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GL 1303S project from Romania
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Hi guys, I finally feel confident enough to start up a project thread for my bug here, on the GL forums. It's a late start, but I wanted to learn stuff better before I apply it, and I have to thank you all for that.
The germanlook style fit my dreams and my ideas like a glove, an I've dreamt of a bug that I'd work on, ever since I was a child. I only got one last year, at the age of 25, but I'm a VW forum lurker ever since I can remember having a computer, and I'm happy that I've waited until now, mostly because the bug I bought was in such a good shape, and also, that now I mostly know what to do to it. I'll be posting pictures here, progress and thoughts. In the meantime, here's my bug, as it looked like last year in may, when I bought it. It's a '73 1303S ('74 model with 2 bolt struts), and I knew about it for 1 year before I finally got it. |
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Ok the main reason why I wanted a bug in such a good shape was that I wanted to drive it and enjoy it eaven before I'd start working on it. And that's what I did!
Last year I've been all around the country with my bug, and it's been great! Nothing broke down, and it ran awesome. With a few exceptions: at some point the carb got some dirt in it and I decided to do a carb overhaul, so I bought a kit, and did it myself. After that the speedometer cable tip got worn (the square part rounded up) and I exchanged it. Oh, and the verry first job I did on the bug was to clean and paint the rims, and to install the chrome hubcaps, because the previous owner had some ugly hubcaps on it. That's what it looked like before I got it: |
It looks clean and nice! The '74 with the 'Golf' struts is a good year for a GL to start with ;)
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Thanks, it's as close as I could get to the car I had in mind. My prefferate car out of all the bugs is the '75 with the r&p steering. but then again, the r&p conversion can be made into a nice project
To continue the story, before I bought my bug, I had no technical experience whatsoever, and almost everything I knew about beetles was from the internet. That's why I wanted to take it slow, and that's why the first steps I took towards the GL were a few easy ones: First of all I took off those ugly "sport" mirrors and installed the original chrome one. If it's not GL than let it be stock :P And then I got 2 smoked taillights. http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4...2165hb2.th.jpghttp://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5...2166ti8.th.jpghttp://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4...2174oa7.th.jpghttp://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6...2177nt4.th.jpghttp://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6...2207ha2.th.jpg Then I bought "clear 3 chamber" headlights, with turn signals incorporated in them. I didnt relocate the turn signals yet because it would look strange still haveing the ones on the fenders too. http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/590...2187gr2.th.jpghttp://img88.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gifhttp://img88.imageshack.us/img88/339...2192hv3.th.jpghttp://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1...2193ej7.th.jpghttp://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2...2195ge3.th.jpg |
When I installed the new headlights I realised the high and low beam were inversed, so when I turned on the headlights they were already on hi, and when I was using the high beam. you couldnt see much difference.
After I fixed it, I was a bit dissapointed about the quality of light. The fact that I already had a plan, maybe contributed to that :P So I bought a HID conversion kit. It's not a bi-xenon. Only the low beam is HID, and the high beam is halogen, but it's ok. I don't disturb the incoming traffic at all, and the light is awesome. You can see one HID and one old halogen headlight in the last pic. http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5...2215ap2.th.jpghttp://img383.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gifhttp://img376.imageshack.us/img376/5...2216or5.th.jpghttp://img376.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gifhttp://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6...2219wf7.th.jpghttp://img376.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gifhttp://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3...2221ad0.th.jpghttp://img204.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gifhttp://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2...2222mh0.th.jpghttp://img231.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif |
Wow, quite a difference in light output!!! So Halogen low, HID high? Where did you get that from?
Jason |
no, all the way around: HID low(the one that you commonly use), and halogen High.
