Carb syncronizing
 

I am just now getting to my carb tuning and there must be something very wrong I pulled the engine last month to fix three engine leaks after the cam break in run
I went a head and used the time to try some different mufflers and finally built one.
I've checked the wires plugs and the intakes for leaks with ether .1&2 will not register on the syncronizerbut the engine will smooth out at partial throttle .I even shot a little ether into the 1&2 carb with no change at idle its almost like I have low compression only on 1&2.
What should I check now, is it possable that John Connelly sent a mismatched pair of carbs or that I may have 2 cylinders with low compression on a new build? or could the cam be wiping out 3&4 seem to be hitting good and they do show up on the syncronizer.

What kind of sync tool are you using? Manometer?
What kind of carbs?

IDF 44 Webers and a Indecador type Air flow meter

IDF 44 Webers and a Indecador type Air flow meter. I was using a unisyn and borrowed this thing only to discover I have no carb draw on 1&2.

Make sure there are no air leaks on the top linkage plate, and also under the velocity stacks. Strip the linkage plate from the top,and put the uni syn right on the carb body. It sounds like the right carb is closed and left is way open. sync the carbs to the right one first.

Does the engine turn over like it has even compression on all cylinders?. If so do what Cooter said.

Set the throttle stops first. Then hook up the linkage ans make sure both carbs open at EXACTLY the same time.

If you're using Hex-bar linkage, then because of the tortional flexibility of the aluminum Hex-bar, the left side carb will try to open first. That can be compensated for with adjustment of the little heim joints and turnbuckles at the ends of the Hex-bar arms.


Yetibone

P.S
Hey Yeller,
I went to Northwood HS!

Northwood is only 15 miles or less, away.

I tryed a few dianostic tricks today . I started with a even linkage setting and shot ether in every cranny of 1&2 intake & carb .

It's the air jets, they must be blocked.

I compesated by opening only the 1&2 side throttle linkage and it idled perfect. I shut it down to try another trick,and it was pain to start again it acted like the compresson had jumped

So what you said , rings true . It's very hard to start now. most likely because 1&2 are partly open and drawind in more fuel. and making the compression jump on that side

My hex bar rod is steel and the end bushings are now needle bearings. It very free and no lose motion.

I do have a new question. what size jets should a 2.0 with KB pistons, Jake's web cam and 1700heads be using?

These carbs have 52 jets on the air idle circut.

And what would be the ideal float settings.
I want to check every thing.

This thing made me such a mess yesterday . I just closed the door, and walked away. just to calm down. I really need this car up and running well.

I doubt John sent "mismatched" carbs but if you are concerned, remove them and check all the jets and venturi to satisfy your concern. While they are apart, be sure everything is clean and open. Only when you are sure everything is ok should you try and sync them or you will just chase your tail...
ken

Remember, the heads were built by Head flow masters to Jakes specs, not stock anymore. Bigger valves, etc. I've got the specifics at the house and can send them later. Compression was 8.1 or 8.2 to 1.

head specs
 

Would that not be a bit high for a street engine 8.5.1 will reqire a 91 otane minimun

This is not my strongest area, someone please chime in

While your at it John check with you friend I bought the automatic tranny from.
I want the flex plate gland nut to that tranny It is different from a straight gear car,gland nut, I think , 3 mm thinner without a bushing.

I may go back to my main stay of T-1 engines.

I decided to call up Weber ,one fo the air jets looks cracked. I went and ordered their hi and low jet pac kits. and they said straight up that they feel that 52.s are to small and odds are the fuel jets will be too, if they are smaller than 135. Eric said that is to small for any 2.0.

Ok now what gives. truth ? fibbs? I am not a pro at this and would hate to ruin a good engine .

Up till now I have always worked on single carb applications

Your welcome to chime in ,and voice your idea,s and exploits..

This is my first T-4 and may very well be my last. if I don,t get it right soon. I,ll do different

Idle jets should be .55 to .60mm. Main jets should be 1.50 to 1.55
or more depending on your cam, and air correction jets should be 1.80mm.

I agree your jetting is too lean, and would cause one or more cylinders to be "dead" at idle.

I've honestly rarely messed with Weber IDF's, as I like Dellortos, but I feel sure your 2 litre would need more fuel than the current jetting can provide.

