Engine combo... need some advice please
 

Ok, still in the research phase of my engine build for my 1303 (daily driving, Auto-X racing). I only have a $1500 budget to work from for parts (long block, exaust and carbs).

This is what i have came up with so far...

-94mm P/C
-69mm C/W crank (is cast going to be fine for under 5000 rpm?)
-Eagle w-120 cam (or like it from Scat)
-40mm/35.5mm heads from CIP-1 (s.s. valves)
-Weber 40mm IDA dual carbs (or would 44mm be better?)
-Exaust is still up in the air, what should i look for?

I was thinking about geting the Scat Engine kit that includes, P/C, C/W crank, cam (20, 25, 30, 35 scat grind option), HD oil pump, lifters, bearings, gasket kit, coneting rods. and then geting the other little things i need like push rods and tubes, full flow parts, intake and exaust... the Scat kit i have seen for $520 bucks online.

I calculated it out and it came to be around 1,300-1,400 bucks with including carbs.

Any ways, what should i get for push rods, full flow parts. What kind of comp should i run (how can i get a desired comp any ways?)?

This is my first engine build, i need all the help i can get! :D

Thanks!
Jonathan

Don't forget about the labor costs of having your case and heads machined for the larger cylinders and special tools for engine assembly.

Yeah, i know... im forced to have my case bored and taped for full flow at Rymco down in california. Localy no one can do this kind of work (well at least no one knows VW's)

I'm not sure, but I think that the Scat kit uses a cast crank.

fast70

I think is does aswell, is there any thing wrong with a cast crank? is the stock crank cast?

The stock crank is forged, because when Ferdinand was designing the engine they found that the cast cranks had the fault of snapping after spirited use. Therefore, since you said you want to use your car for Auto-X, I would stay away from the cast crank and buy a forged. From what I hear, CB Performance now makes 76mm forged cranks for the same cost as a 69mm. So for maximum displacement on a budget that is what I would go with.

fast70

I think the stock crank is forged. The scat cast crank is supposed to be good for 5,500 rpm and 125hp.

What is the biggest stroke crank you can run without clearancing the case???

So is it SAFE to use a cast crank? i dont plan to go past 5500 rpm, but im sure i will have damn near 120hp once done

I think its the stock 69mm

The biggest without clearancing is 76mm although a 78 will fit with just minor clearancing. The stock crank is forged. To be safe, if you are comming anywhere near the HP threshold number, I would go with forged. It is cheap insurance. I have a friend who made the mistake of buying a cast crank and has had to have the crank turned down twice with only a couple thousand miles on the motor. So even though it is not that expensive to have turned:
1. It weakens the crank even farther
2. By the time the cost of the crank and cutting are added you have exceeded the cost of a forged crank.
3. Each time they need to be cut, the motor has to be torn down and new oversize bearings bought. So factor in the cost of a couple of sets of bearings.
4. You are taking unneccessary chances and stretching the rubber band to save a few bucks.

fast70

You can run up to a 76 crank without doing anything to the case, but the rods will need a little clearancing where the bolts are...or is that a 74???.... :confused: ... i know a 74 will fit for sure.... :o


I would stay away form a cast crank like the plauge, but that's my opinion.
Its just extra insurance knowing the heart of your well balanced engine wont snap if you wanted to have a little fun.


Maybe wait a while till you can get a Scat Volkstroker 2 kits, (that cast crank is the volkstroker 3 kit)

These are more expensive but, well, in the end you have a more reliable crank....you got what you paid for.

For the VS 2 kit and full flow parts and pushrods, etc, etc...go to aircooled.net

They have a full-flow kit, with modified and blue-printed pump and everything you need for I think $130. Also, if you get your carbs here, they help you set them up with the right jets and stuff. Check it out....

I wanst aware that CBP was selling their 76 cranks for the same price as a 69....i'll have to check that out...I havent bought my new crank yet soo....

I totaly agree with you Fast70, it would be wise to invest in a strong backbone i guess. I just wasent to sure on the cast VS forged debate. but it makes sence to use the better product.
So spent a few hours looking around for parts, and there prices. i came up with a CB performance chromolly forged crank, its $189 bucks :S but its the cheapest i could find from a good name. it seams to have counter weight on it... but does not list that it is (well non of CB cranks say they are... so they all must be c/w considering they have counter weights in the pics :P)

For the full flow i looked at the CB "Maxi-5" oil pump. it has a Full flow outlet on its cover. After geting the pump with outlet, and the remote filter adaptor... what else is needed to complete the system (like what hoses, fittings work, and are not expensive)

Thanks!
Jonathan

I was told that CB Performance was going to offer either a 74mm or 76mm for the cost of the 69mm. I don't know if the website has been updated yet. This is what I was told by someone who has been in contact with them.

