sorry bought the mixup

bow

Tonight I also worked 2 hours (that I could make free) on my car.

This is the result of al the welding and grinding in the trunk.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fo...0052250171.jpg

Tonight checked the weldings on the underside of the A-pilar, the dashboard and by the sidewindow.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fo...0052250172.jpg
Grt Wiebrand

Reinforcing the front control arms
 

So saturday I had an day of, so I could work an hour or 6 on my car. At the same time we (my brother and I) are swapping an GSI-engine (2ltr 16V) from an Opel kadet E into an Astra F (original 1600).
I worked further on reinforcing the front control arms. At first al the 4 plates were made correct. After that I've drilled them and welded them to the control arms.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/19887.jpg
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/19888.jpg

Welded on the control arms.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/19889.jpg

Grinding the welds smooth.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/19890.jpg
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/19891.jpg

This now at 50% finished there will be welded some extra plates so it really becomes an "box".

Grt Wiebrand :D

Wow!!! How thick is that plate your adding? Are you planning on doing a lot of off-roading as well? I like the idea of overkill, I'm just a little worried from what I've seen so far that you may be carrying a lot of extra weight when you are done with your project. Coming along nicely though. Can't wait to see your baby rolling!

Jason

Hi here, yes I like the idea on the control arms too, they do bend if you wack something. They can be straightend though a little concerned on what damage may occur if wacked now? The next weekest point? Might be a little more expensive on repair? may be the steering or the strut instead. This of course is asuming it gets wacked. happens in a race car unfortunately. I am very impressed and look forward to the end result. Awesome car !
Brent.

Hi Jason. Thanks for the nice input.
No, No no off-road for me!!!!! I'm glad if I can drive on the road without getting stock on an speedbump :eek: ;)
The plates are if I don't have it wrong 5mm thick. I think this is the minimum thickness you should use to prevent the torsion/twisting of the control arms. For example 3mm thick is not that tough. And yes jason, you're right about the extra weight. But that's what I want to "invest" for an more stiffer ride. And the weight I ad by doing this is weight with an low gravity point.

I personally also can't wait to finally ride in an bug (after almost 4 years of not riding any bug)

Wiebrand :D

Thanks Brent..

Yes i've thought of the "transform" of the torsion to other pieces of the front-handling. The torsion will allmost be out of the control arms, so now the spindles and struts have to absorb them (that's also one of the reasons that my cage goes to the strut-towers), I think this goes okay. But I don't have experience with this, so I only think logically and have an littl hope :D

Thanks for watching guys, always nice to have some good feedback/reaction.

GReetings Wiebrand

looks great! Are you gone seamweld them on the outside too ?

Hi Jonas, yes I will seamweld them also when they are ready (4cm seamweld, 4cm nothing, etc.).

Wiebrand (p.s. your engine is my inspiration for the next project.. making an engine that can abuse my car :rolleyes: )

It sure can abuse the car alright :D

Hey Wiebrand,

Finally I found some time to read this topic. You ’re doing great! I like your project.
What are the specs of your engine going to be and looking to the pictures I assume you are going to use the original gearbox? Or am I going wrong there?

Have you ever considered to use Teflon brake lines? What brakes are you going to use to stop your bug?

I wonder who finishes his project first, you or I. :p

Cheers,
Luuk

Hi Luuk

By not having so much money (I'm glad that I can afford this already) as an student I will drive with an original engine (1600 with spagetti and bigger "sproeiers") and gearbox. Money is also the reason why the brakes stays small (read:original). But in the (hopefully) near future there will be some BMW brakes on my car.

And yes I had tought of stainless braised teflon brake lines. But I found them too expensive. ( I think the next time i will do it different and go with stainless all the way)

We will see it this year :D

Greetings Wiebrand

p.s. More than 3 weeks nothing done on the bug because of an engine-upgrading project of my brothers car (1.6 to an 2.0 16V).

So, finally tonight I had some time to work on my car. Had made two plates for "boxing" my control arms. Will be drilled and welded in soon (i hope :rolleyes: ).
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/21517.jpg

http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/21516.jpg

http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/21515.jpg

Wiebrand

I have to say that i just admire your fab skill man...but,
how much weight is the reinforcement of the control arms? i think it would have a negative effect on the suspension frequencies... I was thinking of designing a proper lower a arm for the front

Chris

Thanx man!!

If I'm honest I don't know how much they weight, but I can weight them when they're ready. I can say one thing for sure, they're a lot heavier.

Mine first thought was also to make that, but than I can't go through the yearlie car check. So than I couldn't drive my car over the streets. Boxing/reinforcing the front control arms was then the only way how I luckily maybe can go through the yearlie check.

SO that's why

Wiebrand

Gotta congratulate you on the idea, but I have to say that you've really overdone the bracing. Those pieces of flatbar should be half or less as thick as they are. The weight of those arms is seriously going to be detrimental to your ride quality and even handling, as that weight will have to be moved every time the suspension comes across an obstacle. Please consider using thinner materials in the same location.

