Kickbutt Street/Compeditive Track/Canyon Road Dream Car!
 

I'm curious,

What would be your dream Kickbutt Street/Compitive Track/Canyon Road fun car. IE. A car that is compitive on the track and still streetable; just this side of race. What mods would it have? Bang for buck.. budget is not unlimited, although it can be pricy.

I have had great experience with my WRX, with some mods.

Mods such as Tires,track pads, better strut and spring combo, and swaybars go far.. with a little less restrictive exhaust i.e. uppipe, downpipe and turbo back with some Engine Management it really wakes up the car..

Car is streetable, not to loud, and a whole lot of fun.. so much, my wife enjoys driving it :(

At the track it is quite good.. Can tackle and pass most cars.. your limiting factor will be the driver.. in good hands it plays well with most..

an 02-03 can be found for 16G's give or take.. about 3-5 grand for upgrades.. and your having fun.. again it all depends on what company and parts you pick..

if you have money and do not what to modify to much then the STI may be for you.. less streetable, but comes as a great package.. other in this price range also include the EVO :(

That would be my recommendation..

ALex

Plus it is a flat four.. can't go wrong with that..

I started dreaming about My dream car even before I knew what a GL was.
This was about 12 years ago. The basis would be a 69 to 74 Karmann Ghia built around a race style chassis with Porsche suspension, wheels, brakes, 5 speed transmission and a bid T4 motor or possibly even a 6 cylinder engine.

Exteriorwise, it would have Porsche 911 headlights, shaved turn signals (mounted in bumper) body colored fresh air vents, shaved chrome molding, body color bumpers, tinted windows, and an electric rear wing from a Porsche 964 mounted in the deck lid.

Interiorwise, it would have a full leather recarro seats w/ matching rear seat, Porsche style carpeting, full set of Porsche guages, hidden 10 speaker sound system with cd, DVD, & a playstation too.

One of the reasons I sold my 71 Super was because I always wanted to do this to a Ghia. I may not go with the full race chassis, but I will eventually do a Ghia with everything else listed.

Here's a pic to get an idea

Excelent cars! I'm a fan of the EVO WRX. AWD!! my goodness. make them lighter and wooh!

I was refering more to the wonderful world of VW's old cars with good platforms..

I've always like the 1302's, I never got used to the curved windsheids on the 03's, but I really like the McPherson struts. Basically what I'm doing to mine is my dream setup, beefed up front sus, 944 alloy full rear sus, 901 tranny w/914 gears, health Type IV maybe a turbo or FI down the road (since I got the sport bike I've really been enjoying have the ability to accelerate like a bullet), 944 brakes, gutted interior, sport seats, carbon dash, 944 guages, mono chromatic canary yellow paint, no stereo, 17's...what a GL is all about, a VW supercar.
I have some idea's for the 914 too; f/g trunks, f/g flared fenders, glass bumpers, and valances, 17's, bigger brakes, Porsche 3.6L, roll cage, mono chormatic white paint, carbon dash insert (thanks Carbon Joe)...914 GL.

My ultimate car is sitting in my garage right now. 944 brakes on all 4 corners. Late 944 trailinmg arms with complete 944 suspension. Built type 1 tranny. 18" turbo twists. Käfer cup brace. 914 gauges. The rest is still in the works so there is no telling what it will end up like. :laugh:

I've been wondering how you supercharge or turbocharge an aircooled. (I like the go like a bullet thing. Not only from a stop/drag but passing other cars up to say about 80MPH on the freeway.

How do you cool a boosted engine? That's more heat for the engine to take and cooling is a big issue with these aircooled engines it seems. How much boost can they take?

Another thing I'm interested in is cost to run, buy (initially) and make a reliable VW 1302 Superbeetle Supercar vs a watercooled supercar vs Honda vs toyota vs Mitsu vs...whatever vs 5.0 Mustang (do those handle :p )

If you have never driven or taken a ride in an 1800 lb. bug with 150 hp stuffed up the back of it you might want to do that before you start planning on a 300 hp powerplant. A 150 hp bug is fairly quick, not alot of stuff on the street will run with it. Stuff 200 hp in one and it is crazy quick. Add the right 5 speed to that ant is is both crazy quick and fast. 150 hp should keep all the hot Honda's and 5.0 Mustangs at bay. 200 hp should keep all the rest in your rearview.

That's prety much my goal. Best bang for buck 140-200HP whichever gets me there reliably. Is there anything wrong with having a 4 speed? My MK2 VR6 on the track I've only gone 128MPH. Don't imagine I'd need any more, as long as I can cruse and get good gas milage say..60-80. Rarely do I go faster even in the 6 (although I got pulled over going 95 at 1AM, nobody on the road and my inst cluster didn't work. I knew I was going a lil fast but it was soo smooth..) That I don't do..well intentionally.

