cool:
(which won;t be easy as hey upped the class limit by 5 whole seconds)


...pretty sure also you don't want your wife knowing you refer to her as "the wide"!!

;-)

-Dave

[Wally]

:lmao: oeps, spelling error :o
Nah, she's cute too ;)

[Wally]

Last event this year was a dynoday with 12 cars.
Was very cool and lots of fun with many familiar faces :)

My heap made 458 hp at 7000 rpm with 1,7 bar boost, which was a little disappointing as I would have expected 20-30 hp more with the much cooler weather.
Oh well..the dyno operator let the engine run on by accident, so it peaked at just over 7700 rpm where I had set the rpm-cut. It had still 1.7 bar boost (25 psi) at that rpm, so I am very happy (and almost suprised) the engine survived that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6FzJeoqe1U

[effvee]

Hi, during the off season will you take your engine apart for a inspection? That engine has done very well:eek:

[70Turbobug]

Congrats Wally!! That's freakin awesome! If you expected more,then one explanation could be if it the dyno bases its measurement on speed,possibly the smaller wheels produced a slower speed? Maybe the correction factor hasn't been changed since your last run? A larger wheel would turn the dyno faster at the same rpm.Just a guess....

[judgie]

still good numbers. got any plans over the winter for car?

[Wally]

still good numbers. got any plans over the winter for car?

@ Rob: Plans, yes, I would like change the camshaft for a better breathing one. The current heads could really use more cam I realise now after my understanding of a turbo engine has changed quite somewhat over the past few years ;)
@ Francelle: There is really little reason to open up the engine otherwise for inspection as the first part of the power curve is exactly the same as the one from early this year.

However, I am building a project T1 1200cc EFI turbo, so that will probably eat up all of the time and I might even miss a few events next year because of this.
OTOH, opening the engine for just a cam could mean I would want to replace more parts; you know how that goes and could mean downtime for a longer period.

Decision, decisions...

The engine will come out over X-mas holidays anyways and I can inspect the dual Black Magic disks and flywheel. Curious how that looks...
I also have one damaged Jenvey TB from the backfire that broke two rockers and bend the butterfly valves on one side. I straightenend them but it caused severe play on the TB/butterfly shaft I noticed and resulted in the linkage arms on the TB shaft to be blown off on boost... Fixed that by a locktited screw in the TB shaft :lmao: but I also loose some spool probably over the shaft since, so may have to get one new TB as well anyways (ouch).

Thats about it :o

[judgie]

so is the cam thats needed more duration or more lift? i would guess you want a faster ramp to open them and less overlap but not more lift? faster ramp would mean better springs to control the lift/close speeds. from what i understand big lift is not needed on turbo motors, just the time the valve is open, the turbo is pushing the mix so you dont need the lift, but you want the valves open for as long as possable with the least amount of overlap.

[Wally]

so is the cam thats needed more duration or more lift? i would guess you want a faster ramp to open them and less overlap but not more lift? faster ramp would mean better springs to control the lift/close speeds

Yes, I would say you'd always want to have a ramp as fast and agressive as your lifter foot would support IF...and a big if...if the additional wear and extra needed spring wouldn't be an issue. However, it IS an issue and that means its always a compromise with what your particular valve train will support.
The other downfall of more duration is less torque down low.
If you can lessen both downsides of more duration, you optimize the engine's efficiency.
The first issue of spring control is 'easy' to manage by better parts. Lighter yet stronger is the goal.
The second issue is more difficult to control. A lot can be done here too though with cam timing: Most view duration as a "1-dimensional" property of a given single number of degrees duration. However, the duration is made up from both the opening AND closing of the valve. And that for both intake and exhaust valve which doesn't need to be the same either.
For example, you can have the same duration for intake and exhaust, yet still have different opening and closing timing for either. Most all cam makers have symmetrical opening and closing timing, its convenient, but that doesn't need to be.
Long story short, I have a (Pauter) cam here that has 20 degrees more duration, but its intake valve closes (that determines dynamic compression) at the same time as my current Webcam. That of course means it gets its extra duration from earlier opening resulting in more overlap. My take is that overlap can be managed by a better exhaust system, i.e. equal length exh. manifolds and even better: twin scroll design.
Guess what's on my car and for what reason? :D


. from what i understand big lift is not needed on turbo motors, just the time the valve is open, the turbo is pushing the mix so you dont need the lift, but you want the valves open for as long as possable with the least amount of overlap.

So, overlap is manageble as shown above and the myth that turbo engines don't need the (extra) lift is pretty much busted by my first turbo engine (stock 914 2.0) when I just (only change) put a set of Pauter ratio rockers on and made 40-50 more hp (222->270hp) at the same boost!

A fast ramp of course is also favourable as it gives you the lift as soon and long as possible. If lift wasn't much of a concern, a fast ramp wouldn't be necessary either, which contradicts your saying that lift isn't much of a concern with turbo even more.

If it all works out as I have thought it out, remains to be seen of course. Its difficult to do 'scientific' and therefore conclusive testing for a privateer (and even for a shop), but if I could do just a cam change and nothing else, that would be very interesting. Not sure if it comes to that in 2012 though...

[70Turbobug]

The other downfall of more duration is less torque down low.
If you can lessen both downsides of more duration, you optimize the engine's efficiency.


Another way to compensate for that and have an aggressive ramp,prolonging valve open timing is to use a smaller base circle and a wider lobe center.If you can use a higher compression ratio also.Wally mentioned picking up 40hp just by changing rockers.One reason is not only the extra lift but with the higher ratio the valve opening rate in mm per second also rose dramatically.Basically the same effect as having a steeper ramp on the cam.
Wally is running a pretty big turbo with relatively small displacement.Most of the ricers that run these large turbos don't have much power below 4500rpm but therefore rev easily 8500rpm.What's the point? Wally's cam may be too mild and the lift too low to spool the turbo sooner, making the whole set up less responsive.Sounds like the opposite of what Wally said above, but it's not really.If you have a typical drag race cam an NA engine may be a little sluggish in the lower rpm range.That's due to lack of airflow actually airspeed causing a lower inefficient cylinder pressure.This is where the efficiency of the turbo and the rest of the system i.e twin scroll,static compression ratio,tuning etc. come into play.
True a turbo engine does not need a high lift high duration cam to make power,but if you want high boost and responsiveness that low lift low duration will become more of a restriction especially if you want a lot of power out of a small displacent engine.

[judgie]

it wasn't as much the amount of lift i said the turbo responeds to but the amount of time its open. the valve needs to be open and flowing for as long as pratical but big lift numbers are not allways needed as long as the flow is there.
hence why i said a faster ramp to get to the max lift would poss work better than just more lift, but you need the valve train to support the faster ramp.
the amount of boost will also play a big part in this. at a guess you could almost stall the airflow in the port with high boost, this would cuase a lot of turbulance around the back of the valve and poss even fuel seperation.
i have no real data to back any of that up just info from what i have seen and been told.

[Wally]

.. but big lift numbers are not allways needed as long as the flow is there.

Thats just the point Rob: more lift usually means more flow, especially in my case: I have 46mm intake valve and just 0.50" lift, which just isn't optimizing what the port can flow, at all.
A turbo engine really responds to that the same as n/a, maybe even more so.
YMMV of course ;)

[70Turbobug]

Thats just the point Rob: more lift usually means more flow, especially in my case: I have 46mm intake valve and just 0.50" lift, which just isn't optimizing what the port can flow, at all.

