Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75

[Wally]

I thought it was best to keep a sort of project thread/blog-like posting of the updates on my german-style 1303 from model year '75.

It all started in 1991, when I wanted an original '75 model 1303, registered for the first time in my country, the Netherlands. Not many have been delivered from that model year over here: only 32 !

Upon arrival:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0002-1.jpg~original

I'll save you all 'the bad' pics, but it was very, very rotten. Largeluy due to the original sun-roof:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0006.jpg~original

Drill-out all bad parts :
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0014.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0015.jpg~original

and replace with new. Also added some sill and chassis strength:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0024.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0022.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0018.jpg~original

[NO_H2O]

I would like to do a 75 1303 someday. I have always liked the idea of a sunroof, sedan with r/p steering. Looks like you have carved that one down to the bone.

[wrenchnride247]

Cool history Wally. :)

[ricola]

I had a browse of your photobucket folder the other week when I was getting withdrawal symptoms, was a serious resto you did there!
Rich

[Wally]

It has been a 9 year restoration process before she was taxed and inspected again...
Of course I also made the 944-Cup suspension under there in that period and had to figure it out all by myself as when (1994) I did the entire suspension mod, nobody I knew of had done that (alu trailing arms and Cup-spindles) before.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0026.jpg~original

'After' pics:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0032.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0034.jpg~original

Also moving house, which also meant moving the car from the farmers barn to the garage I first had to build myself behind the 'new' house back then (1998):

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0035.jpg~original

Finally, first time out, painted and on its own wheels (early 2000):
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0037.jpg~original

Gotta love the scanner :)

[Wally]

I had a browse of your photobucket folder the other week when I was getting withdrawal symptoms, was a serious resto you did there!
Rich

Yes, you can say that for sure! Glad the resto is long behind me, but every now and then I am so glad I did it right back then.

So, first were the 16" rims from a 993 '94 model, then came the 17" BBS rims:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/32D027_original.jpg~original

and of course the current 18" :
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0038.jpg~original

[wrenchnride247]

Finally, first time out, painted and on its own wheels (early 2000):
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0037.jpg~original

Gotta love the scanner :)

Man! I didn't know you had 993's on your's before... that's what I'm running. Look's like it's going to be 9 years for mine to be on the road too (4 years and counting)

[Humble]

Wow, great progress pics. I don't think I could have finished restoring a pan and shell in such bad condition. I can barely finish the one I have in good condition :lmao:

[Wally]

Hey, the Stig has arrived :D
yeah, I agree, you'd have to be pretty motivated to work in a half-open shed and get there after work and keep going till late at night, then peddle back home...:rolleyes:

Anyways, the reason its called 'Mythbuster' is because all the myths about parts that would not work have been busted so many times, I lost count.
Then of course the familiar 'type 4's can't dragrace'; the '915 transmission are not suited for fast shifting', let alone be used in dragracing; the 1303's (supers) cannot dragrace and 'you cannot turbo a type 4' myths.. :D
All busted.
The next one is of a well respected GL builder and type 4 specialist in germany that said you can't run high compression ratios with the Oettinger alu cylinder. Busted. Putting a turbo on them would be witchcraft, but is exactly what I am doing. Worse: its a 103 bore with stock, non-welded heads.
Some say...they will leak n/a, let alone with boost, if the cylinder wall doesn't collapse first.
Those two are going to be busted pretty soon too I hope ;)

Speaking of which:
The turbo engine is almost ready. It already ran, but I didn't seal one of the plugs behind the flywheel, so I have some work ahead of me.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/turbomotor010.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/turbomotorvoortgangkoelinginject-1.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Kenrun008.jpg~original

I hope I can post a clip of it running leak-free soon!

[typ4boy]

That 911 fan will never work........











:lmao::lmao::lmao:;)

[Wally]

That 911 fan will never work........

Yeah, almost forget that one.
Also: it will rob a lot of power. Dyno showed otherwise...
Also: the horizontal fan will throw its belt... never happend ;)

[Sandeep]

Awesome pics Walter .... especially the ones dealing with your restoration. Just the motivation I need to continue with my rustoration :D

Looking forward to your video of the running motor and some dyno sheets :eek:

Sandeep

[Wally]

Thanks Sandeep!
I did deliberately put those horror pics up just for those how still have to do all the hard work and show you that my bug was once a 'basket case' too ;)

Especially for you I made a small vid of the first (well, second) start of the 2,2 turbo engine, partly finished. Its nothing special and one of many on yourtube of "I started my engine for the first time, hurrey" :lmao:
But you asked for it :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EANvmzSAqLc

To run her in, I did something 'terrible' and drove straight to the track day that was today :rolleyes:
It really was the first time the car stood on its own wheels for almost 3/4 of a year and the first time I could try-out the new gearbox (G50).
Let me tell you, the G50 shifts beautifully! Very light and easy. Bit long, but its a factory shifter after all.
Engine still had an oil leak behind the flywheel, although last night it seemed leak-free...probably therefore the clutch slipped some when the turbo cam in a bit sudden, but on the track today we (Marius has the blue oval with a tuned type 4 2.0 n/a engine) surprised many cars with our little bugs.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Events/Harc1742009006.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Events/Harc1742009013.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Events/Harc1742009014.jpg~original

[oasis]

Great thread. I always loved your cars. Nice to get an education along with it, too! ... plus I finally get to see the pics (work computer rejects sites like photobucket). Thanks!

[Sandeep]

The engine sounds mean ! How does the drive compare to the old 2.0 with the 915 ? With the bigger displacement, you should have more torque to turn the gears for the G50 (but you knew that already ) :p

Datalogs from the S60 ? :D How about some track video ?!?! I should really be working on my car instead of spending time on the computer ....

Sandeep

[kuleinc]

I love your car...

[Wally]

Thanks Oasis, Kulein ;)
The engine sounds mean ! How does the drive compare to the old 2.0 with the 915 ? With the bigger displacement, you should have more torque to turn the gears for the G50 (but you knew that already ) :p

First impression is that the cam may be a little large for this combo. I have more duration (163) and 114LC than the turbo webcam 119. Throttle respons with the stock cam was better still, but it does come in much harder when you fully depress the throttle, even at only 7 psi boost I had set it on.
Unfortunately then the clutch slips from the oil leak behind the flywheel, so the engine must come out again. Very frustrating...
The cam is therefore difficult to judge by now, but large LC´s may give less cylinder pressure and I am not sure if that is good yet. Like I noticed on STF, webcam has decreaed the LC´s of the Web 119... maybe they or their customers didn´t like the negatives over the advantages of running large LC´s... Thinking out loud, maybe large LC´s are better for engines that run high CR on turbo engines...
But maybe we´re going too deep here ;)

The CHT´s were very good btw. Nr. 3 showed just a tad over 350F when it was full boost hauling down the straight at the track. Oil didn´t even get over 85 degrees Celcius after half an hour full racing (I didn´t really spare the motor...).

Datalogs from the S60 ? :D How about some track video ?!?! I should really be working on my car instead of spending time on the computer ....

Sandeep
hey, you overasking here! Well, actually somebody (hey white german girl :p) promised to come and tape the track day, but she didn´t show up... :rolleyes:
Datalogs were boring again (IAT 21 degrees Celcius at a 15 degree day..) and I still havn´t been able to save a log while at the track. Since data is gathered continiously and I drove 2 hours back fron the track, previous data is autonmatically deleted. There is a on-off switch to be made, but I still havn´t gotton to that.
Long story short, nothing to show you ...:o You ´ll have to take my word for it ;)

[typ4boy]

Yeah, almost forget that one.
Also: it will rob a lot of power. Dyno showed otherwise...
Also: the horizontal fan will throw its belt... never happend ;)

Wally, the myth buster.:lmao::lmao:;)

[Wally]

This is what a track day does if your having fun...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Harc-effecten002.jpg~original

(the curved exhaust exit is because of noise restrictions...)

[Wally]

You won't believe this...

I have a slight clutch slipping problem if the turbo came in hard (and it was only 7 psi) on the track last friday.
Pulled the engine (again...) and found a dry bell housing behind the flywheel. :confused:

So I looked at the clutch disk more closely:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Koppelingsplaatspeling002.jpg~original

Indeed: the springs hit the flywheel and caused some part/not-engaging on one side...
I probably got punished for using a VW disk with a G50 center which also gives the G50 springs (?) (although Kennedy should have known this too I suppose)....who else is crazy enough to try this huh?
Problem probably easily solved by turning down the inner part of the flywheel a bit to clear the height

[Clatter]

Pulled the engine (again...) and found a dry bell housing behind the flywheel

WhooHoo! It's not a leaking cam plug!
(Or anything else that requires a complete engine teardown)

[Wally]

My thoughts exactly!

[petevw]

:eek: Still can't believe it looked like this:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303%20resto/Scannen0014.jpg~original

Good work Wally!

[kuleinc]

I can, cause mines been replaced from the windshield forward by PO, and both sections right below the "antenna" area are already getting rust wholes again, so I'm RIGHT ABOUT where wally was in that pic, except I haven't gotten mine apart yet...

Guess I should learn to weld and get a welder, seems worth it, I had pondered getting another body...

[Wally]

Finally, the engine and tranny are holding their fluids where they belong. After all was tried, the O-ring seal from the tranny needed to be replaced and one of the rear bellhousing plugs on the engine wasn't sealing...

But its all good now and boy, it is fun to drive again with the boost turned up a bit more :D It was only 7 psi at the track day and now with new oil, heads retorqued, valves adjusted and rings that have very probably seated (engine doesn't smoke at all), I tuned the PWM valve to give about 10-11 psi.
I am sure this engine will run over 6K and still make more power, at least that how it feels like.
It sure is scary though to feel/hear/see the boost come on when you're running a new engine. Today was a bank holiday over here and tomorrow everybody took the day off, so me too.
Got some more test 'n tune to carry out :driving:

[Wally]

Today I tried to get a bit above 10 psi, but the clutch is saying: "enough is enough, I am not transmitting more torque..." :(
Slipping at anything above 0,8 bar and you can smell it as well.
I will probably need to phone Kennedy on monday...

