amplifier placement in a 1302
 

Phase Three for my 1971 Super Beetle was going to be engine and transmission with Phase Four being Part Two of the interior (gauges and stereo). Phase Two of the house renovation has taken precedence so rather than do nothing with the car, I have decided to go ahead with the stereo install since I pretty much know what I want.

I have decided to go with an Alpine head unit that is new for this year. I like its interface with an iPod (which I also need to get) as a solution over CD changers and magazines. (I will do the same with my '02 Cabrio thereby simplifying my life and joining the 21st Century at the same time.)

I will use Alpine 6x9 speakers in the rear speaker shelf that matches the Scat interior I already have. I will use 5¼-inch Alpine speakers in the front fiberglass kick panels from JBugs.

I have never been one for elaborate stereo systems at home or in the car as I am often at a loss to hear the difference between a $2,000 system I think is awfully good and a $5,000 system that makes others drool. Nevertheless, I have been talked into getting an amp for my modest little system mentioned above.

It seems obvious to me the amp must go in the front trunk area ... but where? ... and how?

I want it to be in the least intrusive area and be protected when cargo is tossed in. After the engine is done, moving the battery to the front is going to be part of the gauge install.

Any suggestions? Any pics?

a few options for you and a question

are you going to have a spare tire? if not you can build an amp rack in there, just build a rectangle box (round shaped, moon shaped, whatever looks good to you and saves space, maybe with enough room to put your battery in there too.) same depth as the amp with a hole cut into the top the same shape as the amp about a 1/4" bigger all around depending on that you are going to cover the amp rack with, carpet, leather ect.. that way you can toss stuff in the hood and not worry about wires getting pinched ripped out or whatever. just the top of the amp will show.

If you are keeping the spare, and im not real familer with a SB but i believe the fuel tank sits further back than on the older bugs? so thats really the only place it could go (spare well) without getting to involved..

but you might think about putting it behind the back seat under the parcel tray that your 6x9s are sitting on. the firewall right there is an option or on the the bottom tray, you could even still do the amp rack back there too and still be able to put stuff back there and not have to worry about it to much.

one last option is under one of the front seats or even under the back seat depending on how big the amp is and how much room is under there, like i said im not to familer with a SB.

BTW good choice to go with an amp, sound quality with one is 100 times better even if your not totaly into your stereo system, it will also make your speakers last longer..

~Mike

I installed my 4-channel under the back seat, opposite the battery. If you put it there, cover your voltage regulator so it it doesn't short out with the amp. ;)

There is a picture of ours on this page
We have a 4 channel amp, 2 6x9's and a 8"sub in a deathbox all fits behind the rear seat with room left for tools & stuff.

don't have pics, but all the amps i've had in my super have been under the front passenger seat. i've switched between one and two 12's in the space behind the back seat, driven off the amp, and a pair of 6x9's driven off the head unit. it really depends on the size of your amp though. however, with the battery up front, it would complicate wiring runs to the amp with it under the seat.

Thanks for the spirited responses. :)

Definitely, yes. I am currently carrying a doughnut. I have a full-sized spare wheel, too, but the tire on it is a fraction too large to fit into the wheel well. I haven't decided if I will go with a slightly smaller tire or stick with the doughnut.

I will want the battery up front eventually but I haven't conceived it thoroughly yet and that won't be done during this phase.


This is similar to what I would want. I guess when the battery move happens, it will be an added pain to have more distance between battery and amp but that'll be a one-shot deal. I don't think I will opt for the sub, though.


These words of support mean a lot to this novice. :)


Maybe. I would be more excited with the under-the-back-seat option if I knew I would just keep my battery there as well.

I have a lot to think about. These answers were very useful for me. :agree:

Under the front seats :D

http://members.lycos.co.uk/vdubhub/a...BoardPsngr.jpg

Because I am running aftermarket buckets I welded 2mm thick box section side to side... Amps boards fit perfectly in the gap between the front and rear seat mount.

Once seats are installed amp removal is impossible, You have to remove the seats to get the amps out :) (great for security).