On my last Sand Rail, I had a 2180 Type I with a pair of Dellorto DRLA 40's. The jetting on those were .60 idle, 1.50 mains, 1.80 air correctors. Use that info as a rough basis for yours. My Type I's bore was 2mm smaller, and it's stroke was 11mm longer compared to your TIV.

Good Luck.


Yetibone

Thanks a bunch, with all the warninigs, I got on first start ups and 20 min. runs at no less than 2,000 rpms and all the care that went into fixing the leaks . Id hate to come SO CLOSE, then lose big.
I had to open 1&2 side up 1/4 before it would idle> Now I wonder if theres something up with 3&4 sence they would fire. I do know they have the same air jets . I did not tear into them futher than that. but Iwill now.
One thing the main fuel line runs straight into 3&4 carb and tees off over to 1&3

I havent got a clue as to what Jake's web cams, lift an duration are.I think with my brothers mic,s and other toys I may find out. But I will keep it hush, hush if Jake wishes it so, I don,t want to ruffle any RAT hairs ,they worked hard to come up with those combo cams.
Didn't like the way it worked the starter after it got warmed up I may need to snoop for a reduction drive race starter

hi
dell jets run bigger for the same engine than weber jets generally! keep in mind its better to have a bit to much fuel than run it to lean!!

Thanks again ,
I forgot to ask if the jet pack kit came with new gaskets , most likely not. but at nearly $160.oo you,d think it should
The carbs are almost new, I do have some good high quality gasket paper and a exzacto punch and knife kit, on hand, I am gonna chance it ,
I had allready made extra gaskets for the air cleaner plates and bells.
Are the gaskets bad to tear when disasembling?

hi
chances are you could be just fine reusing the gaskets that are on allready they dont generally tear at all if your nice and carefull on disassembly . cleanliness during is essential give them a good wash of evwn before you take them off the motor they might look nice clean and new but they will be covered in little bits of grit grit kills carbs.

best of luck.

Thanks NJV your help is appreciated. The carb cleaner and air compresser are standing by.
I do need to get up with Jake next Wednesday before the complete jet kit arrives.
I am hoping he can tell me which jets are correct for the M T-4 2056cc.C engine.
But what I am afraid of is that could vari from engine to engine.
Hope not

The jetting will vary from engine to engine, but if Jake knows how the motor is built, I'm sure he can tell you how to jet it. Altitude, cam profile, compression, port diameter, and exhaust diameter, and length will play into how your carbs should be set up.

I've always used the "trial and error" method. Once I think I've found stoiciometric, I drive a couple of miles and check the spark plugs to make sure I'm not running too rich, or too lean.

It took me a total of 8 hours to get the DHLA's dialed in on my TR6 because they came off of Alfa Romeo engines, and I couldn't find any info on how to jet Dellorto's on a six cylinder Triumph.

Keep trying, you'll get it right!


Yetibone

That opens a hole new can off worms.

I designed and built the exchangers & muffler, and the muffler restriction can be adjusted by adding restrictor veins in 3 different locations inside the muffler in a combination of ways

OH BOY!

I have drawings and a few pics in my web space ,The systen is intended to work as a T-4, to T-1 application replacement I wanted it to be a universial setup for T-1s ,T-2 s & T-3s

The muffler is made like a 3 chamber flowmaster with low restriction thoughout. That way , Jake can use it on BIGGER engines in all his applicactions or even a stock T-4.

At least that's what I intended.

OK found no blockages. In the webers

primary jets are- 125

idlejets are- 55

pump jet is -40

float level is-10/32.5

These are Idf 40 spec,s when I compared mine to the weber chart
I was suposed to get Idf 44s Thats what I ordered as I recall

Is there a way to check the carb size? between 40s and 44s
I will take some venturi measurements

I have found out that 40s would probley be a better size fit and be more driveable. But which jets would be correct

It,s time for Jake to chime in If would The UPS truck just pulled up ,the jet pacs have arrived

Please understand That Jake DID NOT build this engine.

I do not hold him responcible. in any way It was built up to a long block by John Helgerson and the rest is my effort. the parts I think are to Jakes spec.s by Mr Helgerson.

It is suposed to be the same as the M-4 2056 C

Hmmmm.....

Measure the diameter of the throttle plates. either 40mm or 44mm

The carb bodies should say wether they are IDF40 or IDF44.

