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-   -   Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75 (https://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9953)

Gerrelt August 23rd 2013 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humble (Post 87093)
I'd love to get details on the roof spoiler and the rain gutter panels you made.

At your service: Link to germanlook thread :)

And here I describe how I created the A pillar deflectors: Reducing Windnoise / Raingutter Fillers page

Wally October 31st 2013 15:11

Ok, so I disposed of almost all of the type 1 stuff and started cleaning a type 4 case again :D

The idea is to use my 74mm Oettinger crank coupled to a moderate bore of 98mm to give 2230cc or almost as 'big' or small as the old motor was.
This time with "someones" billet type 4 heads with T1 exhaust ports (if all plans and promises are met) for improved flow and strength.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...c.jpg~original

Almost everything on the engine will be a little stronger or better in some way, so I'am curieus what the outcome will be!

ricola October 31st 2013 15:21

Good to see you back into it Wally!

Steve C October 31st 2013 18:33

Good to see that you are continuing your quest, keep us posted with your progress

judgie November 1st 2013 04:18

watching this one with a lot of interest. with what you proved with the last engine and the knowledge you gained from it this could be a very impressive motor.

70Turbobug November 1st 2013 05:59

Welcome back Wally! The billet heads will be introduced this weekend so Iīve heard. Iīm really looking forward to this!

effvee November 1st 2013 15:15

What type billet heads?

Wally November 1st 2013 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by effvee (Post 87475)
What type billet heads?

Aircooled type 4 billet heads :D

effvee November 1st 2013 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally (Post 87476)
Aircooled type 4 billet heads :D

haha come on Walter, you have me chomping at the bit, who makes the heads do you have any pictures sir:o

-Alex- November 2nd 2013 12:18

Similar like these E Plus heads at cal-look lounge..? ;)

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...1.jpg~original

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/...html#msg271836

Wally November 2nd 2013 15:30

Definately similar, but surely not the same ;)
If the manufactorere says ok, I'll post some pics of the drawings. Heads still need to be made..

Clatter November 5th 2013 03:43

Can that case still be good after being subject to the past abuse?
Spread center main?
Pounded out/line bore needed?

Dying to see how the case looks.
That last crank was a stock 1.7, right?
Just balanced, no counterweights, IIRC.

If you can just use the case as it sits, it would speak very highly of the setup....

Wally November 5th 2013 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clatter (Post 87492)
Can that case still be good after being subject to the past abuse?
Spread center main?
Pounded out/line bore needed?

Dying to see how the case looks.
That last crank was a stock 1.7, right?
Just balanced, no counterweights, IIRC.

If you can just use the case as it sits, it would speak very highly of the setup....

This is another case. I sold the former 2,2 engine as a N/A set-up, but if you go back some pages you'll read that I have openend the engine to change a few things (cam, rods) and that the case was even inspected for hairline cracks and all was good to go again. Even bearings were still good and could have been used again. I replaced them anyways though back then.

The crank was indeed stock 1,7 re-hardenend, polished and balanced. Nothing more.

This time it will be 8mm more stroke, chro-mo forged & counterweighted :D

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...4.jpg~original

NO_H2O November 5th 2013 09:55

I look forward to more riveting updates from you Wally.

Wally November 12th 2013 15:05

Cheers mate!

Left: new case have bolts (12.9, 10mm diameter)
Middle: Original head studs (7.2mm diameter)
Right: Raceware head studs (9.0mm diameter)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...3.jpg~original

Wally November 16th 2013 17:15

A hint of some of the parts that came in today :D

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...5.jpg~original

spannermanager November 16th 2013 17:22

finer thread pitch= more clamping force= use less torque for same clamping force.

judgie November 18th 2013 05:48

mmmmmmmmmmm pauter, engine jewelery at its best.

70Turbobug November 18th 2013 13:13

My guess this one is going to be quite a bit more aggressive? Will you be using the same Borg Warner twin scroll or are you going with a complete new set up?

Wally November 19th 2013 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Turbobug (Post 87584)
My guess this one is going to be quite a bit more aggressive? Will you be using the same Borg Warner twin scroll or are you going with a complete new set up?

Good guess! :D

Yes, I will use the same twin scroll 'small' Borg turbo I still have left from the old engine.
The new engine will also be equipped with these newly developed billet heads from Thorsten Pieper. Should be done before years end :D


http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps37f1c656.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps9a049f5d.jpg

70Turbobug November 20th 2013 06:57

I have heard from Thorsten's T4 head project a couple of months ago, but didn't want to spill the beans. :D It is top quality for sure just like the oxyboxer heads. I would think 500-550hp with the same reliability as your previous engine is really possible.

volkdent November 20th 2013 14:35

Drool....:lmao:

Jason

effvee November 20th 2013 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally (Post 87577)
A hint of some of the parts that came in today :D

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...5.jpg~original

Congrats Walter.

Hay,I was looking at Pauters website,I noticed that he's making his rockers without needle bearings or bushings for shaft support; just aluminium rockers to shaft. I wonder why he has not stated why. This is a sharp turn from needle bearings, bushings, to nothing:eek:

What is your choice for rods?
How about cooling system, upright?
Nice work Walter:)

Wally November 21st 2013 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by effvee (Post 87601)
Hay,I was looking at Pauters website,I noticed that he's making his rockers without needle bearings or bushings for shaft support; just aluminium rockers to shaft.

They are not without bushings and not 'just aluminium rockers to shaft' as you stated. What gave you that idea?

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...b.jpg~original

I already have the rods, they were a test set from R&R through Jake. Here coupled to a set of 77,50m pistons from the 1200T project (testfit for the 20mm pins):
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...a.jpg~original

effvee November 21st 2013 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally (Post 87604)
They are not without bushings and not 'just aluminium rockers to shaft' as you stated. What gave you that idea?

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...b.jpg~original

I already have the rods, they were a test set from R&R through Jake. Here coupled to a set of 77,50m pistons from the 1200T project (testfit for the 20mm pins):
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...a.jpg~original

Good morning Walter, sorry I mis read pauters web site, only the rockers using needle bearings, will not have any bushing just hardened aluminum.

Those rods look plenty strong enough.

70Turbobug November 21st 2013 07:50

Nice parts! What cylinders will you be using? Interesting that you chose to go to a 98mm bore, I would have thought that the heads were made for a minimum 100mm bore. I can understand wanting to minimize knock but 98 is somewhat exotic, hence the question on what cylinders you will use. It's good to see you back, always loved your projects and inspirates me to keep miy project going!

Wally November 21st 2013 09:02

The yet-to-be-determined bore (98 or 100) is still up in the air, but best chance is indeed 98mm. Knock threshold isn't a consideration on that aspect, trust me. I am not convinced bore has that high a correlation with knock in our application anyways.
If it turns out to become 98mm bore, I'll tell the story behind why lateron ;)

70Turbobug November 21st 2013 11:08

Quote:

Knock threshold isn't a consideration on that aspect, trust me.I am not convinced bore has that high a correlation with knock in our application anyways.
I have the same opinion on that! There are so many other factors that cause knock that you canīt just pin point it on a large bore. An engine knocks in the low rpm range,so imho usually a poor head porting/cam combo and/or tuning will be the cause.Performance wise,I donīt think 2mm more or less bore will matter anyway.;)

Wally November 21st 2013 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Turbobug (Post 87609)
Performance wise,I donīt think 2mm more or less bore will matter anyway.;)

My thoughts exactly. The 100cc difference of the 2mm bore will make only a very small difference in spool, so the better/stronger cylinder (and costs) will play a more important role ;)

Wally December 24th 2013 05:16

The new bare T4 billet heads are here! :D


http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...psf9a356f8.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps0cd6eaf4.jpg

graham December 24th 2013 13:16

Wow they look amazing nice christmas prezzie ,its amazing how much aftermarket stuff is availble from china now, only joking walter, how many pairs of these exotic heads actually exist i would imagine single figure ammounts ? Very Nice

Wally December 24th 2013 14:49

Cheers Graham! I believe 5 or 6 pairs have been made in this batch.

-Alex- December 30th 2013 10:08

I didnt see any support on torsiontubes on your car and Humble's car, i have only seen support on mendeola oval chassis and remmele chassis.

Looks like they dont need as much support as the shock towers and framehorns.

First i wanted to have tubes from rollcage mainloop to torsiontubes, but it might be not needed from what i have heard:



http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4650/75jz.jpg

Wally December 30th 2013 11:22

Alex,

Copied from my same answer in Humbles thread:

The fact I didn't weld any supports to the torsion tubes, doesn't neccesarily mean I wouldn't be better of with them...
In fact, thats probably the first other thing I will add to the existing cage as my instablity at Santa Pod in 2012 might be due to missing exactly that!

Cheers,
Walter

Wally December 30th 2013 11:33

For most tracks, these trans straps are gonna be mandatory. We just made one from 6mm steel, 4 inches wide...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...9.jpg~original

spannermanager December 30th 2013 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Alex- (Post 87827)
I didnt see any support on torsiontubes on your car and Humble's car, i have only seen support on mendeola oval chassis and remmele chassis.

Looks like they dont need as much support as the shock towers and framehorns.

First i wanted to have tubes from rollcage mainloop to torsiontubes, but it might be not needed from what i have heard:



http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4650/75jz.jpg

Alex, you are on the right track, the factory got lazy with the later production runs, many cars came off the line without even the two t/tube too body bolts under the back seat, if these are omitted, then yes, the t/tube needs tying in somehow, fitting the bolts and re enforcing the body at the bolt head is a good start, any extra bracing into the cage is better but it may fall foul of racing regulations/scruteneering at race events, check the local ASR's.;)

-Alex- December 30th 2013 14:11

Thats what i thought, finnish vw fellow with 300hp on a splitwindow also thought that torsionbars need support more than just body bolted to it

http://ub-52.blogspot.fi/ (The tubechassis car is a different project, i have designed that rear suspension.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=QOrhwTLF3hA

I am thinking either cage tied to torsionbars or remmele style bars:


http://germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11601

spannermanager December 30th 2013 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Alex- (Post 87833)
Thats what i thought, finnish vw fellow with 300hp on a splitwindow also thought that torsionbars need support more than just body bolted to it

http://ub-52.blogspot.fi/ (The tubechassis car is a different project, i have designed that rear suspension.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=QOrhwTLF3hA

I am thinking either cage tied to torsionbars or remmele style bars:


http://germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11601

Very nice Alex, tho I think the Remmele solution is OTT and getting heavy for anything without a 800 hp Turbo Porsche motor, I like simple and subtle solutions that are hard to spot, then you can cheat a bit lol:lmao:
Walter, is your's a clutch scatter shield?

-Alex- December 30th 2013 16:59

Yeah, i think bars from mainloop to the torsionbar tubes will do the trick on most beetles.

spannermanager December 30th 2013 18:47

One way is a short blind tube bolted thro the body to the t/housing end on using the existing fixing point, say about 200mm vertical, then one down from the main hoop welded to the vertical piece, then up from there again to the diagonal, that way you get a good triangulation , plus the cage can come out if required.


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