Cylinders
 

Hi everyone, I am trying to get my machinst to make me a set of Aluminum Cylinders. I am trying to find a very good Aluminum to have the cylinder made from. 2618, 4032, I believe have to much Silicone in the formula. I am told that Nikisil will not adhere to a high silicone base Aluminum.

I once had the same idea and tried to find the suitable alloy. I can have them plated locally. Then i bought some Mahles cheap from ebay. I remember this thread at stf:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewto...04085&start=15

regards
iv

6061 t-6
 

Well, it seems as though my choices of aluminum's are greatly restricted by large quantities of purchase. 4032 would have been the perfect aluminum, but upon research I can only find 4032 in diameters of up to 2 1/2 inches. And the aluminum's such as 2018, 2016 of which they use to make Pistons are not playable with Nick assail. Even the true to its 6061 is going to be costly. But at the end of the day, I am forced to choose 6061 T6 extruded. Wish me luck:o

Says who?

20"s
 

Hi Walter, I may be wrong, it 2018 and I believe 2031.

AFAIK, they can even nikasil iron liners...:rolleyes:

above 13%
 

Hi Walter, the people at US chrome stated anything about 13% silicon in the aluminum formula would be a problem in the plating process using the Nikisil. Not only that, I have been coming across companies that can only sell in length and weight. I really wanted to 4032, but I could not find any place that was selling the 4032 in size greater than 2.5 inches in diameter. Yeah I tried to cut corners by asking the Internet community. I also called the machine shop called Costa Mesa R&D the machinist name is John Edwards. Well if they don't fuse together, or lose their shape and aluminum does as it should and dissipate the heat I think I will be okay. So the one thing left is, some 356 lifters from Porsche and ratio rockers from Pauter and I'm done with this engine.

JE states that 4032 has indeed high silicon content, but 2618 hardly has any silicium as JE says. Thats the alu you started the thread with. Why not use that?

Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti..._coatings.aspx

The article states that the coating will not work on any 2000 series aluminum alloy.

US chrome and millennium technologies
 

Thank you for the article, I did contact millennium technologies and US chrome. However neither of the businesses were recommending aluminums other than the 6061 because of its ability to adhere with the Nikisil coating. Although millennium technologies did state 4032 would be a very good aluminum for me to choose to have cylinders made from. 4032 is very hard to come by, especially in a 6 inch diameter size. I believe there's only one other person making aluminum cylinders having Nikisil coating, and that is Charles Navarro of LN. The Ottinger cylinders having been Nikisil coated were great, but pricey. So no doubt Charles is not going to say what type of aluminum alloys he has chosen. And I just don't want to spend $2300 for four cylinders and a total of $3200 in total for piston and cylinders, let's face it I am cheap:o I believe I need a lot more for that amount of money. So US chrome and millennium technologies can chrome the cylinders. But not any of the 700 series in 2000 series aluminum. I believe that both companies feel that to make a recommendation of aluminums to use, it may could become a liability issue; although they both said 6061 was quite treatable. So I guess that's enough from this thread, thank you everyone.

After all machining and plating is done, I am pretty sure you will have spend about that amount...

...or more.

Rarely is one-off stuff cheaper.

Exactly.Not only that,but you still have a product that you don not know how well it will perform.I would actually rather try the AA nikasil cylinders before spending a lot of money on having cylinders made.Yes,the LN cylinders are expensive,but they are a proven product.Another option worth looking into would be alusil cylinders from Mahle that are made for the 3.6 Porsche from the 993 model (the last aircooled model) and modify them to fit a type 4 case.However,after machining the price is probably the same or even higher than the LN cylinders.The only cheaper way around the LN cylinders are the AA cylinders.I´m not saying they are better or even equal to the LN cylinders.However the Chinese have been the world´s leader in aluminum nikasil products for over 20 years.Most OEM car and motorcycle engine blocks and heads that are alu-nikasil come from China including VW.It´s not all bad from China.It´s just finding the right company just like anywhere else.There are crappy companies in Germany and USA also.