That depends on the engine's off boost efficiency,also.The trick is to gain cfm and velocity.Portdesign and valve size and valve timing are important for that.

[Bruce.]

more lift? well in the situation of Wally's stock 914 gaining significant HP with ratio rackers....
Even if the original peak lift exceeded the flow capacity of the port, adding ratio rackers increases the average lift during the cycle so has more flow for longer even if the peak flow might be unchanged.

more duration? perhaps not totally suited to turbo engines but a higher compression ratio means you can advance the exhaust openning point. That way you can get longer exhaust duration without increasing overlap. This is because with high compression ratios, the cylinder pressure falls faster as the piston moves away from the head on the detonation stoke.

[Wally]

Steel front hood is 8.8kg, this Kerscher 'super leicht' 1303 hood (this light weight version is not on their web-site) weighs 4.9 kg, but needs some adhesive and hood handle, so more like a 3,5kg difference.
At least it won't rust anymore :D

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Diverse%20parts/KerscherGRPklep002.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Diverse%20parts/KerscherGRPklep001.jpg~original

[owdlvr]

Niiiiiice!

If I wasn't going to rally my car, I'd be looking for composite panels. Too much heartbreak when you kiss a snowbank though...which happens more often then we'd like to admit!

-Dave

[70Turbobug]

I see you´re making progress on the 1200 also...:D

[Wally]

Good eye!
But, yes indeed :D 2,2 will go out somewhere in the coming weeks after the longblock is done to test-install and adapt the intake and exhaust routing of the 1200T.

[Steve C]

Niiiiiice!

If I wasn't going to rally my car, I'd be looking for composite panels. Too much heartbreak when you kiss a snowbank though...which happens more often then we'd like to admit!

-Dave

Hi

I've found that fibre glass panels have a bit of flex before breaking where as the steel versions just bend.

Steve

[evilC]

Niiiiiice!

If I wasn't going to rally my car, I'd be looking for composite panels. Too much heartbreak when you kiss a snowbank though...which happens more often then we'd like to admit!

-Dave

Dave, don't you use the snowbanks in good Scandinavian style? On the rare occasions we have decent snow with better than 1/2m high banks I just love kissing the banks to aid turn in!:D:D

( we are fortunate here because when the snow is that high the roads are really clear 'cos us Brits hate snow dontcha know;))

Clive

[Wally]

Just pulled the engine out for replacement with the 1200 Challenge motor.
This is what the pressure plate looks like that came of the 2,2 T4T:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/KoppelingT4T010.jpg~original

:(

Now what?

[TSAF]

Wally seriously only 1200cc type I turbo? W H Y????

[Wally]

Wally seriously only 1200cc type I turbo? W H Y????

Its sort of a build-off for a dyno challenge at the 1. Mai Hannover Käfertreffen in Germany ;) Actually the dyno-day for that is already at april 29 2012.
After that the type 4 comes back in. I just don't have two beetles fully outfitted with EFI ancillaries, so I have to swap engines for this.

So dont worry :cool:

[paul_f]

Is it a Kennedy clutch Wally? I have read quite a few complaints that the modern Kennedys do this, but then if you have the surface ground flat again they stay straight. I am pretty sure a guy called Fastorq on VZi posted that he had made the tooling so he could offer this service

[Wally]

Yeah its a Kennedy clutch.
No worries, we can ground pressure plates here as well ;-)
However, I am considering not using this set-up anymore and go a different direction with the clutch. Not sure yet if that idea is possible though with my current tranny set-up.
If it can be made to fit, I'll post it.

[wrenchnride247]

After everything you did to get the G50 stuffed in there... a clutch should be no problem :)

[Steve Arndt]

What is the clutch plan for a T1->G50 mate up?

Steve

[Wally]

Yeah, thats probably a first: a VW 1200cc type 1 engine mated to a 1988 Carrera 5-speed gearbox :lmao:

Its already hanging:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Auspufffastfertig1200Challenger010.jpg~original

I used a Vanagon 1600 flywheel. These are 215mm stock. We then machined it a little larger still to 228mm, so I could use the Kennedy 228mm plates from formerly failed type4 attempts (which have a G50 spline). I have just an old used and abused organic one in now. The widening/machining leaves a little valley in the flywheel surface of just a few mm on the outside, but with an old burnt Sachs 'race engineering' pressure plate machined down so it could be used again, the whole thing fitted like it did with the type 4 and will probably have more then enough clamping for the 1200T. The spline-length of the G50 was just a little too long still, so I had to use the air dremel to free up the Berg flywheel bolt, but as above, it fits and clutch pedal is light again despite the stage 2-ish pp :D
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Vliegwielboutvrijmaken004.jpg~original

In the meantime, I am making the turbo header:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Auspufffastfertig1200Challenger016.jpg~original

[Supa Ninja]

I can't wait to see what numbers this think makes ;)

Everything looks good on this lil monster.

[70Turbobug]

Yeah, thats probably a first: a VW 1200cc type 1 engine mated to a 1988 Carrera 5-speed gearbox

I don´t think the G50 will hold up :lmao: 100hp/ccm right?:D

Looking good Wally! I´m really looking forward to seeing you in May in Tornesch!

[Wally]

In the meantime...bought a used Tilton 3-plate set-up on ebay from a Nascar racer (with the wrong splines of course), just to see what the dimensions were and how much the parts weighed:

Kennedy 9" (228mm) dual plate:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Tiltonclutch002.jpg

Tilton 7,25" (184mm) triple plate:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Tiltonclutch004.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Tiltonclutch005.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Tiltonclutch007.jpg

:shock:
F*ck Kennedy, the Tilton set-up will be made to fit one way or the other! :twisted:
It will take time and probably too much money, but this seems really worth it imo.

[chug_A_bug]

WOW! that's CRAZY....

Chris.

[Wally]

Now all fuel lines were open, I bled the tank and could finally put the catchtank back again as now I've routed the fuel return to catch tank directly, like its supposed to be.. Also increased fuel piping on catchtank for intake from the Carter priming pump.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Catchtankreinstalled001.jpg

and the dry-sump tank has been installed on top of it all again:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Catchtankreinstalled004.jpg

[Steve C]

Hi Wally

Ive tried to find out what size your clutch master cylinder is by searching though your post, I couldn't find the answer. Can you tell me?

That clutch looks like a good upgrade for when the big block goes back in, at least it doesn't waste the engine removal time you spent.

Steve

[Wally]

Steve,
The master cylinder is still the old one from the Saco set I installed when the 915 went in.
I really don't know 4sure what size they used, maybe you can check vendors of Saco conversion set-ups?
It seems to work fine with either the slave saco provided back then ('CNC' brand?) and the annular Luk/VW TOB I use now with the G50.

[paul_f]

Hi Wally, is the water tank for water injection?

[Wally]

Yes, actually it has 50% methanol content.

[volkdent]

Hey Wally, I've got 100% methanol right now, any reason I should or shouldn't be running 50/50 mix?

Jason

[Wally]

Hey Wally, I've got 100% methanol right now, any reason I should or shouldn't be running 50/50 mix?

