As of today with 02...........
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...7.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...8.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...9.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...0.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...1.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...2.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...3.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...4.jpg~originalhttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...5.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...6.jpg~original

What front struts are those and how heavy are the springs?

They are my front struts made for us by AVO u.k and no you cant buy them direct from AVO,only L.A.P we do many different spring set ups.:)

Hi

I notice that your using 2 bolt struts on the brown car, do you prefer them over the 3 bolt? Is that because your fitting 944 stubs?

I find the 2 bolts have limitations with lowering and you cant fit a flip kit to the tie rods unless you reposition the inner tie rod mounting.

Steve

All my cars have 2 bolt set up we much prefer that to early 3 bolt, and yes all our cars feature 944 spindles/stubs.

As of today......
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...1.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...2.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...3.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...4.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...5.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...6.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...7.jpg~original

Wow, I thought you were kidding with the brown and orange, that's the color huh? I was thinking it was some sort of base coat or primer!:lmao: I'm going to have to wait till she's done though, it may grow on me and you have an eye for good color combos so I'll hold my breath.;)

Jason

I never kid........... what the hell to many people laughed at the original idea(of brown and orange) not to see it through and iam running out of colours:lmao:

I'm struggling with this colour combo (esp. the wheels) but these things aren't decided by a committee.

appreciate the pics though :)

Its all good, everybody has an opinion i no that, but you aint gotta drive or like it its built for me and i like it enuff said.:D

Mmmm Root beer!!! Put a ton of metal flake in it like the ski boats! :)

It´ll turn up real nice,just wait.Once it´s all together and lowered with glass and interior it will will be whole different car.Dare to be different - I like it!

Hi Steve, I've flipped tie rods and made the balljoint extender to lower control arms (it hit steering rack). Now I can lower the car about 1.5-2 inches more. I haven't tested it on the road yet but I think it will work well. :)

PS. typ4boy, sorry for hijacking your thread :)


typ4boy, your oval project is very interesting, I'm converting 1303 pan into standard beatle too. I've been doing this project for more than 2 years, it's almost done now :)


:)

Hi x_hodhoo

This very interesting stuff. Maybe you should start another thread on this, I'm sure that you will get heaps of comments on this.

You would need to be careful with ball joint to wheel clearance issues, the 3 bolt strut is much easier to space the ball joint on.

Steve

Really like the ball-joint extender thing! Makes for a much better reaction arm geometry with more then normal lowering.

I haven't been around for a bit ... I must say I like the brown and orange. I also must say I like the GSR in the background of a few pics even more.

Okay, back to the hijack.

Lee any updates for us?

None yet we are busy moving shops, just got to finish the new drop arms and the front end can go on sooooooooooon:D

Great news, you are moving premises?

New cro-mo drop arms nearly there just got to do some reinforcing around the anti roll bush and we are good to go prototype....... then they will be for sale if any body is looking for super strong super light weight rose joint late 03 stlye drop arms.....
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...6.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...4.jpg~original
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...5.jpg~original

Hmmm, very interesting arms. I had started modelling up a set of early tubular arms, on the off-chance I start bending them.

-Dave

I'm interested in those tubular lower control arms. Do you think they would hold up to high grip, high speed track abuse? Maybe add a triangular gusset over the swaybar bushing area?

Read the post dude .......please.

hwo much for the arms?

Great idea! Like the rose joint in particular!
I will definitely need a spacer between the spindle and reaction arm though, as mentioned earlier. Wouldn't it be an idea to incorporate something like that in the arm at the same time? I mean, we all have lowered our cars and suspension geometry suffers as a result.
Possible/good idea or not?

Nice work on the arms. If only I had an 03. Love the white car.

Explain a bit more walt iam having a blonde moment ???????:D

Howdy mate ........... those carbon parts are gathering dust ;)

Sorry mate, I could not find the right words atm.
I think I meant 'ball-joint-extenders'.

As our arms are horizontal to begin with after a more serious lowering, the camber change when taking a sharp turn can become negative. You want the wheel to gain more negative camber on turning (wheel moving upward). Like the original suspension geometry was laid out, as much as I hate to say.
Does that make any sense at all?

What about adjustable/excentrical mounts at the top of the shock towers instead? Imho that would give you more adjustability and stability.Those are available for Golf MK2 and they fit on the 02/03 also don´t they?

Wally's point:

As the stock suspension geometry is lowered, the design of the lower arm becomes a problem. At a certain point (when the pivot angle >90 degrees) the wheel gains positive camber as the suspension compresses.

As per this-
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Tech...13_WZJpU-L.jpg

on the left, stock ride height, compressing the suspension results in more negative camber (blue shadow). In the middle, the lower arm is pointing up as the suspension is lowered so further compression results in the bottom of the tyre being pulled in. On the right, the balljoint is spaced downwards from the spindle reducing the angle between the lower arm and the strut to less than 90 degrees. This fixes the problem.

The other option is the raise the inner mount of the lower arm. Changing the strut angle will reduce the key angle but not by much and it adds a lot of unwanted static camber.

If you could machine a spacer with the correct tapers and internal/external threads this would really improve the handling of lowered cars. As a bonus, it would also fix the similar issues with the anti-roll bar.

Thanks Bruce, that is EXACTLY what i meant! Not sure if possible with new arms from Lee, but if there would be a way to incorporate the extension, then that would make it an extra selling point and I would want a set now as I am contemplating extension possibilities at the moment.

The higher up mounting on the inside is theoretically a sound alternative, but the arm is already on the high hole of the mounting (as original) with '74-> suspension and higher is fysically not possible there..

Whats the weight difference with stock arms Lee? Seems like it would be hard to shed weight on the original design, but would be happy to be proven wrong of course! It would be nice if the extra weight of the extension(s) - which would be heavy - could be made up some by lighter arms!

A pic from my first front suspension

I understand perfectly what the extension does and it´s more than likely the cheaper solution.But you are also multiplying the torque on that joint between the extension and the arm.Possibly of no concern,though? Maybe thomas07056 can share some experience on that from racing?

Mark

Right o iam with you all now :D wally you cant believe the weight difference between the two moly is so light . so what we need is higher ball joint end ????

Yep! I have some 9cm clearence towards my 18"wheels from underside ball-joint to wheel rim. I think 2 inches higher will fit any other wheel, make it worth the trouble and be effective enough?

BTW, I really like light-weight in suspension components! :D

ill see what we can do at this stage thanks guys for all the input.;)

sorry, missed that :P I blame a crazy on-call schedule and no sleep for 3 days.

Also, +1 for wally's idea on raising the ball joint area. You could angle and slightly extend the tubing on the outside of the bushing area with minimal work.

Hang on guys, you've got it upside down.

The key measure is the angle between the top strut mount, the balljoint pivot and the lower arm inner mount. This angle needs to remain less than 90 degrees.

If you modify the lower arm, you are just changing the shape of the arm and the balljoint pivot remains in the same place verses the other two key suspension points.

The modification required is to space the balljoint down, away from the hub.

So those lovely arms are just fine as the are. You either need a different balljoint with a much longer stub so that a spacer can be put on first or a machined extension that mounts on the end of the balljoint stub. Substituting a ballpoint with a threaded stub might make it easier to make an extension piece.

If you look again at the right hand diagram above, you should see what I mean.

Cheers!

Thanks Bruce! Your right of course. Its easy to loose track of things sometimes ;)
I agree we won't get past something like these:
http://www.pmwltd.com/grfx/extenders.jpg

Those will weigh though, so its great Lee makes something lightweight to compensate :cool: