What does a fast VW really feel like?
 

I was talking to some ricer boys in my Auto shop class, and up came the topic of drift racing. I metioned that it would be great to see an air-cooled vw in a drift competition. They laughed saying that old vws have too much understeer to pull this off. I thought that a vw would be a great car for drifting, since its rear wheel driven, and so light, that with a serious gearbox/drive train, some decent hp (say a 2L T4), and some serious suspension mods, this thing might turn circles all day long.

So do VWs suffer from great understeer, cause I know when drifting, oversteer is the idea to get around corners like a mad man. Are there ways to increase oversteer, like setting toe in/out, camber, etc...Ive seen a video of a very cool bug, doing circles with no problem, just begging to be drifted around a corner.

I just want to know what a VW bug can, and cant do.

Once you get the rear end loose on a beetle (or a porsche 911) its not hard to keep it going.... ya got all that swingweight back there to help it keep going.

But im not sure how well it would be for drift comp

Your ricer friends are completely wrong(or afraid),on Beetle/911 oversteer are the name of the game.Some months ago there were a link that you can see silver Beetle drifting as good as anyone.Do not remember the link,if it was here or shoptalk forums. :eek:
Onix

A bug can be tweaked to handle either way -- over/under-steer. Aircooled.net has a good article on this -- http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/re...s/handling.htm.

Obviously, for drifting, you would set up the front to grip and the rear to slip.

Front grip = high neg. camber, toe out, softer sway bar than rear, more caster, high air pressure, wide tires

Rear slip = zero or positive camber, zero or toe out, super stiffer sway bar, low air pressure, narrow tires

Balancing the front and rear traction for controlled drift would be the trick.

i agree,

i don't have any understeer problems. its all oversteer. even in low second gear 2500rpm, making a left through a intersection, and feathering the gas, the rear end will want to step out (right Sandeep :) ).

i have a 1/4 inch of toe out, 1_3/4 degrees of camber, and a 235 tire on the rear.

later,
pete

I can vouch for that, my goodness what a great ride petevw. You make want to get back to the ghia project. Thanks again for a great ride.

Jamie

i`m building my bug to be a drifter. bugs can drift. a bug is hard to control but that is the challenge. :D

Here are some basic suspension tuning tips.

http://www.tech-session.com/kb/index...v2&id=106&c=53

Thanks for the link Tim.

I don't get the air pressure relationship. Seems like higher pressure would result in less grip not more as the chart indicates...

Seems to me that:
More pressure = less contact patch = less grip.
More pressure = stiffer tire = less grip.

The chart calls for lower rear pressure to increase oversteer (less rear grip).

Can anyone clarify how front/rear pressure affects grip?

Teaches you to listen to ricers. I could powerslide my stock 67 ghia and I can also get my 76 Jeep j-20 to do some pretty big drifts (I love locked rear ends). that just showes drifting isnt about the car its about the driver and the fun of it all. You can drift any car, even FWD cars can drift quite well. Maybe something is wrong with their technique?

I say no more
 

this is my bro in his 1302 (green) If pic doesnt work check this link. the green 1302 is a drifter boyz!! http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/foru...d=28873&page=3

Pete,

Your Super is a BEAST :eek: You've got power in that thing and plenty of it .. hope to have an engine with power like yours someday :D

Sandeep

Both too low and too high tyre pressure would result in less grip. Too low the pressure, only the two edges of the tyre are touching the road. Too high the pressure, only the middle part of the tyre has contact.

I think the front/rear tire pressure is also related to the weight distribution of the car.

hey
 

Thats my bros super and its only got a 1916 with about 80-90 hp at the wheels, The 2.7 T4 is being built now then there will be a hell of a lot more smoke!!! DRIFTING goes off!! its so awsome driftin 3rd gear on the race track!!

Alex

Stock suspensioned (just lowered) 1302 with a hot 1641 was not a problem wiping the tail back and forth in second gear on dry road. I used to do that to see if I can get the passenger to white knuckle the arm rest. :D

hmm.... i didn't know i had a brother :eek:
my parents have some explaining to do :laugh:

Well, my bug is a purpose built drifter and has no problem fulfilling its purpose. I dont know of the number but i have a 15in lower profile tire on there that is about 9 inches wide. I usually run it at about 20psi in the rear and 30 in the front for drifting (when i think about changing it). I dont have a whole lot of power in it, just a standard bug engine with a few goodies in it. I cant wait until i get my 13BTT rotary engine in there though. All you really need to know is that drifting in a bug is the greatest!

Sure bugs can drift.http://vw1303rs.de/images/kaefer1.jpg This guy won a drift competition at Hockenhiemring. Plus it is the sickiest 1303 of all time. Check out vw1303rs.de for more info on it. crazy machine.

Or, you can just ask all of the betle and Porsche drivers how many turns the powerslide into and out of. The thing is the driver, and how far you want to push the car. Again, with the right setup anything is possible.

I love sliding my Ghia in the snow or the rain when there's no one around. :D


Ephry

Ok, yes, the ricers dont know jack!

Last night, I was driving my friends bug, (mine has funky wiring problems right now), ne ways...74 super, stock 1600, cept for solid rocker shafts. It was about 10:30pm, not a car in sight, going about 40, I pumped the breaks a little, depressed the clutch, kept breaking, slammed it into 2nd, while I blipped the throttle, (heel-toe-breaking or something...) WOW sudden over-steer! I for sure felt it coming, and was able to hold on to it (quite well I might add)...ne ways that was my first, (well, dry pavement) "DRIFT" ever....very nice!


Oh, and as for that german drifter guy....HOLY GEE WIZ!!!....we need that guy to come to the states for some D1 competition...on DEC 11 at Irwindale (CA, BTW) there is a driver search, where (for a fee) anyone with a car can try and take on the big wigs of drifting...that would be NUTZ to see THIS bug at something like this....I need this guys e-mail...wonder if he speaks english??

Im totally jazzed right now! VWs ROCK!!

No, they dont know anything, otherwise theyd be driving a VW, DUH. :laugh:

And, yes, VWs are the worlds greatest.

http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/foru...showtopic=3544


Here's a link to a GL VW doin' alittle drifting practice drill