Jason

Yes, lots of reasons not to use 100% meth.
Too much, too long explanantion with many arguments on the practicle and performance side to the why of that, sorry.
I've have come to the conclusion 50/50 is best.
YMMV ;)

[volkdent]

Yes, lots of reasons not to use 100% meth.
Too much, too long explanantion with many arguments on the practicle and performance side to the why of that, sorry.
I've have come to the conclusion 50/50 is best.
YMMV ;)

Certainly half as expensive! Thanks, I'll use distilled water then?

Jason

[brookester]

...plus 100% is flammable.

[Wally]

Certainly half as expensive! Thanks, I'll use distilled water then?

Jason

Yes, definately! Regular water contains salts which will block your jet(s) openings after a while.
The (non-visible) flammable part is one of the many reasons not to use 100% or even 75% meth iirc. At 50/50 is non-flammabe anymore as well. Not sure where exactly the border is, but its a moot point.

[Wally]

Last week I took the engine apart as I wanted to have the case machined for a different cooling system (more of that later when its all worked out) and another cam to try out.

Good thing I did as all bearings and heads, pistons, cylinders were still in tip-top shape, but the rods were surely not!
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Prattenburg022.jpg~original

One has had a movement is 2 directions, but two others were just bend one way :D Before discussions start if this was the limit of stock rods: NO, its not; this was all caused by boost-cuts of the ecu causing huge back fires that even snapped two rockers if you can remember ;)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/22stotersendrijfstangen003.jpg~original

Fortunately Jake still had a set of slightly used Pauters, so those are underway :D

[Clatter]

Does this mean that you got another set of 1.7-1.8 spec rods?
Or are you going to be getting a crank upgrade?

I look at those "stock" rods,
ANd there sure was a lot of nice work put into them.
Nice trophies for sure!:D

[Wally]

Does this mean that you got another set of 1.7-1.8 spec rods?

Not yet, but these are underway :D
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Pauter17rods.jpg~original

Or are you going to be getting a crank upgrade?

The nice thing about the 74mm stroker I still have is that its got the same big end journal as the 1.7/1.8 ltr 66mm crank :)
The problem is the cylinders had to be cut back very short so its doubtfull 8mm more stroke is seen as still safe for how far the pistons will come out then...
But I am sure you know what would have my vote :lmao:

I look at those "stock" rods,
ANd there sure was a lot of nice work put into them.
Nice trophies for sure!:D
You got that right: LOTS of work went into them ;)

[Xellex]

wow, I can't believe the rods bent so bad, that it's very visible in the pictures.. and still nothing failed.

[Bradey Bunch]

Is the crank still straight?

Braden

[Wally]

Is the crank still straight?

Braden

Don't know yet as I haven't got the sort of equipment to measure that myself, but crankshaft is spotless and must be straight as all main and bearings were super nice as well:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Prattenburg025.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Prattenburg021.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Prattenburg019.jpg~original

[NO_H2O]

Wow. Looks like you caught those just in time. They are wall hangers for sure.

[hotsauce]

That coulda been messy! Good thing you tore it down!

[vw1303]

Hey Wally, have you selected a turbo for the 1200cc motor yet?

[Wally]

Hey Wally, have you selected a turbo for the 1200cc motor yet?

Yes indeed, had it for some time already now: its the stock turbo from a 2.0 wrx subaru: TD04L-13T. The 04L is a very small hot side, will be perfect for the little 1,2 I think. It spools the 2 ltr suby at 2,5K already I read, so 'normal' spool for the 1,2 should be possible. They are also very cheap to pick up from ebay: a 100 (whatever currency) will get you a good one most likely.
I am equally excited how this will turn out tbh ;)

[70Turbobug]

Just don't become sensible and permanantly trade small displacement and gas mileage over bigblock power :D Remember you do have a reputation to hold!

[dub_crazee]

Wow those rods are unreal!! i wonder how much longer they would have lasted. just goes to show much much strain they can go through before they do go bang!
definately looking forward to your progress with the 1200 motor....good luck
Deano

[Wally]

Just don't become sensible and permanantly trade small displacement and gas mileage over bigblock power :D Remember you do have a reputation to hold!

Nah, there's no reputation. Remember, this is all the internet; I may as well not exist and all you've seen are computer animations :D

On a serious note I am seriously looking to my still patiently waiting 74mm 'stroker' and how far out of the bores the pistons would really come with this one.
It would mean a displacement of 2466cc :D

[70Turbobug]

LOL! Yeah,actually you're just a myth! :D
I would go with the 74mm crank too.You may have to use cylinder spacers,but that's no problem.You can make them any thickness you need.

[Wally]

Just received the new centrally positioned cooling system with 964-style housing from MSS :cool:

Some intitial pics:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/LufterMSS027.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/LufterMSS024.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/LufterMSS022.jpg

[70Turbobug]

Nice! Markus does really nice work!

[TSAF]

Wally rules. hehehehehe

[Wally]

Vid from the dyno day last november with the 2,2ltr ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckZTZ7x7IjI


Thanks Jeroen!

[paul_f]

The new cooling system looks nice. Will a lot of rework of your intake system be needed with it compared to the horizontal setup?

[Wally]

Not much really I suspect, allthough usually you don't anticipate everything in a build as we all know too well. It will be nice to get a push-pull linkage again though ;-)

[scardeep]

I bought a type 4 engine and your car is one of the stars in my “map” to follow! Hope you don’t mind..?
What are you going to do with intercooler? That tail was your “logo” in my eyes ;) Looking forward for updates!

[Wally]

What are you going to do with intercooler? That tail was your “logo” in my eyes ;) Looking forward for updates!

No worries Scardeep: Intercooler stays there!
Not much updates yet, will be several weeks before parts are machined.

[Wally]

1200 turbo engine is now up and running again and with a FK7 and 1,4 ratio rockers.
Its "a bit" on the wild side for a 1200cc engine, but rocks from 3K rpm onwards.

First time on the wastegate (leaking BOV though) and up to 6200 rpm :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNkOkUwHHK8

Dynoday in Germany (near Hamburg) is on the 28th april...

[70Turbobug]

I'll definetly be there! I'm really looking forward to finally meeting you after all these years!

[Wally]

Got a feature in a general tuning mag :D

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/AutoTuningartikel.jpg~original

[NO_H2O]

SWEET. You are very deserving of some press.

[chug_A_bug]

very NICE... well Deserved

[owdlvr]

Noice!

...Got a link to the magazine website, wouldn't mind seeing if I can get a copy onto my iPad.

-Dave

[ricola]

Congratulations, about time you got some press recognition!

[Wally]

Tnx fellows!
Dave, this is their web-site:
http://www.autoentuning.nl/

http://www.autoentuning.nl/?p=3928

Cover of the issue and the content page (as far as I am allowed to post):
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/AutoTuningartikelomslag.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/AutoTuninginhoud.jpg~original

[70Turbobug]

Congratulations Wally! I agree,well deserved and long overdue! Why is car in race magazine? Because race car :lmao:

[wrenchnride247]

Very cool Wally! Congrats! :cheers:

[Wally]

Cheers!

In the meantime, I started on the revamp of the 2,2 engine beginning with the new central cooling lay-out:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Ceramics017.jpg~original

[paul_f]

How did you get on with the 1200 turbo?

[Wally]

How did you get on with the 1200 turbo?
Thanks for asking!
I drove 440km to the dyno in germany, made 174 chp (155 whp) and same distance back without problems :)

[vdubzack]

Thanks for asking!
I drove 440km to the dyno in germany, made 174 chp (155 whp) and same distance back without problems :)Wow! I will be getting in contact with you once I start to tune my 2.8. I am goning to turbo it as i found a good candidate to put it in.