CB's cranks are counterweighted. They are really nice. I am using a 82mm super race crank and the 5.5in Super race rods. It looks solid with those H-beams on there.

Super VW, don't forget the old saying, no replacement for displacement. Don't be afraid to get a crank larger than 69mm. Clearancing is not difficult at all, just take your time. For just a little more money your fun can be increased many times over.

Just my 2 cents,
fast70

I agree totally with fast70...

I'n my opinion, the ultimate street setup would be a 78 crank with 90.5B pistons. 2007cc


That piled with some dual 40idfs, and a quality merged exhaust, you have and great RELIABLE type 1 motor.


And then there's they Type 4 motor.....:D

Yeah, the site has been updated as they have a stroker crank at the same price as the 69mm.

I cant budge my budget (hey it rhymes) for a stroker... When i have the money later i want to build a type-4 or a wicked insane type-1 and that will likely be a stroker. Gotta remember im still in high school (last year... Hell yeah!) so i cant work as much as i want, to get the money i need for this addictnig lifestyle/hobby of Aircooled VW's :D

Hmmm....you know....I knew a guy that bought a used motor and it lasted 3 years...it was a bone stock 1600, but 3 years is great for a used $300 turn-key!


Maybe this would be an option, while you wait to get what you REALLY want???

I'm only saying this cuz your going to want more power....I promise you will......:)

I just hope you don't beat yourself up later for not going stroker. Theres nothing like stroker and theres nothing like turbo, so I did both! :D

I origionally had a modest budget like yours, but I went ahead and splurged under the advice of my engine builder and had a complete turbo 2110 for $2000. I have not yet regreted this. It only took me one more paycheck, but it will supply me with much more fun. I was origionally going to go type 4 turbo, but my engine builder convinced me otherwise as just to build a motor of the same displacement cost much more and the horsepower just wouldn't be close to what I wanted (250-300hp). Although this newfound horsepower did force me to buy a new tranny just to be safe so that did tag on extra cost. However, by doing the work yourself of finding someone to help you out, you can build a performance motor for cheap without skimping on the parts.

fast70

Thats crap advice Eurolook! (im just playin BTW)
I need an engine soon, i want to have over 100hp... and i need it cheap.
AND where else am i going to get hands on experience building if i dont build this now :D?

Yeah i know i WILL want more power... but there is always other times to build biger and better things. for now a 1915 is good. i do have the rest of the car to restore to ya know :P.

My father works at the Porsche, VW, Audi and BMW dealership here in Bend, Oregon and there are a few VW geeks there (Aircooled yes) so i can get help from them... one of the guys was in Hot VW's for his drag car. and an other is building a 2000+cc stroker as we speak. he also built a 1776 that i got to ride in with... he builds nice motors, it had plenty of power for me. so a 1915 will be nice :P

I know, I'm in the same spot as you.....I've got a used case, but havent got it align-bored or tapped for F/F yet. I plan to build a 85.5X76. I bought OEM german 85.5s, and well, It seems as though CBP is making torque a little cheaper,(a welded 69 cost $150 on their site, so if a 76 is the same then thats where its at!!)....It just has to be done in the next few weeks, or I'll be riding my bike to school!

Build it now why you are in high school and still have the time and resources to do it. Without going with some form of stroker, which I think that 76mm is a good bet for you, you will be pushing it to break 100hp with a 69mm crank. Most HP figures you see for motors are flywheel horspower not wheel horsepower because wheel horsepower takes into account a 15% drivetrain loss. There are many strokers that are just getting to 130 HP.

Check out http://www.cal-look.com/tech/2007_vs_2165.shtml that should help you decide. And even he wasn't quite satisfied with the power so imagine how you will feel. Personally, the only way I would go under 2 liters is if it were turboed.

fast70

The CBPerfromance site has the 76 crank for $350....and the 69 c/w is $150....am I missing something??

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1185

Where is there $150 69mm crank?

69 crank
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=148

76 crank
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=153



Weird, i couldnt find the link you sent while surfing their site???