[ricola]

Let's face it, that's far from the worst problem you could have! :D

[Wally]

True, but I really was hoping to have the engine INSIDE the bug a bit longer this time...;)

A friend suggested a dual organic disk and floater plate set-up. Hope KEP makes that for my weird combo.

[ferfre007]

se nota que se trabajo de cero!! tiene un hermoso motor tipo4!!! excelente!!

[Wally]

....motor tipo4!!! excelente!!

That part I understand :)

Gracias!

[ferfre007]

One notices that you have donates to good work, doing these of zero!!!

[Wally]

Made a vacuum/boost box for all the pressure lines to connect to instead of all the 'T'- connections in the lines I had up untll now.
I hope it gives a better boost signal this way, which is important for the MAP sensor, fuel pressure regulator and also for the BOV.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/boost-box003.jpg~original

In the meantime, I have a 6-puck spring centered on the way from KEP (dual disk is a bit too much $$ for me at this moment) and the flywheel and pressure plate have been machined flat again. To get the diafragma fingers 'straight' (general consensus being that that is when the most torque can be transmitted), we had to machine the outer edge of the flywheel (where the pressure plate resides onto) some 1.5mm deeper than stock.
The ratio of machining depth to fingers moving is approx. 1,5 to 1.
So, 1.0 mm machining gave about 1.5mm finger movement with this pressure plate. Never thought it needed to be that much. I hope it works out as I have anticipated.
The 6-puck is equally thick as the organic one KEP said (8.0mm), so I hope it gets here on time so I can use it next saturday on our first local drag race meet of this year.

[Steve C]

Hi Wally

Looking good.

A few people I know ran boost boxes and things didn't work as well as would be expected, the extra volume slowed reaction to everything connected to it.

Where do you take your signal for your wastegate from? Been told by serious turbo tuners to take it after the throttle plate, that way it reacts to actual motor pressure not the pressure in the between the turbo & throttle plate.

[Wally]

Hi Wally

Looking good.

A few people I know ran boost boxes and things didn't work as well as would be expected, the extra volume slowed reaction to everything connected to it.

Well, I sure don't hope so; this seemed like the proper way to do it...

Where do you take your signal for your wastegate from? Been told by serious turbo tuners to take it after the throttle plate, that way it reacts to actual motor pressure not the pressure in the between the turbo & throttle plate.

I use the original pipe on the turbo itself for this. OEM its connected like this as well with the original internal waste-gate close by. Why would OEM do it that way if its better to connect WG under the throttle plate?
I would be happy to redirect, but its the first time I learn of this.

Thanks Steve,
Walter

[petevw]

Wally, ever try a solid center clutch disk?

Pete

[Wally]

Wally, ever try a solid center clutch disk?

Pete

Nope, not even ever any semi-metallic pad...

[Wally]

While waiting for the disk to arrive, I cut some polycarbonate ('lexan') sheets for the side windows.
I thought they were lighter than the 1,5kg I saved per side window (2,45 to 0,95kg), but its weight up high, so it will benefit more in the corners I suppose.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Ruitenpolycarbonaat002.jpg~original

[Wally]

As the 6-puck has not arrived yet and I need to run on sunday, I have reinstalled the old organic disk. Flywheel has been resurfaced and machined down so the pressure plate now has some more pre-load. Fingers are now perfectly horizontal. This should give some better holding power by itself and it did :D
Boost has again been tuned to 14.5 psi and oh boy what a rush once 3000 rpm gets passed :eek: :D

From the datalog I could see that at about 2850 rpm there is 0.5 bar or 7 psi boost and at 3500 rpm the full 14.5 psi is reached. The engine easily runs up towards 7000 rpm, but I want to stay before that for a little bit longer as I am not sure where max hp will be.
Coming saturday there is a local mobile rolling road dyno (more or less just across the street for me) so I will try to enter the car there.

I only ran the full boost in 2nd and 3rd as to not risk a premature clutch burn-out but that went well. So fingers crossed for saturday when the dyno run will be done in 4th.

Very curieus what it will get, providing the clutch holds :rolleyes:.

[chug_A_bug]

PLEASE TAKE VIDEO....:D

Chris.

[Sandeep]

I'm going to guess ~340ish HP at the F/W, ~290ish HP at the wheels :eek:

My 6 puk solid centre with Kennedy STG2 PP is rated to hold 341 ftlbs of torque. I'm not sure if Wally's clutch is up to the task though .... :D

Good Luck !!

Sandeep

[Wally]

I'm going to guess ~340ish HP at the F/W, ~290ish HP at the wheels :eek:

Sandeep

Nooo, its only set at 14,5 psi! I am already very pleased if I break 300 flywheel hp, which is about (15%) 260 RWHP.
Remember that I have a small-ish turbo (same size you had before with the VF39) that on the best of the best tuned subaru's STi's gets 300 rwhp at 20-22 psi.
So, 290 -ish hp at the wheels would really be the max for this turbo at its optimum boost level of that 20 psi...

Still, its always nice to talk numbers :D

There are some more dyno-days planned and depending on how it goes, I will try to do a 20 psi run somewhere.
On 14th June, there is the Budel meet where I have to defend my last years win of highest aircooled power on the mobile dyno. I only had the stock 2 liter in back then and the wastegate operating on its own internal spring (7 psi), so the 'win' only took 167 hp then :rolleyes:

The then next dyno-day is 30th of june (or 1 juli) at Steve's open house in Belgium, where there may be some OFF (outlaw flat four) members when they come to europe for a week of EBI3 and Hessisch-Oldendorf or whatever this meet of really old cars is called :lmao: Maybe a magazine will be there too to do a story on some street cars with different hp levels. Their current 4-car line-up only went to 200 hp, so I volunteered :rolleyes: Not sure if our schedules match, so we'll see.

I love dyno events even more than drag racing to be honest.

Oh, almost forgot, I bought a slightly (according to the PO) used Bosch Motorsport '044' EFI pump from ebay, which should keep the fuel-flow and -pressure on the safe side. It obviously works well. Also interseting is that the 660 cc Siemens injectors are now back to 1.35 ms opening time at idle. Never could get below 2 ms with Bosch injectors before...

PPS: I looked up the VF34 turbo: most say its a 35 lbs/min turbo. I don't know what that means, but it has its flow limits around 300 hp 'they' say :rolleyes:

[Jim]

We definitely MUST see a video from the dyno session!!!!

[Humble]

Good luck with the dyno, and +1 for video :D

You should be happy with the bosch 044 motorsport pump. I've got one in my car running 50psi and 750cc RC injectors. I also had one with my old setup and it ran flawlessly for 6 years. I prefer the 044 to a walbro any day because they're quieter and more reliable.

[Wally]

Good luck with the dyno, and +1 for video :D

Allright, allright, I'll ask a friend to hold the video button pressed for the run ;)


You should be happy with the bosch 044 motorsport pump. I've got one in my car running 50psi and 750cc RC injectors. I also had one with my old setup and it ran flawlessly for 6 years. I prefer the 044 to a walbro any day because they're quieter and more reliable.
I did read some walbro's break down too, so thats why the 044 indeed. And you are right about it being more quiet! This one is even more quiet than the bosch pump I had that was taken out of a porsche 911! Even though that one was made in germany and this one is made in tjecheslovakia (sp?) (by Bosch).
Thanks for the confirmation!

[Humble]

My roommate has a walbro pump in his rally car mounted in the trunk next to the fuel cell and when it's running it's as loud as the engine at idle, it really is that bad. I have mine mounted up front with rubber isolators and you can barely hear it when the motor is off, it's surprisingly quiet.

[Wally]

Allright, results are in and disappointing: same results as with the 2 ltr set-up! :confused:
235 RWHP and 270 FWHP (6K rpm) and the same-ish 255 ft.lbs or 350 Nm torque at a bit over 4K rpm at 14.5 psi:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/DynodagProfileenScoutingkamp003.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/DynodagProfileenScoutingkamp004.jpg~original

Driving onto the mobile dyno:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOYaWh5hFSk
Dynorun itself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSoyPv_QhNo

RWHP:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/VermogensgrafiekProfileruns001.jpg
Flywheel hp and torque:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/VermogensgrafiekProfileruns002.jpg

It was a beautifull morning and the engine ran great, but I think it may not have gotten the right amount of fresh air because of a closed deck lid and a mediocre Jamex air filter (not the big K&N one I had before).
Or the turbo is just not making enough air (too small). Next time with the proper K&N and an open deck lid on 14th June, lets see if it makes a difference ;)

[Sandeep]

:confused:

Where is the ECU reading reading the MAP from ? Under the throttle butterflies or right at the turbo outlet ? If you are reading right at the turbo outlet, the MAP will be more than under the butterflies on boost because of piping and intercooler losses.

I have the same manifold "box" as you but read my map after the butterfly .. I tried both locations and the map at the turbo was 2psi greater than after the butterfly .... looks like my intercooler/piping loss is 2psi :eek:

Still wondering why the HP and TQ are the same as your 2 litre :(

Sandeep

[petevw]

Same Dyno used for the other 2L run?

[Humble]

Don't be too down about the numbers until you do a little more digging. Were you datalogging the runs at all? Was there a compression change between the 2 engines? I'd leave the decklid on for dyno runs since it will give a more accurate "street" reading. I'm not sure that you're maxing the turbo yet even with a 2.2, I'd look at the cam, rockers and valves for lost hp.

Looks and sounds great in the video though, it sounds like it wants to keep going when you shut it down.

[NO_H2O]

Looks and sounds great. I'm sure with some tuning you will find some power. I know on our 1.9 turbo project, like Sandeep, we found that taking the MAP/boost control sample downstream of the throttle plate made a big difference in the boost we could make. We hope to get back to tuning that combo more this summer. Datalogging will be key to ringing it out. Keep at it.

[Wally]

Where is the ECU reading reading the MAP from ? Under the throttle butterflies or right at the turbo outlet ?
Sandeep

It reads from under the 4 butterflies of the TB's ;)

Ah, well, the 1/4 mile drag today went VERY well. Clutch holded out with the street tires, but with the slicks, it was too much and you could smell it (again).
I managed a 12.589/111 mph with the street tires and a 12.184 (no trap speed recorded) with the drag slicks. I am very happy with that :D
Especially as I was the fastest car of today (40 cars, 30 watercooled) :D
Had lots of fun today. Hopefully the guys made some pics I will link to later.