Sam C

Hmmm, didn't think of the security aspect. Thanks! I've got some measurin' to do ... and about 12 days to decide (if all goes well).

If you are here for the spirit of German Look as well as the actual look, you'll want your battery and amp and anything else of any weight moved to the front of the car for handling reasons. Bugs tend to push(understeer) first, then snap oversteer as the motor weight gets going. The added weight up front will increase initial turn in and if you have oversteer, may help to keep the front end moving instead of just being the axis of rotation. The nearest to the back I would go with an amp is under the passengers seat, keeping the weight low and balancing out your weight to a degree. Bugs are notoriously tail happy, so if you can move a little weight up front, you can keep things a little better balanced. My amp, sub, sub box, battery, and X-overs will all be up front.

Jason

Absolutely. I'm right there with you.

In my opening salvo of this thread, I stated it seemed obvious to me (at that time) to place the amp up front. I also stated that moving the battery up there was something I wanted to do eventually.

There are two reasons I am not moving the battery up there now. It is an added expense I don't want to deal with at the moment while our house is being transformed. Indeed, the stereo part of the car's transformation was going to be done with the gauges, etc. of the interior, and all of that was going to be after I improved the drivetrain.

The other reason is I haven't blueprinted in my mind yet how the front trunk area is going to look. For example, I know I want a spare tire but I don't know if I am going doughnut or full-sized. I will also want an electric windshield washer pump that I haven't ordered yet. When it is all said and done, I will want as much of the front area still available for stuff.

(It dawned on me while trying to reconsider the above two reasons I actually have a third reason: I don't trust the jokers that will probably do the stereo install to do other things like moving the battery. I suppose I could buy the necessary materials and find someone who I would trust. I don't know ...)

If the amp goes in the front trunk area now, I would want it (1) protected from other stuff and (2) installed where it will stay even after future mods.

I totally agree with you on the GL aspect of this. That is one of the reasons I chose this forum over some of the others to pose this question. (Funny thing is had I purchased the 1303 I was envisioning at first and may still purchase some day, I wouldn't have a stereo of any kind ... or a back seat for that matter.)

Thanks.

Do it all yourself. "If you want it done right, do it yourself" There is a LOT of knowledge to be had on this site, and if you just ask, you probably find the answer to your questions. Sounds systems are relatively easy, and batteries are even easier.

Jason

for sure man, feel free to ask me any questions too, ive been doing stereo and alarm stuff for close to 15 years professionally, as in paying the bills and another few just hacking up my own stuff before that :laugh:

ill give you my number if you have something real specific that would take days to type out, if you are in the states ill even call you if you want, cell phones are great when thay work :p lol

Mike

When I get a house with a garage, I will. And the next house will have a garage. And it will be used as a garage; not storage for the bikes, the lawn mower and the electric belly-button lint remover waiting to be regifted.

Part of the reason we are doing house renovations is because I reject many prospective houses. At least half of my rejections are because of a lack of a garage or an insufficient garage.

I have to shell out the extra greenbacks for now. :(

I thought I was going to have some news to report. I won't give the whole blow-by-blow, but I have a concrete date for the install (this time) -- next Wednesday. I want to be sure to check in with all of the help I got. :)

I'll be around! Let 'er rip.

Jason

Do you have a list of supplies?

Jason

Yup ... stacked in the living room to my wife's delight. ;) A lot of this stuff is Martian to me so I will just report what the box says.

1 - Scat vinyl shelf for behind the rear seat matching existing interior

1 pr. - fiberglass kick panels from J-Bugs

1 - Alpine V-Power 4-channel power amp (MRP-F250) [50w RMSx4; 2 ohms, <=1% THD+N, 14.4v] (I am assuming the omega symbol stands for ohms.); [40w RMSx4; 4 ohms, <=1% THD+N, 14.4v]

1 pr. - Alpine Type S coaxial 3-way speaker system (SPS-69C3) [6"x9"; 250w peak] (for the rear shelf)

1 pr. - Alpine 5.25" speakers for the kick panels ... These had to be ordered and should be there tomorrow. The specifics are on the receipt but the receipt is locked in the car.)

