And you thought "Big Reds" were big
 

Hey just letting you in on the first pics of my project. I had to mount these as soon as I got them. This is a huge step for my bug.

I can't really put this into perspective on how huge these things are and i know every one is differant but humor me. Hold up you right arm horizontally with your hand in a fist, look at your knuckles then your elbow... and that's how big the caliper is. Really. I have to use 18's to clear em'.

These are off the front of a 2005 Porsche Cayenne turbo. The setup on that suv are the 6 pots up front with a 14" rotor, and 4 pots out back with a 12.5" rotor, and all reviews say that they are to say the least, "grabby". I'm going a little over kill and doing the 6 pots front and rear (who needs an e-brake? :haveadrin ). Engineers at Porsche explained that the mono-block style brakes are designed to stop the 6500 pound suv from 165 mph, yep 165, with out a hint of fade. And also stop a 7800 pound trailered load (with out helper brakes) from 90 mph without a problem. I think these won't have any troubles stopping my 1800 pound beetle :rolleyes: .

All i can say is lanner is the man. He let me know whats going on every step of the way. The craftsmanship is second to none. The machined billet aluminum hubs that he made are incredible. Its a shame I have to hide it behind the rotor. Contact him now and maybe you'll be the first to put 8 pot's on a beetle (brembo makes em'). Put some brakes made by lanner to match the power of your T4, you won't regret it (944 sliders to Cayenne 6 pots, they all make a huge differance in performance and lanner does them the best). Vdubcustoms.com or 905.302.3087 Call him, he's the nicest guy to work with.

These are going to be complimenting the front and the rear of my std. 74' Type 1.

The plans for the car are;

550 hp.

6 speed G-50.

1.0 lateral g in handleing (GT2,Enzo,CGT...the elite).

Run a mid 10 second quarter mile.

160 mph and be at least some-what stable.

You get the idea.

I don't know how to post the pictures on the thread but here are the attachments.

Thanks for looking,
Russ

Any comments/advise without killing my hopes of 160 mph, is appreciated.

By the way the "182" picture... I'm really lame. I didn't even look at which pictures I was posting on the "world wide web", but apparently its a public place, and there i am posing for a picture in my garage at 2 am having my girlfriend take a picture. At least it gives you a perspective on how big the brakes are :confused: .

:eek:
sweet is the word that comes to mind :)

Overkill is what comes up in my mind.





You have to use some good reduction-stuff otherwise you're not bracking but gliding al the way.

Be careful when approaching intersections and riding when the road is even REMOTELY wet. That kinda braking, without the weight on the rubber for friction will cause a lock-up. I don't care how wide your contact patch is, it will skid. Dry or not.

I was actually one of the people considering 8 pots, but I remembered my CRX with Integra Big Brake kit days in the rain at at intersection with hard braking (residues that drop from the car at stoplights=unfriendly braking surface, which is why when you ride a motorcycle, you're told to ride on the sides of the lanes). My car was too light for the 12inch rotors), and weighed ALOT MORE than my beetle. In the dry they were fantastic, and even then would lock up. And weren't even Porsche Brembo's....

I would be EXTREMELY careful...people underestimate how dangerous brakes too big can be as well...it's the reason I chose 944Turbo brakes...big enough to where I could have better stopping power than all 4 drums and having only front brakes hooked up, but nothing too outrageous for a daily driver. And with the fat contact path of 8.5 fronts and 10 rears, I think I maximized my stopping/friction coefficient. That, and I'm not a fan of stickers on my calipers, lol.

That insane...super props to you for doing that, but just be careful when driving it....

You've definately pegged the WOW meter for looks, I'm afraid you might be saying, wow, this sucks to drive. They weigh a lot more than needed, so your sprung weight is way up, and they are soooooo much more than is needed to stop a light car that I don't know if they will even warm up! If your doing it for looks, you're on the right path and they look AWESOME! But if you are doing it to drive, I think you might be on the wrong path.

Jason

Just to let you know that there is no way in hell I would ever drive a 550 hp 1800 lb. rear wheel drive car in the rain. Never mind the braking factor.

I don't see a problem of sprung weight because if you look at the ultima gtr (the fastest production car on the planet, 10.5 @ the 1320, 0-100-0 in 10.3 sec, and 1.176 in lateral G's) has simalar style brakes on a 2000 pound car (it's also street legal), and obviously by the #'s it doesn't have any problems getting around. On top of that, brembo's 8 piston setup is for the front of 993 and 996 cup style cars that weigh closer to 2500 lbs..And my car will probably end up being 2000 lbs., with a turbo charged inline 4, 6 speed g-50, 993 rear end, and these brakes.

I wouldn't have gotten something this big if i thought they would be counter productive. The caliper is suprisingly light weight.