Jason

^^^^i agree. i think it will make more damage than it wil do any good. stronger = good but putting to mutch weight isnt. i tink you get problems with youre bushings and the conections.

Wiebrand, did you check it at the RDW in Veendam? I think you 're wrong about it.
There 's a lot more possible then most people know.

I agree on both post above. Do not underestimate the impact of extra weight at
the arms on your dirving control.

For Wiebrand: interesting topic: http://www.volksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14530

I know that. If you let them check by the RDW it is possible. But that also cost some money. And I don't want to test my car by them, I just want to drive with it, with a little "ombouwen" before the yearlie check.

I know that the RDW don't bite. But I also don't want to make them awake of my car (hydraulic handbrake, wing, etc.).

Wiebrand

I knew this a little.. but the topic on volksforum did help me some what to remind it me.. But the tickness of the plates is not totally "lucky" choosen.
Till 3 / 3,5mm thickness it is possible to torsion an plate by hand. I thought that the torsionpower by the car (driving) is higher than I can do by hand so I choosed 5mm thickness. I know it's maybe a bit heavy... But this is how I, for my thoughts, made an logical decision.

Or am I totally wrong?

Wiebrand

p.s. I appreciate every critical reaction. I only can learn of it! :D

p.s. 2 Today also made the other 2 plates, have drilled the top plates multiple. And they will be welded on soon.

They allready know my dear. "They" are on the internet too. ;)
You are right, they do not bite, actually most people at the RDW are very interested in such projects and
are very kind. It's something different as a 13 in a dozen Golf or Beemer imported from Germany.

Time will tell, won't it? I wonder how much extra weight there's going to be on the arms tho.
Probbably it is overdone... :(

Critical reactions are to help you, do not forget. Sure, it maybe not as pleasant as positive feedback, but if
you build a car that will go straight forward in a turn, you will say, "couldn't you guys have said something?"

Back to the RDW, on Volksforum a member works at the RDW, maybe he can answer some questions.
Maybe you should post a reply on the thread I mentioned at VF, or start your own thread; look what they
think about it over there...

Yesterday I finish welded the arms of by an friend (wo has a more powerful welder). And it looks them nice. The future will tell it they are too heavy.. if so I let them machined to get the sideplates a little thinner.

Also yesterday wanted to weld some plates in the "napoleonhoed because it had some little rotten place. But when I had it cut out.. it was totally rotten. SO there have to be welded an new napoleonhoed and an new underplate for that thing on my "I thought paint ready" chassis. But hell yeah.. it just keeps me going :D

Nothing more was done because of helping my brother with his engine-change for his Opel Astra (Vauxhall) from 1.6 to 2.0 16V. Yesterday we welded an half of the exhaustsystem so it could fit.

Here ar some pictures.

Thursday I had drilled some small holes in the midmount. It's now finished.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/21733.jpg
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/21734.jpg

And the finished control arms.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/21730.jpg
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/21731.jpg
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/21732.jpg

Enjoy Wiebrand

Well done Wiebrand - I am sure all the constructive criticism will help to make your car that much better. The progress has been fantastic to watch! :agree:

from what i know (at least in Greece) the regulations for the MOT equivalent, do not accept any modifications to the factory suspension components, except lowering springs or coilover kits.

Thus I can make my own lower A arm kit and still be legal :D

Chris

Than you're lucky ... (if you have not overread something)

In Holland you may not change or weld on "wielgeleidingselementen" so you may not weld/change the control arms. That's also why I don't have an A-armand hopefully I will go through the yearly check without changing everything.

Wiebrand

HEHEHE.. Finally an little update!!

Had found some sparetime on second christmasday (before the family-stuff begun).

At 10am got the drill and angle grinder together to start working, with the following result:

First begun to make al the welds of the napoleonhead and the chassishead "clear". Than noteded soem measurements.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22034.jpg

After that drilled some spotwelds and cut the napoleonhead of.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22035.jpg

Then cut away the other pieces and that givese this result.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22036.jpg

After some grinding it looked like this.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22040.jpg
The underplate of the chassishead is temperwarely on this place, as "mold" for the napoleonhead. After the napoleonhead is welded the hole underplate will be changed.

The "tubes" on the outsides of the head are extra welded, the inside is maked clear and painted with sincspray.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22041.jpg

And an testfit. (it's not totally ready but this is how it would look like)
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22042.jpg
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22043.jpg

Also the underplate of the chassishead is maked clear, the nuts are extra welded and all is sprayed with sinc.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22044.jpg

This all done in 5 hours and 24 minutes Smile

And quick the differents of the excisting napoelonheads.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22038.jpg
Top: The cut away one
Middle: Napoleonhead for the "older" type of bugs
Bottom: Napoleonhead for 1303

Greetings Wiebrand
p.s. sorry for the bad english

Very nice work Wieb! Please do keep it up, as too many projects are abandoned half-way lately :(

The comparison of the 12/1300 'Napoleon's hat' with that of the 1302/03 is very interesting:
Apart from the mounting position of the brake master cylinder, are the dimensions the same on the outside?

