FAT performance T4 shroud
 

Here's those pics I promised. Don't have a scanner so I decided to buy a digital camera !

Blue GL showing the moon cut for the shroud....
http://members.rogers.com/ssyan/1.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/ssyan/2.jpg

Pic of my 914 2.0 GA engine as delivered....
http://members.rogers.com/ssyan/3.jpg

Sandeep

FAT shroud cont...
 

Closeup of the breather tower....compare this to the first pic in the previous post. Look at the fan shroud mount on top of the tower...there seems to be no machining.

http://members.rogers.com/ssyan/4.jpg

This mod seems to be very minor....even in the age of the internet and global information sharing...you STILL have to determine for yourself if something will work or not :mad:

I will keep you posted !

Sandeep

Man... I had the chance to get a mild modded 2.0 aout a year ago now with a FAT shroud. I turned it down because of it and the fact that I couldn't bargan the guy down or to take it off. Like Sandeep said, if the FAT shroud fits with that minor cut, i'd be all over it. And it looks pretty cool, IMO.

I am not sure if that is the FAT shroud. The Germans had shrouds like that many years ago. But that should be all you have to do....cut a hole and relocate the license plate light above it to hide it. Ask FAT for more details....they should know.
I have seen many cars like that in the late 80s and early 90s before they moved to a machined case shroud. Modifications to an early style decklid like the W decklid is way more and in my opinion it will screw up the look of your old car totally becasue you can not hide it at all.

Alex

I have FAT shroud, can measure for you
 

I have a FAT shroud on a 2.4L Type IV going into a Meyers Manx and can measure for dimensions if anyone desires. Let me know.

Thanks,

Randy
214-683-9210 cell

I'd like some measurements, please. I'm curious to find out if it can be done.

Great !
 

SuperRSi,

Thanks for the offer. Could you please measure from the center of the crankcase pulley to the top of the fan sitting on the breather tower. What is the diameter of the fan you are using ? # of Blades ?

Thanks for the help !

Sandeep

Also post the diameter of the alternator ring.

Alex

The Fat shroud will fit with that small cut. I talked to them before I bought my shroud from CIP (cheap copy of the BAS shroud). No machining required. I did not want to have my fan sticking out the sheet metal though so I chose a different shroud.
ken

Great!
That small hole looks pretty cool!
I do not mind cutting that hole on my decklid. It will be hard to see. Even more if you pass along at 180 Km/h!
:silly:

For some reason, I like that "crammed in" look that cutting the lid gives you. And, for those who would say "why do that when you can get one that fits in the deck?" My answer? "Because I can".:D

Cool !
 

That is good news !

The reason I don't want to machine the case is because the engine is a runner and I don't want to take it apart to machine the case.

In the future (2 to 3 yrs) when I rebuild it, I will consider the machining...

Sandeep

One question, what VolksWorld Issue was that?

March 1999

To make you all unsafe...
 

The Germans gave this style up, as the original air blades (Porsche part) behind the fan/ring route the air definitely to much to number 1/2 and not to 3/4. Some specially done aluminum sheets have to be fabricated to get it nearly as good as the deeper sitting form. The main difference is the volume and curve from the shroud behind the ring. Nowadays the form falls straight down behind the ring and is very near the engine case. The older forms look more like a bubble, as FAT has! I wouldn't use it!

FAT measurements...
 

I'm back in the same town with the engine, sorry for the delay.

The measurement from the centerline of the crank to the top of the entire assembly (the ring clamp bolting area) comes out to 17.25 inches.

The fan assembly is eleven blades, 9.5 inches in diameter, spinning in a housing with the Porsche part number 901 106 101 5R.

The system seems to work great in a 914, as a friend of mine has been running one for years here in Texas without problems. I do not anticipate problems in the Meyers Manx application I am using it in.

Thanks,
Randy

If a shroud will keep a TIV/2900cc engine cool running through the middle of the Baja desert for 3 solid days straight I think it will do a damn good job in a street car....but fitment is the question.

I have used the FAT shroud in 914 production class full race engines, 1800cc=180 BHP @ 12:1, no problems at all.

It seems that the Europeans only like European products and the Americans only like our products......and I guess thats the way it will always be.

Jake,

I think you are right with parts coming from different countries but I find this pretty sad. I really do not care where the parts are coming from as long as the quality is good and the price is fair.

There are some great products available from US companies and European companies.
One example that caught my attention:
The Käfer Cup brace kit was developed many years ago for the Cup racers. When introduced nobody really bought them until TGFab did his own version. Another example is the light valve train. For years we heard on the CLF about higher spring pressure with high duration cams and stock or Scat lifters. Now people start to look into lighter lifters, push rods etc.

Also the heritage is completely different. Europe is more track focused and the US more focused on the strip. This is changing now.....which is exciting. And this is the main reason for our website.....show you what is out there, what can be bought....regardless from which country.
The beauty is that we can learn from each other to give quality a new meaning instead of pointing fingers.

Just my opinion on this subject.

Alex:silly:

Controversy supplies the reader with exciting and hard bitten opinions, states as facts from both sides... No arbitrator is introduced and we can hash things out the old fashioned way while trying to make our point...

I use parts from both sides of the spectrum...as well as other countries as well.

What I do works, and what they do works, the only person that is right is the guy that leaves the conversation knowing more than he did before he read the page.

This is what's cool about having both european parts and parts in the US..... there is more than one way to solve the problem :D

The reader of the post is made more knowledgeable about what exists out there.

I for one, am looking for parts that fit my budget and solve the immediate problem at hand (May be creating another one though with out knowing it !).... but I am not keen on paying for overseas shipping.

Sandeep

Sandeep,

a lot of people do not realize that the advertised prices in Europe always contain the tax which is about 16% that you can deduct because you do not have to pay it.
This will cover shipping normally.
I paid about 60$ US for a Kerscher front disk kit from BAS that took about 2 weeks to get to my door. It already entered Canada after 5 days but customs here take are pretty slow.
If you get something shipped you have to make sure that the vendor ships via Economy which means it will cross the Ocean via palne but the rest is done by rail or truck so it will take a little longer than airmail which is very expensive.

You have to pay duty but you have to pay it anyways if it comes from the States and if it is shipped via UPS you have to pay a high brockerage fee too. shipping is expensive no matter from where it comes from to Canada.
Alex

:eek: i did not know that. i did get my rear drums from CSP Germany bought and shipped for about the same everyone here was just selling them for. it was like $150 all said and done. and quick too.

Once again how much more demanding can an engine be for airflow than when it is subjected to Desert like temps for days at a time in dusty climates, with super low gearing??

Nothing can duplicate the engines need for cooling in that application, no street car has that amount of load on the engine in that type of climate and ambient air temperature.

FATs shroud has been around for years, but I forgot it doesn't count because it uses the Genuine Porcshe fan and not a part from a GOLF!

Ehhh Jake,

my statememt was not about the shroud but more about your comment that Americans like US stuff and Europeans like European stuff. It really had nothing to do with 911 shrouds. I think I gave enough examples that were not even related to a 911 shroud.


Alex

....
 

Funny, I use all parts, no matter from where they come, the qualtiy is important. I like US stuff as my father imports stuff since the 70'S, so I raised with all the stuff and I know, what's working and what not!

I don't know, what's the deal with the FAT shroud? Hey Jake, I use also Porsche alternators, all the customers who catch up a cheap ring with alt and fan from a Porsche are served with bit's & pieces to complete their fan system by me. I like the original, but Golf alts work as good! Ride a bit more on that theme and we are creating a problem.

Porsche vs Golf
 

Guys,

Its good to have a choice when it comes to solving a particular problem... and there is always more than one way to solve the problem...

To me it does not make a difference which part I use... the budget I have will make the decision for me. Alot of people in this community are trying to put a T4 into their ride and want the Porsche fan look, but don't have the $$$ to make it happen

Through my research, I have found I can get a used genuine Porsche alt/fan for about $150-$200 (upper end of my budget) so this is the solution to the upright conversion that I will go with... not because it is a Porsche part...but because it fits my budget.

If I could get a Golf alt/fan for $150... I would use it, but not because it is a Golf part, but because it fits my budget.

Its the budget that will make the decision for me and this means alot of compromises.... but the bottom line is its the consumer who is going to do the research and make the decision and its good to be able to have a choice.

Sandeep

An Update !
 

I placed the order for the kit this morning. Includes everything but the 911 fan, alt and ring. I have almost 3 weeks off from work during December and I want to have this engine installed in the car with everything but the exhaust !!

