Turbocharged...
 

hey guys,
is there anyone know any article or site contains a detailed turbo installation(beside vwtrends) for the beetle, cuz i'm stuck in the middle now and have problems above my knowledge,,,...
my fuel pump, i will remover it from it's location to fit the oil support to the turbo, so i will go for a electrical one, what i should consider when i buy one, and how can i adjust it to feed the system propably,...
and i have 2 options in the turbo fiting, the draw-through and the blow-through, witch one is better, and what is the adv. and disadv. of both...
plz guy support me with infos or links, i know my question is alot but ur experts and u really know what ur talking about...
thank's...

Have a good hunt around the shoptalkforums, here http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewfo...8291899422a8e5

Probably loads of answers to your questions.

Are you thinking carby turbo or EFI?

And also lots of interesting info here http://lowbugget.com/1600t.html
and check out http://www.dune-buggy.com/turbo/enginebasics.htm

Good luck

carby, i think i will get a weber 40 for the job, and i just heared that the draw-through type is more reliable in our engines(carberated aircooled), just need an electric pump(i will get it from any car)...
but i have a very important question, i think we should all know before adding a forced induction system to our weak aluminium engine, what is our boost limit that the engine could handle, i guess not much, my engine's compression ratio for example is 7.30:1 (1300cc, F) when in good condition, so how much the safe ration i could add to it with the turbo????????
deos anybody know????????
thank's man for replying...

If you plan on doing a carburated turbo motor go for the blow through. It might cost a bit more (modify the carbs), but i believe its a lot safer and more effective, since you dont have the air/fuel mixture going into the turbo which gets extremely hot...

Personally for my next motor im planning on big cc's and a turbo with efi...

Chris

u r right man, i heared too that the blow-through is more efective, but why is the most aircooled engines contains a draw-through turbos???, and if u suggest a blow, is it safe to my engine and what mod in the carb. i should do(details plz), plz tell me what to do, cuz i need a safe install for a daily rider and a as i said before that i want this to be as a project, i mean more power with resonable mpg for daily riding...plz guys i need ur help as i should ask u experts here...
god bless,
thank's...

keep it simple and do a drawthough. if u want the benefits of blow through, go all the way and do EFI.

carb modifications are : different gaskets and different o-rings at the butterfly shafts in order to handle the pressure. appart from that you should get some bigger jets for your carbs to match the required fuel levels when under boost (otherwise your engine will run lean and start detonating...).

if i remeber correctly the carb turbo kit is available from cb performance.

Also look for a small turbo (small>nil lag thus better drivability for a daily driver) with an integrated wastegate (most OEM applications> easier to find and cheaper) and a seperate blow-off valve (that will protect your carbs and your engine from excecive boost pressures)


Chris

really thank's guys for this info,...
i found that i have to buy an electric fuel pump with a regulator, and fit the oil supply hose in the place of the pump, but my question is what pressure should i set the regulator to work with me...
thank's...

Interesting question and actually i dont have a clue... :p

One way to find out is to calulate how much fuel your jets can flow, along with the fuel requirement under boost and then find out the needed fuel pressure... If i remeber correctly weber 40 work at 2.5-3.0 bar in NA mode, so i wouldnt be impressed if your engine will require something like 6-7 bar (do not take it for granted plz and make your calcs or ask someone that has done it before or sells kits).

Chris

so is there any recommended regulator type, or any will do the work????
i mean is there any type have the desired adjustin-range u should recommend me by????

Cb Performance has a few pressure regulators... http://www.cbperformance.com

also check Holley
http://www.holley.com/data/Catalogs/Fuel%20Pumps.pdf

Its a very interesting article along with the fuel pump catalog

Chris

thank's guys, really thank's Chris, u really helped me alot improving my ideas...
i'll keep u informed with any further steps...
Michael...

So your turboing a 1300? You'll want forged pistons, and by the way it's a magnesium alloy case which is even weaker then a aluminum case. You won't be able to get too much boost out of stock motor unless you go through it. After everything is said and done you would be better off with a built NA type 1 motor.

i'm not a specialist but the manual said that the 1300(44hp) code "F" engines has alumanium cases and the pistons is the same material as the 1500 engines, it's called a "steel strut alumanium alloy", i don't know this material is good or week but anyway i will never exceeds the 4 psi of boost(maybe less) and if my engine will give a gain of 30hp more or even less, i will be glad for that, cuz it's a daily driver after all ;-) , my other project is to buy a 1600cc engine(i don't like large disp. cuz i think more power from small disp. is the real performance) on my other 71 bug(need a full restoration) and installs a bigger boost range with forged pistons and c/w crank and everything it takes when i got some money in spare(i wish)....
but now my idea is to build a "street car" with minor modifications producing the best power it could safely gives, i took it as a chalenge ;-)...
thank's...

Fabbing a turbo setup will cost more then buying a good used 1600. I have built a couple of 1641 screamers, but there is no replacement for displacement.

hey guys,
how about a blow-thru with an actuator that will sense the on-boost(+) only and do the fuel change...

Michael

Turbo a 1300 eh... cool!

Have a read here
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/v....php?tid=46399

Similar thing, with some good recommendations.

"no replacement for displacement" Thats a very old skool, simplistic way of looking at things. Sure turbo charging things by the book would cost more than building a budget 1641, but if it was done by the book it would probably blow the 1641 away!