[hotsauce]

Congrats on the magazine feature!

[paul_f]

Thanks for asking!
I drove 440km to the dyno in germany, made 174 chp (155 whp) and same distance back without problems :)

Wow nice work:) Do you have a dyno chart for it, am very interested to see what it looks like!

Also will it be in for the rest of this season or are you intending on getting the 2.2 back in ASAP??

[Wally]

I did some testing on my local dyno when she made 160 (this graph reads 159,5 chp) with the small turbo on max 1,335 bar boost (see graph).
For the Challenge I threw on a really big turbo and turned the boost up a tiny bit even further and she made the 174 hp that won the Challenge, but the dyno was different there and due to the really BIG turbo, was extremely peaky. On the road, it wasn;t even so bad, but that dyno loaded pretty fast too. It didn't have rpm on the graph either (let alone a boost plot!), so little to see from that one
The 160 hp graph from the early testing was pretty neat for a 1200 I thought though (purple line is boost plot, how cool is that!):
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/1200dynobijHRengineering008.jpg~original

[70Turbobug]

It was a lot of fun in Tornesch! I think 180 hp (corrected) would have easily been possible if you didn´t have those little hesitations.That litle 1200 sounded pretty pissed off though! Really aggressive on boost! Even 200 may be possible on a more aggressive tune.But since it was a long trip home,no sense in unnecessary risks! It is really astonishing just how much stock 1200 components can take! Remember these are 34hp engines!!

[dub_crazee]

That is absolutely incredible - great work again walter! What remained 'stock' internal wise on the motor out of interest?

AWESOME!! :D

[Wally]

What remained 'stock' internal wise on the motor out of interest?


What do you define as stock? Stock 1200 ('40hp') rods, but shotpeened and ARP bolts from a Ford engine as they were the same (searched long time).
Lots or all is basically stock, but most stock parts we tried to make a little better/stronger. Upgraded, but basically stock parts therefore.
I used sort-of the same tactic as with my 2,2 ltr ;)
Likewise the 64mm non-stroker crank, (cast Mahle, but said to be made for oettinger) pistons and original VW twin port (1300) heads.
So, lots of TLC :-)

[paul_f]

Good work Wally, thanks for posting the curve!

[70Turbobug]

Wally just mentioned the key...TLC and quality workmanship.I started the 1200 Challenge in 2009 and the turbocharged engines were all pretty similar as the rules dictated a stock bottom end and the 77mm bore.Armin Klein held the crown since then with a 130hp turbo 1200.A more aggressive cam and better tuning brought Wally these results.Personally I believe that Wally´s ability to tune and dial in an engine is gets him these great results,just like with his 2.2 T4.Especially if you compare to how the other competitors´engines run and how they act under a load.There´s no cooincedence or luck involved ;)

[Wally]

Thanks for the flowers Mark ;-)

[dub_crazee]

by stock i mean the same parts as vw would have used even if re-worked. i think its amazing what abuse those parts are taking. you must have put a lot of attention into many if the parts - i dread to imagine the housrs you have put into it! :cool: great work

[Wally]

Anyways, 1200 is out of the car and the type 4 is being worked on to get it reassembled and slightly upgraded.
Long block together again. Always a major point to reach :)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/T4Topbouw007.jpg~original

[NO_H2O]

Yes it is a major point. Good to see it going back together.

[70Turbobug]

Looking good Wally!

[judgie]

whats the slight upgrades? i'm guessing some rods that are not banana shape!

[Wally]

whats the slight upgrades? i'm guessing some rods that are not banana shape!

Yeah, that part for sure: a set of slightly used Pauters (taken over from Jake Raby) will take their place.
Also a new cam with a little more lift and duration, lighter clutch/flywheel and the new cooling system.
Maybe a smaller turbo for track (the corner type) events.

Thats about it.

[Bogara_ZO]

Don't know if you've seen this.
0:51
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz9OAKwjVq0&feature=related

[Wally]

Yeah, its in my favorites album. It was a damp track that day with a few slides here and there.
Cheers for that mate!

Have cut the (new) fan housing to shorten it as my engine is still extremely short:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/MiaArnemei2012002.jpg~original

[TSAF]

Wally I told you in the past that since you are a pioneer in type4 turbocharged engines you should do it professionally. Nice work by the way.

[70Turbobug]

There´s no money in it really if you consider the time and hassle involved with parts.The only way to go is to make as many parts as you can yourself which requires a whole park of expensive machines and tools.Nowadays that´s the only way you can stay in business and build quality engines.Also 80% of the aircooled community are cheap and are not willing to pay the price for quality custom made parts.An engine like Wally´s would have to sell for about 10-15K at least in order to be able to live off of it owning a business.

[Wally]

...you should do it professionally.


Thanks for the complement, but I like it better as a hobby. I also have more joy in the tuning of engines then building them tbh.
EFI tuning engines would be a fun job though ;-)

I have a wild idea to try out next season BTW :-)

[Wally]

Some new ingredients to better chase the Race-taxi at Spa this year :D

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Bandenenetc001.jpg~original

[NO_H2O]

Sweet. Grip is good.

[70Turbobug]

Nice! Toyo R888? How's the engine coming along?

[judgie]

i had good fun trying to chase the race taxi round lydden hill a few weeks ago.

[ricola]

Surely you will be faster than the race taxi Wally?!

[Wally]

Surely you will be faster than the race taxi Wally?!

I doubt that very much. He's ace at taking corners. I have much less confidence. Hopefully the new tire will help some with confidence ;)

Engine long block is sort of ready Mark, shroud is 'fixed' again :lmao:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/T4Tcoolingtestfit003.jpg~original

Flywheel and clutch are finally ready too, so hopefully hang the block in the car this WE :)
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/TiltonclutchPRs011.jpg~original

[70Turbobug]

I love that clutch! Do you have a hydraulic throw-out bearing? Looks like you´ll be back on the road soon! It will be interessting to see how all these new mods will perform!

[effvee]

Cheers!

In the meantime, I started on the revamp of the 2,2 engine beginning with the new central cooling lay-out:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Ceramics017.jpg~original

Walter, why the change in shrouds? I thought you liked the horizontal setup better. Was there a difference in CFM of the two?

[70Turbobug]

I would say the fan belt is one reason...

[Wally]

Walter, why the change in shrouds? I thought you liked the horizontal setup better. Was there a difference in CFM of the two?

Yes, I like the horizontal set-up A LOT! However, at very high RPM, it doesn't always stay on when the ecu activates the Rev-cut or fuel-cut.
It has shown to be good for 7700 RPM easy, but not combined with sudden soft- or hard-cuts in the ignition.

Air distribution is naturally very good with the horizontal set-up, but with the arrival of this centrally positioned cooling system from MSS with his shroud, I think there is a better chance cooling will be close to evenly spread with this one as well.

CFM (total air moved) is dependant on a lot of other things. Pulley size has a huge part there and the Riechert pulley is much larger (172mm?) then the vertical set-ups (most are 145mm as is this one, also to clear the DS pump), so you know which one will move more air...

Also the fans are different. 12 blade fans displace less air then the older 11-blades, so thats different as well.
Your question about CU.ft/min sort of suggests that more CFM cools better, which is still questionable. Lots of variables.