[Wally]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/KCDdragracetrainingsdag24mei001.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_04271.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_04281.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_04291.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_04301.jpg

My new rear window decall especially made for the large number of Civic participants :D
http://www.vwkever.com/evenementen/kscd_2009-05/photo/kscd_2009-05_001.jpg

[Steve C]

Hi Wally

Does the dyno have a "shootout mode"? Most dyno events use that so that you can compare apples with apples.

Some dyno queens get the operator to alter barometric pressure reading in shootout mode, a lower barometric pressure put in at higher barometric location will give a false high reading, the dyno makes a correction for higher altitude.

Maybe you can see this on your old dyno sheets and compare?

Steve

[Wally]

Thanks for thinking with me Steve!

Here's a vid of the first run still with the street tires (12.5):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvEH8Z6STWM&feature=channel_page

[Steve C]

Hi Wally

That run looks quicker than 12.5.

Love your VTEC...THIS sticker, saw one on a WRX the other day, fear no Evo.

Steve

[blitzvw]

Undoubtedly the nicest GermanLook car that I have ever seen!

[Wally]

Hi Wally

That run looks quicker than 12.5.

Love your VTEC...THIS sticker, saw one on a WRX the other day, fear no Evo.

Steve

Thanks! Here's the same run from another angle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg4p2WMqoHs&feature=channel
I had WAY too much fun there :)
Now that I have some things fixed (you learn every time your out running it)...can't wait to get to it again :D

New 6-puck:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/6-puckplaat001.jpg~original

[NO_H2O]

Great video. thanks. Keep us updated.

[Steve C]

Hi Wally

Very impressive. You don't have much room to stop at the end of the track, lucky your car is a German look and not a Cal look.

Steve

[kuleinc]

omg, I almost fell out of the chair there... LOL My brother is building a cal look, and I'm building a GL, so true...

[Wally]

Hi Wally

Very impressive. You don't have much room to stop at the end of the track, lucky your car is a German look and not a Cal look.

Steve

Thanks, yes good brakes get more and more important when you go faster through the traps. At speeds over 110 you notice it very well.
Some of the guys made some more cool pics there:

http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-QUHPMAYN.jpg

http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-YWEFGNCV.jpg

http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-DMGLNMLH.jpg

http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-XMDO6CJ7.jpg

http://www.vwkever.com/evenementen/kscd_2009-05/photo/kscd_2009-05_043.jpg

[ferfre007]

que emocion al ver estos Käfer!! increible!! unicos, hermosos!!

[Phat73VW]

Hey Wally who owns the Blue 1303 with Black rims( Porsche wheels maybe?) that was racing the same day? Are they on the GL forums? I would like to se some more pictures of it. I am debating weither or not to go the black rims route. :D

[Wally]

Not sure if he is, but that's Dean's car with a 2366cc type 4. Very fast as well.
Here is a pic of it, which you'll probably wanted to see as its sideways and you cab see the wheel well here:

http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/73263.jpg

[Phat73VW]

That's the one Wally thanks. That car was looking good on the track! As was yours :D You guy's have some sweet cars!!

[kuleinc]

I'm going the black rims route with my blue car... If it ever gets painted, and the rims ever find their way under the fenders... :rolleyes:

[NO_H2O]

Great pix Wally. Looks like a great track day was had by all.

[Wally]

Today I redid my intake tubing of the turbo inlet.
The turbo inlet itself is a 56mm outside diameter, but I only had 50mm silicon 90 degree tubing at the time I made the 2 ltr turbo engine and did forced that one on there...
I now finally found the time to get a 60mm bend 90 degrees and that fitted much more easy :) 57mm bends can be ordered, but 60mm was on stock and now the more readily available 60mm tubing fitted better.
So I got some drain-pipe 60mm tubing and 45 degree bends and started fabbing up the new intake:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/Inlaatturbo003.jpg~original

I think the cheap plastic even isolates the high radiant heat from the engine better than stainless or alu intake piping. Its also lighter than the previous 2" stainless pipe and the 20% larger intake diameter has a wopping 44% more intake area!
I dunno if this will make a huge difference (probably not at 14.5 psi), but I do know its better to have the intake tubing at least not smaller than the turbo inlet diameter.

[kuleinc]

What a HUGE difference...

[evilC]

Hi Wally,
If its standard pvc drainpipe then be aware it will start to soften at relatively low temperatures, generally around 60degC + at which point they will lose their structural integrity. I would guess the engine bay could easily get to those temps on a hot day, standing at idle after a hot run. It is quite common for turbos in the heat of battle to glow red hot so there is bound to be excess heat floating around. I would think that a stainless tube was the best material as stainless does not transfer heat comparitively that well. The luxury material would of course be CF!

Clive

[Wally]

Good info and post evilClive! ;)

I agree on the stainless (what I had), but i cannot find 60mm stainless tubing over here unfortunately and really wanted to open up the intake NOW!
Maybe some heat-wrap will keep things at a safe level a bit longer.
Alu is too well conducting imo and I cannot weld it together..hence the hard plastic. Most OEM manufactors also use some sort of plstic for intakes and what more under the hood afaik.

Tnx,
Walter

[evilC]

I would have thought that the stainless exhaust fabricators would have 60mm in stock? I was talking to a fabricator in Nottingham about my 500E that has a 65mm pipe in the mid section and there were no supply problems with that size. I have in the past has stainless exhaust pipes delivered mail order - is that an option?

Clive

[Wally]

Yes, it woud certainly be an option, but I 'tested' the drain pipe today on a track day and went pretty much all out and it never melted or collapsed or anything. Oil never even got hotter than 90 degrees Celcius!

Engine ran very well and it was a blast. Clip is form driving onto the track with the other participants:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQOSpMTuGM&feature=channel_page

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/HarcAssen7juni2009003.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/HarcAssen7juni2009001.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/HarcAssen7juni2009015.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/HarcAssen7juni2009017.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/HarcAssen7juni2009024.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/HarcAssen7juni2009026.jpg~original

Sorry for the overload of pics of my car...

[Steve C]

Wally

I love looking at pictures of you car, keep them coming.

Steve

[Scotts73SB]

Sorry for the overload of pics of my car...

Dont be sorry.. awesome pics and loved the car since day 1.. that blue one with the black wheels is sure mean lookin too! Awesome stuff!

[Wally]

Tnx Steve, Scott!
. that blue one with the black wheels is sure mean lookin too!
It sure went like stink too. Its pretty light and with the 103x71, 44IDF engine it was right on my tail for quite some time. Pity his fuel pump cavitated or s/th as it would not pump fuel after a few laps.
Quite a few people at the track were amazed how fast our bugs went. Priceless :D

[chug_A_bug]

Quite a few people at the track were amazed how fast our bugs went. Priceless :D

And that's why, I bet 90 % of us build these kinda cars... :D
I know I do:lmao:
Chris.

[Humble]

Lookin' good! We need more in car footage :D I love racing in a beetle for the fact that people don't expect it to be quick. I've picked up a couple of stickers for the back of my track car that play on that idea. The first says "Never get stuck behind a vw" and the second says "Pass me with a smile"

[evilC]

You lot haven't been watching Herbie films over the last three decades then???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clive

[Humble]

That's hollywood, I want the real mccoy!

[evilC]

Personally, I prefer the Wacky Racers. I see myself as a Dick Dastardly (or was it Muttley ??)

[michael86]

Hey Wally I found ya!:)
Going to follow the progress from here.

Michael(aka as Tikimadness):p

[Wally]

Made a printscreen of a testrun with an aim at 1.0 bar through the range.
Its not perfect yet, but it does show that I now have 'full' boost at 3400 rpm :D
The run was made in 4th gear from 2300 rpm onwards to just over 6k rpm (= appr.120 mph...), still tuning for fuel as this was the first time with an entirely new fuel map a bit changed timing and EBC map as well:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/1barrunBudel-map.jpg~original

As you can see, air intake temps are a bit higher than last time as well. Temps rose to 37C after a few WOT runs.

[Humble]

Looking pretty clean! Your air temps are a lot cooler than mine since I'm not running water injection at the moment. My temps hit 70-76C at 10psi :eek: and I'm totally jealous over full boost at 3400. Mine barely starts spooling by 3500, no low end for me. Does the software allow you to change graphs like AFR instead of lambda? What's your "water temp" actually measuring?

[Wally]

Looking pretty clean! Your air temps are a lot cooler than mine since I'm not running water injection at the moment. My temps hit 70-76C at 10psi :eek: and I'm totally jealous over full boost at 3400. Mine barely starts spooling by 3500, no low end for me. Does the software allow you to change graphs like AFR instead of lambda? What's your "water temp" actually measuring?

Yeah, I could reverse lambda an present AFR. Watertemperature is actually the oil temp on the bottom of the head. I only use it for warm-up and it shows usually a little hotter than the temp under in the sump, which I read with a seperate sensor and a gauge (VDO).
I only use a mercedes transmission cooler in the nose and even on the track (high rpm constantly), oil temp didn't rose over 90C, which even surprised me.

Tuning is everything :cool:

[Wally]

At our big national meeting today at Budel I went on the very same mobile rolling road dyno as a month ago and I tuned again for the same 14.7 psi or 1.0 bar boost:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/VermogensbankBudel2009021.jpg~original

Complete with a bit of flames from the exhaust...:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0PDByAqyjM
Thanks for the video Tiki!

Print-out above shows 288 hp at only 5561 rpm and 377 Nm (278 lbs.ft) at 4007 rpm corrected for transmission losses.
At the rear wheel print-out it shows I have 266 RWhp at 6177 rpm which sounds like a more credible rpm.
I need to look at that dip at 4500 rpm, but it may be intentionally as I withdrew some extra timing at what I thought to be the optimum torque point.

