The Perfect Suspension rear end..
 

I recently read the perfect suspension article in the articles section of the homepage. I'm lookin at geting a 72 SB. And there is one thing he assumed.. and that is that the SB has the same weight dist (or similer) as the 911. Is that true? What is considered to be the ultimate near bolt in setup for the IRS rear end? Should I automatically go bigger is better or is there a spacific?

Also, what about the front? Lots of people say topline. But they use 10% stiffer springs. For those of you that have 120-150lb front springs. What's it like? Does the car maintain contact patch on rough roads?

1. Both the 911 and the beetle are rear engine rear wheel drive cars.

2. Any of the 944/968 rear suspension parts are a good upgrade for the beetle if you want a wider rear track and suspension adjusability.

3. You really don't need that stiff of a sping in the front since their isn't that much weight in the front of the car.

I had the Topline Maxx Struts and I didnt like how stiff their spings were.
If I ever get another Super, i would use the Kerscher Struts because they are fully adjustable and have progressive rate springs which are really nice for the street.

Wouldent want to sell your Maxx struts now would you? :D

Alright, so I bought how to make your car handle. And I've learned a bunch. What I want is a nice firm ride not painful or bone jaring. Mabey slightly lowered in the rear, a lil more in the front mabey (helps weight transfer too!) What is the best way to do it? IE what rear stuff to use and what front stuff do I use? the control arms MUST remain paralell to the ground!

The car I'm lookin at has 3 inch wider fenders on it that's a LOTTA tire!! This car is going to be dry traction city! Unsprong weight becomes an issue..

http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=3831


Check here for some rear end alignment ideas. ;)

That is excelent! The car now has 245's on the back and is lowerd by something about being off a spline? Anyhow.. I wonder if those tires are allighned properly..woah!

>And there is one thing he assumed.. and that is that the SB has the same weight dist (or similer) as the 911<

You are correct. I did assume that, but both have a huge rear weight bias so they have similar needs the way I see it.

In my opinion the stock rear torsion bars in a Beetle are pathetically soft. My suggestion for anyone is to at least get the 944 units.

That being said it does change the handling attributes of the car. But I do not mind a rear that pushes. YMMV

Good luck,

I find it interesting how the 911 even up until modern times still had the rear engine rear wheel drive. How does this car handle (keep up) with all it's 50/50 compediters?

What are the bolt on options for the rear suspension? Just 944/928? That is still, I think, one of the best handling cars ever. Does it's suspension help the SB. The SB does not have near it's weight dist.

911(996) is still rear engine/rear drive and it is the car of choice in the ALMS GT class, etc.

From what I was told, Porsche went through a rigourous weight relocation program to try and shift as much of it's movable weight(ie, battery, spare tire...) as far forward as possible to move the cog forward. I drive a 914 as well and with it's 47/53 bias it is very predictable in the corners.

Nick

That explains some of the weight jumps I see thoughout time. But what makes this car so good? It must be that it's the only car that had any real power? I could move everything I could foward in a SB and never reach that weight. (I don't know how much the front and rear weighs without a rear engine..but the engine is some odd 220lbs) I can move the batt up there, put in 50 lbs worth of sterio stuff..and still not have it.. but I've always read it's critical for handling..

Transfer the batery to the front, ditch the back seat and give it a try. If you are going to tweek a rear engine car, narrow your research down to racing resorces for Porsches and early VW's. All that water pumpin' front engine stuff will get you all messed up, poison your mind and rott your teeth.

True, but some of the best handling cars (except 911 it seems, and I've had people tell me a 944 will outhandle a 911) are AWD and/or 50/50 weight dist? What does it all mean? How do you make these cars handle?

(I'm a dunce..)

By worlds best handling cars, I mean Ferarri F50, BMW M3, Porsche 944, WRX, Anything Ford Cosworth..etc. (All in their own right, some need a little work to get there, but are excelent platforms) And I know 911 is in there somewhere too.

It's all the driver.

You just have to know how to drive a rear engined car to understand the advantage over some other types of car formats.

The rear weight over the drive wheels is a powerful advantage and disadvantage. The advantage is that the rear end weight offers excellent rear traction. The bad is that if the rearend breaks loose in a turn then it is harder to "catch".

Race drivers can use the rear weight to "turn" the racecars via the throttle (kind of like drifting or rally racing - just not as extreme) and that helps keep speed as it is not shaved off by the front tires. IMHO the front drivers offer the worst setup to be fast on the track (granted some are still very fast) as the front tires are meant to pull, turn, and stop all the time and share no real work load with the rears (okay maybe 10%).

Power slide a RWD car and you will understand! :) Yah BMWs and Camaros are fine, but are not a 911 in the turns. Or a hot VW!

A true testament to the beetles handling is when Sport compact Car had their utimate street car challenge. In just the handling department there were two beetles, one a full race standard with wider rims and fenders and the other a super with new shocks and a performance anti-sway bars. The full race standard took 2nd place over all and the near stock Super took 2nd in the slolom? course... I think the WRX was in 7th place... :laugh:

The Super had a 1641 w/ Kadrons, and the suspension wasn't anything to crazy, The cars it was up against were quite the machines too. A couple of tuned RX-7's, 914-6, I think there was a Cosworth Escort, the WRX,...
Pillow is on the money, in capable hand a rear engined car is very effective on the track.

Nick

Hey BoyGenius,

What issue of Sport Compact was that article in? I would love to read it if one the web or buy a "back issue".

Thanks,

I don't remember what issue it was in it was years ago...

I'll see if my friend remembers when he bought the magazine, it was also available on tape/DVD at the time.

G Force challenge is the video. There were stories in alot of mags. from that challenge.

time to do a new one...albiet a little biased if coming from this group. :D

I'm gunna have to agree with Zen, it's time for another G-Force challenge.

Nick

Can I bring the bike... :laugh: :)