So, ...my track use with very high rpm with lots of iginition cuts more or less lead me to a vertical set-up again, but I think only by actually using the system and seeing what it does or doen not do on a certain engine, can give an idea of how well something works.

[judgie]

I think only by actually using the system and seeing what it does or does not do on a certain engine, can give an idea of how well something works.
I think thats the best bit of advice i have seen on any forum.
looking good.

[spannermanager]

. but I think only by actually using the system and seeing what it does or doen not do on a certain engine, can give an idea of how well something works.
X Two for that, ive come across cases where the motor was overcooled and needed the smaller pulleys to bring it back into 'the zone', and it picked up A LOT of power.

[Wally]

I knew if I wrote enough, there must be something that makes sense now and then :lmao:
Cheers guys ;)

Anyways, I finally remembered a little thing that was almost forgotten: maching the flywheel for the central pinion bearing...:o
Got that done today, so finally the flywheel and clutch are on the engine.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Poulies009.jpg~original

Also bought a set of new CV's for the outer sides only as these Lobro/GKN ones are quality but 4x as expensive as chinese Empi ones (assuming those are the cheap ones).
Hopefully I can finally put the engine in later this week and finish the install over the weekend.

[Steve Arndt]

Are you using regular 930, or the big boy 934/935?

The time I bought Lobro 930s they were $55 per joint. That was a few years ago...

Steve

[Wally]

Are you using regular 930, or the big boy 934/935?

The time I bought Lobro 930s they were $55 per joint. That was a few years ago...

Steve
Hmm, interesting as I didn't even know there were two types of 930 CV's?
All I know are the 108mm outside diameter "930" Porsche CV's, which is the size some/most 915 transmissions already have and is also standard size for all G50's.

However...I have converted to Richards/Steve's idea and fitted the 100mm flanges from the front 964 diffs and still used my beloved T2/T25 100mm VW CV's and axles.
So, these Lobro's were over 110 euro's each, even with my discount at the parts store...
Thats why I only bought two, not four :lmao:
Just swapping out the outers now before engine goes in, so much more easy.

[Steve Arndt]

http://www.duneguide.com/images/CV101-4.jpg

934 CV on left - 930 CV on right. 930 are big compare to T2. 934 are HUGE.

http://www.duneguide.com/sand_dune_tech_cv101.htm

[Wally]

Pity it doesn;t show dimensions of the CV outer diameters, but the read on assembling was good. I learned something new anyways, thanks!

[owdlvr]

Here is a link the the GKN catalog. http://www.rowland2.com/pdfs/cvdisc.pdf

I believe 930's are size 15 CV's and 934 are size 21. They have both plunging and fixed in this catalog.

-Dave

[Wally]

Here is a link the the GKN catalog. http://www.rowland2.com/pdfs/cvdisc.pdf

I believe 930's are size 15 CV's and 934 are size 21. They have both plunging and fixed in this catalog.

-Dave

Interesting! I see that T2 CV's are type 13 there and 100mm (99,7) OD.
930 is then type 15 with 108mm
934 would be type 21 and is 128mm (!)

The weight difference:
T2 : 1,4 kg
930: 1,8 kg
934: 3 kg (!!)

If I can keep the T2 CV's in one piece (and assuming we use type 174 in that catalog), that alone saves me almost 0,5 kg unsprung weight per wheel and almost 2kg total weight for the 4 of them.
Not to mention what you would drag along with 934 CV's...

These things add up fast.

[Steve Arndt]

I missed the details Wally. How are you running 930 and T2 on the same axle? The splines are different. I inquired years ago to Sway A Way if they would build me a set like that and they said no way.

[Wally]

I missed the details Wally. How are you running 930 and T2 on the same axle? The splines are different. I inquired years ago to Sway A Way if they would build me a set like that and they said no way.
I don't.. I run the front 964 flanges which have 100mm CV size and fit the G50 as a glove. So I still run 100mm on both sides, just with the simple VW spline.
The axles and CV's are still exactly the same as I ran them on the 915 :)

[Wally]

Engine finally in after I was able to lend a 930/G50 shaft to align the dual plates..

FYI, type 1, 915 and 930/G50 splines next to each other...Guess which is strongest ;)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Priseassen001.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Priseassen002.jpg~original

[dave forder]

Hi Wally,
You know what, I wish I had gone for the G50 box way back when the chassis was being done. We will wait and see. It is a hell of a lot of work to get everything out if I break something. I have got some real tasty pictures from John Maher of my engine but can't get them to upload onto the site. Any ideas?

[Wally]

I hear you mate..
Curieus to your engine! Just mail the pics to me and I'll upload then for you. I'll send you a PM with my email.
Greets,
Walter

PS I just installed the last bits of my rebuild engine. Hope to start it tomorrow evening and have it running this weekend.
I'll try to take some pics tomorrow as well.

[70Turbobug]

Wally, your G50 is the smallest of the G50´s correct? As far as outside dimensions.Which one is it exactly? Hope you get back on the road this weekend!

[Wally]

Wally, your G50 is the smallest of the G50´s correct? As far as outside dimensions.Which one is it exactly?

Smallest may not be the correct term here, it only has the short nose cone. Thats it. All two-wheel drive G50's have the same dimensions, except the turbo-G50's which have an even bigger crown ring.
Mine is a G50/01 ('88). The G50/00 ('87) also have the short nose cone. After that ('90 ->), the longer nose cones came into production.
As you may remember, I also had the bellhousing shortenend. Every little bit helps ;)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/InjectoraansluitingenT4done003.jpg~original

[70Turbobug]

Thanks for the info! Looking good! A new bov also? Can't wait for the next track video!
I'll see you in Spa!

[NO_H2O]

Getting close. Can't wait to see the next video.

[dub_crazee]

looks great - whens the next dyno day?

[Wally]

Been fighting sensor gremlins all day and finally after switching out the VR sensor, it started normally and even restarted hot..pfft.
I had to remodify a LOT of stuff I had changed because of the 1200T install. Things I even had forgot I changed... Anyways, hopefully I can do some tuning tomorrow.
Plan is still to try to do a Nurburgring trackday which is comning friday (!). Even if it runs ok-ish on time (whatever that may be), I hope I can still get on the list for the trackday. Fingers crossed.

I did need to add about 8% in the fuel map without load, so I am just as curieus as you guys if she makes more hp at the same boost now with the new cam.
There is a new dynoday end of september, but I think I will be on it a little sooner if everything stays in one piece.

[TSAF]

Wally everything will work out fine.

[Wally]

Wally everything will work out fine.

Your starting to be right: did the first real test drive yesterday and it drove just awesome! Car felt much more nimble and this smaller turbo seemed ready everytime. Cruising in 5th doing 75 mph and overtaking just by a mm more pedal is very cool. The bigger turbo needed noticebly more time for that.
Having full compression again because of straigth rods probably helped too :lmao:
The bigger cam with n/a LC of 108 degrees combined with the smaller turbo seems to work out very well so far. Hope it carries the distance in the rpm range later too.
Clutch is more heavy (stage 2-ish feel, I had stage 1), but very doable and the lighter rotating assembly makes for a rev happy, real sporty engine, despite the low static CR and being turbo :)
Love it so far!

[70Turbobug]

Sounds great Wally! You might not make more power,but maybe a better torque curve and more useable power? That would be much better on the track anyways.So looks like you will raising the bar once again...that´s great!

