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-   -   Question - Rear coilovers - on a type 3... (https://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9536)

Angelo Amato June 17th 2008 03:48

Question - Rear coilovers - on a type 3...
 
As per my other thread (brake bias), I now finally have my Fastback on the road and got a few issues to iron out.

Suspension:-

I'm running coilovers (spax adjustables) from and rear with uniballs.

The ride quality is greatly improved over torsion bars, but I have driven about 200 miles now and have a bit of an issue....

The geometry of the suspension/steering has all been done (albeit by me!) with proper equipment and I'm quite happy it is correct.

When driving the car I get a bit of wander of a better word, I've messed with toe in front and rear, shock stiffness, removed anti-roll bars, but nothing improves the 'wander'.

Not describing it well I know! but I cannot think of anything else it may be. I am going to have it laser tracked to ensure my geometry is OK, but I have a theory......

The rear of a Type 3 (some of you may know!) is on a subframe bolted to the chassis via 5 rubber donut mounts/bolts. I am thinking it is flexing on these mounts and causing an 'articulation' of the rear end, as the coilovers are now supporting the weight of the car in a different place.

I've been waiting for this forum to get back online as this is the only place where my problem may be understood! :o

Thanks, Angelo

ricola June 17th 2008 07:41

My knowledge of type 3's is a bit limited, but could it be something to do with the replacement locating bars at the front holding the trailing arms in the beam having some extra slack? Did you use urethane bushings there?

Angelo Amato June 17th 2008 09:01

is it just you and me on this fourm? :D

yes you're right i have the bars up front eliminating the torsion bars.

NO no urethane bushes up front just needle bearings. there is no slack there, they way it drives, feels like it coming from the rear.

got a set of solid rear mounts on order for the rear subframe now so that'll be the next try.

cheers, Angelo

ricola June 17th 2008 11:29

Subframe mounts sounds like a good idea. Have you played with tyre pressures?
Rich
PS think it must be the fact we are in the same time zone!

split_trix June 18th 2008 05:22

I've only just found out that the forum up again ....

anyway, back to the question... I played around with a few coilover setups on my bug with 944 springplates and covers, no torsion bars just held in place by urethene bushes.. i was told by an MOT station that you would get toe in and out when the bushes warm up and that would create the rear wondering across the road...

this may not be your question as you say you've got uniballs, i would say its likely to be the rear wheels not pointing in the right direction...

out of interest what uniballs are you using ?

chris

Angelo Amato June 18th 2008 06:11

uni balls
 
Hi Chris,

great to be back on here isn't it ! on here we can post without being critisised for trying out new stuff !

my setup is this :-

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/angeloamato/pics/red91.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/angeloamato/pics/red92.jpg

I approached Red9Design to develop a setup for the type 3, there is definitley no flex on the uniballs - they have a nice thick welded boss behind the cover and then also sit in new donut rubbers.

I HAVE JUST RECEIVED MY SOILD MOUNT KIT FOR THE REAR SUBFRAME (not poly but NYLATRON!, VERY NICE QUALITY BUT NOT CHEAP (BUT WHAT IS!) WILL TRY AND GET THEM INSTALLED AND REPORT RESULTS!

Angelo Amato June 18th 2008 06:12

Did tyres pressures first thing I did, made some difference as they are 205/40/17's on 7.5 inch rims.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricola (Post 65824)
Subframe mounts sounds like a good idea. Have you played with tyre pressures?
Rich
PS think it must be the fact we are in the same time zone!


Angelo Amato July 14th 2008 11:29

Update....
 
have finally fitted the solid mounts to the rear subframe, had to pull the motor but not the 'box (needed to do a flywheel oil seal anyway).

finished assembling it on Saturday and took it for a short run.

I still believe i have my underlying problem (this wander business) but think it has reduced (but i thought that before with each tweak i did!)

For the record, for anyone building a hi-po/handling beast Type 3, changing these rear sub mounts is a must i reckon, the stock ones were in great condition but are very soft. I know there is a couple of guys doing coilovers on their type 3's so worth considering.

As for me.... well back to the drawing board, think i'll start looking at the front setup.:eekno:

Angelo

typ4boy July 14th 2008 16:23

hi angelo.....
may be the front is to stiff with coil overs and torsion bars????????

Angelo Amato July 14th 2008 17:05

front
 
hi lee,

no t/b's up front but solid bars with bearings on end.

it has got 250 lb springs up front cos of the weight of the car, but i think that the un-natural angle of the front shocks (to clear the trailing arms) required a heavier spring that would really be needed.

...keep coming with ideas - i gotta cure this baby! :D

typ4boy July 14th 2008 17:14

first off get it laser aligned.
fast type 3,s are skitish if you ask me , my notch feels to light on the front, but dont wander.

Angelo Amato July 14th 2008 17:24

cheers lee was next on the list.

'fast' type 3's - I'm like 'driving Miss Daisy' ! :lmao:

Clatter July 31st 2008 21:51

When i put wide, low-profile tires on my car it really shocked me how much it wanted to follow the two grooves, or tracks on the road.

Maybe that's it?

Maybe try unhooking the rear sway?
That can make it kind of 'twitchy' wanting to wander...

Where did you get your Nylatron rear mounts?
Gotta get a set of those...

Angelo Amato August 1st 2008 18:38

handling...
 
hi Clatter,

i have run wide tyres on the car before on 16 and 17" rims, not been a problem.

BUT this time around i fitted TOYO T1R's (V shaped pattern) - not sure if they just do not agree with the car.

Not done any runs in it, just did one and thought it was slightly improved with the soild rear mounts.

the Nylatron mounts I got from type3detectives here in the UK, says because of the cost they will not be getting any more after this batch.

Sway bars are the first thing I took back off the car when trying to sort out the handling issues.

Cheers,

Angelo

kai4130 August 6th 2008 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelo Amato (Post 66657)

The Nylatron mounts I got from type3detectives here in the UK, says because of the cost they will not be getting any more after this batch.

Thats a shame cause they are nice bits of kits. I think I got one of the first set of these from them.

I must admit that I wasn't surprised that they forget to mention that you'll need extended bolts for the sub frame and that they lower that front mounting plate by 15MM.

Did you find this Angelo?


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