Anyhow, the tranny obviously looses very little hp, which is nice to know as well I suppose.
Very happy with the 20 RWHP addition I got with some optimization of some parts and a bit of extra tuning :D

We also had a little drag race today at our local meeting over about 175 meters, which was fun to do as well. Everything stayed in one piece, sun was shining, so all in all I had a fantastic day :)

[skywalker]

@ Budel:

http://airmannschaft.nl/site/gallery/pic.php?mode=large&pic_id=945

http://airmannschaft.nl/site/images/smilies/icon_thumbup.gif

[kuleinc]

wicked pic...

[Wally]

Tnx for the nice pic Luuk!
I hope to find some vid's of the drag-race finals as I managed quite a nice burn-out with that run if I say so myself :)

[evilC]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a NAG? What does the acronym stand for?

[Wally]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a NAG? What does the acronym stand for?

Huh? Where do you see this written Clive?

[evilC]

wicked pic...

Here! As part of Kuleinc signature that I took as part of the post - silly me!

[Wally]

Ah, I didn't even notice/read it..:o
Actually I dunno either what it stands for; we have to ask Kulein I suppose ;)

On topic :-) , here's two short vids of our 175meter strip...

Attempt to a burn-out, but then without the smoke...:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAIbrtrd3tk

Run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRauAaD540w

[kuleinc]

Its a local car club for aircooled VWs, Norcal Aircooled Group, NAG. They cater to old slow chrome cars, needless to say my car doesn't fit in there. The most important part of their cars are the little stick up plates they bolt to their bumpers, where I'm more concerned with going fast and decent handling. None of them would be caught dead in a 1302 or 1303...

[evilC]

Thanks Kulein. Thurst for knowledge satisfied!

Clive

[Wally]

Our only permanent drag strip in the Netherlands held a street legal shoot-out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxtxIsZsXf4

[kuleinc]

Wow, you stomped that guy, nice job!

[Wally]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/GroteFoto-8A4IBJE7.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/GroteFoto-3ZSJEKJD.jpg~original

[Steve C]

Hi

It looks like like your car is really getting it teeth into it, nose in the air back hunched down.

How are you finding the G50 ratios? Assuming they are stock.

Steve

[Wally]

Actually, I like the stock ratios just fine: The longer first is very nice to have with a torquey engine and I drive about 195 km/h at just over 6100 rpm, where my max hp is. In the quarter I don't reach that rpm in 4th .... yet :rolleyes: so I have some room for upgrades left.
Cruising 70mph (120 km/h) in 5th is about 3000 rpm, which is nice as well. Head temp is then 325-350F ;)
yeah, I like this gearbox mucho.

[kuleinc]

isn't 350 pretty hot, or is that acceptable?

[Wally]

That range at that speed with those rpm's is not just acceptable, its actually pretty nice.
Stock engines with stock cooling and trannies run 375F at 60 mph when all is well with the mixture in that stock engine...
The nice thing is that the given temps don't rise much at all when speed and load increases. Big difference with a stock engine...
I know these differences very well, as I run CHT sensors on both the 1303 and my daily type 4 with stock engine/cooling.

[kuleinc]

380 degrees scares me, the next thing I get for my car is a decent CHT, now that I have my oil temps under control with an external cooler.

[Clatter]

380 shouldn't scare you.
425 should...

it does me all the time...:D

[cookvw]

well... ive been waiting to get this answer over on the shoptalk forums. i was wanting to know what normal head temps where on a turbo'd t4, and what was too hott. thanks for the info! hey what head temp gauge you runnin?

[Wally]

I use VDO.

Burn-out at EBI-3 with Dyno Don commenting. Lets just say he didn't see that one comming :D
Spoke him later in the pits: cool guy for sure ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2D_kSGaWBI

[Wally]

Later run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IGG0RZQHsM

[Humble]

Lookin' good! You really dig in and take off, it's awesome to watch :) got any in car video?

[Wally]

Thanks, but take off is actually not that good there as I only could manage 2.1 sec. 60ft times on the prepped track. Street tires do NOT like prepped tracks for slicks. Clean raw tarmac is much better for street tires: I did a personal best of 1.894 60ft at the slalom track on the road the same day at EBI, so now I know ;)
Sorry, no in-car video (yet?).

[NO_H2O]

Nice stuff Wally. Looks like it is pulling good once you get hooked up. Keep the videos coming.

[Wally]

http://olafalbers.de/albums/europeanbugin3/MG_8061.jpg

http://olafalbers.de/albums/europeanbugin3/MG_8059.jpg

http://olafalbers.de/albums/europeanbugin3/MG_8062.jpg

Oh, the type 1 engined turbo car lost that race hehe..

[Wally]

This one is still from Drachten streetlegal race two weeks ago. Love this one very much:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/Zweiter/Streetlegal%20juni%202009/DSC_6146.jpg

[chug_A_bug]

Love the Pics :D

[Xellex]

great pics wally! Man, I wish I could have made it to the EBI this year...

[Wally]

Burn-out and run at EBI-3 against the turbo-type 1 at about 6:00 minutes into the video.
The whole vid is worth looking BTW!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnP-tsxpFkw&feature=channel

[kuleinc]

I don't like the VDO HT gauge at all, I think the delta digital one is much better? It has compensation for the signal wire to the gauge I believe, that the VDO unit lacks...

[speedy]

fab video wally,I hope to get over there in the next couple of years , just in the middle of house moving hell at the moment so the car has taken a back seat , but looks like a cool show all the same

Jon

[zeroaxe]

Undoubtedly the nicest GermanLook car that I have ever seen!

Pffffttt!!! You said that the other day too about another car! :D

[zeroaxe]

I use VDO.

Burn-out at EBI-3 with Dyno Don commenting. Lets just say he didn't see that one comming :D
Spoke him later in the pits: cool guy for sure ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2D_kSGaWBI

Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!


:lmao:OMG. That dude is so funny! By Sunday, he couldnt do it anymore!!!:lmao:

Got a wicked pic of him and "MR. Flat4" And an autograph of Dyno Don. Only afterwards I was like "You dumb idiot!!! Why didnt you just ask for "Mr. Flat4's" autograph as well!!!???" He was right there and not busy......

Just a shame I didnt pay attention before, otherwise I would've come up to say "Hi" (not that you would've known who I was :D I haven't bee naround as much as I wanted here lately :( )

[Wally]

Just a shame I didnt pay attention before, otherwise I would've come up to say "Hi" (not that you would've known who I was :D I haven't bee naround as much as I wanted here lately :( )
Hey 'zeroaxe',

It was nice to finally meet you at Spa last sunday! Pity I couldn't make it on saturday because sunday was mostly raining...

I only did one pacecar-following lap on the track. Hopefully with a rool-cage in next year I can do some 'free laps' :D

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/1-8093.jpg~original

[Wally]

There was a very empty highway road last evening, no cross-winds at all and I kept my foot down a bit longer this time: 219,6 km/h or 135.5 mph:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/RDWkeuring004.jpg~original

[blitzvw]

Pffffttt!!! You said that the other day too about another car! :D

Nooit man! Dit was nie ek nie!:angry:

[ricola]

How stable did it feel Wally?

[Wally]

How stable did it feel Wally?

Actually it was just fine, even without the much needed extra caster I still need to adress; I even had time to check the speedo :)
No wind, flat road also helps a great deal.

[Wally]

Just back from a 'last-minute' Ring visit. It was a great sunny day, not too busy and we had great fun. Did 4,5 lap today with a passenger!

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_6975.jpg~original

[NO_H2O]

Now that is a great shot. Sure wish I could run over to the ring take a lap or two.

[Wally]

Well, you could plan a holiday around a Nurburgring visit (like I did) :rolleyes: :D

Gonna bore you with some more shots I found on the web:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/158_6424.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/158_6425.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/158_6426.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/158_6427.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/158_7010.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/158_7044.jpg~original

[Wally]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/158_6304.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/158_6305.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/158_6306.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/158_6307.jpg

[Wally]

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z297/Michel4AGE/Nordschleife15082009/DSC_0572.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/DSC_0615.jpg~original

[Humble]

I love the pic of you leading the porsche through the carousel, great pics man!

[al_kaholik]

Wally - your car has made me wonder if I should ditch my widened wings and go with some wide and flared...

And the more that I look at it, the more I like the duck tail too.

Is your airdam a CSP one or a home drilled?

Al

[chug_A_bug]

Love the Pics have it set has my computer Screen background :)

Chris.

[Wally]

Tnx guys :)
Is your airdam a CSP one or a home drilled?

Al

Its an original ('NOS') kamai and I home-drilled it, yes ;)

[Steve C]

Hi Wally

Great photos. What is the smoke haze around the car from?

What sort of speeds do you get down the long straight before start/finish line?

Steve

[Wally]

What is the smoke haze around the car from?

Its the right front tire rubbing inside the fender...:o
I already ordered some coil-overs with adjustable lower spring perches.
Funny thing is, I never had that on any track or event I drove before. The Ring surely brings out any imperfections, even small ones. Running with all sorts of luggage in the front trunk and a passenger also helped squeeze down the bump stop beyond normal limits probably.

What sort of speeds do you get down the long straight before start/finish line?

Steve

As you may know just about after the last bridge crossing, your supposed to slow down for the gates at the start/finish/exit point and max speed signs are present, but I usually like to keep my foot down till right at the bridge where I cross at about 190 km/h or just under 120 mph. The ' straights' just after Hocheichen and after Aremberg are also very high speed parts. Car stability is essential there as 120 mph on a straight flat highway is soooo different then anywhere on the Ring... and the official straight passed start/finish is never possible to run full by due to the Touristenfahren start/finish halfway that straight. Pity though.

[evilC]

I love the pic of you leading the porsche through the carousel, great pics man!

And do you know I thought the Porsche was catching Wally! :lmao:;)

Great pictures Wally and a good write up.

Clive

[Steve C]

Hi

That explains the smoke. I suppose the speed limit on that straight is there for a reason, it would be really hard on brakes with possible failures at the end of that straight.

Ive only ever driven the "ring" on driving Sims.

Steve

[Wally]

Clive, that 993 WAS catching me ;) They were much faster than we were in the bug...