I only bought it like this because it was cheaper and easier to come around last year. Nowadays things have changed and you can buy a bi-xenon kit for a fair price. I got mine from a friend's tuning shop, but I'm sure you can easily find a kit on ebay or a parts store. ;) A few pics with the car after the snow melted away last spring: http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5...2180hv9.th.jpghttp://img524.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gifhttp://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1...2188cd7.th.jpghttp://img524.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif |
As spring came I started driving my bug more and more, but something felt wrong so I sent my carb to have it reconditioned and the guy did and awesome job.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...5.jpg~original After that I had to take our equivalent of the MOT so I had to do a complete brake system overhaul. That was my biggest job on the bug at that time. Then I found an ad about a couple of type4 engines, so I went and bought a 2000cc CJ engine. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...1.jpg~original After that I started gathering parts to do a Cali conversion, thinking I wont have enough money to get a porsche style cooling system. But I put that project on hold for a while. In may, me and my girlfriend went to Hannover at the Maikaefertreffen, as my birthday present. I can't describe how nice that was. I didnt have too much money to spend for parts in Germany, but I had to get something for my bug, so I got an antenna because mine was broken, and also a "Quick-shift kit" that I installed and it's great. You can see all the pics I took HERE Shortly after we came back, there was a beetle meeting in my country, in the city of Timisoara, so we went there too. It was great fun. Pics HERE I found something that I wanted for a long time at that meeting: a pair of Opel Manta side mirrors. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~original And that was one of the last times I drove my bug, because something pretty nice happened... |
... I managed to find a Porsche enthusiast that had a donor 1989 Porsche 944, and the only thing he wanted to use from that car was the dashboard and interior parts.
At first I only went there and got the seats. They need new upholstery but they are ok. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...9.jpg~original But then I started thinking: dude! how often do you find a Porsche 944 in Romania to get the parts you want from it? So I took a trip to that guy again and bought everything I thought I would use. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...1.jpg~original And that's where the real work started on my bug. I work alone, I don't have a garage, and I dont't have any mechanical experience, so things go very slowly. But I'm happy with how things are going, and I'm enjoying every second I'm working on my bug. I have to thank everyone that contributed to these forums, everything I do on my bug is inspired from the web, mostly from here. I'm trying to take alot of photos, to give something back to the comunity. All my albums can be found at this link: PRESS HERE FOR ALL MY ALBUMS I know the titles are in romanian, but everything is laid up in a chronological order, so it's gonna be extremely easy to go through. I hope you guys will enjoy the pics, and I'm very open to suggestions, discussions, ideas, any kind of chat and feed-back. |
And this is where I am at the moment:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...4.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...9.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...7.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~original I cleaned, inspected, painted and mounted every porsche part onto position, including the wheels. It's easier this way, because seeing it take shape motivates me, and it's also makes me realise exactly what else I need next. The back end is almost done, as I found drive axles too, I've installed the urethane bushings, the bump-stops. All I need and I'm waiting for is the hand-brake adaptors. And the porsche sway-bar mounting kit. In the front things are more complicated, as I need to get custom struts. I ordered the kerscher ball-joints. Now I'm cleaning the sway-bar and the a-arms and installing the urethane bushings. |
Ok the handbrake is perfectly working again, thanks to the Vdub engineering conversion parts, thanks Lanner!
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...6.jpg~original I pulled the old master cylinder out of the car. It turned out it wasnt the correct 1303 MC, it was a dual circuit old style beetle MC, altho this wasnt a problem. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...1.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...9.jpg~original Now I'm in the process of adapting the 944 MC to the bug. I know everything I have to do, thanks to all the info you guys posted about this on the forums. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...6.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...7.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...9.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...7.jpg~original Still, there is something that's not clear. I've read all the opinions, arguing, debates etc :P about the 944 MC and the brake bias, but I'm still not sure if it's a good idea to reverse the pipes to the MC, front pipe to rear piston, and rear pipe to front piston. It would be much easier bolting them on like that, and not doing some extra plumbing but I have to know for sure it's a good thing to do... |
The front pipes must go to the rear piston i.e. the one closest to the pedal and the rear brake line to the front piston. The reason for this is that the rear piston has only a hydaulic connection with the front piston so that when you press the pedal the rear piston pressurises its circuit and then pressurises the front piston. Usually the front brake pistons are larger than the rear so that the front brake m/c piston needs to move further potentially that the rear piston. If you plumbed it the otherway round the rear brake would hydraulically lock everything up before the front got to anywhere near its full travel.
evilC |
yes, that's what I thought. Still, there are a few people on this forums that plumbed it the other way around. I think Wally did it too. Am I right?
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Yeah, but I plumbed it back and actually removed the 944 MC all together and used a bug 19/19 MC again ;)
My thinking is that larger diameter MC brakes with less force and if you don't realy need the lesser pedal travel, you better use the smallest piston for the most pressure inside the MC. More pressure= lesser brakepedal effort= harder braking. |
I think that would only be true if the calipers were the same size front/rear, and if the 19mm would push enough fluid to succesfully move the big NA 944 front caliper pistons.