Endless brake company makes a 12 piston, 17" rotor brake setup for the front of SUV's that want to fill up there whole wheels with brakes when using 22's and up. That i might add would be counter productive.

Also, the rotors will be crossdrilled.

Check out how wide the rotor is, 1.3" thick!

Contact patch will be 255/18's up front and 315/18's out back. Anything to get 1.0 lateral g's.

Moto of the German Look Style of tuning: FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. Not the other way around.

The ultima is also not a VW, and any idea how much the ultima costs? I'm all for getting nuts, but brakes are just one of the variables in an almost unlimited number of them for the project you have in mind. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, I'm just trying to inject a bit of reality. If you are going to give everything you do on this project the same type of overephasis, you will end up with a bug that costs $100k. Look at Bader Racing's Ghia, do you think they make a lot of sales or a lot of money with those? It's awesome, but pricey.

Jason

Me likes, me likes! :eek: I'm poor so i'll probally just end up using my 944 N/A calipers. Don't look cool like the Brembo counter parts but will do the job.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 

I realize i'm putting a lot of money into the car. It's going to cost at a bare minimum of $25,000. This car is actually my first car and I have an attachment to the car that most would think is crazy. I will never sell the car even if i'm in financial trouble. EVER.

I have based a lot of my life in making sure i can make the project go smoothly (aka emergency money in savings).

I expected criticism, but not from other people who are doing similar things to there Dubs. I will have proportioning valves on both the front and rear circuits, as well as the expirtise of Lanner. I have no doubt that with Lanners advise, the setup will be nothing short of well balanced and very streetable.

Thanks a lot for all the input, i'll include pictures of other similar overkill additions to my project in due time.

Russ

We're not saying it's crap...it's FAR FROM it...it's just a little counter productive.

The Porsche's with the 8 pistons are also slowing from insanely fast speeds. Also, those Porsche's have perfect braking surfaces at all times, with a track that's also heated with racing tires. Granted you will have the motor to make up for the unsprung weight, I'm just saying the car will not be "streetable". As the brakes will be a little too strong.

Another thing I was looking at was pan/frame fatigue. Unless you go semi-or tube chassis, you might want to look into getting your shell AND pan reinforced as the lateral braking forces will deifnitly put a strain on the thin gauge metal. The Beetles pan/shell wasn't designed for that brutal of a stress. I mean, the forces a motor puts out in terms of twist from the HP/TQ of a motor is FAR LESS than that of 6 pots under full braking force, and you need all sorts of braces/reinforcement for 250HP....

But it's DEFINITLY a sick thing you got going on....just things to think about.

Hey thanks for all of the suggestions.

Point #1-The Cayenne has a brake booster.
Point #2-I'm using proportioning valves on both front and rear circuits to make it more street friendly.
Point #3-The car WILL be used every day as a daily driver.
Point #4-You guys are awesome for all the input
Point #5-The chassis will be fully reinforced from the front to the motor mounts with a 14 point cage, and the heater channel replaced with square cro-moly tubing.
Point #6-The car will be used for circuit races as a new track is being built by Larry H. Miller in Toele, UT. (about 1/2 hour away), so the car is obviously going to be a little over kill.

Those are "F___ing" big. My 2 pot ghia brakes on all 4 stop like hell (although not repeatedly, ala auto-X). Those are more than likely over-kill,,,,,, but they sure do look cooooooooooooool. Be carefull.
One thing is for sure.
You will never suffer from "Brake Envy". :laugh:

Lazy ... those are some Bad *** brakes ... no doubt.

With my Big Red fronts and 930 rear setup and 235/265 tires, braking is incredible. Enough to slide the glasses I wear from my head and into the windsheild from an 80 - 0 (mph) stop ... and I can do that repeatedly because the brakes will not overheat :D

Braking is a little sketcky in the wet .. I REALLY have to be careful because the brakes lock up easily. I think this is not because of the brakes but because of the tire widths on a light car in the rain. It sure does stick in the dry though. :agree:

I have not noticed any ill effects from the weight of my wheels/tires due to heavy unsprung weight and the highway ride at 190 kph (fastest I have gone, clear highway) is 1000 % better than my drum brake setup. The car feels SOLID at that speed and I would drive that fast if that was the speed limit because I feel the car is stable.

You are on the right track :cool:

Sandeep

Nice!
Also, good job of taking the critizism. Ultimately, you build it the way you want with knowledge and advice from all fronts. You can't say you didn't know about the possibility and it might help you modify some choices down the road if you keep the warnings in the back of your mind.
Everyone made strong points and Deep backed up opinions with "this is what my big brakes actually do".
Get that rig on the road and tell us how ridiculous the brake choice was :D .


... also, I can not believe Jason brought up spending too much money! :laugh: