guys, what size do you think is best for the hole in the squirters? And do you have a closer look picture of them?

There are different options.My case uses the tips from a wire welder with an M5 thread.Location and angle are the key to make it work properly,though.

Xellex,
I use the squirters from a 911 turbo. Those also have a check valve inside so your oil pressure doesn't drop at (hot) idle. They open at 2 bar or there about ;)

Mark,
Did Remmele install these for you?

Tnx,
Walter

No, Remmele uses the Porsche squirters also IIRC;) Most of his engines do not have oil squirters.Armin did the casework - it´s one of his cases I bought from him.I gave him my case as a "trade in".So he deserves the merit on this :D

Another small update - my billet single stage dry sump pump from Thorsten Pieper came in.It has a 3 piece housing with 32mm gears.

nice! Can these be ordered online? I only found vague information about thorsten pieper on the web.

Hey Mark,

Thats cool!

Did he change gear size? I am sure you didn't get two 32mm gears...:rolleyes:

He doesn´t have a shop or anything.If someone is interested I can contact him.

I don´t know if he changed gear sizes or not.But I just measured again,they are all 32mm diameter.Actually there are 2 gear sets,total of 6 gears.I´ll take some more pics later,makes it easier to explain.;)

Ok, I am curieus as mine are 26mm pressure side and 38mm suction side, which seems about perfect to me for a street/strip engine.
Same size pressure as suction is odd. IIRC, the suction gears could be a set working in line?
We are talking gear length, not diameter right?

Nope,gear diameter.Here are some more pics.Maybe there´s a difference in the housing? The long gears are 2 piece,then the 2 short gears behind the cover makes a total of 6,but all have the same diameter which is 32mm.Sorry,I´m not a good photographer...

I was afraid you meant that...

Gear diameter is viryually the same for ALL pumps because the housing diameter in the case has a given size. So, pump capacity for our purpose is always measured in gear length...

Dude, you must really get out more! ;)

Hi Mark,

You have a PM about the TP pump.

thanks

Sandeep

Yeah,you´re right I do need to get out more.I just didn´t think about it...:rolleyes: I got mixed up,sorry :o
The 2 piece long gear has a total length of 38mm (26mm+12mm) and the shorter gear behind the cover has 26mm.

Here´s another small update - it´s been a while..the 47x39 valves aren´t here yet,that´s why they are missing the pics.Other than that the heads are finished.I still have a couple of minor things to do on the case,after that the engine can be assembled,finally!

Hi everyone,finally the custom order valves arrived! 47mm intake and 39mm sodium filled exhaust valves both with 8mm shaft.Unfortunately,I found that my case deck has to be milled,because it wasn´t 100% straight.So that will be put me back a bit and I won´t be able to assemble until the case comes back.I´m hoping it will be back in about a week or two.

Hey Mark,

How and where did you measure the case exactly to verify this?

Nice looking valves, not sure about the sodium filling being the ones to use though. How much do they weigh?

Tnx,
Walter

Hi Wally,
Thanks! I just used a straight edge and a dial indicator just like you would measure deckheight,only that you measure the case deck/spigots without the cylinders of course.I measured at 4 points on each bore,you must make sure that the straight edge is level to have a reference. I used aluminum tape which is 0.10mm thick to level the straight edge out.Once the edge is level ten you can measure the spigot/bore and detect a difference.The straight edge has holes for the headstuds.There was also a very small groove approx. 0.15mm where the cylinders "dug in" into the case,which I didn´t like to beginn with,but didn´t really bother anything,but this was the reason I decided to see if the spigots were level.That´s the way it goes,if you dig far enough you will usually find something..so I will have the case milled to the deepest measurement that was recorded,which was 0.15mm.The measurements varied from 0.10mm to 0.15xx mm.I´m not sure if that is just a tolerance from the cast or if the cylinders actually pushed the case in due to expansion or whatever? it possibly may not have any effect on anything,but safe is safe..
I haven´t weighed the valves yet,I have a good scale at work and will weigh them today.There´s pros and cons for sure about sodium filled valves,I agree.These Valves are made by the same company that makes the valves for some of the WRC cars - so I don´t have any doubts really.