That is an interesting suggestion. Do you know what diameter the 993 cylinders are?

The 3.6 Liter has a 102mm bore.

Oh dear...

3.6 ltr aircooled 911 has 100mm bore, 3.8ltr had 102mm bore ;)

elementary, my dear Watson! LOL.

Oh..ok I must have seen the oversize piston then.I thought it had the same bore as the 3.8 - my bad. Right you are Mr. Holmes ;)

The cylinders
 

I saw the cylinders today, man looks nice. I sure better get some air over them, they have 21 fins. I sure need to make sure the 11 blade fan is up to it.

Skirt of the Cylinder
 

Hi everyone, question, at the bottom of the Cylinder where it goes into the spigot. I have noted some cylinders having a machining out a dish like shape. What is the removal of metal for? These are not my cylinder that I am having made, but very close to them. My fins will have the same diameter the entire lenght.

My Cylinders
 

Hi, well the machinst finished them. I told him to only machine one of the four cylinder with the clearence for number 3 cylinder, well he did all four the same way:o
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...8.jpg~original
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...2.jpg~original
these are for my 88 stroke engine
************************************************** ***************************
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...1.jpg~original
see the machining at the spigot end? is this madatory?
I will have Costa Mesa R&D finish hone to spec's i'll select a 12Ra and cyro treat them before I send them to U.S. Chrome.
See the botom of the cylinder, should'nt I have a cutout for the counter weight to pass by?

Nice! I don't think a cut-out is neccesary when the spigot depth in the case is equal or less then that part of the cylinder.
AFAIK, the spigots are normally there for a little smoother internal case breathing when the piston comes down.

What alu type did you end up with?

Extruded 6061 T-6 certified. Walter, finding 4032 ect was not possible, the 700 series and 2000 series will not take the coating. I asked and asked, and then I went to LN site and someone had 200,000.00 mile on LN early version of cylinder. If I remember correctly LN did use 6061 at first. Hay no one was able to tell me of a better on hand Aluminum. If it holds it shape, I'm sure the Nikisal will do its part. Walter I'm not sure if I'm going to use your shroud or just make some runners from my 11 blade directly to each of the cylinders. I plan to have my machinst friend make me some tubes for each of the cylinder and create opening for the runner air from the 11 blade and larger exits on the bottom, and be done with it.

Just had to see how they look
 

Hi, well I went to my storage unit today. I just had to see how the cylinders looked moked up. I could get use to seeing that coming together, and it being my:D
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...8.jpg~original
I thought that only the #3 cylinder would need the releif cutout, but by my fins being the same diamter all the way down; it would seem that the #2 cylinder releif was a good thing there to:)
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...2.jpg~original
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...5.jpg~original
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...6.jpg~original
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...6.jpg~original
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...7.jpg~original

They look great Francelle! Excellent machining and design! I´m really anxiuos to see how they will hold up! Good Luck and keep us posted!

Nice looking jugs. Never thought I would say that to a guy.

wow
 

Ha,ha, and ha:o

Hay Walter, I've been thinking; since I have two set of heads. I think I'll try your shroud, I also have two 11 blade fans and fan rings. Walter may I ask you to look back on you days when you were developing that shroud. What area do you think could stand any kind of attention? I noted the area around the head and spark plug area you were addressing. The sheet metal when it arrived was loose. Does it simply need re-securing? Was there any alt air deflector on the alt for better air direction? Any suggestion?

Yeah, of course, resecuring sounds very logical to do ;-) I used an original porsche deflector on the 11-blade but on your shroud I used an original 12-blade fan housing as you may remember. The 12-blade fans housings have much more internal vanes, so no extra sheet metal vanes were used with the 12-blade fan set-up. The original black plastic ring to cover the alternator on the back of the 12-blade fan set-up was also used.
Look sgreat so far. Good luck!