Some more pics I found from that day:

http://www.wheelshots.de/bgalery2/image.php?twg_album=Touristenfahrten+Nordschleife% 2F2009%2F2009_08_15&twg_show=touris20090815_1065.jpg

http://www.wheelshots.de/bgalery2/image.php?twg_album=Touristenfahrten+Nordschleife% 2F2009%2F2009_08_15&twg_show=touris20090815_1060.jpg

[alindeman1989]

how much wider your fenders? 4cm? 6cm?

[cookvw]

nice pics wally. keep up the good work man! i dream of getting to drive my "one day" german look car on the ring.... the price would be thru the roof to ship my car over thir, but IMO it would be well worth it!

[Wally]

Thanks Cook!
Yeah, shipping the entire car over would not be funny wrt costs..better catch a ride with one of us 'when your in the neighbourhood' :D

Lindeman: front +3cm, rear +7cm

[evilC]

Thanks Cook!
.........
Lindeman: front +3cm, rear +7cm

Wally, does this mean your track is about the same for both front and rear?

[Wally]

Wally, does this mean your track is about the same for both front and rear?

Doubtfull: the answer above was about fender width; track of the wheels does not necessarily follow the fender width ;)

I have the wide turbo alloy arms on the rear (+7,5cm??) and run 944T-M030 spindles up front plus a 21mm spacer on the front.
I say, my rear track is probably still (much) wider than front.

[Wally]

Went to VW Action last weekend! Absolutely fantastic!

More details to follow, but I ran a 12.05 with a 1.65 60ft :)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/MF4M1664.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/MF4M3363.jpg~original

[chug_A_bug]

Nice Wally...
Looks like you Hooked up well on the Last pic :)

Chris.

[MX67]

12:05? Good!

You should write "how to make Type4 turbo beast in 100 steps".

Base can be OG 2.0 litre engine...sorry for OT

[Wally]

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu40/JRVWJR2009/VW%20Action%202009/wwwvwbugcouk-VWACTION20091320.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu40/JRVWJR2009/VW%20Action%202009/wwwvwbugcouk-VWACTION20091321.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu40/JRVWJR2009/VW%20Action%202009/wwwvwbugcouk-VWACTION20091324.jpg

The 130 mph end speed is a fluke, but a cool one :-)

Vid of one of the runs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3E7GLLj4as


12:05? Good!

You should write "how to make Type4 turbo beast in 100 steps".

Base can be OG 2.0 litre engine...sorry for OT

Yes, the base can indeed be a stock-ish 914 2.0 as that engine had the same hp as the current all-worked-up 2.2ltr... turbo selcetion is therefore critical as well. Further its actually quite simple and no more than a 10-step process (and 5 year EFI-tuning experience :lmao:):
- rebuild heads on an otherwise good but stock 914 2.0 and just use better (type 1) valve springs (double ones or single with Ti retainers, your pick)
- install pauter rockers;
- install dry-sump system;
- install EFI system with large (50-55 lbs) injectors;
- install the largest intercooler you can find;
- make your own exhaust from something existing;
- hang turbo, make drain to sump extension
- make sure your tranny is strong enough;
- hang on and have load of fun!

Didn't even need 10 steps for that :D

[judgie]

was good to meet you over the weekend and glad you got some orsum runs in. great car.
cheers rob

[Wally]

Tnx Rob,
Was great to meet you too!

Pity no more supers were running...;)

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu40/JRVWJR2009/VW%20Action%202009/wwwvwbugcouk-VWACTION2009905.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_2514.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_2589.jpg

my 1303 on the A1303! Amazing shot by Niels :respect:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_2630.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_2528.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_2635.jpg

More pics of the VW-Action trip from Niels on www.airmighty.com

[cookvw]

dang wally... looks like a killer time! ya im using a lot of what you have done to your car on mine. also look for an update on my car here soon.

also a 12 second pass is AWSOME! congrats!

[evilC]

If the photo was taken 10m further on the the arrow would be pointing at the car!! (shame, you'll have to come back and do it again!) but its still a great photo.

Clive

[excello]

Haha, kind of like this.....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3526/3902955353_a9be1e6933_o.jpg

Looks like you're having a lot of fun with your car.

[evilC]

Exactly like that! Brilliant!! (I have noticed that the Dutch are travelling on the wrong side of the road{again}! lol I must try that when I'm next in Holland - oops)

Clive

[Wally]

Haha, kind of like this.....



Excellent dude! Thanks, its very well done. Amazing!

I hope you will be carefull Clive :D
but you know what they say: when in Rome.... ;-)

[Wally]

Got a smoking deal on a slightly used 'bigger turbo' :D
Hope it gets here in one piece soon...
Its not one of the usual turbo's that are being used though..

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1579/img5368n.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5743/img5366e.jpg

[fahrvergnugen]

Don't you have a bigger picture:eek:

Paul:;)

[Sandeep]

Judging by the size of that picture, it IS a big turbo !

GT3076R CHRA ? :rockon:

When is it being installed and when is the dyno booked ? :D

Sandeep

[Wally]

GT3076R CHRA ? :rockon:

Yep, I guess I have basically the same turbo as you then? :cool:
Said to have a 52 lbs compressorwheel...
When is it being installed and when is the dyno booked ? :D

Sandeep
Probably an over winter job and fitment is likely to be not as easy as I anticipate (as usual..)

http://photo.korteweg.nu/ishow.php?img=circuits/nordschleife/2009-09-18/IMG_2791.JPG

[Wally]

The Blouch DOM3 (or GT30R if you like) is underway and going very well. Almost too well...
Getting the right orientation for the install under the bug meant disassembly. Always scary as you don't know the part and taken apart a perfectly fine almost new part is somewhat counterintuitive..(well...:rolleyes::lmao:)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/BlouchDOM3001.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/BlouchDOM3installatie002.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/BlouchDOM3installatie003.jpg~original

Here you can see that the intake is just passing the cupstrebe and the tranny/starter. The wastegate even has more room on this one, but one of the alu threads for fixating it to the housing is almost stripped...Have to wait and see if it holds.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/BlouchDOM3installatie004.jpg~original

So, the IHI VF34 is now for sale ;-)

[volkdent]

Nice find, I see lots of power in your future!!! How do you think this one will stack up against your current one for lag?

Jason

[kuleinc]

Its a 2.2L it should be pretty wicked, I'm guessing 3K to 3500 for spool start time... I think a GT30R has ball bearings...

[Wally]

How do you think this one will stack up against your current one for lag?

Jason

Ah, yes, good question, which I wonder myself also. Actually, I would ideally have wanted the GT3071R for even a little lesser lag, but this one came along..

Kulein: the former IHI VF34 had ball bearings also! Theoretically spool should be (much) later, but in reality I think it will not make that much of a difference. A little later spool is not neccessarily a bad thing! I actually like spool to be a little later so your not on (back)pressure all the time on the highway and overall back pressure (=high EGT) is less.

About 1 bar boost (14.5 psi) at 3800-ish rpm would be excellent for me. Right now I had 1 bar at 3300/3400 rpm in 4th. The old turbo had a nicer (for me personally that is) spool on the 2 liter.
Purely track driving, spool of the VF34 was better on the 2,2 I think. In 3rd coming out of a corner at 3000-3200 rpm, spool came in really nicely an drelatively gentle. That last thing is cam and tune (wastegate ecu control) dependant as well of course.

[effvee]

Hi Walter, please be very careful of the waste gate location. If somethng hit it/bend it, you could over boost.

[kuleinc]

I think a lot of people use the GT30Rs here for 2.0 - 2.2L engines, with good results, but these aren't Aircooled VW engines, so who knows...

[evilC]

Hi Walter, please be very careful of the waste gate location. If somethng hit it/bend it, you could over boost.

Heat on the outer CV could also be a problem especially when stationary after a power run and its glowing red hot:angry:. You could kill two birds with a heat/impact shield over the waste gate and exhaust side of the turbo.

Clive

[70Turbobug]

Fantastic reading! Great pics,great vids,great car and a great guy! The continuous improvements made to the car over the years is amazing.Keep the news coming Wally! All the best! Hopefully I´ll see you at the track next year!

Mark

[Sandeep]

Great looking (re) install :D. I would not worry about the closeness of the turbine to the outer CV as I have my turbo installed in the same location with no issues.

My exhaust pipe was actually 19mm away from the inner sidewall of the rear passenger tire and no problems after some hard runs and then sitting. The cooling airflow in that location is a bonus ;)

Looking forward to the upcoming performance reports :cool:

Sandeep

[Sandeep]

Fantastic reading! Great pics,great vids,great car and a great guy! The continuous improvements made to the car over the years is amazing.Keep the news coming Wally! All the best! Hopefully I´ll see you at the track next year!

Mark

Nice to "see" you here as well Mark :)

Sandeep

[Wally]

Nice to "see" you here as well Mark :)

Sandeep

Ditto! although I dunno about that 'great guy' :lmao:
CU around Mark! And as a german, the - look should appeal to you :D

[70Turbobug]

:lmao: Thanks guys - it´s good to be here! I was registered here before but I had forgotten my password and my nick aswell:o ....getting old I guess.
It´s good to see that the GT3076 fits in that location.I have a GT3071R which is imho a little smaller in diameter at the compressor housing.Just waiting now for my parts to get back from balancing,then I can finally put the engine together.

[Wally]

New turbo has been started and run for the first time! Whoaha! I like this turbo already :D
This was just on the internal wastegate without WI and without any additional tuning, but already is clear that this 50% more flowing turbo only gave a 100 rpm later spool to make 1 bar boost :cool:
Proof:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/DOM3boostlog.jpg~original

It also holds its boost better and the internal wastegate doesn't creep (yet) as is shown by the steady boost line.
BTW: 200 MAP is 1 bar boost above ambient (=100). The wastegate boost goes on to about 1,15 bar boost (~17 psi).

[kuleinc]

That is awesome, good job picking a better turbo out for minimal increase in lag!

[70Turbobug]

Even without further tuning that is quite an improvement! My guess is that your intake temps are also lower due to the better effeiciency of this turbo.How much boost do you intend to run?

[Wally]

Even without further tuning that is quite an improvement! My guess is that your intake temps are also lower due to the better effeiciency of this turbo.