I forgot something,another way,which is easier,level out the edge and ride the dial indicator along the spigot and record the difference the needle shows.The indicator I used didn´t have a ball at the end,which forced me to be more creative..

Its difficult to picture what you described exactly, but I think I see what you mean/did. If I understand correctly, you measured the surface of each spigot hole to be flat and it was not.
Thats important of course, if not alone for sealing, but you still don't know if the distance from the crank centerline is equal for all cylinders right? Or did I miss s/th in your descirption?

I like the superalloy valves of Ferrea and Manley, but thats said, the korean stainless $60,- per 4 valves (15 each therefore) from aircooled.net worked well in the 270 hp version of my stock-ish 2 ltr 914 turbo engine for quit a while at that power level, so more may be overkill anyways ;)

Good to hear you're almost ready to build Mark.

Are you doing anything special to the inside of the case as far as smoothing any sharp edges ? My webcam magnum straight cut gear set should be here any day now, so its almost time to dust off the engine assembly bench :D

Looking forward to your updates.

Sandeep

Exactly.It´s something I normally would not have measured,but the "groove" caused by the cylinders had me thinking something wasn´t right.As far as the centerline goes you´re right,Wally.I think to measure that you would need a fixture of somekind that would allow you to measure the height from the spigot to the mainbearing or the fixture acting as a dummy crank.I don´t know really if that´s the way to do it,but might be a possibility.This would only work if the bearing saddles are also straight and not "crushed".The case had already been line bored 0.50mm over.

Hi Sandeep,Thanks! Yes, now since the case is beeing milled anyways,I will be smoothing the edges behind the spigots aswell.I may be cutting a hole/slot behind the #2 cylinder spigot for better case ventilation just like my 3 liter case has.Glad to hear you´re almost ready to assemble aswell.Then you will have to move to Germany so we can chase Wally around the track!:lmao:

:lmao: Thats some funny sh*t right there! :D

I weighed the valves yesterday.The exhaust valves weigh 90 grams and the intakes weigh 92 grams.

Thats pretty good!
My 40mm non-hollow 8mm exhaust valves are 93 gramms and intakes I can't remember...:o

It´s an average weight for that size valve,so I´m happy.Personally,I prefer a material that is "bullet proof" and can withstand extreme temps rather than a light valve of maybe lesser quality.There´s a spring for everything nowadays.I don´t think I would notice the difference in acceleration or perhaps wear if the valve was 10 or 20 grams lighter.I would rather save weight elsewhere like on the rods and pistons.

Hi everybody,

I´ve got good news and I´ve got bad news.The bad news is that the 2 liter case has several issues.It is all repairable,but it means additional work in a case that I´m no longer confident with for this project.I won´t go into detail,because I´m not the type of guy to slam somebody over the internet ( it's not Remmele btw).The matter is beeing resolved and there are no hard feelings.

The good news is I have a case that is worthy to use.I will be using my case that is set up for a 103x88 T4. I will still retain the 71mm crank and stock rods and the webcam 163,parkerized lifters from Jake Raby and the turbo will also stay the same.Changes are 102mm Deutz tractor cylinders and JE pistons.The Deutz cylinders require a lot of machining to fit,but that has already been taken care of.They should come in sometime next week - hopefully.The only thing left to do on the cylinders is,setting up the deckheight.I´ll post pics of the cylinders as soon as they come in.

The long awaited package has finally arrived! The cylinders are here! Each cylinder is milled for it´s respective cylinder position.The #1 cylinder is milled differently than the # 4 cylinder etc. This is due to the fin size and the type cylinder spacing and so the pushrod tubes fit.
I will still have to mill the cylinders to stock length.The original length is 102,5mm and I will shorten them to 91,4mm.The bore of the this model Deutz cylinder is 101,65mm.This means that a SBC piston can be used.For that I would have to modify my rods which costs more time and money.So...different than originally planned I will be following Wally´s advice and also have the cylinders bored out to 103mm and use the JE 103x71 pistons with the 24mm pin.Together with the copper head gasket from aircooled.net I´ll have a deck of -2,96mm and a 8.33:1 CR.This is the easiest way and will save me further machining and having to mill more than 2 cooling fins from the cylinders.