Nothing wrong with a 4 speed.

power to weight is one of the key figures to keep in mind. the other is torque and where it comes on. some engines (rotary, T1) you won't see your power until 4.5k or higher. a TIV will come on about 2.5k. just depends what kind of driving you want to do. by the sounds of it, you lean towards the latter.

i have 176HP at the fly (will know wheels later this year) and expect weight to come in around 1800 give or take 50lbs. that puts me near 10:1. it is plenty.

since i have a standard, handling is sub-par compared to a 1302 or 1303. if i had to do over again, i would probably go 1303, but i like the uniqueness of mine (and benefit) that it is chopped and besides the weight loss i am forced to shift the center of gravity lower by moving the seats closer to the floor.

--low and wide-- :laugh:

I like that alot. What engine and tranny do you have in your car? I was looking at Massive Type 4 engines. Their nice, but it seems that 148HP is my limit with relibility. I'd love 10:1. What kind of tranny work do you have?

For the same price I can converat a CRX or boost a Miata.. but the superbeetle is all new parts

Oh I just saw you have a 2316. How much did it cost? Did you have a core to send? How long is it suposed to last? Why not the 2270 C? How do you like the engine? What's your tranny? Do any suspension work?

(one of the questions I have is how hard it is to turn the steering wheel with wide front tires, and how much pedal effort it takes to make the car stop. No power brakes or steering, but it donesn't need it..mabey)

I built my Yard Sale Type 1 at the MassIVe shop(a great learning experience). I have seen lots of nice stuff come out of there. Jake strives to stay on the cutting edge of things. My last trip up, he was getting ready to test some DLC coatings for heat and ware protection, I saw Nickies for a VW for the first time at his shop, ceramic lifters for a VW I first saw at Jakes. There is a 3L Type 4 torque monster in the works up there called project X, I have seen it in different stages. He is working on some billet type 4 heads with Type 1 exhaust ports (just plain sick). He is very close to having a roller lifter/cam to market for the Type 4. Every time I go up there it is like a trip to Mad Scientist Lab.......well I guess it is. Just when you think you have seen it all,,,,,,the twisted Marine from Cleveland GA. will show you something new.

What's the differences in cost for type 1 vs type 4? Someone told me the prices are very similer for type 1 to type 4 all the way to a mild type 4 converion (vs miald type 1)?

dont forget about my 12th and 13th post in this thread :D

I'm almost done annoying the local community.. I like to think things though when I buy a project car I'm going to put money in and drive for 5, 6 years. Gotta know what your digging youself into.. (Wish I knew that with my Nissan)

A performance type 4 exhaust is more costly than a type 1. And if you there are far fewer cheap knock off performance parts for a type 4. So if you look at top shelf parts only, it may be fairly close untill you get to the exhaust.

And where can I find some of these parts?

There are links on Jakes site. If you want to build it yourself, think about one of Jakes Kit engines. All of the mock-up and machine work has been done and the combos are tested and proven. You just have to put it together.

I might be a little late on this one but a small displacment 200hp turbo engine will definitely keep almost anything at bay. Remember hp is great but torque gets you moving. Turbo engines and type-4 engine are notorious for making tons o' torque. I'd say one of my dream cars would be the purplish bug with a 230 hp type-4. It was in VWtrends not too long ago ( someone has to remember it). Anyways It ran 12's at the track yet has been clocked on the autobahn at 150mph. Could you ask for more? I think the thing that hinders a VW from being able to accelerate like newer cars (modified WRX and GTI's) at higher speeds would be the gearbox. Blah Blah Blah... :sleep:

That's why I like the type 4's is the torque. Streetable power! just push the accelator and go, and if you really need to go downshift and push the acclerator!

Where can I find more info on turbo engines? Which is a better platform for them type 1 or type 4?


With Jakes kit I'd think that the kit would actually be more expensive then the built engine as the built engine has the induction and ignition. The kit is a longblock. From what I read the carbs are mucho money! What is the price drifference? I wonder if I could rig up a reliable turbo or eaton supercharger from a car to some 1776 type 1 or some type 4? Reliable?

I have only seen one turbo T-4 and no numbers where mentioned. You can make a 1776 make 150-160hp reliably or make a 2332 make 250-275hp reliably with a efficient turbo set-up (key word is efficient) . I imagin the torque numbers would be the same yet sooner in the RPM band. A T-4 with a turbo would probably be the ultimate street/strip/road course engine. Imagin it... smoke anything on the street(when traction permits), destroy cars on the strip and be able to beat most anything on the track(if the car can turn). In all reality its all about the combo and what you want/need.