Intake air temp is also in the graph: ' AIR' Its in Celcius and outside temp was about 12 degrees Celcius. IAT started at 14 Celcius and climbed to 18 Celcius during that WOT run. But I have a slow Bosch sensor and its probably not showing the fast increase accurately.
The info is all there in the log though ;)

EDIT: does everybody 'get' the log? (in what you see?). The log adds data and therefore puts new info at the left in front of what was already there, so you need to watch it in such that the car runs from the right hand side to the left. Boost and INJ% (= IDC) rise when I floor it and throttle gets over 90% (100%=WOT). The x-axis is in seconds (time), so the log part you see here is from about 7 minutes ago after I shut it down back home. /EDIT

Do you also see the IDC (injector duty cycle) climb to over 80% at the end of the run at about 6000 rpm? I am a little (too) rich maybe so a little gain in IDC room can probably be made, but I am running out of injector pretty soon (again...)

How much boost do you intend to run?
I hope to get to 1,35 bar, which is about 20 psi.
But how much boost you can run is not always that decisive on making power: Case in point: I needed to take out a lot of timing with the smaller turbine of the IHI turbo (which choked on my engine I can now probably safely conclude).
Depending how much timing I can bring back (which is dancing with the devil as well), will determine more how much more power I will be able make. I f you can run a fair amount of boost AND you don't have to retard timing a lot, then that says something about the efficiency of the combo. At least, that is my experience so far ;)
I think I am going to make an apppointment with the dyno already :-))

[70Turbobug]

Ahh now I see the air temp - thanks!

then that says something about the efficiency of the combo.

That is the reason I was asking.I´m anxious to see how much you can add without detonation.Myth has it,that a larger bore is more prone to detonation.So another myth to be busted! :D Inlet temp plays a key role for that,which also dictates how far you advance your timing and where in your rpm band your max boost will start.
What is the MB (Lambda?) and PM (Timing?) on the vertical line in the graph mean?

[Sandeep]

Great to see the new turbo is working for you, and thanks for the clarification on how to read the logs.

I've copied the image to my desktop so I can review it in detail and then ask some questions :lmao: What size are your injectors again ? I'm now thinking my 57 LB/hr (599cc/min) are now too small :(

Sandeep

[Wally]

Some of the abbriviations fell away because I put the line exactly in the spot where 1 bar boost has been reached, so you all could see what the sensors read there, especially the rpm, which makes a nice bridge tou your q.:
What is the MB (Lambda?) and PM (Timing?) on the vertical line in the graph mean?

MB is the remnent of LAMB ;)
and PM the remains of RPM ;);)

so hopefully you now see that 202 (1,02 bar boost) is reached at 3535 RPM :D

[Wally]

Great to see the new turbo is working for you, and thanks for the clarification on how to read the logs.

I've copied the image to my desktop so I can review it in detail and then ask some questions :lmao: What size are your injectors again ? I'm now thinking my 57 LB/hr (599cc/min) are now too small :(

Sandeep
Your very welcome to it :)
I now run the 60 or 63 lbs Siemens injectors. Said to be 660 cc/min at 3 bar or 45psi fuelpressure, but I have upped the fuel press. in the meantime to 3,5 bar.

Rolling road dyno is booked for saturday morning early. Little bit too soon, but later wasn't possible or too late for me...
I hope I can get the boost regulation dialed in again on time and tune for it. Will be stressed for time, but very curieus what she will do on the dyno.

BTW If you indeed study the plot closely, you can see that at around 5800-6000 rpm, the lambda gets a little higher for half a second and that the closed-loop immediately corrects this by adding fuel, which makes the IDC go up there at almost that same very instant! The Bosch/Innovate are very quick to react and the DTA closed loop function does too. It all shows in that very spot. I have now added some more lambda filter, so that will smoothen the curve a bit more I hope and relex the closed loop corrections a bit ;-)

[Wally]

Myth has it,that a larger bore is more prone to detonation.So another myth to be busted! :D

I guess I busted that myth too then :D

Result: 350 hp! at 6500 rpm with close to 300 hp at the rear wheels :D:D:D

Torque: max at 420Nm or 310 ft.lbs at 5200 rpm.

I fiddled somewhat with fuel correction and look what I did in the other run, but up top we made some gains (just 10 hp):

Flywheel hp and torque of both runs:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/DynorunHRengineering24okt09005.jpg

Rear wheel hp:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Motoren/DynorunHRengineering24okt09007.jpg

[Wally]

Video of the run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nljeNyH07Cs

[chug_A_bug]

WAY TO GO!!!!

Chris.

[vdubzack]

MMMMMMMMMM... I Can't stop drooling.
Do you have extra head studs on your engine for the boost?

[vwdreaming]

sweet

:notworthy:

[wrenchnride247]

Great job Wally!! :goodjob:

[NO_H2O]

Way to lay it down Wally. Very nice numbers.

[Wally]

Do you have extra head studs on your engine for the boost?

Nope, just good ones (ARP) but it only has 16 psi at 6000-6500, so its not excessive boost that created these hp numbers ;)
And on a 103mm bore, which is said to not even seal in n/a aplications...

And cast alu cylinders, stock VW type4 crank and stock rods.

I count at least another 3 myths busted :D

[chug_A_bug]

that ROCKS Wally :)

Chris.

[70Turbobug]

Congrats Wally! Awesome results! It just keeps getting better! Torque just shoots straight up 420NM and only 16psi - fantastic!

[vdubzack]

I count at least another 3 myths busted :D[/QUOTE]
I wonder what my 2.8 build would put out turbo'ed?Hmmmm.

[Humble]

Good looking numbers! hows the seat of the pants feel between the different turbos, any noticable difference besides lag?

[Sandeep]

Awesome #'s Wally !

Congratulations on your 350hp aircooled daily driver :D

Sandeep

[Wally]

Good looking numbers! hows the seat of the pants feel between the different turbos, any noticable difference besides lag?
Funny thing is, there is just 100-150 rpm lag difference! So its hardly felt in real world conditions.

I overlaid the two dyno plots and this turbo is about the same down low, but just keeps pulling more (more torque) from 4500 rpm to 6500 rpm, while the former turbo did not make more power after 6000 rpm.
But I only did two evenings road'tuning' with it, that was it. So there's probably a little more in it I suspect (but not that much) ;)

[Wally]

Awesome #'s Wally !

Congratulations on your 350hp aircooled street/track driven beetle :D

Sandeep

You got that right Sandeep!! We don't need no stinking watercooled PEEEEEP to make serious powerrrrr :D :lmao:

[kuleinc]

When you say your car is daily driven are we talking like a 40 mile round trip to work 5 days a week or its just street legal?

[Wally]

When you say your car is daily driven are we talking like a 40 mile round trip to work 5 days a week or its just street legal?
I didn't say and never said that its daily driven... its not ;)

Its also not 'just' street legal. It has the (turbo) power on the official vehicles papers! Furthermore I do track days, runs several laps Nurburgring (15 miles for just 1 lap) and drive to all european drag day events on its own wheels and in germany at sustained speeds of well over 100 mph on the autobahn.
So the car has a worse life than when it would be daily driven ;)

[kuleinc]

I know you never said it was a DD, I just wanted clarification on how driveable it is, off the track, seems its very much so...

[Wally]

Ah, yes, its remarkably drivable: I can drive in 3rd gear 1100-1200 rpm and power on without hesitation.
That's a bit of EFI tuning as well though I must confess ;)

[kuleinc]

I'm STILL getting together all my EFI bits, and I can't wait to get that kind of driveabillity, my dual kads are the suck... but they were always a stop gap solution until I got the EFI together...

I SO badly want to open the case up do some oil mods, and make the engine bigger...

You're car has always been one of my favorites!

[petevw]

Sweet, 350hp. :goodjob:

[Wally]

Just found again the dynorun with the old turbo at Budel, june 2009.

Small flames out the exhaust at 1:08 :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0PDByAqyjM

[big daddy]

Wicked, great work Wally you should be closer to Canada........

[chug_A_bug]

Wicked, great work Wally you should be closer to Canada........

LOVE IT.... I'm with daddy
if you want a bigger one then you should put a Coil and a Spark plug in the tailpipe and hook it up you would get a HUGE flame lol

Chris.

[Wally]

Love all your reactions!

Found a vid of a very fast dutch street-legal dragracer with an Opel Speedster, which I ran 'against' earlier this year. He runs with slicks in unlimited class. I am in a A/Street/Legal which require road legal threaded tires.

In the run of this vid got a little too much smoke from the burn-out....opened the roof, but 'your not allowed to run with open roof'... I know dude, but can't you see the smoke thats blinding me? Maybe thats not safe to run with either huh? :lmao:
He had to laugh about it then as well fortunately ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXUP3sLSN4&feature=channel

[vwdreaming]

nice
im sure u said some where already. but what tires are u running they seem to hook up well

[Xellex]

Wally, excuse me for asking, but do you by any chance, have a spare trigger wheel like the one that you are using? Or maybe can have one more of those made? I'll pay for it :D
Oh, and nice vids, btw!

[Wally]

nice
im sure u said some where already. but what tires are u running they seem to hook up well

Its a semi-slick street/trackday tire in 245/35/18 size: Bridgestone SP Super Sport race, threadwear 60 (!), I really like them but they don't make those anymore.

Xellex: sorry, can't help you there..

[Wally]

Something to handle the upgraded power a bit better (I hope) through the corners: 944 M030 25.5mm torsion bars:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/NinoenM030bars003.jpg~original

[MX67]

Wally, nice job! :)

I hope those 25.5s will be OK, because I also bought them for my project. I guess, I'm waiting for the update about how they changed Your Bug, meaning driving feeling!

Regarding Your performance, those numbers looks serious. I believe most of us trust Your opinion on turbocharged Type 4 engine subject (I do, because I don't know anybody else who made engine "from schratch" with totaly simple parts, plus modern tehnology like FI and Turbo to get serious numbers). I'm wondering only one thing:

Considering Your today's knowledge, experience and abilities, how much Your engine costs? Roughly. Is it 3000 euros, 5000 euros, or what? I really trust You on this one, because I was thinking about STI (sorry people) because it costs me 2500 euros, has 300 HP and 350+ Nm.