[Wally]

Just did another test drive at 1 bar boost and I am not too sure if I am not making more power. I usually get this scared (heart pounding in your throat when you keep your foot in it and car takes off) from 1.3 bar boost onwards...
I also had to add a LOT of fuel in the upper rpm ranges now as well, so not sure where this turbo runs out of breath, but at lower boost, I have a distinct feeling it now makes a lot more hp.

Also made a new rear apron-engine sealing plate:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/T4achterplaat003.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/T4achterplaat002.jpg~original

Soooo looking forward driving at the Ring again!

[70Turbobug]

Well if it doesn't scare the crap out of you it's not fast enough! Don't forget the HD video camera when you go the ring!

[70Turbobug]

One quick question: where did you get the degree decal for your pulley? From MSS? I have the same pulley and would like to have the timing marks/ degrees on it also.

[Wally]

Good eye!
I think I had one still lying around from Ahnendorp. Its 145mm and probably a US item (buckpack or similar) originally?

[vdubzack]

One quick question: where did you get the degree decal for your pulley? From MSS? I have the same pulley and would like to have the timing marks/ degrees on it also.

Gene Berg makes one that use. Is of really good quality, and easy to install.

[Wally]

Painted the front hood by myself with a rattle can and put a 25+ years decall on it on both sides :)
We must at least look good at the Ring if speed will be disappointing :lmao:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Oettinger001.jpg~original

[70Turbobug]

Ooooh a vintage sticker! I´ll bet there´s probably some cal-look geek that would pay a nice price for that :D

[TSAF]

Wally the monster looks great and you will have the time of your life. Just a question really. Is it possible for your intercooler to be tucked inside the engine space. I saw this http://www.turboboxer.de/ and I was really impressed because you cannot really tell just by looking at the car if it has a natural aspirated engine or a turbo monster in there.:cool:

[Wally]

Sure, but it will be less effective.
Functionality over form/looks and all that ;)

BTW the ring was great! Perfect weather and the 3.5 km straight was 'interesting' especially since its not flat at all. Combined with a good cross/head wind I had to limit speed to 200-205 km/h on the straight.
I now even more understand why car companies test their new models there. I now think I need/want more suspension work done 4sure.

Engine and car held up great again :-)
Can't find pictures from the day itself yet though. Hopefully later this week?

[70Turbobug]

The intercooler from turboboxer is a good contruction, but just as Wally pointed out it's not placed very well.Due to its construction though there's no other option really.It's missing a duct system where fresh air can pass through.The current set up in that position is subjected to heatsoak.There are electric fans also,however I don't believe they are very effective, because again, no or little fresh air is present in the engine bay.

[TSAF]

I understand I just like the normal hood. You cannot tell if its a turbo or not. I thought that the vents on the bodywork are enough for the intercooler. My bad!!

[Wally]

I understand I just like normal hood. You cannot tel if its turbo or not. I thought that the vents on the bodywork are enough for the intercooler. My bad!!

OTOH, Armin drives it everywhere, also on the track, hard! His combo obviously works well too.
If you like the stock looking appearence above everything else, that surely is the way to go. He runs waterinjection as well, so...
I just _think_ outboard works a little better still. I have no hard data to prove either, so take it for what its worth.

Armin's car and mine usually are the only two type 4 turbo cars that run on the track at full pace, so whatever your preference, just build it as there are still very few beetles running an aircooled turbo'd boxer of either type on the circuits at all...:(

[70Turbobug]

True Wally, however he doesn't have the performance you have,spool up is later (I presume,I've only ridden is his car.I rode in yours with the 1200 installed and comparing the dyno graphs).His set up works, but I am willing to bet not as well as yours.A comparison of intake temps would be interesting.
Armin's car and mine usually are the only two type 4 turbo cars that run on the track at full pace

Hopefully not for long! I'm working to have mine done next summer!

[Wally]

Hopefully not for long! I'm working to have mine done next summer!

That would be great man!

[70Turbobug]

Thanks Wally, I´m not missing too much.A good trans+clutch,header (looks to be a modified python),tires and a lot of small items.We´ll see how much money I can sneak past the wife ;) Next summer is my goal - I hope I can make it!

[TSAF]

That would be great a 3rd type 4 turbo in Europe's circuits!!!!

[Wally]

First pic available from last NS Trackday. Hope I can get it in a little better quality and a few more from her.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/NStrackday22-06-2012.jpg~original

[ricola]

Wally,
How's the car now with the smaller wheels and sticky tyres?
Rich

[Wally]

Wally,
How's the car now with the smaller wheels and sticky tyres?
Rich

Worked awesome! The tires haven't even slipped once, not a tiny bit of understeer. I could have gone faster, but was a bit carefull there as you might understand.
It feels nimbler with the smaller wheels, but that might have been the now more responsive engine as well.
Did the synchronisation today as I still hadn't even done that since it was running for the first time last week (just by ear). It does rev great now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GnIKChYmZM

[Wally]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/foto.jpg~original

Some testing at 23-24 psi showed the limit of the straight acn's pushrods for me now:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Krommestoterstang001.jpg~original

[TSAF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GnIKChYmZM

F...ck, I am at the office and I cannot pump up the volume on youtube:angry::angry:

[Wally]

Well, tbh, the sound was much better IRL then on the vid afterwards... so your not missing that much ;)

[TSAF]

Still I want to hear the monster

[Wally]

Still I want to hear the monster

Here you go mate, but be warned as I think all of these dyno movies start looking the same by now...this one is even particularly uneventfull..:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukslh2TMs4

Had some great 1/8 mi practice runs yesterday at a car event, but with official timing by the Dutch Hot Rod Association (DHRA), a subsidary of the NHRA ;)
Best was a 7.57 but with only a 60ft of 1.92 and I had to lift as the car went almost into the gates at 3/4 of the run...

The "burn-out" where they put me on the dry spot with one wheel (that didn;t help keeping the car straight..) :angry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZfNjq893hs

and two other runs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzpRd9BMuqU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpInP5iOHBI

I think I was fastest car of the weekend and the only bug :lmao:

[70Turbobug]

Congrats Wally! Nice runs!

[NO_H2O]

Sweet. Thanks for the videos.

[Wally]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/nbr-3594.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/nbr-2581.jpg~original

[70Turbobug]

Nice pics! How did it perform with the new turbo?

[Wally]

Quit well. Smaller turbo in combination with the new cam and light flywheel/clutch is very responsive, but generator wiring issues (my fault), some handling issues (loose steering joint I just found out) and lack of driver skill/experience didn;t make that track the ideal opportunity to fully experience the new lower-end powerband.
Coming friday is a trackday at the Assen circuit (famous for its TT event (motorcycles)) and we get lap timers issued there. I have adjusted the rear yellow Koni's almost full-in, reinstalled the front 400lbs springs and took care of the other issues. Plus I know my former best time from last year, so hopefully it stays dry weather and I can do a little better comparing ;-)

[volkdent]

Watching those drag videos, makes me shudder if someone was to hop the guardrail! Who's idea was it to plant trees next to a drag strip!!! At some point in the future some car is going to be cut in half by one of those trees! Good runs, you think any NS video will surface?

Jason

[Wally]

Its a poor excuse for a drag strip Jason, I agree. Good thing it was just 1/8 mile..