2* - Alpine MP3/WMA CD receiver (CDA-9857) with "bass engine," 3 pre-amp outputs w/ subwoofer level control, 18w RMS x4, MP3/WMA decoder, Ai Net, satellite radio ready, HD radio ready, made for iPod [Power output measured at 4 ohms and <1% THD+N: S/N: 80 dBA (reference: 1w into 4 ohms)]

2* - Alpine "full speed" connection cable (KCE-422i) [for iPod]

1 - Rockford Fosgate RF Twister signal cable [for receiver to amp] (5 meters)

2 - Rockford Fosgate 16ga. speaker wire [for amp to speakers] (9 meters each)

1 - Rockford Fosgate 8ga. "amp power kit with signal and speaker" power cable "for up to 500w systems" [speaker 12 meters, signal 5 meters, power 5.2 meters)

Plus some other minor doo-dads I would call shop supplies.

(* - I have two headunits and two connection cables because I am making a straight swap in my 2002 Cabrio at the same time as all of this with my 1971 Super ... thereby making me Mr. iPod. :rolleyes: )

I think that's everything. I hope I did well. I want to feel like I am right stinking there when listening to my Trappist Monk chants. :sleep:

I know it's not the baddest system around ... not meant to be ... thought it might generate some opinions.

I will continue as planned ... pics after Wednesday's install. :)

thats some pretty good gear you have there, it should sound pretty awesome :cool:

the only thing i might recomend is boxing in thoes 6x9s you will be suprised the amount of base they will produce, it will sound good either way though. keep us updated

Good luck
Mike

No pics ... no install ... plenty frustrated.

The news the head unit will not fit in the customary position where the stock Gilligan's Island radio now resides. The unable-to-make-fit report was because:
(1) There's not enough depth behind the dash
(2) The wiper control (behind the dash) is right at the area where the enlarged cutout would be
(3) The wiper motor itself would swing down and clobber the head unit when engaged.

The '71 Super has the wiper knob on the dash. It was moved to a separate stalk for the '72 model year.

So for the moment, everything is being returned. I need to decide if I am going to let someone else take a shot at it, place the head unit somewhere else (this doodle didn't his chances at the glove box idea), or something else.

I am really locked in on wanting the Alpine unit. It is the best I have seen at controlling an iPod. In fact, I am still going ahead with the head unit swap in my '02.

I suppose if I place the head unit in another location, I am going to have to figure out what to do with the stock radio slot. One idea would be gauges, except I really don't want to do anything with gauges until after a new power plant is installed. I suppose I could just leave the AM radio in there taking up space until I cross that bridge.

The bridge I need to cross now is figure out what options I have and which is most acceptable.

I am just so amazed (and bummed) there was a problem given I have seen other DIN-sized radios in the stock position of other Beetles.

Didn't see this somehow until today. With things being rewound back into the 20th Century, I will keep this advice in mind. Thanks! I especially appreciate the support right now in my current frame of mind.

Not a happy ending ... but a happy middle ;)

A fellow at SBO! has a Jensen in his '71. I looked up the dimensions of his particular unit and mine. The two units share the same height and width but the Jensen actually has 5/8" more depth to it than the Alpine I want.

I called up my mechanic of 18 years to get a recommendation for an installer. Lo and behold, they are going to do it. :) This is very out of the ordinary for them to do this kind of work. I am very happy because I trust these people implicitly and they know how, um, particular I am.

June 6th is the drop-off date. I will attach the suggestions from here, highlighted of course. Hope to have pics that next weekend. Where's the fingers crossed smiley? :laugh:

Keep us posted on the project. For some reason I was thinking you might be installing it yourself. If you have questions about doing anything yourself, just ask. Your parts list seemed pretty decent.

Regarding the head unit, I've very happy with mine being in the glove box. Keeps it safe, and you can make anything fit in there.

Jason

Most things beyond oil changes or tire rotations will be uncharted territory for me until I get a garage. I did have the opportunity to assist with the suspension/brake project at my longtime mechanic's place of business on a couple of weekends way back when. Someday I'll be more of a DIY'er ... maybe when I get a 1303.

Since I have to repurchase everything, I have two more questions.

(1) Do I really need the amp? The reason I ask is my 2002 Cabrio had a head unit swap with the exact same Alpine I want to get for my Super. If I have the volume up to just the half-way point, it is blasting me out of the car. I can only imagine going that high if I'm cranking The Who's Live at Leeds at 80 MPH with the top down.

(2) Should I consider switching from a generator to an alternator? I was going to ask this when it came time for the drivetrain upgrade but since this electrical, I thought maybe it was worth asking now. I guess the three choices in answers are (i) yes, now, (ii) yes but wait until you upgrade the engine and transmission, and (iii) no, as long as everything is okay, don't bother.

Regarding question one: If you really don't have an ear for sound, you'll probably going to think the head unit power is fine. If you are a little particular (which it sounds like you are) you will definately want an external amp. As the volume increases with head unit power, the amplifier output generally gets dirtier and dirtier. Because of this you also increase the chance of blowing speakers, as they are trying to duplicate the dirty siganal but physically can't, overheat and blow. It is MUCH easier to blow a speaker with too little power than with too much.

I would leave things the way they are for now, unless problems develop, but definately replace it with and alternator when you do the motor work.

Jason

Boy, ask 5,000 simple questions and quickly get slapped with a label. :D

Seriously, I want to do the right thing but I was wondering if the Best Buy sales doodle was getting me to overpurchase.

I had never heard that before. Very interesting.

Thanks for all of your answers. :)

Tis true.

Distorted signal with have clipping, much like a square wave where the very tops and bottoms get chopped off... Causes lots of damage very quickly.

Too much power can be managed, too little is a receipe for disaster. Lots of power generally = lots of control = nice crisp sound.

Too much power cooks voice coils if over done, but would be LOUD... Set the gain somewhere sensible if you have 100 watt rms speakers and a 300 watt rms per channel amp... Around a third would be a good starting point...
Ideally you setup with an ossicilioscope so you can get max power without clipping.

Its well worth the effort, nice sounds is good but superb sounds are even better!

My kit:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/vdubhub/a...DMAX12D4_2.jpg
Thats an IDMAX 12 D4 ;)

http://img.shopping.com/cctool/PrdIm...f/20301199.JPG
Those are CDT Eurosport 620's...

All in my car and it sounds wonderful! VERY crisp and controlled, with plenty of tight bass and it drops down low too...

If you need ANY advice/guidance with your install feel free to drop me a line, have been doing this stuff for years.

And remember, 80% of the sound comes from a GOOD install.. Cheap kit can sound like a million dollars if installed properly, and the reverse is true... Good kit can sound nasty if installed badly.

Keep the faith.

Cya,
SaM C

Hey Samcat, I thought I had over kill in the bass department! That thing looks huge! I have a JL 12W7 and I regretted getting it when I opened the box, the mass is crazy. One is more than I need! :laugh:

I have just found this topic. Here is a picture of a nice install...but I don't know if it's a super or not.

That is an impressive install. There is also a lot more going on there than what I will have.

I have decided after going over all of the suggestions here, at two other sites I frequent, and from two other sources to do the following:
(1) use planned head unit in AM radio slot
(2) use planned speakers in kick panels and rear shelf
(3) use planned amplifier under rear shelf
(4) move amp and battery forward when engine gets done
(5) make any other changes when amp and battery are moved

I have back-up plans if they become necessary.

I decided I cannot effectively make dash plans with gauges and such until I know if the head unit is going into the AM radio's slot as planned. The dash plans are not that much of a priority at the moment because engine and transmission are next.

I do not have the front trunk area figured out yet. I do know I want the battery and amp up there eventually but I also would like to maximize the available limited area for carrying stuff.

It is a German Looker in spirit so I do want function to be a key. It is also a co-daily driver so it has to fulfill those functions, too.

Thanks for the pic. When the day comes my amp and battery are up there, I want it to look that nice.