If so, the 12/1300 position of the M/C offers more aftermarket possibilities (Kerscher/Audi)... :rolleyes:
Just a thought.

Greetings,
Walter

Yes Walter I keep the project/money rolling :D

I had heard this last week also. The 1200/1300 napoleonhat has the MC ready to fit an Porsche MC. But an 1200/1300 hat is way smaller (minder diep..) than an 1303 hat. And the fitment at the ends of the napoleonhats are different. Also the price of an 1303 hat is WAY DIFFERENT (read: expensive :( )...

Have already worked on the hat last friday.
SO the 1303 hat is going on hopefully tommorow (if I be not TOO drunk tonight :eek: ).

Wiebrand

SOOOOOOOOOO everybody ready for another update??!!!

Friday morning had some time to remove some pieces of the old napoleonhat so the new one could fit nicelly. Some bending, some hitting with the hammer and it fits.

This afternoon at an hour or 2 (p.m) starting working again on the bug (it was an hard day yesterday evening... Beer... LOL :wink: ). At first drilled holes in the edge of the napoleonhat so I could weld it on the chassis. After some measuring welded in the hat.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22363.jpg

http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22364.jpg

After that started on the underplate of the chassishead. The spotwelds hitted with the centerpons and drilled through.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22365.jpg
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22366.jpg

At an hour or half past five it was like this.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22367.jpg
With this as the rusty cut-out pieces.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22368.jpg

Also tonight from 20.45 till 22.45 worked on the car and this is how it looks till now.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22369.jpg

pfff what is my car an rotten piece of ****.. I just can't believe it every time... from the outside you see nothing but from the inside it's became 3mm thicker :twisted: .

Wiebrand

Yeah, if its any concellation: been there, done that too (but it was already some 15 years ago :eek: ).

I replaced the entire bottom of the front chassis with the same new piece thats available for it and what you have inthe above picture. Nice new 2,0 mm thick piece of metal. Even cut and rewelded the center reaction arm mountings to weld it in as one piece.
While I was there, I also welded in a boxed frame for more stiffness of the front chassis, which is s/th the 1303 can really use, when you go circuit racing with it later :D .

So, just hang in there! Someday it WILL be finished and you'll own one of only a few really thorrowly restored and improved 1303's.

Thanx Wally..

Of that boxed frame... I also thought of something. But my brother find and boxed frame too stiff, he would only weld in some heavy plate. Can you give me some more info on how and where you have welded it?? Maybe some high-tech collour pics of that?? :laugh:

Greetings WIebrand

p.s. someone some other ideas of what I can do now to more "upgrading" the front mounting of the arms / chassis at this point???

Difficult to descibe, but I have pictures, however, because of the above...the pics are not digital...
Sorry :o

But I am sure, you can figure out the most logical and most strength given way to weld in some bars, just like I did.
Just make sure you can still easily direct your oil lines and such (like the shift rod!!) through the tunnel after the bars or s/th have been welded in.
Just don''t overdo it. It then only adds weight.

Good luck,
Walter

Another update:
Today I worked from 9.30 AM till 10.15 PM on the car. And I got to say that it started to look something (the chassis Smile ) but I sadly didn't had the time to weld the underplate in.

At first I drawed the lines were I cut the other piece of underplate out. I've done it this way so I wouldn't change the geometry of the front controlarms.
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22472.jpg

Then I brushed the inside of the chassishead clean with the grinder, sandbalsted some pieces and cut out the "tubes" for mounting the "stabilisatorstang".
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22473.jpg
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22474.jpg

After that made the new underplate in the good "shape".
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22475.jpg
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22476.jpg

Inside of the chassishead in the sinckspray
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22477.jpg
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22478.jpg

At last tonight, welded the "tubes" on the front en welded in some strenghting plate for the mounting of the "stabilisatorstang".
http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/22479.jpg

I didn't welded in extra braces into the head (what wanted to do first) because I think they haven't much benefit (the underplate is already 2mm thick) and it would be an hell to mount the shiftingtube

Nice work, by the way ""stabilisatorstang" = stabilisor or torsion bar.

Hi

Nice work, was your old napoleonhat rusty as well, is that why you replaced it?

Steve

Thanx..

Yes underside at the "napoleonhat" and the leftside (as seen on the right side of above pics) was verry rotten. That is the only reason why I replace it (otherwise I would be painting by now :cool: ).

Oeps sorry.. this above is for the underplate of the chassishead.

The napoleonhat is replaced also because it was totally rotten at the ends (alsmost 15 cm from each end)..

Wiebrand