Today something completely different yet again: a proper trackday! Unfortunately it rained the whole day...
Nevertheless Nigel (2,7 EFI) and I had a good day as the wet track was good for just finding the tracktion limits :)

Tnx to AJ for making the vid (awesome for a phone!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMWhFd1iJo0

[70Turbobug]

That is good quality for a phone! Good sound too,except for the wind.Nice footage!

[Wally]

Did some aero upgrades:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/Sleuvenengaten002.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/Aerodynamica003.jpg

and from Gerrelt his awesome 'Ruf-style' A-piller 'raingutter wind deflectors':
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/Aerodynamica006.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/Aerodynamica007.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/Aerodynamica008.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/Aerodynamica005.jpg~original

[NO_H2O]

Cool stuff. I would like to know how the front end feels at speed after the mods.

[Wally]

Cool stuff. I would like to know how the front end feels at speed after the mods.

I understand. 'Unfortunately', I also will try to get a little (about 1 degree) extra caster from some adjustable top strut plates which John from www.mebejo.nl will try to make for me in the next two weeks. Plus a realignment to follow.
So, there will be two major changes that will influence straight line stability and the fender gills will be hard to judge on their own...

Sorry..:o

[70Turbobug]

The car will be quieter at high speed, especially with the rain gutter covers.That's a good indication that the aerodynamics is working.I don't think it will change the stability very much,but should allow a couple of extra Km/h top speed and as mentioned less aerodynamic noise.

[Wally]

..,but should allow a couple of extra Km/h top speed ...
Since I seriously want to try to run 10.99x at Santa Pod this year (1/2 september at VWAction), all those little things should help some ;)

[70Turbobug]

For sure! Wenn it comes down to dropping a 1/10 off your time, even a good dump in the morning helps!:D

[scardeep]

Front fender grills are just for airdinamics and better stability? i was thinking of better brake cooling...

You get more and more body mods. Some plans for running boards, mirrors, bumpers? easy weight savings are posiible there. But then you moving out away from original look.

[70Turbobug]

Front fender grills are just for airdinamics and better stability? i was thinking of better brake cooling...

Actually, the grills vent the air that the tire produces and the air that gets trapped in the fender well.Wally also has a spoiler and splitter and that helps minimizing air getting into the fender well and on the tires.At high speeds that trapped air can lighten the front end...

[Wally]

Yeah Mark, your already posted before me ;-)
Wrt the 'dump': I am so fanatical that I try to 'shave' 5 kg's from myself as well before Action! My wife was happily amazed and surprised I'd do that for racing, but not for my health LOL! I said you see racing is healthy, proved my point haha!

Front fender grills are just for airdinamics and better stability? i was thinking of better brake cooling...

For brake cooling (don't really need that with these brakes though), the vents would have to be on 'the other side' of the fender I think?
The fender vents are to lessen the air pressure build-up there. I think there is some pressure there, probably mostly from the fender end acting somewhat like a 'scoop' if you know what I mean?
Hoping this will reduce lift from pressure inside and therefore also lessening drag at the same time.

You get more and more body mods. Some plans for running boards, mirrors, bumpers? easy weight savings are posiible there. But then you moving out away from original look.
Hmm, yeah, your right but I will try to keep the original beetle look as much as I think is a good compromise versus performance.
Not sure my replica (thin) running board will be much of a weight saving, but if and when I do replace it, it should be the original look as much as possible.
The door mirrors and trim will definately stay, but I still have a Kerscher GFK front bumper I may try out for drag racing as the weight saving of that is considarable. The Kamai air dam will probably be easy to swap over temporarily (I hope), but for track/circuit driving the original front bumper weight is 'in the right place' so to speak and stronger. Maybe strength of the original steel bumper is important for the front spoilers (air dam, splitter) too, I dunno yet how critical that is.
Thats also why its an ongoing project I suppose ;)

[70Turbobug]

Yeah Mark, your already posted before me ;-)
Wrt the 'dump': I am so fanatical that I try to 'shave' 5 kg's from myself as well before Action! My wife was happily amazed and surprised I'd do that for racing, but not for my health LOL! I said you see racing is healthy, proved my point haha!

Oh man....I sure hope you are talking about fat tissue when you say "shave" :D
You can tell your wife not only is racing healthy but it improves your sex life aswell getting all excited about speed and plummeting lap times!
Why me so horny? Because Race Car! :D

[Wally]

LOL! Good one for www.becauseracecar.org :lmao:

[Wally]

My CNC-wizzard friend made a cool adjustable caster top strut bearing housing (what a word..) so I could finally set the caster equal left-right and give it some more at the same time :)
Had a full alignment afterwards and car is sooo ready for Spa and I am looking sooo forward to it!

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Adjustablecasterstruttop.jpg~original

[70Turbobug]

Nice!! That should improve grip and corner speed quite a bit! Isn't there something missing though? Nuts? Another plate?

[Wally]

Nice!! That should improve grip and corner speed quite a bit! Isn't there something missing though? Nuts? Another plate?
Nope, its just an other, simpler design just made for me by www.mebejo.nl
I only needed a small adjustability range (1cm which aquates to about 1 degree) to set left-right equal as I knew I wanted maximum setting in general anyways. With the small range and the bearing holder having the edge at the underside, only two small bolts are needed to prevent movement as all the car weight already is on the sliding part. The thread is in the alu plate itself which is from extremely strong alu (7075-something I believe).
Only downside is I need to lift the front at the alignment shop to loosen the bolts from the underside. I have a friendly alignment shop over here, so that was no problem ;)

[Wally]

Back from Spa-francorchamp and it was sooo cool to be there and even more to drive with all the german-and mostly pure race orientated bugs (and one T2!) on the track.

Since a speedo isn't there atm, just a quick reference of rpm-speed.
In 4th gear:
6000 tpm = 185 km/h (116 mph)
6500 tpm = 200 km/h (125 mph)
7000 tpm = 215 km/h (134 mph)
In 5th gear:
5500/5600 tpm = 220 km/u (137.5 mph)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEiwO_ZGVa0

Unfortunately I heard a weird noise after 40 minutes and in looking at the above video myself, you see the back pressure gauge not reacting anymore at about 30 minutes. I just checked and indeed, the hose has been blown off from the connection at cylinder no.1 exhaust header pipe and in hindsight probably causing a pretty good imbalance that took 10 minutes at WOT to take my main bearings out.
Drove home without problem though with still good oil pressure and even made good milage (25 mpg or 1 ltr per 10 km)
Today let off the oil and there it is indeed: nice shiny flakes of alu...:(

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Olieanalyse001.jpg

This sucks pretty good as I was just as exited to go to VW Action in 2 weeks as I was to go to Spa.
Hopefully I can have things repaired in time but I fear that that much bearing remains may have done more damage to other engine parts too. Its going open asap to determine total damage.
Two weeks and counting...

[judgie]

thats bad luck mate, hope you can get it sorted for Action. see you in a few weeks hopefully.

[NO_H2O]

That really sucks.

[vdubzack]

For all the power and use you put in you car, might some steel backed bearings be in order?