Your thinking makes perfect sense, but imho the total volume of the pistons inside the calipers at full braking (expanded the most / brakes locked) has to be equal or lower to the volume of the piston inside the MC when pedal is released. If it's bigger then there's a big problem. So yes, the lowest volume MC piston is the best, but there's a lower limit, and there's also a higher limit, to the point where brake effort is too high, and pedal travel is extremely small. The question is: does the 19mm MC fit somewhere above that lower limit? Ofcourse on the street/track you could get great results, and good braking because the bug is so light. And the second question is: what does that do to the rear, lower volume calipers? Probably locking them too early. That's just my late night thinking, and the only fluid dynamics classes I took were in college, so I could be very wrong. Anyway I'll just do the extra plumbing and mount the MC the normal way. Thank you for your response, I apreciate it. |
I've tried to stock 19mm dual circuit MC with 944NA brakes, and it doesn't work well. Not enough volume. You need the 944MC for the NA brakes. With aluminum brembo's, the stock 19mm works extremely well.
Lanner |
The original standard m/c for the 944 was a 19/19 unit that was later changed to 23/19 and that is the one that most people refer to as the 944 m/c. Fluid volume is not really the issue with a fully working system with good lines and fresh fluid (well bled). The basics of hydraulic advantage is that the pedal effort is multiplied by the area of caliper pistons (2No.) / area of mc piston. The stand off of the pad from the disc is very small so as minimise pedal travel. The main effects on pedal travel are hose bulge and water/air in the system that then compresses.
On a bug with a larger caliper piston area at the front than on the rear the stepped m/c can be of some advantage as the desireable brake bias is unity i.e. the braking effort front and rear should be about the same. The larger m/c piston is around 45% larger in area than the smaller piston and therefore gives 2/3rds the fluid pressure than the rear line. evilC |
Yeah, that too :D
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I've just speaking from my experience. The 19mm stocker didn't feel right with the 944NA brakes, the pedal travel was too deep. Everything on the car was new/rebuilt, with fresh fluid in the system. It would brake, but you felt the need to pump the pedal to get the required volume. Swapped it over for a 23/19 MC and it was amazing. Tall pedal + great clamping = driver confidence. The 19mm MC worked, but the 23/19 worked MUCH better.
So, the question boils down to this: Has anyone used a 19mm stock MC on a 944 NA brake system with good success? Lanner |
Nice looking car!
Like your kind of diary style writing btw :) Quote:
If so, how does the light coming through the lens look? I'm looking for a clean way to integrate my turn signals into my headlights, but I heard the light quality coming out of these isn't all that good. |
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What rear calipers are you running? Quote:
evilC |
Sorry to jack the thread, but just to share my experience. I've tried a few setups with different masters:
944NA with 19mm stock dual circuit- pedal too low, but works 944NA with 23/19, very nice, tall pedal, good actuation. 944T with 23/19, pretty good, but hard pedal, amazing actuation. 944T with 19mm dual, about perfect. 986S with 19mm dual, amazing. easy pedal and will pop your eyeballs out of the socket. 964 C2 with 23/19, good, but could be better. Probably 20mm dual circuit from a 911 would be best. I've never tried mixing NA and T components on the same vehicle, so I don't have any feedback to share. All the above setups were tested on a 1302 beetle or split window bus. Lanner Quote:
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stock 944 NA front brakes and standard 19mm m/c I found I didn't get enough travel (pedal was bottoming out), maybe if they were all fully bedded in they would get borderline acceptable?
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thanks for all the input guys, I really apreciate it.
@ $aint: thank you, I really hope I can bring something back to this great comunity. About the headlights, yes they are the same as those on Cip1, but mine have clar glass all the way. So the light output is awesome.. much better than a new car, but not disturbing the incoming traffic. They are made all out of plastic and the overall quality is not that good, but acceptable for now. There is that problem about having to remove them if a light bulb gets blown, but Xenon headlights should hold much much longer than halogen ones. (at least in theory). About incorporating the turn signal bulbs in them, I wanted to do it too, but now I think it's not a very good idea. The radius from where they can be seen would be too small. Instead of that, I want to incorporate fog/city lights in them, and place the turn signals in the bumper. |
You have a really clean car. I am enjoying your reading about your progress.