A fellow by the name of Ian Swinkles built a turbo 1641 that put out 165hp.
http://www.cairns.net.au/~vwturbo/index.htm

Good luck, and have fun
Cheers
Jeremy

blow is away too difficult for me as my car is carburated and it need huge modifications that i will never find someone here in egypt could help me building it and fine-tune it the way it should.
someone was talking with me about building my own "actuator"(that will sense the on-boost(+) only and do the fuel change), so i'm intrested in this part now, any ideas??????????
as u adviced me guys all this setup will be in my new 1600(AS) rebuild engine,, and i will just add some mild-jump parts in my old 1300 like a 1.25 rockers with dual spring set and choromly push rods, 1.5" exhaust 4in1 header, single weber(40 or 32/36 progressive) and maybe an ignitor2 points with a msd6 cdi(when i got more extra money), i've been told that all this parts together will add about 35% of my stock 40HP...
thanks

Michael

Astromic.

Maybe I can help you, dont know it its too late. We have a lot of experience with turbos in Brazil.

Let me just tell you what I think and learned through the years.

Blow through - forget the other way, people used draw systems in the past because of fuel starvation, not a problem with todays pumps/regulators.

The modifications you need on a Weber 40 are minimal, and include the use of a larger float needle (300 or 3mm is needed for roughly 300hp on gasoline) and the elimination of the manual accelerator (you remove the whole system and block it off with a little aluminum plate) that's it.

You will need a pressure dependant fuel regulator (one that will rise fuel pressure along with the rise in boost).

You need low CR (I would keep it at 7, or closest to that) and maximum total advance of 24 degrees (depending on the amount of heat you get where you live).

As for the pump, you need a high pressure pump (say 45psi minimum) or in other words a fuel injection pump that flows about 3 or 4 liters per minute.

Maximum boost depends on the engine you have as well as the size of turbo (compressor housing and wheel) but on a small turbo in a stock engine for starters, you would probably be safe to about 15 psi, everything being correct maybe 20 or 25 (we've ran 30 psi on a stock alcohol fed 1600 with dual 44, good for 300whp!!).

Rule of thumb, up to 5 psi even if everything is wrong you are still safe, 10psi is very forgiving, highr boost pressure is when you really start to need to know what you are doing not to start loosing pieces (again this is depending on turbo size since 5psi of boost from a 62mm wheel on a .70A/R compressor is a lot more air than a 42mm wheel on a .42A/R compressor running the same 5psi).

Anyhow, if I can help you further, let me know, I'll walk you through the carb/pump/regulator setup if you wish.

Best regards to all.

thank's a lot for ur advice, and sorry for the late reply; as i was v-busy at work, then had a good time researching the blow-thru setup...
as u said i'm flattered about this system reliabilty and drivability as well as it's fuel economy, safety on a fine-tuned engine and it's longevity...
i found that cbperformance.com sells a "big-pocket" efi complete system contains everything i need from headers to injectors, it's a plug-simpletune-play good system, but as a i said it's a money issue(costs almost 3,000$$), and it will cost me around 18,000LE in local currency(shipping is more because the ppl who works in customs and post offices here will never know what the turbo is and consider it as an "essential main part" and the fees could go up to 300%, and maybe they will consider it as illigal part), so my second best option is to travel and make the deal and come with the kit in my bags :( ...
any way i'll do more research on building my own blow-thru system, i think a header is easy and the turbo i could take it from a volvo T3 and rebuild it with new seals, convert to efi w/ center-mounted throttle body and 2 injectors or 4 in a 2 thr bodies, a simple ecu to manage all and a good 009 with 22-25 degrees max advance, a map sensor, a used bov or import it from outside,,,
the case will need drilling for full-flow filter and cooler feeding the compressor too or buy this simple in-out oil pump feeding the oil pass from filter to turbo housing w/o drills,...
i could add a forged pistons/barrels kit in the engine rebuild before that, but i'm still researching on the air/fuel - advance curve and looking on a easy to program ecu to handle the job,,,
i still researching and i need a good book explaining the details, do u know any recommended book wich could help?????
thnx...

come on pros, there must be someone knows te answer,,,
please, i'm in middle of planning :-(

Michael

here's another good question
i have a k03 and a k26 which would be better for a low boost 1600 draw setup.

i've heard k26 but i would think the smaller k03 would be better suited to a stock 1600.

1500sbr


what did you say brazilians use for EFI again?

fuel tech i think?


any more details on it?

I've heard good stuff about a book called Turbomania (http://www.bevenyoung.com.au/prdt1576.htm ), it's a few years old but it seems to a good source of info on turbocharging the VW engine.

Cheers Daniel

imo the best books on engine tuning are Haynes':

1. Four-Stroke Performance Tuning (ISBN 1 85960 435 8)
and
2. Forced Induction Performance Tuning (ISBN 1 85960 691 1)

Both are written by A. Graham Bell.

IMO read the 1st on first, cos it explains in great detail every aspect of a 4 stroke tuned engine, and i believe the 2nd one is like an expansion of the 1st...

1st covers
Cyl heads, Carburation, EFI, Exhausts, Cams& Valve train, Cranks (the whole Bottom end package), Ignition, Lubrication and Cooling and Power Measurement and Tuning

2nd covers
the first 4 chapters are on the history of forced induction, FI principles, turbocharger Knowledge, boost control, anti lag, Blowers and the same chapters, Charge air cooling, Fuel systems, Nitrous Oxide systems, exhaust systems, combustion/ Ignition management, Lubrication, Cooling, and about 5-6 more chapters...

Hope that helps

Chris