I'll post some pics when the box arrives.

Sandeep

Cool, Let us know, I'm interested to see if it fits in the engine bay with no mods.

Sure thing.

I will have to make a small 'Half Moon' cut in the decklid like in the first image of this thread, but I will take lots of pics.

I'm installing this into a '74 bug so I have the late style decklid and I can move the licence plate light up or down a bit to hide the cut.

Pics will follow after the install !! :D

Sandeep

please do let us know. i am putting my finger on the trigger. i am interested in knowing how well everything mounts and quality of the materials. i will probably use standoffs if i go with the FAT. still strongly considering DTM though.

sandeep, i just talked to FAT about the shroud. what are you going to do about:

1. the oil filler
2. plumbing for the external cooler
3. sealing tin (has anyone tried the OPP btin with a FAT shroud?)
4. linkage (through the shroud behind it, how?)

any places you can recommend to pick up a fan, alt and strap other than ebay (too few) and FAT (too expensive)?

the kit itself seems like a deal, but looks like these little things can add up.

Zen,

the oil filler
You can fill the oil by using one of the holes for the oil breather in either head. It will take longer to fill though. When I get my NOS case ready to build, I will bore out the filler location on the pulley side (bottom right) and fit an oil filler adapter tube there.

plumbing for the external cooler
I'm going to use a Mesa Cooler with fan under the rear parcel tray, with an oil cooler adapter off of the stock oil coller location

sealing tin (has anyone tried the OPP btin with a FAT shroud?) Not sure about that one yet... but will conquer when the time comes :D

linkage (through the shroud behind it, how?)
I'm trying to find a linkage like the one shown in Keith Seume's book... Custom Beetle Handbook, on page 81. It is a bell crank style... no hex bar...

So far I have less than $600 invested in the FAT shroud/Porsche alt setup....

I'll do a tech article on my install during the winter.

Sandeep

...
 

Sandeep, why don't you use the cheap linkage from CSP? It's stainless, left- & right threads on the bars, center mounted. Perfect for a Type 4 and really cheap, around 35$ for you, when I convert it correctly.

Some more pics from Volks World
 

Looks more like the FAT setup.... Shows some cover tin ideas...

http://members.rogers.com/ssyan/A.jpg


Similar 'Half Moon' cut in decklid with licence plate moved up to cover cut....

http://members.rogers.com/ssyan/B.jpg


Here's a pic of the Bell Crank Linkage (Thanks Oliver for the idea !)

http://members.rogers.com/ssyan/C.jpg

Notice that the tag light is moved up, and so is the tag, probably to hide the fan clearance areas.......good luck.

The CSP loinkage is great I use it all the time.

It looks simular to the scat linkage which I have. Is there a way to avoid the idle speed difference from cold to hot due to engine expansion?

Thanks
Ron

Mine never changes on my cars with engine temperature. one trick I did was to slightly wear the ball sockets a bit with some lapping compound and give som "play" in the linkage, that took care of it.....

The Linkage is way different than any Scat linkage I have ever seen before.

Slick idea Jake. The scat linkage has bolts that attatch the linkage to the throttle levers on the carbs. I bet I could create some play somewhere in the system. The original kadron linkage that I replaced had the ball and socket, which is the "big complaint" about the kad linkage. I'm not sure why though. Also my engine probably expands about a 1/2" more than yours:)


Thanks,
Ron

Finally arrived ..
 

Hi All,

Here's some pics of the shroud kit that arrived today...

Hardware and instructions ..... looks to be of good quality... the pulley is billet and anodized black...
http://www.germanlook.com/Images/Fat1.jpg


The shroud is painted a deep cherry red ... Very nice .... It will match my BIG REDS nicely .. :yummy:
http://www.germanlook.com/Images/Fat2.jpg

http://www.germanlook.com/Images/Fat3.jpg

cont in next post ....

Finally arrived cont ...
 

Note the interesting wedge shape at the back of the shroud. I wonder if this helps split the air between both cylinder banks.... ? I realize that the shroud will be pressurized but its kind of neat to see it first hand.

http://www.germanlook.com/Images/Fat4.jpg

http://www.germanlook.com/Images/Fat5.jpg

I don't have time to fiddle with it right now but will do so in late December !!


Sandeep