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thank you, I'm happy to hear that :)
I made some more progress last week. I decided to make the custom brackets for the rear Porsche stabilizer bar, and I copied the Kerscher design. They didn't come out as nice as the german ones, but they worked ok. The lower part, where the bushing stays is actually the original piece that I removed from the Porsche torsion bar housing. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...4.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...8.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...2.jpg~original I assembled the Porsche drive axles, with Beetle CV joints to one side and Porsche CV joints to the other. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...6.jpg~original |
And the Kerscher ball-joints came with the mail, so I went to a shop to replace the original ones. I also drilled the hole in the spindle, for the speedometer cable. It came out very nice. And I installed the urethane bushings into the A-arms.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...5.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...4.jpg~original http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...5.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...9.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~original |
This goes to Wally and the other guys living in the Netherlands: I just got tickets and I'm gonna spend Christmas (23Dec-27Dec) with my girlfriend and brother in Hague and Amsterdam.
I've checked the keversite website, but I can't understand much of it. (other than the fact that there's alot of activity in the netherland's aircooled world) I want to know if there's something bug/aircooled related that's worth visiting in that area. The Paruzzi store seems close... maybe it's worth going there. Anything else interesting? (kieft&klok maybe?) Oh, and I'd love to meet you and see the white bug and the 411. Thanks ;) |
Haven't done much to the bug lately... Master brake cylinder is in now, so are the drive axles. I had to shorten that pedal push rod that goes into the MBC about 1cm.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...4.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...2.jpg~original And I changed the gear coupler bushings. I'm extremely happy with the results, but I will have to change that bushing in the tunnel too, to get everything perfect. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...8.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...2.jpg~original I will have to order the custom struts soon, but it's not on my priority list with christmas/new year and all. I've ordered a full braking hard lines kit, after I tried to re-route one of them and it broke in my hand. Oh, and I cleaned the Porsche R&P steering, to be able to handle it without getting my hands dirty. It's a challenge but I really want to try and make it work... we'll see if I'm gonna get anything good of it. If not, then I'll probably settle for a stock post '75 1303 R&P. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...4.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...5.jpg~original Still waiting for a response to my previous post, if any1 in knows anything and is willing to share :p |
Xellex, are you convinced about using the porsche rack? i have a couple of queries:
1) The porsche rack looks as though it will give a huge amount of bump steer as the pivot point is too far outboard for the pivot point of the lower suspension arm. 2) I would have thought that utilising a power steering unit will be overkill for such a light front end and you will lose all feel. A standard steering rack would be the way to go and it should be quick enough for most circumstances. evilC |
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well I'm not 100% convinced, but if I have it, why not give it a try... If the results are not gonna be ok, then I switch back to the stock steering and try to source a late 1303 rack.
Yes, I've read about the bump-steer problem alot all over the aircooled forums, but I've never actually heard it/read it from someone who has really done it. The pivot point is actually not that far out, compared to the stock 1303 pivot point (not r&p version). I'm gonna get exact measurements, and yes, I realise only a few mm could matter for a good or bad setup. Right now, it looks like everybody is saying "don't do it, yo're gonna get bump-steer!" based on calculations, maybe engineering studies or experience, or just a hunch (did I spell that right?) ....At least I'm gonna be the one to say "Don't do it, I've already tried that and it sucks!" :p There's a subaru powered bug featured in the 2008 Kaefer Revue Magazine that has this conversion, and it looks like it's working. And yes, mine is the power steering unit, but w/o a pump, it should be just like the normal one. I'm not planning on using a pump for the start at least. I've read everything I could find on steering setups and the bump-steer effect, but it's not much. If you guys can point me to some more info, I would be grateful. I'll take into consideration everything you guys might have to add, pros or cons. The first thing for me too is safety.. That's for sure! The only other porsche rack setup, I found, besides the one in that magazine would be in these 2 pictures, but I can't remember where they are from: |
I could be very wrong, but I think bump-steer has more to do with the position of the rack (height, forward/rearward pos. and perfect paralelism to the ground axis) than it has to do with the length of the tie-rods, compared to the length of the a-arms. Of course, as long as the tie-rods are the same length left-to-right, not like the older beetle steering systems.