Thank You!

Best regards from chap who said hello on Spa Franchorchamps at Le bug show :)

[70Turbobug]

2500 euros won´t get you far on an aircooled motor.Depending on what you can do yourself and how good your existing parts are and if you have a complete motor,you may be able to build a longblock without the fan assembly and throttlebodies for that.Fan and throttlebodies can cost up to 1600 Euros alone, a proper engine Management like DTA or KMS will run you another 1000 euros without the wire bundle.Megasquirt is another option and will be a bit cheaper.Proper headwork is pricey if you don´t have the means to do it yourself.Then you have the turbo,wastegate,bov,intercooler,hoses,fittings,etc .it adds up quickly...

[MX67]

2500 euros won´t get you far on an aircooled motor.Depending on what you can do yourself and how good your existing parts are and if you have a complete motor,you may be able to build a longblock without the fan assembly and throttlebodies for that.Fan and throttlebodies can cost up to 1600 Euros alone, a proper engine Management like DTA or KMS will run you another 1000 euros without the wire bundle.Megasquirt is another option and will be a bit cheaper.Proper headwork is pricey if you don´t have the means to do it yourself.Then you have the turbo,wastegate,bov,intercooler,hoses,fittings,etc .it adds up quickly...

This is the reason why I'm asking Wally to elaborate his engine. Because of price, I'm on the STI side, even if it is not old school. But Wally has some interesting cheap solutions that work well...;)

[Wally]

This is the reason why I'm asking Wally to elaborate his engine. Because of price, I'm on the STI side, even if it is not old school. But Wally has some interesting cheap solutions that work well...;)

Sorry mate, I may have used stock crank, rods, case, heads as a base, but there are no 'cheap' solutions to 350 hp aircooled and making it last on a track.
Just drag race, that would be much more easy and hence less expensive.
If you want to basterdize your car by using a japanese watercooled engine, be my guest. I am sure it will be much less expensive. If you think that is worth it, go right ahead.
My fun is to make an aircooled car fast and last. using a watercooled engine to make it fast is soooo easy, its no fun and no surprise for anybody..
To each his own I guess :rolleyes:
It was (and will be) nice to have met you anyways ;) Its all about FUN, nothing else you know :)

[MX67]

Sorry mate, I may have used stock crank, rods, case, heads as a base, but there are no 'cheap' solutions to 350 hp aircooled and making it last on a track.
Just drag race, that would be much more easy and hence less expensive.
If you want to basterdize your car by using a japanese watercooled engine, be my guest. I am sure it will be much less expensive. If you think that is worth it, go right ahead.
My fun is to make an aircooled car fast and last. using a watercooled engine to make it fast is soooo easy, its no fun and no surprise for anybody..
To each his own I guess :rolleyes:
It was (and will be) nice to have met you anyways ;) Its all about FUN, nothing else you know :)

Basterdise is a tough word. People from vintage scene think that making german lookers is also basterdizing. We all think it's not like that, right?

Subaru STI is a very similar engine to VW AC. They even work with Porsche on development of new parts/engines. But, ofcourse, it's not that cool as aircooled engine. We all know that.

My point: the only thing that somebody can basterdize on their Bug is badly engineer it. Good engineering is good engineering. No matter is it aircooled or else.

I really admire Your car. I didn't said it's made of cheap parts. I just compare it with Remmele, MassIVe Type4 and that kind of stuff. Looking at their performance/price ratio, Your engine is - cheap. In no offensive meaning, sorry if You took that wrong...

This is why I ask how much Your engine costs with your knowledge and skills.

[Wally]

Yes, I know mate; I just feel it a shame to put a watercooled engine in it for all the simple reasons I just mentioned. I'd rather run a nice solid type 1 than a jap watercooler.
But thats entirely my take on what I like. No offense and thanks for the kind words on my engine.
Make no mistake though, its not cheap at all, but mainly because I 'overdo' things internally.
There IS a reason it runs so cool and stays in one piece, but maybe it wasn't neccesary what I have all done. I probably overdid some parts, which made it more expensive than nessesary. I dunno, but I have little room for constant failures to find out if...

Thanks,
Walter

Edit: to (not) answer your question anbout costs: I am sure you can (and probably have) add up parts cost for a n/a type 4 in a bug. Even doing that you must have noticed that even a tuned type 1 is not much less expensive (you can hardly use the word 'cheap' with these hobbies) when done right than a second hand suby engine.
Not much point trying to compare that. Even then, you still will have spend a very decent sum of money and a **** load of work after your suby engine fits, runs and cools well and you still have a jap watercooled engine in your bug after all that... I dunno, it just doesn't ever seem justified im(h)o. But hey, since you asked me ;-)
But in all honesty, you did not really think I went to the trouble to keep account of all costs over all these years of executing my hobby did you?

[70Turbobug]

Wally is absolutely right! The subaru engine is a good engine no doubt.However,why are they so cheap? Usually they have around 200.000Km on them with unknown history.Then,people slap on a turbo and if they are lucky it will last a couple of years.But it´s still a 200TKM engine that can break any second as any other engine can.Rebuilding a subaru isn´t cheap either and will run you about the same price as a type 4 if not more.Jap parts are usually expensive.You can take a stock type 4 refresh/rebuild it and turbocharge it with fairly low budget.So let´s say around 5-6K Euros for everything engine related.for that,even though the engine is basically stock,maybe some light port work and of course stiffer springs you can have fun and be reliable and can make around 250HP that will last,just keep the boost down to a max of 15psi=1 bar.Good tuning and mapping is crucial - that´s why Wally makes the power and reliability he has.If you are looking for the power that Wally has,there´s more to it and it´s the bazillion little things that makes it expensive.Wally also has some exclusive parts like the Oettinger cylinders that have become very rare.

[MX67]

Wally is absolutely right! The subaru engine is a good engine no doubt.However,why are they so cheap? Usually they have around 200.000Km on them with unknown history.Then,people slap on a turbo and if they are lucky it will last a couple of years.But it´s still a 200TKM engine that can break any second as any other engine can.Rebuilding a subaru isn´t cheap either and will run you about the same price as a type 4 if not more.Jap parts are usually expensive.You can take a stock type 4 refresh/rebuild it and turbocharge it with fairly low budget.So let´s say around 5-6K Euros for everything engine related.for that,even though the engine is basically stock,maybe some light port work and of course stiffer springs you can have fun and be reliable and can make around 250HP that will last,just keep the boost down to a max of 15psi=1 bar.Good tuning and mapping is crucial - that´s why Wally makes the power and reliability he has.If you are looking for the power that Wally has,there´s more to it and it´s the bazillion little things that makes it expensive.Wally also has some exclusive parts like the Oettinger cylinders that have become very rare.

I could only partially agree with You because STI reconditioned engine costs 2500 euros.

Add exhaust and pipes, wires, etc, etc., and You're on 3500.

If I could make reliable 200 HP Type4 for 3500 euros, I'll go for it!

I have good 2.0 T4 engine sitting in the garage and waiting... :rolleyes:

[Wally]

I could only partially agree with You because STI reconditioned engine costs 2500 euros.

Add exhaust and pipes, wires, etc, etc., and You're on 3500.

If I could make reliable 200 HP Type4 for 3500 euros, I'll go for it!

I have good 2.0 T4 engine sitting in the garage and waiting... :rolleyes:

So you can buy all the parts to adapt a STi engine for just 1000? Adapter flywheel, clutch parts, special exhaust, lowered alu sump, radiator, fans, coolent lines, watertank, several cut-off disks to hack up your rear end to position the double cams etc etc? Tell me your source for all these cheap parts :rolleyes:
We could argue all day about costs and if costs are more important than having an aircooled motor in your VW or of the other above considerations I and others have mentioned, then any watercooled 'thing' would usually be less expensive.

So please get your suby engine in there and stop talking about it!
Are we now done about that subject?

[Jim]

I'm in the dark side(that's they call the subaru engine in a beetle) but my opinion is that both sides have several good reasons to support their engine build, but there is no need each of the two sides try to convience the other one.
Wally has spend a good amount of euros in order to keep alive the character of the aircooled engine and some other people like me, they decide to proceed with something alternative but still boxer.

It always has to do with money and personal believes.

..........and dont forget..... we are all VW family and everybody does what he does!

[MX67]

Wally, SMR reconditioned engine costs 1200 euros. Rest is new turbo and injectors, other parts used. That's "new" engine, You'll agree.

My source for cheap Subaru parts is SMR engines in UK, and Subarubreakers. But I agree. No more that subject.

Tell me what I can do with 3500 euros on my Type4. I'm asking You because you've gone far away in this aircooled world. I allready have 915 box, alu arms, front Alcon race discs 305 mm with Brembo 4-pot calipers, and Bilstein's on 25.5 sways rear and standard front beam. Even 4500 euros for the engine is OK if I can keep it old school.

I want fast road car. I don't care about track, because I do that too often in other cars. Fast, reliable grand tourer is what I want to make.

And, above all, thank You for making one of the most impressive Type 4 engines. Now tell me (because there is obvious reason I'm asking You), how would You spend 4500 euros on Type 4 engine and what it could make?

Break the myth with 4500 euros worth of parts...
;)

[Wally]

I agree with Jim, its all about the FUN and always should be ;)

I also hate to talk about costs involded as you may have noticed and that is NOT because I have unlimited budget, far, far from that.
I know people that use 1500 euros and make a 300 hp turbo engine in a bug and I know people that spend 20.000 euros and realize 250 hp...
See what I mean?

So, sorry MX, but I am not gonna write you a prescription how to build an engine and what I think the costs are per item.
I let everybody see what I do and use and even why, but thats it. Sorry...

Now please, no more talk about what it costs, because it is sooo different for each and everyone of us.

[70Turbobug]

Everybody has to find their own method of doing things.It´s the variety of this that makes it interesting and see what others have done.Regardless of budget.Creativity and the results thereof is what it´s about.Some people can build a low budget high HP motor and make it last,others can´t.It´s knowing what you can get a way with and what is needed.This really applies to the aircooled engine.A list of parts and prices is only good use if one has the craftsmanship to make it work.Like I said,you can take a stock type 4,turbocharge it and get 200 reliable HP if you know what you´re doing.Precision tuning/mapping is the key.Wally came to his results due to years of constant evolution and trial and error.