Yetibone

hi
no way should that engine run on anything smaller than a 135 main on the 125 you are too lean get it out!

go to aircooled net read the excellent diatribe for weber carbs set your floats as instructed by it do not not do it this is criticle to set spot on as per johns write up.

then re sync the carbs print it out do not step past any part be methodical if for some point you get stressed then walk away leave it while you have a brew or someething .

have a notebook and take notes make sure you write down what you fit to the carb test drive take notes these may help later take your time and enjoy your hobby.

Yes, should be stamped in little letters on the base flange of the carbs "XXX IDF"

I'm pretty sure the stock venturi for a 40 idf is 28mm.

OK! first off No Taggs or Ins. I feel its not proven its self to me enough for that as yeat. Plus I still have the top and some paint work to do. this being a converted speedster means it will be a total custom top job.
I already have enought paint stocks and happis t 20 yr top material to finish it, but even if its roll backed to the top shop they still will wish to drive it in and out of their shop and storage area. it will take at least a week
My Inspiration Pic Is Just that Inspiration , I want the body in a clean shop before the touch ups, the clear coat is layed ,and buffed.
Engine work is a invitation for nicks and scratches. The car is not to be finished untill the engine makes the grade.

I found the Idf 44 marks , so yes they are 44s.

I did not see a veturi numbers anywhere, where should they be and the pump horn nossles are 4C but it revs fine. Just idles like crap still. I just came in from the shop and got it back together
The more it ran the worse it got ,but you could pull a rev and it straigten out then start back to act as if it was missing again. 6 mins I shut it down. Why do I suspect foul play in Conlleyville at the Air Cooled Net Parts?
I am next going to change the idle jets to (60) and primary jets to (150 ) or up to170 that Id have to order 155s 160s 165s and 170s all 4 sets will run about $50.oo it would be nice to here from a 2056 Mass4 C owner as to which main jets are Installed

The kit has main Jets 130s 140s, 145s 150,
air jets170s 180s 185s 190 I DID NOT SEE WHERE THESE GO
idle jets 55 60 65 70
pump jets 55
pump bypass zero bypass 702

After I posted my last post I went back and cleaned the floats and filter bowls, before reassembling the carbs
I found rust,but not much The fuel line must have had some rust in it
I flushed the lines two times and it was clean both quarts
The weber chart for a idf 44 50/51 givies
mains jets as 170
idle jets 60
main venturi 32 on 40s or 36 on 44? But if I mine has 40 jets
Who want s to guess which venturi
pump jets 55
The Idf 44 38/39 is the same except for 50 idle jets and 50 pump bleeds .That cant be right, can it?

It begining to look like someone wants me to lean blow a engine and thats not gonna happen

just to make sure you have covered eveything have you checked to see if your idle jets are clogged. my engine did that too when it had clogged idle jets

I swapped them out with new,of same size and checked and cleaned the old ones and put them back in the box . I saw no trash of any kind except in one filter bowel. But I wiil check them again.

the easy solution is to buy the A/F kit from john and then you can find out exactly where it is lean or rich. one test you can do is take starter fluid and spray down the intakes and anywhere you think a leak could be. if the engine revs up then you have a leak, if not, you probably dont. a good rule of thumb is to get your idle mixture screw where they are about 1-1 1/2 turns out. if they are like 1/2 turn ou then you might use the next bigger idle jet. if over 2 turns out then use a smaller idle jet. then once it can idle good within that perameter then go drive it and floor it when it comes off the idle circuit(around 3000 rpms) see what the engine does. if it blows smoke its rich. if it really losses power then it might be lean. but yes all engines are different. my 2.4 T4 runs on 50 idle 135 main 200 air. haven't messed with pump jet and all that other stuff. it feels good so i leave it alone. by the way, your airs are in the same stack as your mains. they are the top ones that the stack holder slips over. i have to go so i can't explain more but hope that helps.

SAM

I have a friend droppin in the weekend with a portable O-2 setup If any what other jets would you get ? I,ll have them overnited.


Weber said I got all I need as far as Jets .Thats good Erne dropped by today.

And we pulled this turkey. not gonna waist any more time with it now , Push has come to shuve ,and the to the next question

NO!!!!

Low compresson on 1&2