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Your first photo is an excellent example of what I am commenting on. You will see that the rack pivot point is much closer to the wheel than the track arm pivot point. When the suspension compresses the rack tie rod and the track arm move through different arcs therefore the 'king pin' moves much less to the centreline of the car than the steering arm end, thus it will pull the steering arm inwards causing the wheel to toe-in. If the bump is on one side only the vehicle will turn away from the bump (bump steer).
The position of the rack is influential and difficult to assess without extensive 3-D modelling either by CAD or a physical 3-D model I suggest you read Allan Staniforths book on the subject for a better and more detailed overview:- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Competition-.../dp/185960644X |
Man, I can't believe it's been so long since the site went down! Take an average of 20 times a day checking if it's back up, and multiply it to the days passed, and you get a mad man :mad2:
I've made some progress on my bug too. I gave up on the idea of using the Porsche rack, but still, I decided to try someting just a little bit different. More on that later. I mounted some small stuff on the bug, like a 3rd brake light, some mounts for the front licence plate, that move it under the bumper, I replaced all the brake plumbing, I also replaced that bushing inside the tunnel, for the shifter linkage, I installed the flip-it bushings. Pics in my album, link is in my signature. And most importantly, my front suspension came, and it's awesome! It's the LA Performance set, for late 944 spindles. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...7.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...4.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...2.jpg~original And after a long time, the bug can sit on all it's 4 wheels again! http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...1.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0.jpg~original If you look closely in the suspension pics, you can see the rack mounts that I'm trying to make, using the original pre '75 steering box mounts. Right now it's only a mock-up. The rack it's self is from the Audi 100 / Audi A6 Typ 44. It's almost the same as the late 1303 one, but the mounting points are different and the splined shaft has the same diameter, but more splines. The model that I chose also has power steering, but I'm probably not gonna use it. There are a few little problems that I have to solve somehow but I'm confident it's gonna work. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...8.jpg~original |
I am way into this thread. I can't wait to see what comes of the Rack and Pinion setup...
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hehe thanks! :D
Actually Lee, I have a small question for you. I just noticed something in a picture of the white bug that you're currently building (which is awesome by the way). It seems like half the bottom of the trunk is raised by a few centimeters. Am I right? Is that something normal for the r&p bugs? I'm asking because looking at my bug, it's impossible to fit a r&p without cutting exactly the part that seems to be raised in your pic. And another question for everyone that lowered their bugs: what's the maximum suspension travel (when it's compressed) before the lower arms hit the r&p or something else? Do we need to prevent that by using some bump stops on the struts, or it's not gonna happen? |
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Thats all I know about this. |
Hi guys! I made some more progress since the last update. Now the steering rack brackets are ready, and the rack is on. The brackets are a little thin, so maybe I'll copy them in a thicker material if needed.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...7.jpg~original I used the u-joint shaft from a VW Golf, but I changed it's rack-end with the Audi one. In the second pic, starting up to down, late Porsche 944 shaft (and I think it's the same for the late post '75 VW1303), then Golf2, pre '75 1303, and Audi 100. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...1.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...9.jpg~original The tie-rod assemblies are Audi 100 C4. The length is perfect. I didnt manage to drive it yet because I can't get it out on the street... a mountain of construction sand is blocking my way out, so I have to wait a few weeks. And I'm in the process of making the power steering work too :D I mounted an electrical power steering pump, from the Vw Polo/lupo or Skoda Fabia or Seat Ibiza/Cordoba. The pressure lines are in too, I didnt manage to start it yet, it needs some wiring, a sensor mounted on the steering column and a good electrician to sort it all out. http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...9.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...1.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...5.jpg~original Don't start asking me why I needed power steering.... its a challenge... I just want to see if I can do it :d |
and another quick update: I split them like this because the forum says there are too much pics in the same post or something.
I got a few parts from the "Maikaefertreffen" in Hannover: An original key, and a VW1303 keychain, 4cm widened front fenders from Kerscher Tuning, a front bumper with holes for the turn signals, and some clearglass turn signals, and for the first time since I have the car, Running boards! Everything is already on the car :D http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...2.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...3.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...8.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...9.jpg~original http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...2.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...5.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...6.jpg~originalhttp://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...2.jpg~original "Too many pics" message again haha :p |
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