I couldn't find that link either, I'm glad you did SuperVW.

fast70

Weird, i just searched "crank" and it was in one of the lists :)
I guess i did see the $150 one, but wasent to sure on it as its not stated as a cast or forged, and its welded.

Oh, btw i was looking on CB's site and they do in house machineing, and they are a little cheaper (15 bucks cheaper) on case boring compaired to Rimco.
Any one have a say on there work? and turn around time?

I think i will send my case to them as i should be buying other stuf from them any how, maybe i can save on shipping if they can ship more at once?

Also, would it be best to pick up a set of there Uni-Tech Con/rods or have my stock rods reworked? If i could save money here, that would help a bit.
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1179

From what I hear they are good rods.

fast70

Worth it over stock rebuilt rods ya think?

I'm not familiar with the Uni-techs, but I know some refurb stock rods are a proven formula, they work well...


A set of after market rods that are said to be great quality, SCAT I and H beam series rods.


The I-beams can be had for I thik its $150, over at aircooled.net, the H-beam are more expensive...can remember the price.

Just throwing Ideas at ya....I'm sure you are certain on the 1914 combo you spoke of before, and one that would be reliable, and still a bit fun....

keep your compression rate on the light end, i wouldnt go higher than 8.5:1. And you would want to run high octane gas of course. Thats not saying you CANT go over 8.5:1, but the higher you go, the hotter your heads get, the more revs you turn, and over all more wear you put on the entire engine. but in time it wont last long....that compared to a lower CR.

Bigger valves will help greatly, the 40X35.5s would be a great choice, and with a dremel tool, you could lightly de-purr the ports (and match them to your manifolds), and give it a mild polish too...and save yourself hundreds. I havent flycut heads before, so I cant say much their, but there are shops around that could give you a 3-angle valve job, flycut (this gets you to the desired CR), and bored out for 94s, for less than $200-300....but those prices are just what I'm GUESSING that would all cost!!

Jezz, I'm rambling on and on....

Hope this helps! :D

ever need more help, e-mail me!
eurolook71@hotmail.com

I have been thinking a little and looking around. like you guys said, doing a 76mm crank would be better for torq.. and i want torq for sure!

If i was to get a 76mm crank (same price as the 69mm) what other things will i need to modify to allow a different stroke? im talking ANY clearancing. will i need to change the specs of the rods, pistons/cylinders?
What would a 76mm stroke, and a 90.5mm p/c set be for displament? as sounds like a good combo for torq, HP and a longer cooler life?

Thanks
Jonathan

I have a budget beater T1 engine going together right now. Most of the parts are used but not very much. I got a set of old school Cima 94 p/c's, oil pump, solid shaft rockers push rod tubes and 6 cut push rods(clue #1), 2 Scat cams and a good AH case (stock) from a friend for $200 all where very lightly used. Also scored a pair of lightly used S/E heads (big valves) for $275 and a full 45 Dellorto set-up(dual) with rebuild kits at a swap meet for $200, 1 3/4 merged S&S with a ceramic coated MangaFlow fat boy $200, Mallory dist. for $30, traded for a new Kennedy press plate and disc, etc, etc. I have bought a new cam and lifters(Web Cam) and will have about $1000 in a 2275. I have just taken my time and collected stuff as I find it.

you da' man Dave :D

Do delloroto 40mm DRLA carbs bolt right up to Wber IDF maifolds, and use the same hex linkage?

That set of dells on ebay for under 200 sounds like my ticket if i can use weber maifolds and linkage.

Later
Jonathan

as far as i know they do. and that guy is also offering those carbs pre jetted for you. man i'd swap my spare shot block for a pair of those. :(

Dude is that ebay guy the alfa71 or whatever? if so Make the buy now! He kicks ***. I got carbs from him. Thyere the cool euro models with the cable pull enrichment circuits. I bought a weber linkage kit from ebay for $100 and it was basically everything but the carbs. I used a weber 40mm kit for my dellorto 36mms. it works perfect. no problems with dell compatibility whatsoever.

YES! SO... so are his carbs clean?

Yup! no corrosion or anything . they run so smooth with such good response its amazing. Get two gasket kits too. he sells them also. he's like the dellorto god of europe or something. I even used the gaskets that came with em. they looked like 10,000 mile carbs.

Does he always have carbs for sale. I'm not ready for carburetors yet. :(
But I don't want to miss a good thing.