[Wally]

Well said Mark!

[Wally]

Winterjob: adapting boxster front calipers to the rear to get better balance:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Boxsteraklauw001.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Boxsteraklauw002.jpg~original

[wrenchnride247]

That will be easy for a man with your resources and tallent.

[70Turbobug]

You had 944 turbo calipers before right? What was the "problem" with those?

[Wally]

You had 944 turbo calipers before right? What was the "problem" with those?

No, I even had the 993 rear calipers, which even have a little bigger cups than the 944T's.

Problem is brake balance. Been fighting too little rear brake bias for years now. Yes, tried 'everything'. Going back to my original believe that on a bug you can almost have the same calipers front as rear. Fronts are are 996 front.
This measure should solve that 'problem'.

[70Turbobug]

Isn´t the 993 brake caliper the same as the Boxster S? What master cylinder are you using?

[Wally]

Isn´t the 993 brake caliper the same as the Boxster S? What master cylinder are you using?

No, 993 isn't monoblock/axial mount like the boxster. 993 is earlier than boxster, but fysically about the same size.
I now use 944/n/a master with 23 to the front, 19 rear. Like I said, have tried everything ;)

[70Turbobug]

I´m sure you have :)

[Wally]

Some late incoming (awesome) pics from Julian Hunt (www.julianhunt.net) from the VW Action trip last september:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/683J2921.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_2270.jpg~original

Yeah, I did run very low tire pressure to try get into the 11's, which worked great for 60ft times, but mph didn't move much:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_2454.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_2336.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/683J2984.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/683J3052.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/IMG_2467.jpg~original

[wrenchnride247]

Great photo's Wally! :thumbup:

[Jim]

Drag photos!!! I love them!!

[Wally]

Glad you like them!

To fight the X-mas boredom, I thought it would be a good idea to start the engine so the oil could flow back to the dry-sump tank after a 3 month stand-still. Oh, yeah and I had removed the silencer :rolleyes:
"honey, it is really neccessary to start the engine every 3 months or it could get stuck" :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb_wzgslrLw

[70Turbobug]

Great pics Wally! Looks like you´re getting a little air under the front wheels in that last pic?
"honey, it is really neccessary to start the engine every 3 months or it could get stuck"

LOL! Yes - very important!

[Scotts73SB]

Love the pic with the crinkled tire on launch! Bad ass! Great pics!

[dub_crazee]

Wally are those 2.7 boxster calipers or boxster S calipers you're running on the rear? What front discs are you using?

im going to try 996 calipers front and rear on mine to see how that works out.

[Wally]

Wally are those 2.7 boxster calipers or boxster S calipers you're running on the rear? What front discs are you using?



Hi (Rob, was it?),

Those are 986 (2.5 or some early 2.7) front calipers. No Boxster S as Boxster S (987) are actually the same as 996 and have 28mm thick front rotors! I have 24mm rotors in the rear, same as front 986. See? ;)

On the front of my bug I now have 330x28mm and I use 996 front calipers for that. Originally 996 fronts are 318x28, but those calipers work very well on 330 too ;)

Progress: adapters made:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/DSCF0119.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/DSCF0116.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/DSCF0117.jpg~original

[dub_crazee]

Hi (Rob, was it?),

Those are 986 (2.5 or some early 2.7) front calipers. No Boxster S as Boxster S (987) are actually the same as 996 and have 28mm thick front rotors! I have 24mm rotors in the rear, same as front 986. See? ;)

On the front of my bug I now have 330x28mm and I use 996 front calipers for that. Originally 996 fronts are 318x28, but those calipers work very well on 330 too ;)


Ah okay, 944T and 987 rear discs are also 24mm thick arent they? (but i beleive the 987 discs are slightly taller)

i am going to be running the 318x28 discs on the front. Did you find much of a difference going over to the 944 mastercylinder from the beetle mastercylinder?

its great learning from others' experiences on here, especially when the cars get used on the track :)

Thanks

Deano

ps did you ever run rear 996 calipers?

[Wally]

Sorry Deano :o
Ah okay, 944T and 987 rear discs are also 24mm thick arent they? (but i beleive the 987 discs are slightly taller)

Yes, they are, most all rear disks are 24mm I noticed; The hats are indeed taller/shallower with each model, so you need to check out what will work for you.

Did you find much of a difference going over to the 944 mastercylinder from the beetle mastercylinder?

Yes, 23mm or 19mm in the front will make a big difference. But even with the 944 master and mounting the lines so that 23mm is to the front brakes (thus lessening the brake power on the front), on MY car, the rear still didn't bite enough. Or in other words: I still leave braking power on the pavement, it can be better if my rears work harder.
Most all rear porsche 4-pot calipers (including the 996 ones) have something like 28/30mm cups in them. For MY car with 245 wide semi-slick tires, that is just too little I found. Even the 993 rears I had had the largest rear cups I could find (30/34) and even that was too small on MY car.
Notice I said MY car, as I am sure others will have different experiences with their cars wih different set-ups ;)

I just hope to have solved the bias with the 36/40 cups in the 986 front calipers...I'll et you know how it turns out next (track-day) season ;)

[dub_crazee]

no worries about the name mix up lol

off the top of my head the 987 discs are 2 mm taller than the 944T discs and are cross drilled. i have a set of both so il see what works with my set up.


as you say thats all for YOUR car. part of the fun with these german look cars is trying new things and finding out what works. i look forward to future updates :)

thanks again

Deano

[70Turbobug]

I´m sure that running those big 18" wheels and a 245 tire requires a much higher clamping pressure than with a 17" wheel and 225 or 235 tire.

[effvee]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/DSCF0119.jpg~original

Very nice work Walter. Question, presently I have the 1985 944 rears for both front and rear. Do you feel fix caliper do a better job than floating calipers?

The reason for my question is due to, on my Chevy truck I have floating calipers and the right front wear every time faster and sticks. This is due in large part to the floating caliper design. However, over here fix calipers are hard to find. Unless I want to go to the Porsche junk yard and get rapped by sticker shock:eek:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k97/effvee/My1302Project-1.jpg~original

This is the front caliper on the rear, I feel I can't just use four wheel disk brakes from a 944/front engine, and not try and even out the braking. I have a old, I believe a 1970 911 book, in it, they use pretty much the same diameter calipers on front and rear. Leaving the larger caliper on the front, I feel would cause lock up too easy.

[70Turbobug]

Do you feel fix caliper do a better job than floating calipers?


A monoblock or fixed caliper is far better.It has more stability and more clamping pressure and resistance to heat.The resistance to heat without warping is the biggest advantage,because the caliper maintains braking pressure and doesn´t fade as much.

[Wally]

Regarding the 944 MC: I did a lot of hard thinking why the rears gave so little brake force, even with the 23/19 cups.
My conclusion at the moment is that maybe, just maybe, with the brembo alu calipers, the travel is less than on a floating-caliper with a 53mm cup as the older 944's had. That would mean that the fronts already have full contact while the rears have not fully engaged because the rear 19mm cup just isn't pushed any further in the MC...
Its also means that you just can't use the MC cup sizes to 'adjust' your bias! The MC cup sizes are there only to level out the travel of the cups in the MC, so its equels both front and rear to give the same travel/force.
Hope this explaining of mine makes any sense.

A while ago I ordered a 20.6/20.6 MC from Mid america Motorworks and it said you could order even for the superbeetle's inclined flange! For just $39.95! but it was in backorder and would take 4 weeks... Yeah, I thought, so we'll never hear from them again..
Great was my surprise when it turned up at my doorstep exactly 4 weeks later! (today)
Made in China from EMPI in blister packaging! Figured :lmao:

While the pedals are out to fit a new gaspedal from CB with 'turbo' written on it (that will surely give 20 hp extra!) to replace my worn plastic and too deep lying old pedal, I will install this new MC while I am at it and let you all know what it does on the track next season. Then I can really say that I have tried everything ;-)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Mastercylinder001.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/Chassis/Mastercylinder002.jpg

[70Turbobug]

Good luck! I´m always very skeptical about Empi parts to put it politely...

[Wally]

Me too, Every Mistake Passes Inspection and all that, but.. there is no alternative for this part, so I kinda have to try it.
And it doesn't look that bad compared to a Varga unit that worked for me in the past as well.
It is heavy tho compared to the alu 944 unit.

And hey, there are only my brakes...what can possibly go wrong? LOL

[oasis]

I hope I'm not intruding on the brake conversation but I am curious about ...
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/fusca03/1303/683J2984.jpg~original
... the holes you drilled in your front spoiler. It is obvious you did it such that the air could travel through the holes as well as the slits in the front apron, but what do you have lurking behind that front apron needing air?

[Wally]

... the holes you drilled in your front spoiler. It is obvious you did it such that the air could travel through the holes as well as the slits in the front apron, but what do you have lurking behind that front apron needing air?
Just a relatively small mercedes (Behr) transmission cooler, which I use as an oil cooler.
Amazingly, it seems to be more than enough for this - and former - engine(s) ;)

[Xellex]

that's something I was curious about, too. I've read somewhere in the past (probably on shoptalkforums) about your mercedes oil cooler, and it's obvious it's working good at speed, but is it enough at longer idle times? Actually the question is not aimed specifically at your setup, but all the other radiators w/o electrical fans on them. (and engines that don't have the stock oil cooler on too at the same time, just like yours).

[Wally]

yes, longer idle running is fine because of the porsche fan, original heads. Even with the cast iron cylinders this worked fine, but very long idle time might give elevated oil temps (100-110C) in summer. This is no problem though as head temps are very low at idle as you have no load.

[Steve C]

Hi

Sorry to jump in on your topic Wally.

Om my daily driver/sons 1303, running a mild 1904 Ive fitted a cooler in the nose like Wally has done, Im not running an internal cooler and the car will easily cope with bumper to bumper city traffic without any dramas. I do have a fan on it but it rarely comes on.

Steve

http://www.clubvw.org.au/images/dc1.jpg