[Wally]

I think all engines should have steel backed bearings btw ;-).
Originally only the center mains are steel backed as you know and the Mahle bearings I ran have steel center main backed bearings.
Unfortunately, there isn't much choice either. You use what you can get. Only the first main (flywheel thrust) seems damaged and even though I ran 0.015mm (max factory), I think for circuit driving like I did (regularly 7K+) even a little more end play should be considered with the 'new' Mahle brazil bearings.
Everything else seems fine as the filter and the soft first bearing layers seem to have taken in most debris.
Cam looks unused still (Tool steel lifters) and rod journals are super smooth as well still.
Tomorrow crank will be inspected. Barrels have some scorings, but maybe a light hone can help some if they don;t go through the nikasil layer...

[volkdent]

Hope you get her buttoned back up in time!

[wrenchnride247]

Sorry to hear that Wally... you will come back better than every! (as you always do):)

[70Turbobug]

It was good to see you there Wally! I showed up just as you were on your last lap. Sorry to hear about your bearings! I really enjoyed the video! After about 17 minutes you discovered the racer in yourself and seemed to be pushing the Mythbuster harder than ever before! it is really,really fast! Ulrich Eckstein sells steel backed mains from Glyco (Glycodur in Europe),maybe he has a set in stock for you? You asked me about my mains...I looked at the box again,and there is no brand mentioned.IIRC though they were Kolbenschmidt from Brasil,then coated by Calico.I have a set of unused GOP (Gen O Parts Germany) mains in STD,center main is steel backed that you can have for free if you want.I had gotten them from Remmele.However the forward main that fits under the cam gear is oversized in outer diameter,it did not fit in my case.That´s why I didn´t use it and went with the mains I bought from Jake.

[dub_crazee]

great to see the car at spa wally - shame i didnt get to meet you! sorry to hear about the engine - fingers crossed for the crank to be ok!
spa was a fantastic show - probably the best ive been to!
good luck getting the motor back together for action
Deano

[Wally]

Thanks Deano. Pity indeed we didn;t run into each other, but its a huge site and easily to be at different locations. It was a busy saturday for me at that as well ;)
Crank is fine (no imbalance) and could be polished within 'loose race-spec' :lmao:
I could find new bearings and I am cleaning everything now. If I don't f*ck-up the assembly (this is not a 'normal' engine), I should be good to go on the boat with Clyde Berg and company to VW Action ;)
2 1/2 weeks and counting...

[dub_crazee]

that's great news! wish i could make it to action (especially as my bug will be on the road!)
have fun!

[ricola]

Glad things are looking up Wally, I'll definitely try and make it over to Action!

[Humble]

Luckily you caught everything early enough that no real damage was done, lucky! Hopefully it all goes back together smoothly in time to kick ass at the next event :)

btw, how much caster are you running on the front now?

[Wally]

btw, how much caster are you running on the front now?

The max I could get was still only between 3,5 and 4 degrees, which is still 2 degrees shy of my goal. I can't do anything more at the top of the strut though, so the rest must come from the bottom. There may be something in development that might help.
I was thinking maybe its the 944 Cup (M030) spindles that I'am running that give the unfavourable caster. A-arm pick-up point, strut mounting and the wheelbearing shaft are all in line with these. Maybe a stock spindle is different? :confused:
High speed (>125 mph or 200 km/h) changing directions was still a bit nervous as you might see from the vid here and there from my steering corrections, so its either more caster or I really need a wing with a bit more serious vertical side pods.
Apart from Thomas, who runs a very cool body extension as a wing (which would hinder my intercooler function I think), no other cars ran over 125 mph on the track as far as I know, so there is little comparison.
There is a good thread on the cal-look lounge about high speed and aero for beetles at the end of the 1/4 mile and the consensus seems to be that when approaching 125 mph, beetles get into aero trouble and get unstable. I'am starting to see the resemblence here with my own experiences more and more, so not sure more caster will help if its really aero related.

Would be cool to talk to you at Action 4sure Rich!

[Bogara_ZO]

Was nice to meet you Walter. Hope your car will be ready for the next challange!

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n112/Bogara_ZO/SPA%20-%20Bug%20Show%202012/IMG_0823.jpg~original

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n112/Bogara_ZO/SPA%20-%20Bug%20Show%202012/IMG_0824.jpg~original

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n112/Bogara_ZO/SPA%20-%20Bug%20Show%202012/IMG_0826.jpg~original

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n112/Bogara_ZO/SPA%20-%20Bug%20Show%202012/IMG_0827.jpg~original

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n112/Bogara_ZO/SPA%20-%20Bug%20Show%202012/IMG_0828.jpg~original

made it from this angle..."because race car" :)
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n112/Bogara_ZO/SPA%20-%20Bug%20Show%202012/IMG_0825.jpg~original

[Wally]

Likewise mate! Tnx for the pics :-)
Good luck with the nice score on the brakes you got at Spa!

[ricola]

Well done on your PB at the weekend Wally :)

Rich

[Wally]

Cheers Rich, was nice meeting you!

Here some vid's of my runs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxQKMJoPd9Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPxANl57W7E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlNtMRA1xlk

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/VW%20Action%202012/VWAction2012130.jpg

[NO_H2O]

Thanks for the vids Wally. Always good to watch you and your car in action.

[judgie]

good work on the PB and glad you all enjoyed the night racing.

[70Turbobug]

Getting close to that 10 Wally! Congratulations! Nice run!

[vdubzack]

Have you considered something like this?
http://tangerineracing.com/chassis.htm At the Bottom for the page is camber boxes for a Porsche 914. I installed them on a customers car and dont think they would be too much of a pain to mod to fit a Super. Crhris is a good person to talk to abuot this. But he is in the States.

[Wally]

Have you considered something like this?
http://tangerineracing.com/chassis.htm At the Bottom for the page is camber boxes for a Porsche 914. I installed them on a customers car and dont think they would be too much of a pain to mod to fit a Super. Crhris is a good person to talk to abuot this. But he is in the States.

No, but then again I also don't see how that would adress some of the things I see as 'upgradable' on my particular super? I don't have a camber issue nor would this be usable on my car to improve caster, seeing what I already have done up top for caster adjustment and what room there is left (none) between the tower reinforcements.

I know Chris rather well as far as oversees contacts go btw as I have purchased his tangerine exhaust 5 years ago. He is indeed a super nice guy and great fabricator and designer!

Next week ('Super-sunday') I am running a Time-Attack event here on the Zandvoort track. Very excited to see if I am able to improve my time there too :)

[Wally]

Some Time Attack action from last weeks sunday:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Fl2MdoBqB5I/UF26wvX7nwI/AAAAAAAA8pI/NhTzQbIZodo/s800/AutoMaxx%2520Super%2520Sunday%25202012%252060.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/TimeAttackZandvoort16-sept-2012_zpsd3bad278.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/TimeAttackZandvoort16-sept-2012Jordypicture_zpsdddb5913.jpg~original

I was 5th in my class of 31 cars during warm-up.
Unfortunately I was disqualified after 10/15 minutes for being 'too noisy'... (99dB vs limit of 92 dB apperently):o

[NO_H2O]

Noise limit on a race track?

[Steve C]

Noise limit on a race track?

We have that problem on most of our racetracks, new people move in the area and then complain about the noisy cars, they must also have relations that move next to airports and have the whinge about aircraft noise

[owdlvr]

Pretty much a world-wide racetrack problem...

[Wally]

Pretty much a world-wide racetrack problem...

Yep, it surprised me however as on regular track days there I've never been pulled off since I run a separate muffler for the external wastegate..
A 90 degree rerouting of the downpipe exit away from the noise measuring point will help some, but 7dB gap probably needs a second in-line muffler...