How do you cool such an big engine? Becouse they always say that boot is like having a larger engine. How do you cool it? IE the type 4's at say 150HP all have DTM cooling or Porsche cooling?

No computers, just fuel regulator set a few points ahead of the turbo! just a little tiny tiny turbo..

DTM with nickies should be able to handle the heat.

Turbo EFI with stand alone engine manegment is the only way to go.

Yeah I mean it does say dream car! Get crazy. But really if I had money to burn I would opt for a split window bug, custom tubular frame, big turbo autocraft engine, mendeola five speed, totally custom suspension (set-up for road course), big 911 brakes all around, 17x7.5 front and 17x9 rear and interior stock except for a rollcage, buckets, couple gauges. pretty much the only thing thats original are interior items and the body. All of you elitest can kiss my arse. :laugh:

my goodness.. how about a practical dreem car. No Lambos for me! Makes me wonder how much a stock cylinder engine can take?

Mysticle, I can't stress enough that you want to figure the best you can what your use of the car is going to be. that will best dictate what you want to put in there. you can build a T1 cheaper than a TIV (HP for HP), but the quality of parts and longevity would be drastically different.

you could cut a lot of your research time and any potential waffleing (which i constantly did before going with the 2316) by just giving Jake a call and talking to him about what you are shooting for and see what kind of figure he can give you. i went with the 2316 because its powerband was a little better suited to what i wanted to do over the 2270. that is what comes with talking to Jake. keep in mind it is just his opinion and he leans to TIVs, but i think you will find him to be open and honest about what your desires are vs. what he can deliver...and then factor your budget in there too.

Um I guess thats why they call it a dream car. :rolleyes:

I'm sure prises are different between the two. Thats why it put up a red flag for me.

Although if the Type 1 costs say.. 5 bucks and they type 4 costs 6 bucks and I have to rebuild the 1 2 times in the length of the 4 mabey the 1 is better?

That why I wanted to ask about Subie/Rotory swaps. I don't know much about their power curves and granded if I did the swap I won't have all new parts. But they would be stock with more tuning potenial and still go?

My street racer includes everything in my profile. It might be a bit more heavy then stock ghia but I plan to get crackin with the carbon fibre and upgrade to a aluminum inline 4 later on. Makin a tube chassis is fun. I only have a full scale wood model right now but I plan to make it out of steel once ive collected all the tool to make my creation.

that's alot of custom work there.. just in the double A arms..

What exactly does a custom tubular chassis mean?

What are the essencial mods for a VW Supercar?

Miller, do you have any pictures of your progress so far?

Mike

He's talking about replacing the pan with a custom built race chassis made out of tubular chromoly. Much stronger & lighter then a VW Pan. This is what most drag cars/race cars do.

That's gotta be expensive. I'm suprised no one make a build your own VW kit.. You can even build the chassis..wow..

Here is an example of a tube chassis
http://www.ronlummusracing.com/rlr2/Photos/chassis.JPG

Gotcha. That is alot of custom work.

Do these cars (beeltes/superbeeltes) share any similarities with the Rear engined Porsches?

other cars I've been wonding about: BMW E30s (3 series 325, M3 etc) , 240SX, Porsche 944/924, Mitsubishi Eclipse or varient (Talon, Laser), Datson 510, BMW 2002, 5.0 Mustang (stright line anyway), Dodge Colt (Lanser), Miata, MR2, Old GMs with 350s (Monties, Comaros, Caprices, Cutlasses), New Comaro and Supras.

Those are the cars sugested to me when I went around asking what cheap go fast fun cars were. Why is there no Super Beetle here? Things seem cheep enough for it, large aftermarket parts. Granted the engines are more expenive to get HP as you have to do it all new, no real just bolt ons (IE ECU) but the cars themselves are cheaper? You can put 944 brakes on it (already people say those 944 cars stop well imagine them on a beetle) You can put WIDE tires on the beetle. I don't know about the suspension and handling but porsche uses a varient of it?

Someone also sugested E28 5 series, and Dodge Neons, and a Peugeot 505

CRX's were also sugested; If I was going to stay FWD I'd just keep the MK2 Jetta VR6.

I didn't build my car because it was cheap. I built my car because I love Aircooled VW's. I could have bought a nice 911 for what I have in mine. But my car is nice from one end to the other. and there is no schock value in being spanked by a 911. But if you are not in the know, and are spanked by a Bug you are more than likely shocked all to hell.

What all did you do to your bug? would you say you keep up with the 911s?

Once I get the 901 gearbox in it, I should have some fun with the 911's should stay with them on the short haul now, but I havn't tried one. So far I have 11 inch Brembo solid rotors and Ghia/914 callipers. MaxxStruts, saw bars, 16X6 C2 wheels/some nice tires and the 2275. This winter I should do the 901 install, strut brace and cup brace.