Very nicely done!
So these will still have to be shortenend and bored right?
With 2366cc you won't ever need more displacement if you turbo it efficiently :-)

Thanks Wally! Yes, the cylinders still have to be shortened and bored.You´re right about the displacement also,I will never need to go any higher.Right now, I have a GT3071R .63 turbine and .50 A/R.That might be a bit too small eventually,but for starters it will do fine until I get comfortable with tuning properly.I´m undecided on which Engine Management System to get.Since the prices are all about the same and they all have pretty much the same features doesn´t make it any easier.So it boils down to how user freindly they are.I´m thinking either DTA,KMS or Haltech...

I'am biassed just like Armin, so I won't comment on that ;-)

LOL...can't imagine why...
I'm leaning towards the KMS because support would be fairly near and the dealer is also an excellent tuner, which would really help me understanding how to tune an efi much better and faster.

You know KMS is a dutch system right? :rolleyes:

Yes, I do. :D I´ve heard a lot of good things about the system. There´s a dealer near Frankfurt that works very intensively with KMS.He´s the one that set up Jürgen´s V8 twin turbo bug and the tiptronic trans for it.

The deutz cylinders look interesting. couple of Qs.

Are you using genuine parts or one of the many copies?
The cylinders are Ali, yes? Are they coated?

I thought that Ali pistons and cylinders don't go well together hence the usual plating options. I notice the Deutz pistons have a graphite coating to reduce wear.

Or are you planning to get the cylinders plated after the machining is finished?

Hi Bruce - These are original Deutz cylinders. They are cast iron not aluminum.IIRC they are also nitrided but I can't confirm that. After the cylinders have been bored I may have them nitrided.Also I will be using JE pistons.

Probably a silly question but what's the advantage over the usual 103x71 cast iron cylinders. Can't be much cheaper?

Thanks

I really like the deutz cylinders so I have been interested in them, reading all I could find, so I think I can give a few answers to that:
One of the reasons could be the fact that they have more and larger cooling fins.
Another one is the great length of the cylinders, allowing you to run any combination of stroke and rod length.
Another advantage is the thickness of the cylinder wall, making them very strong, eaven when bored to a larger interior diameter.
Oh, and I hear the casting material quality is very good also... better than that of the usual cylinders off the shelf.
And I'm sure there are lots of other advantages, not to mention the coolness factor of this conversion!

Exactly right Xellex! Not to mention that they are cheaper and it is a mass production product which makes them easier to buy.The cheaper price however is can not be really seen as a reason to buy them,because the amount of machining required equals that out.
These cylinders as you see in the pics can be ran with a 90mm stroke.The length of these are 102,5mm with a 101,65mm bore.The wall thickness is 7mm:shocked: Remmele runs these cylinders with a 106mm bore and a 90mm stroke in a type 4 case making 3176ccm.
The strength is far superior to JE cylinders or any other cast iron cylinder for the aircooled vw.
The conversion to deutz cylinders have been around for a long time,even with type 1 also.A few have used these cylinders and modified Porsche 911 heads for OHC conversion,like what Holzapfel did.Remmele does most his of cnc work himself now as he invested in some tooling.Since then,he has decided to go with these cylinders again as they have proven to be the best solution for his big type 4s.They are a pain to machine though,because they are extremely hard.

I think you forgot the ultimate reason: ring sealing. Because they are a stronger design, they stay round better, so ring sealing will be better over time and especially on slight overheating occasions.
All aspects had been mentioned why they are stronger, but not what 'stronger' means to operation ;)
A disadvantage (besides cost due to maching) could be that since they are thicker in some places, the cylinder tends to run hotter. In how far the slightly larger fins help there is difficult to determine.

Dp!